Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

4saken said:
The difference being, those games were backed by massive developer/publishers who have proper project management, sprints, goals, etc. This development team has shown they only miss goals. And from the large amount of 'anecdotal' commentary out there they are not a well run dev house.
Click to expand...

You are comparing apples and oranges, those massive developers/publishers don't make it known to the general public that they are developing a game until they are far enough along to give an ETA on a retail release, usually within 2 years. You nor any other internet armchair developer has any idea when development actually started nor how many project management milestones have been missed, and that is ignoring for the moment that AAA games are routinely delayed post announcement.

The difference between publisher backed games and those that are crowd funded is that the latter entails far more transparency from the very outset of development compared to the former where there is little to no transparency.
 
Stiler said:
Wow some of you getting out that have been following from the start really lost faith thait badly?

AAA games tend to have 4-5 yr development cycles (IE fallout, GTA, Witcher, etc) and Star Citizen is only around it's 3rd.

I can see why some people decide not to announce their games or show them off too early now, so many people running screaming for the hills because of a unfounded news articles.
Click to expand...

I didn't start screaming because of the articles, I was already having second thoughts many months ago, and I had a feeling that the whole thing is just vaporware at that/this point.

Remember, they are in 3rd year and nothing to show for it, expect two buggy, crap modules.

Usually in a development cycle after 1.5-2 years there is a fully functioning core of the game. The Hangar module / arena commander module are just tacked together so they can show something, they possibly have to completely re-write them to be integrated into the game. So basically they spent 70 million and what they have to show for it is big ideas, a bunch of art, and two minigames. THAT IS IT.

And a lot of people who will get very angry eventually. Some might allow themselves to be lead on for a few years more, but they will wake up.
 
gamerk2 said:
The problem is SC is becoming bigger then most AAA games, but without the necessary budget. Throw in adding new features, and you have a Duke Nukem: Forever possibility unfolding.

I've got no skin in the game, but to an outsider, the warning lights are there.
Click to expand...

And 99% of fans are ignoring them or handwaving them away in blind faith.
 
I have also felt the project was going down the "doomed" path way before any of these stories. To restore my faith they better show something at CitizenCon that blows my balls off.
 
Blade-Runner said:
As for budgets, you are aware that most publishers spend more on marketing than the actual development of the game? Take that out of the equation and the existing budget is probably more than adequate.
Click to expand...

Completely disagree. GTA5 cost around 150 million sans marketing. I think the scope of SC has become extremely comparable to GTA5.

Now add in things like:
CR hasn't made a game in over a decade.
CR has never made a game with the scope of SC.
CR's last game ran into severe problems and had to be bailed out.
This is a completely new game with a completely new company making it (not an established studio working on their nth iteration).
Confirmed wasting of money on things like the VR helmet which was scrapped, the VR pod which is unnecessary, and the VR table which is both unnecessary and poorly implemented.
Jennison saying he was paid for 17 months to do about 4 months work, due to shitty management and other problems.
Numerous other sources saying there are big problems.

...and what do you get?

EVERYTHINGS FINE, according to some.

I have no problem with the timeline itself. With what they're trying to do it's obvious there's no way the game could be remotely close to done before the end of 2016. More likely 2017. The problem isn't really the timeline, the problem is the amount of funding the timeline will require. I don't think they have it. CR essentially admits they don't have it when he says if ship sales slow down he will reduce headcount. Guess what? Ship sales have slowed down. At most they've covered their burn rate one out of the last four months. If CR can't pump up those numbers..... Which is why SC is getting compared to a Ponzi scheme. CR needs to sell more ships to new and existing backers in order to get enough money to make the game that he already sold and was supposed to be fully funded.
 
I will hold out a while longer, I have one of the rarest ship upgrades in my account (Constellation Phoenix) that I could unload at pretty much any time. Though it is not giftable so i would probably have to just sell my account. Not that I really care to do so, I have received enough entertainment from just watching this game being made then the value of that ship upgrade. If it fails... so be it, what a hilarious ride it will be to watch. If not, we will have a pretty cool game to play.
 
Frankie said:
I have no problem with the timeline itself. With what they're trying to do it's obvious there's no way the game could be remotely close to done before the end of 2016. More likely 2017. The problem isn't really the timeline, the problem is the amount of funding the timeline will require. I don't think they have it. CR essentially admits they don't have it when he says if ship sales slow down he will reduce headcount. Guess what? Ship sales have slowed down. At most they've covered their burn rate one out of the last four months. If CR can't pump up those numbers..... Which is why SC is getting compared to a Ponzi scheme. CR needs to sell more ships to new and existing backers in order to get enough money to make the game that he already sold and was supposed to be fully funded.
Click to expand...

Assuming the burn rate is $2million per month.

