Despite Windows 10, Windows Phone Is Doomed

In a nutshell, it comes down to apps. Too many that are not available. My daughters best friend has a windows phone, and she hates that they can't "snap chat". One example of many.

Also, Microsoft touch apps are much more boxy and have a lot less snap and polish than their IOS or Android counter parts. I don't write code, but I imagine the developing environment is less fun to work in than other mobile platforms, and doesn't do anyone any favors graphically speaking. This is really what killed Blackberry in the end. Their apps were lame to look at, and looked all too often the way the web used to look on an old school palm phone.. Boxy, and crooked. People want what is graphically pleasing. They want nice aesthetics. Windows 10 looks nice, but apps still look worse than most websites looked about 10 years ago. Therein lies the main problem.
 
^I agree, apps are the main problem.

It's actually really hilarious why there aren't a lot more casual developers. I suggest anyone go to microsoft's site for the procedure to set up the development system for making apps on Windows Phone, even *just for local development*. MS seems to think it's above Apple, by making the process even more onerous than Apple's, as if there will be so many developers dying to develop apps for such an unwanted mobile OS.

By comparison, this is Android's procedure: Install Java, Install Android Studio, enable ADB debugging via developer settings on the device. Voila! You have a fully functional development environment, including being ready for testing apps on a device.
 
They don't have to do anything wrong to be in the state they're in. They're playing third fiddle to two dominant players. From a marketing perspective, we love diametrically opposed products. We like to see "Android vs Apple" headlines and have discussions along that vein. Discussing 3-4 or more operating systems has a tendency to confuse non-tech folks so they stick with the most popular choices. This, of course, leads to a problem on the smaller platforms because you can't get apps if you're seen as playing a distant third.

To be blunt, Windows could do everything right and still not entice people away from Android and Apple. Most people are just not going to take a risk and jump to Windows Phone and suffer from lack of apps.
 
pxc said:
^I agree, apps are the main problem.

It's actually really hilarious why there aren't a lot more casual developers. I suggest anyone go to microsoft's site for the procedure to set up the development system for making apps on Windows Phone, even *just for local development*. MS seems to think it's above Apple, by making the process even more onerous than Apple's, as if there will be so many developers dying to develop apps for such an unwanted mobile OS.

By comparison, this is Android's procedure: Install Java, Install Android Studio, enable ADB debugging via developer settings on the device. Voila! You have a fully functional development environment, including being ready for testing apps on a device.
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Not sure what you mean. Install Visual Studio and that's all you need to do develop Windows phone/universal apps. You need Hyper-V to run the phone emulator.
 
There simply isn't room for a third OS. Developers don't have a desire to develop for 3 different platforms. I know I don't. =|
 
Protoform-X said:
There simply isn't room for a third OS. Developers don't have a desire to develop for 3 different platforms. I know I don't. =|
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If the numbers were there then sure they'd develop for it. That's kind of the point of universal apps. Develop for Windows phone and then you can be on the PC, Xbox, Hololens in the future, etc. I think long term this will help especially if Windows tablets continue to grow, but it's no silver bullet.
 
mynamehere said:
Verizon recently tried to get me to upgrade my plan & phone. When I mentioned Windows Phones they immediately started trash talking them (viruses this, crashes that, etc.).
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It's not like it's running XP :)

Considering Windows phone is a distant 3rd, the likely hood of any real viruses is pretty remote. Kind of the way Apple used to avoid viruses - obscurity.


bildad said:
I actually like that no apps work on it. Particularly when work wants me to install apps so I can take more work home with me and I get to tell them, "Sorry I have a windows phone and it won't work on there."
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Sounds like a good reason to switch to a Windows phone :)
 
They failed to push out a quality phone to the enterprise market to supplant Blackberry before a majority of companies adopted liberal BYOD policies or just flat-out started providing iOS/Android phones. That would have allowed them to capture marketshare and then worry about the dearth of apps down the road as people were forced by their employers to use the phones.

Since they missed that opportunity, they are stuck trying to make inroads in a crowded market with a product that doesn't seem to clearly stand out in any sort of meaningful way.
 
fvbounty said:
apps, apps, apps, apps, apps............
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I see this a lot, but when you see Apple and Android, there are too many apps and most of them are pure shit that people pump out to spam you with ad's.

What it needs is "quality" apps.

On that note, what Apps is it missing?
 
