Star Citizen Departures?

Wildace said:
The game has not been in full production for 4 years.

It took about 6-12 months to ramp up and get offices and everything in order after the kickstarter campaign, with continual ramp up even to this day. Which i believe was november 2012, if you consider the ramp up period, hiring of people moving to new offices ect, full scale production never really started until mid 2013. So you are really only looking at around 2 years of full development.

Star Citizen is not like Elite where Elite used kickstarter to foot the bill to finish an already funded project that was likely over budget and bring it to release state. Star Citizen was really nothing more than an idea of a small group of dedicated people when they started the crowed funding campaign, Kickstarter was a proof of demand concept not a help me finish the game i already have started.

If you want to get nit picky you can say production started in 2011 when they made the video demo for kickstarter but that was not part of the game nothing from that demo is used in the game, it was just a trailer to get people interested in the idea that they still needed to build a team to actually make the game.
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Wait, I was called a troll in Star Citizen thread for saying the game was never gonna hit the Nov 2014 release date, then you are telling me the game never actually started before mid 2013? What kind of ppl dwell in that thread?
 
Wildace said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the 62 square mile map of Daggerfall wasn't broken up into cells like the rest of the series.

meaning you only have to worry about the location of an item or character within a given cell, not its location on the entire map.

but also keep in mind daggerfall is only 62 square miles so at most its about 4-7x the limits of what 32bit can handle accurately and given the fidelity of the game accuracy might not be that important if it was one solid world map and not broken up into cells.

That is still a very far cry from the millions of square kilometers of of a star citizen world map.

the 62 square mile world map of daggerfall is a spec of sand in comparison.


The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion -- 16 square miles
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind -- 6 square miles
The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall -- 62 square miles

Both Morrowind and Oblivion i know for certain are broken up into cells, i never did any modding for Daggerfall to confirm that or not.

I hope you don't do any serious programming tho if you did not know there were limits to 32bit engines when it comes to precision beyond 12+ km
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I'm going to guess you've never played Daggerfall. It is not 62 square miles, it is 62,394 square miles. It was so big that you had to have a search feature on the map just to find out where your destination was. Coordinates were done using 32-bit integers, using three separate integers for X, Y, and Z coordinates. (Also, BTW, you don't need a 64-bit program to do 64-bit math; it is entirely possible to do 80-bit x87 DP in DOS).

Daggerfall is not broken up into cells like Morrowind and Oblivion; it uses a different engine (XnGine). That being said, pretty much every modern game is going to have the map broken up because otherwise you'd have shit for framerate (you really don't want the GPU to be rendering all of the non-visible portions of the map); either through cells or portal rendering or BSP or some other method.
 
Wildace said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the 62 square mile map of Daggerfall wasn't broken up into cells like the rest of the series.

meaning you only have to worry about the location of an item or character within a given cell, not its location on the entire map.

but also keep in mind daggerfall is only 62 square miles so at most its about 4-7x the limits of what 32bit can handle accurately and given the fidelity of the game accuracy might not be that important if it was one solid world map and not broken up into cells.

That is still a very far cry from the millions of square kilometers of of a star citizen world map.

the 62 square mile world map of daggerfall is a spec of sand in comparison.


The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion -- 16 square miles
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind -- 6 square miles
The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall -- 62 square miles

Both Morrowind and Oblivion i know for certain are broken up into cells, i never did any modding for Daggerfall to confirm that or not.

I hope you don't do any serious programming tho if you did not know there were limits to 32bit engines when it comes to precision beyond 12+ km
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In your quest to continually post nonsense, now you're ignoring readily available information about other games...

Oblivion is 22 square miles, not 16.
Morrowind is 9 square miles, not 6.
And as already pointed out... daggerfall is 62,394 square miles. At least you got the 62 part right, you were just off by a couple orders of magnitude. You'd probably also crap yourself if you bothered to look up the number of towns, buildings, NPCs, and so on.
 
I still think you are grasping at straws trying to compare daggerfall which is pretty low quality and procedural generated content between poi to anything modern where positional data is actually important especially in a multi player game.
 
Wildace said:
I still think you are grasping at straws trying to compare daggerfall which is pretty low quality and procedural generated content between poi to anything modern where positional data is actually important especially in a multi player game.
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Compared to what? You just pulling nonsense out of thin air? It's not as if you were off by just a couple square miles, or mixed up square miles and kilometers... you needed to multiply the BS number you gave by over 100.

No one else has had to just make up lies about something to try and convince others one way or another about Star Citizen in this thread, except for YOU.
 
Wildace said:
Um Double precision is already DONE and in Current public version of Arena Commander right now.