And assuming the the Escapist article is right in that they only have 8mill in reserve.

That means they only need to Bring in 1.5million per month to have another 16 months of full scale production.

lets say the past 4 month average was around 1.5-1.6m which i think it was mentioned it was, and that August was when that 8mill reserve was last accurate that means they have another 13-14 months of full scale production, not accounting to ace months where they pull in $2-3million which is something they can easily do with a ship sale.

I believe June and July were slow months mainly due to no high demand ship sales they sold the star liner, which they knew was not going to sell but it was a promised ship that people voted for and demand is sort of low for a civ transport and aside from that there were no other sales in june/july.

So on the surface it appears funding has slowed but in reality it was sort of normal since there were no major sales/concepts.

Then August the Vanguard came out and they had another normal month of their usual in take. September was on the lower side since the Endeavor sale was not until the end of it. We will get an idea of their funding state with the end of October and November as those are big months for sales, and they still have not sold the Crucible which a lot of people are waiting for as well as the Dragonfly not sure if those are planned for either of those months or not or if they are saving them for Dec/Jan.

Dragonfly is a small ship so it will be in high demand as its affordable to most people and its also a CCU token for LTI.

No idea about the Crucibles size/value but it is a repair tug so it is a ship a lot of people are excited for.

All in All i would not be worried about CiG's funding model or future funding model, based on a couple slow months, and even if they only had 8million in reserve it is still plenty based on future sales projections.

They will likely clear 3-4 million this month and same next month, and likely 2+ in December with gifts and xmas purchases maybe more if they have those other ship sales.

edit-

July last year was only 1.3m as well.
 
Last edited:
Wildace said:
Assuming the burn rate is $2million per month.

And assuming the the Escapist article is right in that they only have 8mill in reserve.

That means they only need to Bring in 1.5million per month to have another 16 months of full scale production.

lets say the past 4 month average was around 1.5-1.6m which i think it was mentioned it was, and that August was when that 8mill reserve was last accurate that means they have another 13-14 months of full scale production, not accounting to ace months where they pull in $2-3million which is something they can easily do with a ship sale.

I believe June and July were slow months mainly due to no high demand ship sales they sold the star liner, which they knew was not going to sell but it was a promised ship that people voted for and demand is sort of low for a civ transport and aside from that there were no other sales in june/july.

So on the surface it appears funding has slowed but in reality it was sort of normal since there were no major sales/concepts.

Then August the Vanguard came out and they had another normal month of their usual in take. September was on the lower side since the Endeavor sale was not until the end of it. We will get an idea of their funding state with the end of October and November as those are big months for sales, and they still have not sold the Crucible which a lot of people are waiting for as well as the Dragonfly not sure if those are planned for either of those months or not or if they are saving them for Dec/Jan.

Dragonfly is a small ship so it will be in high demand as its affordable to most people and its also a CCU token for LTI.

No idea about the Crucibles size/value but it is a repair tug so it is a ship a lot of people are excited for.

All in All i would not be worried about CiG's funding model or future funding model, based on a couple slow months, and even if they only had 8million in reserve it is still plenty based on future sales projections.

They will likely clear 3-4 million this month and same next month, and likely 2+ in December with gifts and xmas purchases maybe more if they have those other ship sales.

edit-

July last year was only 1.3m as well.
Click to expand...

How many of the ships that have been sold are actually playable? (ignoring that their isn't a game to actually play them in). As in fully completed, able to walk around inside and out, and playable.
 
most of the single seat ships, aside from that they are not a priority to get in game, completing the Vanduul and UEE ships for SQ42 is the priority and their progress is unknown due to story spoilers. and no point in building out the multi crew PU ships until there is a place to use them, With the large world map 2 multi crew ships are near done for it the Retaliator and the Connie.

trading, mining exploration ships ect wont be done until there is gameplay near for them.
 
How many ships are there that have been put up for sale, and how many are actually complete and "playable?" Not that hard of a question I would think.
 
Quickest way to see what is flyable is to check Electronic Access, and then just add a glaive to the list if you don't have it unlocked.
 
RangerXML said:
And Scythe :D
Click to expand...

oh yeah i forgot i see the scythe from being a subscriber.



Edit-

No wait i think everyone sees the scythe, but subscribers now get it all the time available to fly so non subs might need to rent it?

or has that not gone into effect, i thought they were making it so Imp subs get the scythe all the time?
 
RangerXML said:
I can't see the Scythe and I'm a sub.
Click to expand...

found it.

BVEcSjf.jpg


also no idea if non subs can see it to rent.

kTZC2Ex.jpg
 
Are you an Imperator or a Centurion? I'm a Centurion and I don't see the Scythe, I was unaware of any changes. I do see the Glaive (my pretty).
 
Im an Imp, so you can't rent it as a cent?

Guess that means non subs can't rent it either.