MrGuvernment said:
On that note, what Apps is it missing?
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Banking apps and other types of retail engagement apps, certain social media apps, Snapchat, Periscope. There are significant things missing. Snapchat has a great 3rd party app but Snapchat shut it down.
 
as someone that owns a windows phone

fvbounty said:
apps, apps, apps, apps, apps............
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this

I have a cheap $100 windows phone, battery life is great (like 3 days) and I love the exchange integration, but if you want to do much more than that you are pretty much SOL

plus not a lot of VPN support sucks
 
I just bought a Lumia 640 for my wife. It has everything she needs which is Facebook, Whats app and Candy Crush. I got it without any contract for €100 which is a very good price for a 5 inch 720p phone. I was going for the Moto G but then I saw the 640 which was on sale and it was half the price so I got that.
 
Screw apps. Give me a phone with a full desktop Chrome browser. Reason for existence of apps per site is historically due to crappy limited mobile browser. Mobile Safari is still crappy and while mobile Chrome has improved it's still not as good as desktop Chrome and extensions.
 
fvbounty said:
apps, apps, apps, apps, apps............
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To be honest I barely use any apps on my phone. I have an Android and I use Chrome, Twitter, a weather app and that's about it. I don't see why people need apps for everything like banking and whatever when you can just use the web browser and use it like a PC and go to the website. Pretty much anything an app can do I can do in Chrome.

I bet I would be fine with a Windows phone. I am just used to Android.
 
dagas said:
To be honest I barely use any apps on my phone. I have an Android and I use Chrome, Twitter, a weather app and that's about it. I don't see why people need apps for everything like banking and whatever when you can just use the web browser and use it like a PC and go to the website. Pretty much anything an app can do I can do in Chrome.

I bet I would be fine with a Windows phone. I am just used to Android.
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+THIS for me too.

Only app I've downloaded is the flashlight app. Other than that I use Chrome for everything else.
 
the-one1 said:
+THIS for me too.

Only app I've downloaded is the flashlight app. Other than that I use Chrome for everything else.
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Apps tend to be faster than mobile websites. For bank apps, I only use them to find an ATM, and clicking on a Chase app is a lot faster than bringing up the page in the browser.
 
nilepez said:
Apps tend to be faster than mobile websites. For bank apps, I only use them to find an ATM, and clicking on a Chase app is a lot faster than bringing up the page in the browser.
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That's a mobile Safari issue. Browser is always faster, less resources and less battery drain. Facebook is just one of many examples why crapplets are bad compared a real universal browser.
 
Protoform-X said:
There simply isn't room for a third OS. Developers don't have a desire to develop for 3 different platforms. I know I don't. =|
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This is the problem. Windows Phone showed up with too little, too late. They'll never break into the mass market at this point because the market is just too saturated.
 
mi7chy said:
That's a mobile Safari issue. Browser is always faster, less resources and less battery drain. Facebook is just one of many examples why crapplets are bad compared a real universal browser.
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No, if I have to type chase.com to get to a website (or look for the bookmark), I could already have the app open and maybe have the location of the ATMs.

Not all apps are created equal. I'd much rather go to rotten tomatoes site than use their crappy app. Wikipedia is a wash, though if I know I want to go to that site, then it's probably faster to hit their app than go to a browser, search google and click the link. However, I generally don't know I want to go there until I've done a general search on a topic.
 
nilepez said:
No, if I have to type chase.com to get to a website (or look for the bookmark), I could already have the app open and maybe have the location of the ATMs.
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You can pin a site and launch it like an app. That's how I use my Echo App. Rather than starting the browser and navigating to the page, I just launch it directly. It essentially works like the Echo app on my iPad and Android devices.
 
griffinhart said:
You can pin a site and launch it like an app. That's how I use my Echo App. Rather than starting the browser and navigating to the page, I just launch it directly. It essentially works like the Echo app on my iPad and Android devices.
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OK. I have no problem with apps. They work, they generally are faster and the data they retrieve is typically optimized, but I'm not going to tell you you have to use them, but that is why people use them. I'll take a desktop web page over most apps, but I'll generally take an app over a mobile web site.
 
Well as Iphones are too expensive for me I bought an Acer android phone and can't say I'm impressed by android.

I did get to check out my mothers windows phone and it seems so much more intuitive and easy to use that my next phone will probably be a microsoft one.

I don't need a ton of apps, if I can call, text and check a website it's good enough for me.
 
