Star Citizen Departures?

I don't have a dog in this fight and almost feel bad for what CR has done to himself here. It's almost like reversed Scotty from Star Trek, I underpromise and over deliver except CR over promised and simply can't deliver in a reasonable timeframe.

My prediction is that if SC is not shipped by the end of next year you will see an avalanche of refund requests and possible shuttering of doors. Unfortunately this will spur the game crowdfunding scene and competent game developers will not get precious capital.
 
Star Citizen is a case study as to why developers need to avoid feature creep at all cost and keep to the original project scope. I guess they found out that scamming people out of thousands of dollars for virtual ships indefinitely is a more fruitfull income source than actually releasing a finished product.
 
fdiaz78 said:
I don't have a dog in this fight and almost feel bad for what CR has done to himself here. It's almost like reversed Scotty from Star Trek, I underpromise and over deliver except CR over promised and simply can't deliver in a reasonable timeframe.

My prediction is that if SC is not shipped by the end of next year you will see an avalanche of refund requests and possible shuttering of doors. Unfortunately this will sour the game crowdfunding scene and competent game developers will not get precious capital.
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I am not sure that this will sour the entire crowdfunding market, but combined with some of the failures on the low side it does highlight some changes that need to occur:

- high budget AAA games aren't a good match for crowd funding ... if a developer needs 20 million plus then although they might be able to get a small portion through crowdfunding they need to drink from the publisher or venture capital well for the rest (if they don't have enough of their own money to provide) so that there is proper controls on budgetary and project planning

- for projects of 1 million or higher the developer should provide matching funds to the crowd funding (2 million from crowd requires additional 2 million from developer)

- we need an independent prospectus of the developer projects that ranks their risk based on the history of the developer (schedule risk - high, budget risk - medium, failure risk - low, etc)

Both proposals and updates seem to be settling down somewhat and stabilizing with standard practices that are fairly reasonable for projects of 1-2 years of development ... the only thing besides the risk assessment I mentioned above that we might still need is a standardized project plan/prospectus template so it is clear what is needed to begin or complete development (is hardware needed, are hires needed, is preliminary code available, etc)
 
Armenius said:
Star Citizen is a case study as to why developers need to avoid feature creep at all cost and keep to the original project scope. I guess they found out that scamming people out of thousands of dollars for virtual ships indefinitely is a more fruitfull income source than actually releasing a finished product.
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Actually it is a case study to how publishers (eg EA) keep the creative types on target and a deadline. We wouldn't have a lot of the AAA games without EA funding and then driving them to market.

You need business people to lead the creative team to a deadline. The creative personality of these guys will never be satisfied with their work, it is just how they are.

The double standard displayed to this game because they give lip service to the people with the expensive hardware is ludicrous. This game is doomed unless someone with the business sense steps in and gets it to print.
 
XvMMvX said:
Actually it is a case study to how publishers (eg EA) keep the creative types on target and a deadline. We wouldn't have a lot of the AAA games without EA funding and then driving them to market.

You need business people to lead the creative team to a deadline. The creative personality of these guys will never be satisfied with their work, it is just how they are.

The double standard displayed to this game because they give lip service to the people with the expensive hardware is ludicrous. This game is doomed unless someone with the business sense steps in and gets it to print.
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As much as it pains me to agree, but I do. You need some kind of minimum viable product to release otherwise they will just keep going for that "just one more thing" until people either don't care or a competitor stomps all over them. The other one is they take too long and they will have to overhaul to get caught up with current expectations of the time.

They need a product to release, then creep on features later, that way you keep engaging your community and can get good feedback on what people actually want after playing, not just "oh this would be cool".
 
Wildace said:
It's not me who is ignoring what you said, its you ignoring what i said.

To me $1000 is not a lot of money, it doesn't matter to me what i spend it on. If i choose to spend it on a piece of toilet paper to wipe my butt, i will its my choice.
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So if you live in your sisters basement and don't have a mortgage, a thousand dollars isn't a lot to spend on a piece of toilet paper? What kind of bizarre logic is that?

