White House: Broadband Is A Core Utility

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This White House blog post lays out the current state of broadband in the U.S. and also links a recent report that says broadband is a “core utility,” the same as electricity.

While our wireless coverage for handheld devices is among the best in the world, a recent analysis from the Council of Economic Advisers highlighted that nearly 75 million Americans don’t have a high-speed Internet connection at home, a critical measure of high-speed Internet access and use. As the map at right suggests, rural parts of the country lag behind cities and more densely populated suburbs.
 
A sentiment predicted by any tech worth his salt for some time.
Glad to see a trickle in the start
 
Steve said:
also links a recent report that says broadband is a “core utility,” the same as electricity.
Click to expand...

I'm sure isp's would love broadband to be labelled a core utility because electricity/gas/water are paid per unit, there's no unlimited option.
 
Yes, because like electricity and water ... if it should go out there would be riots, mass panic, starvation, and death. Yep, internet is just like CORE utilities. Guess they really need people on their Obama phones to keep pushing their agendas.
 
gxp500 said:
I'm sure isp's would love broadband to be labelled a core utility because electricity/gas/water are paid per unit, there's no unlimited option.
Click to expand...

No they wouldn't, because then their pipes become free to use by other ISP's(at cost)(see electricity, phone lines) and there would be some real competition. Or they become a government sanctioned monopoly that gets to be told what it can charge for internet, that would be a hilarious conversation when they actually got a look at their profit margins, especially on grandma who only uses the interwebs for facebook.

A possible perk would be ISP's would have a MUCH easier time building out infrastructure without having to payola every town they want to build out.
 
I don't have a problem with this. I think you need to reconsider what the Internet really is. Yes we waste a lot of time on it, but what are we DOING when we are wasting time? We are connecting with the rest of society. That's what the Internet provides, is unmitigated connection.

The Internet is a change is human history like spoken words and written language. To live in a country that accepts that as a "basic", I'm ok with that.
 
Jeb Bush would wipe out the FCC's net neutrality rules if elected president he says.

Make sure you don't vote for this Bozo.
 
Chaos Machine said:
No they wouldn't, because then their pipes become
Code: 
free to use by other ISP's(at cost)
(see electricity, phone lines) and there would be some real competition.
A possible perk would be ISP's would have a MUCH easier time building out infrastructure without having to payola every town they want to build out.
Click to expand...


That's how it is in certain other countries and you have mass competition, and prices that keeps dropping (as well as on cable).
 
Taldren said:
Yes, because like electricity and water ... if it should go out there would be riots, mass panic, starvation, and death. Yep, internet is just like CORE utilities. Guess they really need people on their Obama phones to keep pushing their agendas.
Click to expand...

This post is so full of stupid I don't even know where to start. So I guess I'll go for the most obvious.

The program that you bigots call "Obama Phones" was signed into law by George H.W. Bush.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the-obama-phone/
 
You sure this is what you guys want?

You do realize how utilities are paid for, right?

Water: The more you use, the more you pay.
Electricity: The more you use, the more you pay.

Want the same for the internet? Or do you guys really think it's going to be flat-rate based?

Something like half of all internet bandwidth these days is streaming services (IIRC Netflix ALONE is 1/3, so combine all the other ones that are jumping in the dog pile and you have a ton of bandwidth devoted to just a few companies. I can understand the logic of having them pay more. It's no different than saying:

A) A fat person takes up more space on an airplane, he needs to pay for 2 seats!
B) Jackie uses most of the cell towers/data in the area, so her carrier throttled her speeds and only allowed her to use 3G after reaching a certain amount.

I'm just saying, it's CLEAR that the pie isn't evenly divided when streaming accounts for ~50% of all bandwidth. Yet we have other cases in life where the more you consume, the more you pay. Why is that not allowed with Internet?

Or am I misunderstanding net neutrality?
 
Spidey329 said:
When you use Fox buzzwords it undermines any valid points you may have made in the prior sentences.
Click to expand...

When you try to suppress a popular meme with "Fox" it undermines my caring. Seriously, its like you have a codex of "I don't like that and want to lazily end this discussion ... so let me see ... racist, maybe ... sexist, no ... privilege, probably ... oh here's one ... Fox." #rollseyes

There was a LOT more than Fox that aired that footage and its still funny as hell.
 
Cyraxx said:
You sure this is what you guys want?

You do realize how utilities are paid for, right?

Water: The more you use, the more you pay.
Electricity: The more you use, the more you pay.

Want the same for the internet? Or do you guys really think it's going to be flat-rate based?
Click to expand...