MS doesn't have any good niche to grow or get a foot in the door. The one place they had for a bit was good value / cheap phones. Phones like the moto G quickly moved in to compete.

There are a hundred reasons not to use WP but what reason that any common consumer would care about is there to use windows phone?

They have no high device like the Samsung notes.
They have a very limited selection.
Less apps than either major player.


They need a way to turn heads even if it loses money. My opinion for a long time has been that MS could get a foot in the market by being the first player to push really hard on dockable desktop replacement phones. A surface phone with the build quality and flexibility. Maybe even a tiny keyboard. Give it a $50 -75 dock that allows it to plug into a monitor mouse and keyboard and its your only device. Make it have microsd expansion, and maybe include a hard drive option for the dock as well. This would be good enough and really easy for a lot of people to use. Much in the same way MS is breaking into the tablet market with hybrids. Other than that MS needs to just start bribing or paying major app makers to release WP versions of their apps.

The irony is that MS moves so slow I am betting Samsung or another major android phone maker will get momentum in this market before MS.

MS is just going to have to accept that breaking into the phone market needs to be a dedicated push on the magnitude it took them to break into the console market and its a do or die long term scenario, they have to do it. Because sooner or later we are going to see these dockable phone solutions take off. Phone processors are good enough for a lot of casual users now days. Over the next 2 years they should get pretty decent.
 
rudy said:
...Because sooner or later we are going to see these dockable phone solutions take off....
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Microsoft has a dockable phone with external storage support on the market right now. Check out continuum on the Lumia 950 and 950xl.
 
Get rid of the stupid tiles. It's too distracting. I prefer a minimalistic interface.


Less is more.
 
Taco said:
Marketing issue. I read somewhere Verizon snd ATT just don't want to give it them it spotlight it needs. Catch-22.
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Here's the flaw in that theory: if there was a demand for the phones, the stores would be happy to sell them. They're not going to give prominent shelf space to lame duck phones. There's no "conspiracy" against Winphone, Verizon doesn't "Hate Winphone", nor do employees get kickbacks or commission on recommending one platform over another. Its all about selling lines of service, that's what they care about. And they HATE returns.

I'd recommend forget what you "read" and actually walk into a mobile store and strike up a convo with an employee, or better yet a manager. Ask about the return rate on Windows Phone. They will tell you that most people return them within 2 weeks.

As for *why* people are returning them is ofcourse a whole other topic - signs point to lack of apps (obviously), crappy UI that only a zealot could love, that MS has no vision in mobile, no firstparty killer apps, etc.
 
I waited for the phone for months.. bought the 950 on the Friday it was released. Returned it within 24 hours. I was a long time android user although I had windows mobile phones early on. The main problem was that I was told it would be one operating system across both my surface and my phone. Nothing could be further from the truth. Two totally seperate operating systems with the same name. Many apps that are available in the surface windows store are not even remotely available on the phone. I can run msi and exe on surface, not even a remote possibility on the phone. Total waste of time and effort. and lost $35 for restocking... but most of all.. I will most likely never try windows phone again.. even though I am a microsoft windows engineer by day. Pitiful.
 
As others have mentioned, I'd see continuum along with x86 Windows phones being one of the few ways Windows phone can be relevant. Well that and better hardware for the money. They should lead the way in lower cost devices with more RAM and minimum default storage space. I'd be thrilled if I could get a decently powerful x86 phone I could put Steam on (it would be awesome to go to a friends house with my phone, a few PS4 controllers [ds4windows.com has open source drives available that support Bluetooth and wired use] so I could project some of my Steam collection to their TV). Sure, I could do it with a laptop but that's one extra thing I wouldn't need to lug around if my phone could be a small x86 machine.

I'm on a pay as you go carrier and switched a few months ago to a Lumia 640 for cheap after the rash of Android exploits I couldn't do anything about with my 4.1.2 phone that will never see another OS update. It's a decent phone and the current OS on there is not bad. Though, the Windows app market is kind of a joke with a bunch of questionable apps and big name apps missing.
 
pkuzma said:
I waited for the phone for months.. bought the 950 on the Friday it was released. Returned it within 24 hours. I was a long time android user although I had windows mobile phones early on. The main problem was that I was told it would be one operating system across both my surface and my phone. Nothing could be further from the truth. Two totally seperate operating systems with the same name. Many apps that are available in the surface windows store are not even remotely available on the phone. I can run msi and exe on surface, not even a remote possibility on the phone. Total waste of time and effort. and lost $35 for restocking... but most of all.. I will most likely never try windows phone again.. even though I am a microsoft windows engineer by day. Pitiful.
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This entire scenario is your fault. Don't complain just because you have no clue what you are purchasing.