Wasn't it you that said something like "I want to buy the new ship but I can't because I only have $10 in my checking account"?

Also, calling AC 2 the "baby PU" is nonsense.
 
Wildace said:
It's not me who is ignoring what you said, its you ignoring what i said.

To me $1000 is not a lot of money, it doesn't matter to me what i spend it on. If i choose to spend it on a piece of toilet paper to wipe my butt, i will its my choice.
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I'm not sure where I said it wasn't your choice, but when you completely ignore what the other person writes you're bound to come to conclusions that make no sense. The real argument began when you said "If it does then its a lottery jackpot, if it doesn't then it is no more of a waste than pretty much any other activity that costs money to take part in." What this statement essentially means is that you consider the game coming out and not coming out to hold the same value. Otherwise, you backing a game that doesn't come out would be more of a waste than you backing a game that does come out(which is, of course, a sensible statement that most people would agree with).

When I say you're ignoring what I'm writing, what I'm talking about is the fact that you're paying no attention to my actual argument and instead focusing on the semantics of how much "a lot" is. It doesn't matter how much money you spent on Star Citizen, whether you spent your life's savings or this week's chewing-gum budget. If the game doesn't come out, you've wasted your money more than someone who bought a game that they actually got to play.
 
Originally Posted by Wildace View Post

It's not me who is ignoring what you said, its you ignoring what i said.

To me $1000 is not a lot of money, it doesn't matter to me what i spend it on. If i choose to spend it on a piece of toilet paper to wipe my butt, i will its my choice.
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This is insane to me. No matter how much money you have how can you not think $1000 for a game is a lot. This is coming from a guy are buys Battlefield at $60 and then immediately gets premium for $50. I regularly pay launch price but you are just feeding this guys cocaine habit it seems.
 
XvMMvX said:
This is insane to me. No matter how much money you have how can you not think $1000 for a game is a lot. This is coming from a guy are buys Battlefield at $60 and then immediately gets premium for $50. I regularly pay launch price but you are just feeding this guys cocaine habit it seems.
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i don't see it..

KWzFoKA.jpg


Q1FmUF1.jpg
 
XvMMvX said:
This is insane to me. No matter how much money you have how can you not think $1000 for a game is a lot. This is coming from a guy are buys Battlefield at $60 and then immediately gets premium for $50. I regularly pay launch price but you are just feeding this guys cocaine habit it seems.
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He's deluded. He's literally said that buying a game you don't get to play is the same value proposition as buying a game you do get to play. It's really hard to expect logic and reasonable thought from someone who can say something like that.
 
Spewn said:
He's deluded. He's literally said that buying a game you don't get to play is the same value proposition as buying a game you do get to play. It's really hard to expect logic and reasonable thought from someone who can say something like that.
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that depends on the context, if it is a crappy game that you can play and you paid for it, then it isjust as much a waste of money as gicing money to a crowed funding campaign in the hopes that the game will be good.

either way you end up with nothing of value if the crowed funding game fails or if you paid for a crappy game that you wont ever play.
 
Wildace said:
that depends on the context, if it is a crappy game that you can play and you paid for it, then it isjust as much a waste of money as gicing money to a crowed funding campaign in the hopes that the game will be good.
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Maybe, but that's a very different argument to the one you made. You said "pretty much any other activity" so it's reasonable to assume that this includes activities that people enjoy. Playing a game that sucks isn't an activity that most people enjoy(unless you're doing it for the laughs, in which case if you can enjoy it in spite of it being bad then it's not as much of a waste as crowd-funding a game that never comes out).
 
Wildace said:
Eh if throwing $100 at SC keeps the fiasco going even 20 seconds longer it would be worth it to see all the rage posts like yours.
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By all means, donate another $100. For some reason, based on other posts youve made, I doubt you will.....
 
Wildace said:
Which feature do you think is a problem?

Because the multi crew demo shows a lot of features working.