False equivalency. Water and Electricity are resources with limits and consumption costs. Use up water? Gotta pump it from somewhere else. Brownouts? Gotta generate more.

Even then... some regions don't have per usage costs. Chicago, for example, water is billed at a flat rate based on home size, not usage.

Internet is not like either of those two. More people using it? Oh no. It's slightly slower. Any moment a connection is not fully saturated is a moment that slice can never be used again. Electricity and Water can be stored. Bandwidth cannot. So it's in peoples' best interests to always have the full bandwidth available to them for use. Meter it and you have connections not getting paid for.

And with it being regulated as a utility, you can guarantee that there will be regulations that require a minimum level of reliability and service. Otherwise the money grubbing ISPs don't get to use those pipes.
 
techrat said:
This post is so full of stupid I don't even know where to start. So I guess I'll go for the most obvious.

The program that you bigots call "Obama Phones" was signed into law by George H.W. Bush.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/the-obama-phone/
Click to expand...

So right, so full of stupid because without internet there would be riots, mass panic, starvation and death? Oh right, you glazed over that part because feelings or something.

As for the last sentence, you may want to look over the word sarcasm because it went so far over your head I don't even know where to start. First college campuses and now the Hard|OCP forums , for Christs sake, Seinfeld was right.
 
Power is as well, right? So should the rich pay for everybody's power, cable too?
Might as well throw in HBO as well.

Nothing in the constitution states the internet is a right but that is how socialism rolls.
 
i960 said:
Don't worry, he had no valid points.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, your still wrong ... and ignoring the point I actually did make because you can't win that argument. But please, keep deflecting ... its entertaining.
 
Cyraxx said:
You sure this is what you guys want?

You do realize how utilities are paid for, right?

Water: The more you use, the more you pay.
Electricity: The more you use, the more you pay.

Want the same for the internet? Or do you guys really think it's going to be flat-rate based?

Something like half of all internet bandwidth these days is streaming services (IIRC Netflix ALONE is 1/3, so combine all the other ones that are jumping in the dog pile and you have a ton of bandwidth devoted to just a few companies. I can understand the logic of having them pay more. It's no different than saying:

A) A fat person takes up more space on an airplane, he needs to pay for 2 seats!
B) Jackie uses most of the cell towers/data in the area, so her carrier throttled her speeds and only allowed her to use 3G after reaching a certain amount.

I'm just saying, it's CLEAR that the pie isn't evenly divided when streaming accounts for ~50% of all bandwidth. Yet we have other cases in life where the more you consume, the more you pay. Why is that not allowed with Internet?

Or am I misunderstanding net neutrality?
Click to expand...

I would be 100% fine with usage based pricing, per KB or GB or whatever unit of measure you want to pick. BUT, only if the ISP charges a reasonable rate based on what it actually costs to deliver that data, plus a reasonable profit margin. Hint: that price is somewhere in the few cents per GB range and is falling.

Also, electricity, gas, and water are finite resources. You cannot deliver an unlimited amount. You CAN deliver an "unlimited" amount of data, with the only limiting factors being bandwidth, and the electricity used to power everything. The data itself is created out of thin air. So comparing it to traditional utilities from a resources perspective doesn't really work.
 
techrat said:
False equivalency. Water and Electricity are resources with limits and consumption costs. Use up water? Gotta pump it from somewhere else. Brownouts? Gotta generate more.

Even then... some regions don't have per usage costs. Chicago, for example, water is billed at a flat rate based on home size, not usage.

Internet is not like either of those two. More people using it? Oh no. It's slightly slower. Any moment a connection is not fully saturated is a moment that slice can never be used again. Electricity and Water can be stored. Bandwidth cannot. So it's in peoples' best interests to always have the full bandwidth available to them for use. Meter it and you have connections not getting paid for.

And with it being regulated as a utility, you can guarantee that there will be regulations that require a minimum level of reliability and service. Otherwise the money grubbing ISPs don't get to use those pipes.
Click to expand...

Funny, because ISP have been arguing for years that their pipes are limited and making that very argument for years. You allow this and how long before they get in the right pockets to make that stick and then guess what ... charged by the data. I mean, seriously, can you name a SINGLE thing the government has regulated and it didn't go to pot with higher prices, fees, and taxes?
 
Taldren said:
Don't worry, your still wrong ... and ignoring the point I actually did make because you can't win that argument. But please, keep deflecting ... its entertaining.
Click to expand...