You thought that your new ARM based smartphone was going to run x86 binaries and MSI files and you are a "Microsoft Windows Engineer"??? Hmm...:rolleyes:
 
BryanSTG said:
This entire scenario is your fault. Don't complain just because you have no clue what you are purchasing.

You thought that your new ARM based smartphone was going to run x86 binaries and MSI files and you are a "Microsoft Windows Engineer"??? Hmm...:rolleyes:
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Yada, yada, yada.......:rolleyes::D I prefer to my HTC One M8 for Windows and have no real reason to switch as long as the Windows Phone platform is around. Not only that but, I have an XBox One, XBox 360, XBox Original, Surface Pro and 2 desktop computers with Windows 10 Pro installed. I like that fact that I am integrated into a single ecosystem and that is the way it is for me.

You, go ahead, use whatever you want but understand, it does not change what I use or why. In fact, why would your constant berating and negativity make me want to use iOS or Android exactly?
 
ManofGod said:
Yada, yada, yada.......:rolleyes::D I prefer to my HTC One M8 for Windows and have no real reason to switch as long as the Windows Phone platform is around. Not only that but, I have an XBox One, XBox 360, XBox Original, Surface Pro and 2 desktop computers with Windows 10 Pro installed. I like that fact that I am integrated into a single ecosystem and that is the way it is for me.

You, go ahead, use whatever you want but understand, it does not change what I use or why. In fact, why would your constant berating and negativity make me want to use iOS or Android exactly?
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Did you just reply to the wrong post?
 
Ordeith said:
Viruses and crashing? Are you sure they didn't have it confused with Android?
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Yeah, it's not like they don't all have those issues to some extent. I get the feeling that they don't actually want to sell & support WP. That or anti-WP bias/misinformation on the reps' part.
 
Yeah its all about App quality. My older brother and his husband are Windows Phone App developers and whenever they are in for the holidays they show me these great Windows phones with great hardware and OS but the apps were just janky. We were trying to use their phone for directions and we would get the voice command right at a turn instead of the 50-100 ft warning you get with Google Maps.

If you don't achieve App parity with competitors then you're sunk.

Marketing is also a complete failure at Microsoft but until Microsoft ponies up the money to fully fund the development of some of the more popular applications on IOS and Android then Windows Phone is going to go the way of the Dodo bird.
 
That said, Apple has proven that you don't have to have a large market share to be successful.
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Agree

griffinhart said:
I think "Windows Phone" is going to be replaced by "surface phone." An x86 based phone that can use the continuum dock and become a full PC is a very compelling device, especially for a corporate environment.
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What? the iphone is so successful is because it was/is NOT Mac nor PC. even the ipad is not a Mac/PC.
 
foxnews said:
What? the iphone is so successful is because it was/is NOT Mac nor PC. even the ipad is not a Mac/PC.
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In the tablet market we've come kind of full circle on this. Certainly tablets as media consumption devices will remain the large majority of the consumer market. But there does seem to be a market on the higher end of tablets for something more flexible thus the rise of Windows hybrids. While I don't think Win32 phones would gain as much traction as Win32 tablets I think there is a niche market there and Microsoft could carve a niche similar to tablets. That's really the best shot they have to gain some market share to put them in the low double digits and that's extremely optimistic.
 
BryanSTG said:
This entire scenario is your fault. Don't complain just because you have no clue what you are purchasing.

You thought that your new ARM based smartphone was going to run x86 binaries and MSI files and you are a "Microsoft Windows Engineer"??? Hmm...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Pretty simple really.. they can't compete with ios or Android.. so they make a phone with the one operating system to rule them all... basically exactly what every one on this thread wants... the only thing I heard from Microsoft was that it had windows 10 on it.. Maybe one day they will make that true... until then... :rolleyes: @ Microsoft for their epic fail


.
 
Lol so basically what I got from that article was that the IDC thinks neither windows 10 nor their developer support will help, but awhile ago they thought Nokia acquisition would help but didn't.

Why would I believe them now?

I remain hopeful, I dig my windows phone.
 
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