The most important one being 64bit precision and the large distances involved, since it is a single map/instance with the station being over 3,000,000km away from the derelict Retaliator, and the cutlass and other multi crew ships have their own local physics grids working so their orientation doesn't matter.

BTW that local physics grid is a feature that DICE failed horribly at, when they made BF2142, and when the titans moved it lagged the whole server and they eventually gave up and forced the titans stationary,

The multi crew demo shows a lot of back end systems coming together quite well.

It is missing a lot of the polish that is needs, but it is coming together.
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All you have is tech demos. Try using double precision in an actual, real-world scenario and see how far you get. It will be an ungainly, bloated, slideshow because consumer level GPUs have their DP performance artificially capped at the driver level. (Also, why the fuck are they using DP float when simple integers will do; simply make 1 = 1mm or something like that).
 
Spewn said:
Maybe, but that's a very different argument to the one you made. You said "pretty much any other activity" so it's reasonable to assume that this includes activities that people enjoy. Playing a game that sucks isn't an activity that most people enjoy(unless you're doing it for the laughs, in which case if you can enjoy it in spite of it being bad then it's not as much of a waste as crowd-funding a game that never comes out).
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yes but part of the value to crowed funding, at least in SC case is watching the game develop, which is tech something you can do for free but if everyone wanted to just sit back and watch it develop for free then they would never of gotten any money to begin with to develop the game.

The Journey is some times just as entertaining as the end result.

I mean there is currently an optional Subscriber backer choice as well, so you can spend $10 a month to be a subscriber and help pay for community content that is generally available to everyone expect for the jump point that has limited time exclusivity but you can see that pdf on reddit as a non subscriber the instant i goes up or even $20 a month to pay a little more, Which means you can pay to help enhance that journey by giving CiG extra money that they can spend on thngs like Around the verse and its production costs without actually taking that money from the development funds.

If the journey was not entertaining to some people then why would they even have that option as no one would subscribe for "nothing" They subscribe because they want more community content they want to help be a part of the process or see more.

So yes the Game could totally flop and be crap, but i would of gotten my monies worth just from watching the development process. I would not give CiG more money than i wasn't comfortable gambling away in some other fashion either buying a bunch of random games in hopes i enjoy one, or blowing it all in vegas or spending that money on some vacation that could end up being a nightmare with lost luggage or some other problem.

Nothing is 100% certain it is any consumers right to gauge how they want to spend their money and the risks that might be involved.

Every time someone pre orders a game, it doesnt matter if it is 1 year before release or the day before it is released to be able to play the day it comes out and pre load it, they are gambling with their money. From all the crap games EA releases and Ubisoft release and Activision i am willing to give someone else my money and let them see what they do with it, i have given each of those other companies plenty of chances as well. CiG wants to cater to the high end pc community and i want to see them try, something most other companies ignore these days to me that is worth the gamble.
 
Wildace said:
yes but part of the value to crowed funding, at least in SC case is watching the game develop, which is tech something you can do for free but if everyone wanted to just sit back and watch it develop for free then they would never of gotten any money to begin with to develop the game.

The Journey is some times just as entertaining as the end result.
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Which is why I pointed out that your position results in the conclusion that Star Citizen not coming out being just as valuable as it coming out, which would essentially require that you don't value the game itself at all - a strange position for a gamer to be in, and probably not one you'd agree with.

If the journey was not entertaining to some people then why would they even have that option as no one would subscribe for "nothing" They subscribe because they want more community content they want to help be a part of the process or see more.
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I expect they subscribe(and back the project in general) because they think the money will improve the game. People are thirsty for a good space sim, and it's not without reason.