What was your point? That internet should not be considered a core utility because having it go out would not cause riots, mass panic, starvation, and death? Is that your point? Guess what, MANY businesses rely on the internet to function, and without it, people lose their jobs. Guess what happens when massive amounts of people lose their jobs. Riots, mass panic, starvation, and death, (although the last one is probably a stretch). My own job REQUIRES the internet. No internet = no work for me. The internet is just as much a core part of my life as electricity is. Water is a bit different as it's impossible to live without. But all other utilities are just about equivalent to the internet as far as utilities classification goes.

And I'm not deflecting. You are spouting out nonsense and I'm correcting you.
 
Taldren said:
Yes, because like electricity and water ... if it should go out there would be riots, mass panic, starvation, and death. Yep, internet is just like CORE utilities.
Click to expand...
Like electricity and water the internet is entrenched into our society. You could live without electricity and water but you'd be out in the woods chopping trees and boiling your water from the river. You don't want that.

Right now if you don't have access to the internet you're lost. Essentially all the elderly people live like this.

Guess they really need people on their Obama phones to keep pushing their agendas.
Click to expand...

Obamafacepalm.gif
 
i960 said:
Also, electricity, gas, and water are finite resources. You cannot deliver an unlimited amount. You CAN deliver an "unlimited" amount of data, with the only limiting factors being bandwidth, and the electricity used to power everything. The data itself is created out of thin air. So comparing it to traditional utilities from a resources perspective doesn't really work.
Click to expand...
Exactly. The internet isn't a series of tubes.
 
i960 said:
What was your point? That internet should not be considered a core utility because having it go out would not cause riots, mass panic, starvation, and death? Is that your point? Guess what, MANY businesses rely on the internet to function, and without it, people lose their jobs. Guess what happens when massive amounts of people lose their jobs. Riots, mass panic, starvation, and death, (although the last one is probably a stretch). My own job REQUIRES the internet. No internet = no work for me. The internet is just as much a core part of my life as electricity is. Water is a bit different as it's impossible to live without. But all other utilities are just about equivalent to the internet as far as utilities classification goes.

And I'm not deflecting. You are spouting out nonsense and I'm correcting you.
Click to expand...

Many businesses rely on airtravel, shipping, cargo freight, ect ... are those core utilities? People will lose their jobs with those. Do you even know the definition of what makes a CORE utility?!? Can you even make an honest attempt at an argument here?
 
Ashbringer said:
Exactly. The internet isn't a series of tubes.
Click to expand...

lol, yup.

I like to think of it this way. Take a blank hard drive, let's say 4 TB, full of zero's. It costs a certain amount of money in electricity to power it. A very small amount when it's idling, and a somewhat larger amount when it's going full bore. It starts out with zero data. Now, have a program create data on that drive, filling it all the way up. 4 TB's of data. What was the cost in electricity to fill that drive, to create all that data? Almost nothing. People act like it costs SOOOO much money for data when it really doesn't. You can create an endless supply of it. The infrastructure to deliver this data is already paid for in the base cost of providing service, plus whatever tax benefits the company received. Transmitting the data itself is the only cost that matters on a per GB basis, and that cost is pretty much just electricity, which is stupid cheap for the amount of data being transferred per person.
 
The person that said bandwidth is not stored at a moments whim? What this will ultimately lead to is all the data hosts and servers will all be run by GOV. And then see how fun it is to edit your website with
comments that are considerd controversal.
 
Ashbringer said:
Obamafacepalm.gif
Click to expand...

Exactly.

He's just another sociopath to put on ignore. Always the same wingnut talking points devoid of logic when these threads come up. If they aren't alts, they sure like repeating each other.
 
Taldren said:
Many businesses rely on airtravel, shipping, cargo freight, ect ... are those core utilities? People will lose their jobs with those. Do you even know the definition of what makes a CORE utility?!? Can you even make an honest attempt at an argument here?
Click to expand...

Do you?

utility
1.
nadj
the quality of being of practical use
2.
n
a facility composed of one or more pieces of equipment connected to or part of a structure and designed to provide a service such as heat or electricity or water or sewage disposal
3.
n
(computer science) a program designed for general support of the processes of a computer
4.
adj
capable of substituting in any of several positions on a team
Click to expand...

Internet service perfectly fits #1, and can easily be inserted in #2 as an example.

People already consider cable TV and phone service to be utilities, along with trash service as in #2. How is internet service any different? Use your brain on this one and quit spouting off right wing nonsense.
 
sliverjazz said:
The person that said bandwidth is not stored at a moments whim? What this will ultimately lead to is all the data hosts and servers will all be run by GOV. And then see how fun it is to edit your website with
comments that are considerd controversal.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because PG&E (my electricity provider) is being run by the government, Because it's regulated :rolleyes:

I'm a web developer by trade. The argument that government regulation would mean they control what goes on each website is the most retarded thing I have ever heard of. Unless I'm putting something out there that is extremely illegal like kiddy porn, the government doesn't give a flying fuck what an individual or company puts out there. The point of regulation is to stop abuse. It's not always perfect, because the government is made up if imperfect people (same as corporations, small business owners, and individuals). But the core principles behind the concept of regulation are sound.
 