I only sub on event months usually to throw a few bones in to help cover costs even tho i never go.

The perks don't really interest me, besides the flair being nice.

edit-

I would of assumed that now that imps get the scythe 24/7 that they would of opened the rental of it to everyone, not that its even remotely worth the 30,000 REC to rent but still lol.
 
An hour to download it, pfft its just a hangar and some ships whys it got to take so long!
 
schizrade said:
oh shit...
Click to expand...

Yeah it is pretty bloated atm, which is fine for people like me with no download caps, and Comcast seems to keep upping my internet speeds for free every few months, seems like they just sent me a letter telling me that they upped it from 25Mb/s to 50Mb/s then 2 weeks ago got another letter saying they upped the service to 75Mb/s i feel like any day now i should be expecting a letter for 100Mb/s.
 
Wildace said:
Assuming the burn rate is $2million per month.

And assuming the the Escapist article is right in that they only have 8mill in reserve.

That means they only need to Bring in 1.5million per month to have another 16 months of full scale production.

lets say the past 4 month average was around 1.5-1.6m which i think it was mentioned it was, and that August was when that 8mill reserve was last accurate that means they have another 13-14 months of full scale production, not accounting to ace months where they pull in $2-3million which is something they can easily do with a ship sale.
Click to expand...

None of that matters. The game was fully funded and several times overfunded. They should be able to stop receiving any and all money today and still deliver, but they aren't. The game should have been, if not fully finished by now, at least fully funded to be released entirely in 2016, whit any extra money coming in used for long term plans of bringing in new features and polishing existing ones. Instead, we are (if the reports are true, of course) in a situation where even the basic promised PU and single player aren't possible without bringing in millions in ship sales monthly. That is just crazy.


And don't get me started on the launcher. Have they been able to fix that shit from requiring administrator privileges finally, or is it still an insurmountable task after all these years? Or are useless things like helmet animation still a priority for CIG, instead of basic functions? Heaven forbid one of the >260 employees gets assigned to coding it right.
 
Last edited:
A friend of mine has over 2 grand in this game and keeps making excuses and trying to deny anything is wrong at CIG. The Escapist article aside, the Squadron 42 portion of the game is a year late. The projected release dates for that are well into 2016 or 2017. There seems to have been a mass exodus from CIG lately. That only happens for two reasons. 1.) No one likes working there. 2.) Employees agent getting paid which means financial trouble. Neither case is good. The first point means that people hate the environment and will have a hard time producing content. Changes in staff result in delays as people get up to speed working on the project. The second point would seem to indicate mismanagement of funds. That seems likely as a lot of time has past and all we have is a hangar full of empty ships and promises after four years of development.

If you've ever seen the show American Greed, you know this story sounds like the same investment scams profiled on the program. The only difference is people here expected a product rather than a return on their investment. Like a con, they've built up support for more investors by delivering some samples to entice people.

Whether you believe the article or not it doesn't take a genius to figure out something is wrong at CIG.
 
Dan_D said:
A friend of mine has over 2 grand in this game and keeps making excuses and trying to deny anything is wrong at CIG. The Escapist article aside, the Squadron 42 portion of the game is a year late. The projected release dates for that are well into 2016 or 2017. There seems to have been a mass exodus from CIG lately. That only happens for two reasons. 1.) No one likes working there. 2.) Employees agent getting paid which means financial trouble. Neither case is good. The first point means that people hate the environment and will have a hard time producing content. Changes in staff result in delays as people get up to speed working on the project. The second point would seem to indicate mismanagement of funds. That seems likely as a lot of time has past and all we have is a hangar full of empty ships and promises after four years of development.

If you've ever seen the show American Greed, you know this story sounds like the same investment scams profiled on the program. The only difference is people here expected a product rather than a return on their investment. Like a con, they've built up support for more investors by delivering some samples to entice people.

Whether you believe the article or not it doesn't take a genius to figure out something is wrong at CIG.
Click to expand...

Tune in this weekend, where Roberts will address any and all concerns with a resounding "It's not finished YET, but SOON..ish!" to a massive round of applause and cheers, followed by "Be sure to check out the new $600 limited edition CitizenCon spacefighter now for sale!"
 
Pringle said:
Tune in this weekend, where Roberts will address any and all concerns with a resounding "It's not finished YET, but SOON..ish!" to a massive round of applause and cheers, followed by "Be sure to check out the new $600 limited edition CitizenCon spacefighter now for sale!"
Click to expand...

I have no doubt. I also have no doubts that it will work and they will sell a crap ton on merchandise.
 
Pringle said:
Tune in this weekend, where Roberts will address any and all concerns with a resounding "It's not finished YET, but SOON..ish!" to a massive round of applause and cheers, followed by "Be sure to check out the new $600 limited edition CitizenCon spacefighter now for sale!"
Click to expand...