So yes the Game could totally flop and be crap, but i would of gotten my monies worth just from watching the development process.
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But you said it wouldn't be worth even more if the game *did* come out. Again, the only way to evaluate your statement is to compare apples-to-apples. I bought Automation a long time ago when all they had was the 4-cylinder engine-designer demo, I've gotten to watch its development(and contribute to it) just like you've gotten to watch Star Citizen's development...but if Automation comes out and Star Citizen doesn't, you've wasted your money more than I've wasted mine regardless of how much we've each spent. (The difference here being of course that I was happy to spend the money I spent on Automation just for the engine designer in the state it was in, and the project is MUCH more modest)

Nothing is 100% certain it is any consumers right to gauge how they want to spend their money and the risks that might be involved.
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If I go on Steam right now and buy Rocket League, I am 100% certain that I will get to play Rocket League.


CiG wants to cater to the high end pc community and i want to see them try, something most other companies ignore these days to me that is worth the gamble.
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And that's fine, but my point was simply that it makes no sense to argue that it isn't objectively less valuable to not have the game get released than to have the game get released. You will have missed out on something if the game doesn't come out, regardless of the amount of enjoyment you've gotten from watching the development and knowing you've contributed. Yes, every game purchase is a gamble in terms of whether or not you'll enjoy it but some gambles are bigger than others. A $1000 gamble is a much bigger risk than a $60 gamble, which is a much bigger risk than a $5 gamble. That's why so many games get sold during Steam sales because people see a game and think "Oh, $3.75 for that? That's less than I spend on lunch, what do I have to lose?" You can argue that you'll be happy having spent a thousand dollars without ever actually seeing the game come out, that's fine, but you can't reasonably argue that your "purchase" wasn't more of a waste than someone who got to do the same thing *and* play the game they purchased.
 
Well I only ever paid during the initial Kickstarter campaign. In the hopes that I'll get a good space flight simulator, with a campaign. Which Squadron 42 was supposed to be.

Maybe up to 10 million I was enthusiastic at the new stuff being promised. Then at 20 million I became concerned that they're promising too much. And after maybe two years almost exactly one year ago, I realized that I'll probably never see a final game, as this is just a money making machine, and all they focus on is putting out new ship designs for sale.

When they released the hangar module it should have been the wake up call. Tt was the biggest piece of crap ever created. It looked shit, it had absolutely zero functionality or features, they still managed to put dozens of glitches and bugs in it. I probably could've put together something better in a month with a cryengine sdk. And this was all they could show 10 months after the original kickstarter. But even I didn't want to see it as it was: Junk. I was telling myself lies.
 
Wildace said:
So yes the Game could totally flop and be crap, but i would of gotten my monies worth just from watching the development process.
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But you didn't really see the development process. You saw exactly what they wanted you to see, which is created to raise more excitement and more funding. Seriously, have you seen the production value into these promo segments?

Perhaps we should add videogames to the list with laws and sausages.
 
damicatz said:
All you have is tech demos. Try using double precision in an actual, real-world scenario and see how far you get. It will be an ungainly, bloated, slideshow because consumer level GPUs have their DP performance artificially capped at the driver level. (Also, why the fuck are they using DP float when simple integers will do; simply make 1 = 1mm or something like that).
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Just so you know 64bit has been in Arena Commander for about 2 months now.

CiG uses 64bit for location data, and uses a separate 32bit rendering pipeline for everything that is visual, so there is no extra load on the GPU due to current GPU's being so poor at Double precision. This is what allows them to have a star system be a single map that can be over 1,000,000,000km is diameter

Which is partly why it took awhile to get implemented they have had to do a lot customizing to cryengine.

The multi crew demo which you claim is just a tech demo was ran live at gamescom and also had the 64bit location data working. which explains how the demo was done with the derelict ship being 3000km away in a single world map as opposed to 32bit being limited to around 8km.

I linked to both the live and press version of the multi crew demo.

But suffice to say, 64bit has been in for a little while now.

Id like to find the video which talks about their implementation of 64bit but there is just so many video's finding the specific one when it could of been on any one of them and and it might not have been on one of the regular shows and could of been a question answered on reverse the verse.
 
doz said:
By all means, donate another $100. For some reason, based on other posts youve made, I doubt you will.....
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You mean you don't doubt i will?

Because i do have plans to give them more money. I am not worried about the money i give them. If i was i wouldn't give it to them.
 