It is hard to say they couldn't accomplish something when they are done with it.
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Wasn't talking about Arena Commander but about the PU. Thought it was obvious but should've stated it, my bad. Arena Commander is a fishbowl.
 
doz said:
Apparently, the release date continues to be pushed further and further back. In 2013, they estimated roughly Q4 2015. We are now pushed back to 2017. And yet Wildace continues to show his support without a care in the world. Ill just leave these here:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040274993&postcount=3555
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040270474&postcount=3501
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Although he is the definition of a fanboy, you don't need to call him out like that. He might be disabled for all we know.
 
SilverSliver said:
Although he is the definition of a fanboy, you don't need to call him out like that. He might be disabled for all we know.
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Call him out? Its on a public forum. Thats #1

#2, if you are disabled and funds limited, you should not be buying into a fairy tale.
 
doz said:
Call him out? Its on a public forum. Thats #1

#2, if you are disabled and funds limited, you should not be buying into a fairy tale.
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I don't disagree at all. Attack the ideas, not the person. There are dozens of reasons why people shouldn't buy the shit Star Citizen is shoveling that don't require character call outs.
 
Tgrove said:
This is gonna end up so ugly. We all know with over 90m budget on making a game, that there would be something for the people to play by now. It doesn't even make sense anymore. Your making a game for almost 4 years and 90+ million dollars and there still is nothing to play. Yet they still churn out ships for people to buy.
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Damn straight.

He should have locked in the scope of the game when outside investor capital was no longer needed (I think that was at $21 million).

With the scope locked in, make and finish the damn game that was originally pitched to backers.

By all means he could have continued to sell ships and use the additional funds to create expanded content (aka Stretch Goals) for release in the ensuing months/years.
 
bla bla bla 64 bit bla bla bla

I wouldn't be surprised if they did little more than modify some preprocessor directives to make that change. It's not like they had to rebuild the engine for 64 bit architectures (because Crytek already did that for them, starting with the 64 bit Far Cry patch in 2005).

I think Cloud Imperium have spent all the money on renting Apple's reality distortion field.
 
I think people are making too much out of this so far. I think it is certainly fair to question what they have been doing with the money and all the delays, but to be truthful, I am not at all surprised at the length. First you are trying to compare this to a game being developed by an established publisher, with established methods and timelines and established crews. SC had none of that. You have an enthusiast trying to make a game on his own vision, which was always going to be somewhat risky and certainly was going to take a lot longer than a Triple A title from an established publisher. I think people just don't factor that in enough.

I am not saying that excuses CR for not delivering on his promises, I never expected he would be able to deliver on some of them based on the scope and the situation, but it should at least be given a little bit more cushion than people have been. I do blame CR for that though, if he hadn't made a bunch of ridiculous promises to begin with, then none of this would start blowing up the way it is now.

As for Derek Smart, he is just a tool taking advantage of the situation. He has been on a mission for decades now to try and discredit others to make himself look not as bad. It doesn't mean he doesn't have some legitimate points, but I definitely question some of his 'sources' of information.
 
Greggy_D said:
Damn straight.

He should have locked in the scope of the game when outside investor capital was no longer needed (I think that was at $21 million).

With the scope locked in, make and finish the damn game that was originally pitched to backers.

By all means he could have continued to sell ships and use the additional funds to create expanded content (aka Stretch Goals) for release in the ensuing months/years.
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Amen Brother.
This is Exactly right.
 
A lot of debate over this game that has yet to be released. Maybe those people leaving realized this and figured they rather put their energies into something else.

I'm just going to continue playing plenty of other great and well established games that I own until Star Citizen gets released.

If it doesn't get released, what do I lose?

Absolutely nothing, so why bother about other people's problems (money) when it had nothing to do with me to begin with?
 
NoOther said:
I think people are making too much out of this so far. I think it is certainly fair to question what they have been doing with the money and all the delays, but to be truthful, I am not at all surprised at the length. First you are trying to compare this to a game being developed by an established publisher, with established methods and timelines and established crews. SC had none of that. You have an enthusiast trying to make a game on his own vision, which was always going to be somewhat risky and certainly was going to take a lot longer than a Triple A title from an established publisher. I think people just don't factor that in enough.

I am not saying that excuses CR for not delivering on his promises, I never expected he would be able to deliver on some of them based on the scope and the situation, but it should at least be given a little bit more cushion than people have been. I do blame CR for that though, if he hadn't made a bunch of ridiculous promises to begin with, then none of this would start blowing up the way it is now.

As for Derek Smart, he is just a tool taking advantage of the situation. He has been on a mission for decades now to try and discredit others to make himself look not as bad. It doesn't mean he doesn't have some legitimate points, but I definitely question some of his 'sources' of information.
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I have zero problem with the timeline. The money expanded, the game expanded, the timeline expanded. Period. You can't make the game he's trying to make in 3 years. No way could it have ever possibly hit the PU in 2015, let along 2014, and I'll be surprised if it's anything other than a rudimentary alpha in 2016.

My problems:

1. CR's Vision (TM) is all well and good, but I suspect he should have restricted his Vision (TM) to something that cost more like 50 million. So that when he went 100% over budget, he could still have delivered it. As it sits now I think his vision is more likely to cost 100 million, so when he goes 100% over budget he's most likely completely boned.