They are apparently announcing a new ship for sale at Citizencon, allegedly it's named the Vindicator and will sell for $175 per Twitter.
 
Meeho said:
None of that matters. The game was fully funded and several times overfunded. They should be able to stop receiving any and all money today and still deliver, but they aren't. The game should have been, if not fully finished by now, at least fully funded to be released entirely in 2016, whit any extra money coming in used for long term plans of bringing in new features and polishing existing ones. Instead, we are (if the reports are true, of course) in a situation where even the basic promised PU and single player aren't possible without bringing in millions in ship sales monthly. That is just crazy.


And don't get me started on the launcher. Have they been able to fix that shit from requiring administrator privileges finally, or is it still an insurmountable task after all these years? Or are useless things like helmet animation still a priority for CIG, instead of basic functions? Heaven forbid one of the >260 employees gets assigned to coding it right.
Click to expand...

Plus no one on the planet except Wildace thinks their burn rate is only 2 million right now. Even conservative redditor fanboys peg it at a minimum of 2.5 million and in reality it's probably 3 million plus.
 
Dan_D said:
A friend of mine has over 2 grand in this game and keeps making excuses and trying to deny anything is wrong at CIG. The Escapist article aside, the Squadron 42 portion of the game is a year late. The projected release dates for that are well into 2016 or 2017. There seems to have been a mass exodus from CIG lately. That only happens for two reasons. 1.) No one likes working there. 2.) Employees agent getting paid which means financial trouble. Neither case is good. The first point means that people hate the environment and will have a hard time producing content. Changes in staff result in delays as people get up to speed working on the project. The second point would seem to indicate mismanagement of funds. That seems likely as a lot of time has past and all we have is a hangar full of empty ships and promises after four years of development.

If you've ever seen the show American Greed, you know this story sounds like the same investment scams profiled on the program. The only difference is people here expected a product rather than a return on their investment. Like a con, they've built up support for more investors by delivering some samples to entice people.

Whether you believe the article or not it doesn't take a genius to figure out something is wrong at CIG.
Click to expand...


You missed the actual reason #3)

They reorganized what jobs were being done in what studio. A lot of people in the Austin studio were told "you can keep your job but you have to move to Santa Monica". Many people chose to stay in Austin vs. keeping their jobs in Santa Monica. It had nothing to do with not being paid or not enjoying the work for the vast majority of the recent "exodus".

But I don't want to let simple facts get in the way of a good internet riot.
 
PersonalJ said:
They are apparently announcing a new ship for sale at Citizencon, allegedly it's named the Vindicator and will sell for $175 per Twitter.
Click to expand...

HA!

The fact that they're still selling "Limited edition" ships, or any ship in general, is disturbing enough.
 
Pringle said:
HA!

The fact that they're still selling "Limited edition" ships, or any ship in general, is disturbing enough.
Click to expand...

They need to release a large piece of playable content. If not...it will be a huge blow to their legitimacy.
 
Erasmus354 said:
You missed the actual reason #3)

They reorganized what jobs were being done in what studio. A lot of people in the Austin studio were told "you can keep your job but you have to move to Santa Monica". Many people chose to stay in Austin vs. keeping their jobs in Santa Monica. It had nothing to do with not being paid or not enjoying the work for the vast majority of the recent "exodus".

But I don't want to let simple facts get in the way of a good internet riot.
Click to expand...

Well proof will be in the proverbial pudding soon I guess.
 
Meeho said:
None of that matters. The game was fully funded and several times overfunded. They should be able to stop receiving any and all money today and still deliver, but they aren't. The game should have been, if not fully finished by now, at least fully funded to be released entirely in 2016, whit any extra money coming in used for long term plans of bringing in new features and polishing existing ones. Instead, we are (if the reports are true, of course) in a situation where even the basic promised PU and single player aren't possible without bringing in millions in ship sales monthly. That is just crazy.
Click to expand...

They went full Double Fine Adventure.
Had an unexpected windfall of cash and lost perspective of what they were trying to do. Every crazy suggestion for wouldn't it be cool if... got thrown into the mix and took focus away from the modernized Wing Commander / Freelancer they promised to build.

You can go all the way back to Wingman's Hangar to see them falling off the rails. Just about every niche feature they were asked about was 'sure why not,' we've got a pile of cash, we'll cater to every 'what if' you guys come up. (I know that was just a fan show, and not directly driving development, but it was indicative of the Swiss Army Knife mentality they adopted for the game)

We're to the point they've prioritized a planet side 'social module' over Squadron 42 and the PU. I'm only in for the basic Aurora so I'm not too upset, but it's frustrating to see, not because what they have put out is disappointing, but because they seem disinterested in putting out what we bought to begin with.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top