So...to the people calling this "vaporware", you do realize there are some playable alpha demos out currently, right?

Does that mean a full game will materialize? No, but it's not vaporware if actual product has been delivered.
 
MavericK96 said:
So...to the people calling this "vaporware", you do realize there are some playable alpha demos out currently, right?

Does that mean a full game will materialize? No, but it's not vaporware if actual product has been delivered.
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Don't bother, they ignore reason.
 
MavericK96 said:
So...to the people calling this "vaporware", you do realize there are some playable alpha demos out currently, right?

Does that mean a full game will materialize? No, but it's not vaporware if actual product has been delivered.
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I think people are calling it vaporware in the sense that, despite the enormous amount of money dumped into it, the game will never reach the expectations people have for it compared to what some have spent and what has been promised.

It's not a technically correct usage. I'm sure what will be delivered is basically Elite Dangerous with single player content and generally more polish and material. It won't be 90 million dollars of game.
 
SilverSliver said:
I think people are calling it vaporware in the sense that, despite the enormous amount of money dumped into it, the game will never reach the expectations people have for it compared to what some have spent and what has been promised.

It's not a technically correct usage. I'm sure what will be delivered is basically Elite Dangerous with single player content and generally more polish and material. It won't be 90 million dollars of game.
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Well if you think about it what is a $90 million game?

Crysis 3 was $66million for both production and marketing.

COD:MW2 was $50million with another $150million for marketing and production of physical boxed game copies Activision spent 3x what the game cost to make on marketing.

Gran Tourismo 5 was $80 Million to develop marketing unknown

Shenmue was $70 Million to develop another $23million on marketing

ElderScrolls V: Skyrim was $85 Million to develop

Tomb Raider: 2013 $100 Million to develop and market

Final Fantasy VII was $45 million to develop, another $100 million on marketing

Grand Theft Auto IV $100 million to develop and market

Grand Theft Auto V $137 million to develop, $120million to market.

Honestly considering the money involved you would of expected any number of those games to turn out better, especially considering how much money they wasted on marketing which could of been put into making the games better atleast most of the marketing not all of it.

I mean how did it cost them 100million to make Tomb Raider, and market it? is that really a $100million game?

So far CiG has $90 Million to work with and i can easily see it end up being better than Tomb Raider lol which cost $100 million

it is hard to directly compare SC to anything because there are really no recent games in the same genre beside Elite, and they both have taken very different approaches to development it is going to come down to just waiting and seeing how it turns out.
 
Wildace said:
Just so you know 64bit has been in Arena Commander for about 2 months now.

CiG uses 64bit for location data, and uses a separate 32bit rendering pipeline for everything that is visual, so there is no extra load on the GPU due to current GPU's being so poor at Double precision. This is what allows them to have a star system be a single map that can be over 1,000,000,000km is diameter

Which is partly why it took awhile to get implemented they have had to do a lot customizing to cryengine.

The multi crew demo which you claim is just a tech demo was ran live at gamescom and also had the 64bit location data working. which explains how the demo was done with the derelict ship being 3000km away in a single world map as opposed to 32bit being limited to around 8km.

I linked to both the live and press version of the multi crew demo.

But suffice to say, 64bit has been in for a little while now.

Id like to find the video which talks about their implementation of 64bit but there is just so many video's finding the specific one when it could of been on any one of them and and it might not have been on one of the regular shows and could of been a question answered on reverse the verse.
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I am confused here....are they using 64-bit integers or double precision? From your reply seems like 64-bit integers and fixed-pt (as is pretty widespread in gamedev afaik). Either way this seems like blatant nonsense to make it seem like "look at how much we have to modify the engine durr!"
 
Wildace said:
Just so you know 64bit has been in Arena Commander for about 2 months now.

CiG uses 64bit for location data, and uses a separate 32bit rendering pipeline for everything that is visual, so there is no extra load on the GPU due to current GPU's being so poor at Double precision. This is what allows them to have a star system be a single map that can be over 1,000,000,000km is diameter

Which is partly why it took awhile to get implemented they have had to do a lot customizing to cryengine.