2. The game is supposed to be fully funded and I don't think it is. Based on CRs statements, Derek Smarts intel, and what I've seen and know about game and MMO development and costs, I think that if funding stopped tomorrow, CR would again be completely boned. He'd be incapable of delivering anything more than a patchwork of modules, kludged together into a game, that will disappoint virtually everyone (except Wildace and a couple others).

3. Companies with FAR more MMO experience than CR have completely screwed up economies and balance. And they've done it on games that are far less problematic when it comes to the economy and balance. Question any of it and a kool aid swiller comes along and says "PCs are only 10% of the economy, NPCs are 90%, so it'll all work out" as if that revelation somehow guarantees success.

4. Hanger Status: Ready. Arena Commander Status: Ready. First Person Shooter Status: Production. PU Status: Design. What? Design? WTF? They can't even honestly say they've started producing the PU? And you see it in their posts on the forum. People ask them questions and time and again the response is "Uh, I think it might work like this in the PU." Meanwhile you get 3,000 post threads about the economy that are 100% endless hours of mutual masturbation because they've provided so little actual information, despite being years into it. All you get is shit like "There's mining! And space stations! And some kinda thing that's kinda like crafting! And resource noding! And medical ships! And pirates! And Exploration! And salvaging? And you're only 10% of the economy! And the economy is dynamic! And maybe you can name a wormhole after yourself! How does any of it work?!? Fucked if we know! You tell us! Would you like to buy a track jacket? How about a $125 plastic model of a ship you can't fly in AC yet? You can stick it up your ass and it'll make reading the economy thread a little more enjoyable!"

But virtually NOTHING about how they envision the detail of any of it actually working. Virtually no specific visions of mechanics. Just high level headline bullshit.

I punched myself in the face three times, and then went over to the official forums. The reason I punched myself in the face three times was so that, while I was reading the forums, I could look back at the face punching and remember a better time in my life.

What do I see? This guy:

Yeah I was thinking along those lines too, but it still doesn't solve the factory problem. I have agreed to deliver the goods. If the goods don't arrive, the product doesn't get made. If that happens the factory can't fulfill its order, so something else doesn't get made, and on up the chain.
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Who apparently thinks that if a truck full of tomatoes doesn't make it to Salt Lake City on time, all the Burger Kings shut down since they can't serve a Whopper without a tomato on it. And then the dildo factory shuts down, because all the guys at the dildo factory eat at BK and they don't want to work on an empty stomach. And then the porn studio shuts down, because they can't get their daily supply of dildos.

Why do you see retardation like this constantly on their forum? Because no one has a goddamn clue how anything is going to work, because CIG only has a vague notion of how anything is going to work, because the PU hasn't even started production yet.
 
Frankie said:
Why do you see retardation like this constantly on their forum? Because no one has a goddamn clue how anything is going to work, because CIG only has a vague notion of how anything is going to work, because the PU hasn't even started production yet.
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Bingo.

This is stuff that should have been worked out by now. It isn't a matter of tuning the economy by adjusting in-game currency sinks, there is no basic information about how the in-game economy works at all. The design phase should be long over for the PU.

And yes, they should have made their $20,000,000 game(or whatever the original goal was), complete it, and then expand upon the existing game with features, content, etc.

How the rabid fans of this thing act(Wildace being a perfect example) is also mindboggling. You ask them about the game, and they start writing fanfic.
 
Frankie said:
...

4. Hanger Status: Ready. Arena Commander Status: Ready. First Person Shooter Status: Production. PU Status: Design. What? Design? WTF? They can't even honestly say they've started producing the PU? And you see it in their posts on the forum. People ask them questions and time and again the response is "Uh, I think it might work like this in the PU." Meanwhile you get 3,000 post threads about the economy that are 100% endless hours of mutual masturbation because they've provided so little actual information, despite being years into it. All you get is shit like "There's mining! And space stations! And some kinda thing that's kinda like crafting! And resource noding! And medical ships! And pirates! And Exploration! And salvaging? And you're only 10% of the economy! And the economy is dynamic! And maybe you can name a wormhole after yourself! How does any of it work?!? Fucked if we know! You tell us! Would you like to buy a track jacket? How about a $125 plastic model of a ship you can't fly in AC yet? You can stick it up your ass and it'll make reading the economy thread a little more enjoyable!"
...
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I don't know you Frankie but I think we might get along IRL.
 
Merc1138 said:
And yes, they should have made their $20,000,000 game(or whatever the original goal was), complete it, and then expand upon the existing game with features, content, etc.
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I can tell you what happened. The devs saw that if they invested the 20 million dollars into reasonably playable tech demos and 3D modeling/marketing for expensive pixel ships that they could eventually see in these tech demos - they could make a metric fuckton of money. And they did.
 
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