FBI Admits To Using Hacker Tools

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The FBI says that it has used zero-day exploits....but only to investigate crimes. Seems legit. :rolleyes:

The agency confirmed to The Washington Post on Wednesday that FBI agents use special hacking code to take advantage of known holes in software and further their investigations. They'll continue using these so-called zero-day exploits, but now there could be further scrutiny of the practice.
 
I don't see any problems with it. I mean, tools are just tools. What next, they'll admit they have guns?
 
pothb said:
I don't see any problems with it. I mean, tools are just tools. What next, they'll admit they have guns?
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I suppose the question is what the net impact is. If criminals are using these same exploits the FBI could be doing more harm than good by keeping them secret.
 
Isn't illegal if I were to use zero day exploits to hack into peoples shit? So breaking the law to catch people breaking the law? Might over right.
 
Depending on who they are going after and how "right" it seems to use the exploit, I could be fine with that.

Lets say somebody has videos up of them raping small children. site has a flaw that can allow the fbi to gain access and find the person running the site and arrest them. Is that wrong of them to do?

Suspected terrorist can be stopped using flaw in computer. Is that wrong of them to take advantage of that and stop an attack?

That said I can see how this can very easily be used in very many cases where it shouldn't be.
 
It seems like this would still mostly come down to a fourth amendment and interpenetration issue (or the equivalent for other countries) as it pertains to digital property.

Kicking down a door and breaking and entering is illegal but law enforcement can legally do so provided certain criteria are met.

Hacking in order to break through software security would be the similar analogy.

The other consideration though, which has been touched upon, is whether or not law enforcement should be disclosing vulnerabilities as part of their mandate.
 
The FBI has like a billion percent higher chance of doing something useful with those kinda tools. It's not like hackers that make them for nefarious reasons are gonna go out and do good with them unless they're they idealistic white hat types anyway. Besides that, like even I've used "hacker tools" for IT security junk at my job before. It's just software and no different than using like a buncha Linux libraries that someone else coded. *shrug* Whatever.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
The FBI has like a billion percent higher chance of doing something useful with those kinda tools. It's not like hackers that make them for nefarious reasons are gonna go out and do good with them unless they're they idealistic white hat types anyway. Besides that, like even I've used "hacker tools" for IT security junk at my job before. It's just software and no different than using like a buncha Linux libraries that someone else coded. *shrug* Whatever.
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Well, then. IF there is a billion percent chance of law enforcement being right, and doing right, then we don't even need courts or laws, do we?
 
Lith1um said:
Well, then. IF there is a billion percent chance of law enforcement being right, and doing right, then we don't even need courts or laws, do we?
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Yes, of course we do. Courts take care of a wide variety of non-overlapping responsibilities that law enforcement types aren't responsible for doing. I'm not at all claiming there isn't corruption in law enforcement or court systems. Any system in which people are involved will have the potential for corruption. That's one of the justifications for dividing responsibility between different organizations...you know, basic government stuff we learn about as little CreepyNephewGoogles in school. People are always gonna do selfish stuff and there are a few rotten eggs. Lots of them have nefarious motives even if they are doing the right thing too. However, the overall system is pretty good given the super daunting task placed before it so I'm okay with the occasional scandal and a few problems in it. None of them are a good enough reason to get upset about it and throw it all away since we'd just end up with the same sort of junk under different names. People suck no matter what context they're put in and they're gonna be awful to one another no matter how you organize things.
 
So we don't need a Constitution, we can just trust the government. They won't do the right thing all the time, to hell with the people they fuck over. Gotta' break a few eggs to make an omelet.
 
Nope, not having this argument. It won't make any difference to you or me that we go exploring this topic. Sooo...you win. However you feel about things is okay with me.
 
Lith1um said:
A warrant is a tool. And it's not difficult to get one.
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You don't know that they aren't getting warrants based on the article. The article is all "wow zero day exploit" and no actual information.
 
limitedaccess said:
It seems like this would still mostly come down to a fourth amendment and interpenetration issue (or the equivalent for other countries) as it pertains to digital property.

Kicking down a door and breaking and entering is illegal but law enforcement can legally do so provided certain criteria are met.

Hacking in order to break through software security would be the similar analogy.

The other consideration though, which has been touched upon, is whether or not law enforcement should be disclosing vulnerabilities as part of their mandate.
Click to expand...

+1

Hacking into someones property is no different than unlocking their door and walking in. Doesn't matter what way you do it, well maybe its gets dicey when/since you can invite law enforcement in and what ever they "see" can be used (but they supposedly can't "snoop"). Or what they can see through your window?

Would a zero day be considered a windows? I don't think so, that is like saying you can bypass a lock just by inserting a screwdriver and wiggle... it would be considered B&E imo.

meh many times I just don't see how "special" or different these circumstances are... Government reading our email? Can they open and read our physical mail? Same thing imo, same rules should apply.
 
In addition to this they leave behind evidence at crime scenes for national tv reporters to touch.
 
Lith1um said:
Well, then. IF there is a billion percent chance of law enforcement being right, and doing right, then we don't even need courts or laws, do we?
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The comment you are referring too states that it is extremely more likely that the FBI using the tools will be used for something good compared to the people that originally designed and used the tools. I can't disagree with that myself. Not that they are perfect, never do wrong and are outside of the law.

This actually goes for a lot of tools that police / law enforcement have.

Police have the tools to "break" into a car if you lock your keys in. Now a large group of people with tools like that are using them to steal cars. The police use them to help people that lock their keys in. Same can be said for lock picks in general. Which again, outside of say a locksmith. Law enforcement are probably a lot more likely to be using them for good compared to a large percentage of the people that have stuff like that.

Are you really trying to argue that the majority of people that develop took to take advantage of zero day exploits and tools to hack through security are using these tools for good and that an extremely small number of them are using them for bad?
 
In other news the US government admits they see no corruption what so ever.
 
This is what they do with YOUR money, giving high positions of power to IDIOTS who rape your rights, while collecting a large salary, benefits, paid vacation, and retirement.

This is our future. Couldn't care less about anything but their OWN power and well-being. Your safety is the LEAST of their concerns.
 
sliverjazz said:
This is what they do with YOUR money, giving high positions of power to IDIOTS who rape your rights, while collecting a large salary, benefits, paid vacation, and retirement.

This is our future. Couldn't care less about anything but their OWN power and well-being. Your safety is the LEAST of their concerns.
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Do you even know who the director of the FBI even is? According to TIME, he keeps a copy of the letter authorizing a wiretap on MLK Jr. on his desk to remind himself of the capacity for the FBI to do wrong.

At least pretend to do a little research before talking out your ass.
 
Exavior said:
The comment you are referring too states that it is extremely more likely that the FBI using the tools will be used for something good compared to the people that originally designed and used the tools. I can't disagree with that myself. Not that they are perfect, never do wrong and are outside of the law.

This actually goes for a lot of tools that police / law enforcement have.

Police have the tools to "break" into a car if you lock your keys in. Now a large group of people with tools like that are using them to steal cars. The police use them to help people that lock their keys in. Same can be said for lock picks in general. Which again, outside of say a locksmith. Law enforcement are probably a lot more likely to be using them for good compared to a large percentage of the people that have stuff like that.

Are you really trying to argue that the majority of people that develop took to take advantage of zero day exploits and tools to hack through security are using these tools for good and that an extremely small number of them are using them for bad?
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All I'm saying is get a warrant, we are a nation of laws, and no individual American citizen has the right to relinquish, or entrust, the rights of the American populous to the government. We are here for a short time on this earth, we have a duty to preserve our rights and our privacy for future generations.
 
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