The multi crew demo which you claim is just a tech demo was ran live at gamescom and also had the 64bit location data working. which explains how the demo was done with the derelict ship being 3000km away in a single world map as opposed to 32bit being limited to around 8km.

I linked to both the live and press version of the multi crew demo.

But suffice to say, 64bit has been in for a little while now.

Id like to find the video which talks about their implementation of 64bit but there is just so many video's finding the specific one when it could of been on any one of them and and it might not have been on one of the regular shows and could of been a question answered on reverse the verse.
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Arena Commander is a tech demo. Try doing it with 100 players + NPCs + decorations.

You don't need 64-bit values to makes something 3000 kilometers away.
 
Pretty certain it is 64-bit double precision.

Multi-crew fuses all the existing modules into a build that will begin to resemble Star Citizen's core mechanics. The new module is linked by dependencies with the forthcoming “Star Marine” FPS patch and previous Arena Commander (“Dog Fighting module”) releases; multi-crew cannot exist without each of the prior modules. This makes multi-crew uniquely complex.

Roberts cites the move to a 64-bit engine as a major milestone for the Cloud Imperium Games team, emphasizing that the move to 64-bit will allow greater precision and size for positional space. Of the move, Roberts said:

“There's a bunch of stuff that's really exciting. [The move to 64-bit] is less about 64-bit compile [and] more about 64-bit positional space […] Pretty much every 3D engine works in 32-bit, which is great for a normal FPS – because you usually don't have maps that are bigger than, say, 8km x 8km – but for us, we've got star systems that are millions of kilometers across and the precision of 32-bit just isn't enough.

We've spent about 8 months now – it's done – moving the engine over to 64-bit world space coordinates. The last part of it was moving rendering over so it became camera-relative. The GPUs themselves generally don't work in 64-bit – they work in 32-bit – but since you generally won't be able to see millions of kilometers away, the visible range is inside 32 bits, but the overall system space is much bigger.

[…] There's tens of thousands of files, so it took a while.”
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damicatz said:
Arena Commander is a tech demo. Try doing it with 100 players + NPCs + decorations.

You don't need 64-bit values to makes something 3000 kilometers away.
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You do if you want there to be any sort of precision with those coordinates.

As you get farther and farther away from the center of a 8kmx8km square box in 32bit, you start to get anomolies and errors, your ship or your character will start to skip around and loose the accurate positional data you need to actively use the asset.

It is a reason you do not see maps in games like the Battlefield series much larger than 8km/8km the precision in 32bit just can't handle it.
 
If you want an example of 32bit impacting star citizen, at one point the Arena commander maps are half the size they are now, and then they were increased to the limit of 32bit positional data capabiity, and if you flew to the edge of the map you could see the HUD from the ship start to flicker and bounce around slightly which is a result of the positional data errors from getting to far from the center of a 32bit map.

now imagine if you tried to make the same map but instead of only limiting it to 10-15km across you now try to make that same map in 32bit but it is a million or more km across the resulting positional errors would be impossible to control.
 
Wildace said:
If you want an example of 32bit impacting star citizen, at one point the Arena commander maps are half the size they are now, and then they were increased to the limit of 32bit positional data capabiity, and if you flew to the edge of the map you could see the HUD from the ship start to flicker and bounce around slightly which is a result of the positional data errors from getting to far from the center of a 32bit map.

now imagine if you tried to make the same map but instead of only limiting it to 10-15km across you now try to make that same map in 32bit but it is a million or more km across the resulting positional errors would be impossible to control.
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Daggerfall did just fine as a 32-bit program and it had a world that was 161,600 KM^2.

I think you have been sold on some magic beans. 64-bit has it's advantages but it is complete overkill to need 64-bit DP for positioning unless you are interested in accuracy down to the micrometer.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the 62 square mile map of Daggerfall wasn't broken up into cells like the rest of the series.

meaning you only have to worry about the location of an item or character within a given cell, not its location on the entire map.

but also keep in mind daggerfall is only 62 square miles so at most its about 4-7x the limits of what 32bit can handle accurately and given the fidelity of the game accuracy might not be that important if it was one solid world map and not broken up into cells.

That is still a very far cry from the millions of square kilometers of of a star citizen world map.

the 62 square mile world map of daggerfall is a spec of sand in comparison.


The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion -- 16 square miles
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind -- 6 square miles
The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall -- 62 square miles

Both Morrowind and Oblivion i know for certain are broken up into cells, i never did any modding for Daggerfall to confirm that or not.

I hope you don't do any serious programming tho if you did not know there were limits to 32bit engines when it comes to precision beyond 12+ km
 
This is gonna end up so ugly. We all know with over 90m budget on making a game, that there would be something for the people to play by now. It doesn't even make sense anymore. Your making a game for almost 4 years and 90+ million dollars and there still is nothing to play. Yet they still churn out ships for people to buy.
 
There is also scale to consider.

you can have a 62 square mile map within a 8km map. if you scale objects down small enough, so it could feel like you are traveling 62 square miles

Given the low quality and pixel count of Daggerfall it could be on an 8kmx8km map scaled down to playset level size to feel like a 62 square mile map.
 
I betcha they claim at some point they weren't able to pull off double precision, so they'll need to change engines "now, before it's too late... we need to be able to fully articulate Chris Roberts' vision and despite our best efforts, Cryengine wasn't cutting edge enough. So to be completely transparent we decided to put it to the community... will you accept a delayed Star Citizen that fully encompasses Chris' dream, or a compromise?" Then they'll start extra special pre-concept ship sales. Ships they haven't even thought of yet for $1k each to help back the engine switch which delays the game a further 36 months. Nostradamus predicts!
 
Tgrove said:
This is gonna end up so ugly. We all know with over 90m budget on making a game, that there would be something for the people to play by now. It doesn't even make sense anymore. Your making a game for almost 4 years and 90+ million dollars and there still is nothing to play. Yet they still churn out ships for people to buy.
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Just get X3: Terran Conflict and have it over with. :D
 
Tgrove said:
This is gonna end up so ugly. We all know with over 90m budget on making a game, that there would be something for the people to play by now. It doesn't even make sense anymore. Your making a game for almost 4 years and 90+ million dollars and there still is nothing to play. Yet they still churn out ships for people to buy.
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The game has not been in full production for 4 years.

It took about 6-12 months to ramp up and get offices and everything in order after the kickstarter campaign, with continual ramp up even to this day. Which i believe was november 2012, if you consider the ramp up period, hiring of people moving to new offices ect, full scale production never really started until mid 2013. So you are really only looking at around 2 years of full development.

Star Citizen is not like Elite where Elite used kickstarter to foot the bill to finish an already funded project that was likely over budget and bring it to release state. Star Citizen was really nothing more than an idea of a small group of dedicated people when they started the crowed funding campaign, Kickstarter was a proof of demand concept not a help me finish the game i already have started.

If you want to get nit picky you can say production started in 2011 when they made the video demo for kickstarter but that was not part of the game nothing from that demo is used in the game, it was just a trailer to get people interested in the idea that they still needed to build a team to actually make the game.
 
DPI said:
I betcha they claim at some point they weren't able to pull off double precision, so they'll need to change engines "now, before it's too late... we need to be able to fully articulate Chris Roberts' vision and despite our best efforts, Cryengine wasn't cutting edge enough. So to be completely transparent we decided to put it to the community... will you accept a delayed Star Citizen that fully encompasses Chris' dream, or a compromise?" Then they'll start extra special pre-concept ship sales. Ships they haven't even thought of yet for $1k each to help back the engine switch which delays the game a further 36 months. Nostradamus predicts!
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Um Double precision is already DONE and in Current public version of Arena Commander right now.

It is hard to say they couldn't accomplish something when they are done with it.
 
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