How is it different?!? What is wrong with you?

Without Electricity, Water, Sewage, ect life ends either by starvation, thirst, disease, or the breakdown of society into riots and chaos. Please tell me how not being able to twitter is in ANY way comparable to that?

The only reason that telecommunication was added was for Police, Fire, and Medical services so that LIVES could be saved. That was the entire scope until politicians began to pander to fill their pockets by expanding it. All the while allowing our current utilities to fall into obsolescence and decay. Now you want to allow them to expand it either further?!

Your argument is purely selfish because you want, want ,want and don't care about the consequences. That isn't right or left wing, its just fact. Your immediate wants trump whats best for everyone in the long run.
 
i960 said:
Yeah, because PG&E (my electricity provider) is being run by the government, Because it's regulated :rolleyes:

I'm a web developer by trade. The argument that government regulation would mean they control what goes on each website is the most retarded thing I have ever heard of. Unless I'm putting something out there that is extremely illegal like kiddy porn, the government doesn't give a flying fuck what an individual or company puts out there. The point of regulation is to stop abuse. It's not always perfect, because the government is made up if imperfect people (same as corporations, small business owners, and individuals). But the core principles behind the concept of regulation are sound.
Click to expand...

Being a web developer has ZERO bearing on knowledge of what government is going to do with the internet once it is both under Title II and considered a core Utility. You are coming off as being ignorant of the past and/or of what politicians (and thus government) do once they have a new lever to use to either pander or line their pockets with.

You think we have abuse now? At least its limited geographically ... once the government has control you we will ALL be abused equally with no escape.
 
ep0x73 said:
Power is as well, right? So should the rich pay for everybody's power, cable too?
Might as well throw in HBO as well.

Nothing in the constitution states the internet is a right but that is how socialism rolls.
Click to expand...

it says nothing about power, water, and phone ether but they are utilities
 
Steve said:
White House blog post lays out the current state of broadband in the U.S. and also links a recent report that says broadband is a “core utility,” the same as electricity.
Click to expand...

So does this mean they can condemn your house and call it uninhabitable if it doesn't have broadband?

Out here in California (at least most cities) if you don't have electricity, and heat (usually gas) they can deny you a habitation permit, which means you can't live in your house. Electricity and gas are core utilities, broadband is a luxury, just like air conditioning.

I work with people who don't have broadband. Their only internet at home is their cell phone. Are they going to be force to have broadband?

I know someone who lives way out in the middle of nowhere. Their only internet access is dial-up (long distance), as they don't even have cell phone coverage anywhere near their home. How are they supposed to get this "core utility" ?

Sounds to me like they have run out of customers who are willing to pay the high broadband prices (people are just making do with their phones), so now they are trying to force people to buy broadband by making it a required utility.
 
Taldren said:
Yes, because like electricity and water ... if it should go out there would be riots, mass panic, starvation, and death. Yep, internet is just like CORE utilities. Guess they really need people on their Obama phones to keep pushing their agendas.
Click to expand...

Have you met kids brought up on the internet?

There actually would be riots... take away their phones and net for a few days and youll see. Its scary....
 
SixFootDuo said:
Jeb Bush would wipe out the FCC's net neutrality rules if elected president he says.

Make sure you don't vote for this Bozo.
Click to expand...

He's a Bush... and his brother was one of the worst presidents in history, and an unmitigated disaster for both the United States and the entire world...

Does any san person need another reason not to vote for this POS?
 
Taldren said:
Being a web developer has ZERO bearing on knowledge of what government is going to do with the internet once it is both under Title II and considered a core Utility. You are coming off as being ignorant of the past and/or of what politicians (and thus government) do once they have a new lever to use to either pander or line their pockets with.

You think we have abuse now? At least its limited geographically ... once the government has control you we will ALL be abused equally with no escape.
Click to expand...

You have ZERO knowledge of how the internet functions if you think the big bad government is going to do anything under Title II that you think they are going to do. Your doom and gloom scenario has never happened. I can pick up my phone right now and call anyone I want and talk about anything I want with zero restriction. But in your world that's impossible because "OH NOES DA BAD GUVERNMENT IS REGULATEN MA PHONEZES.... Shut the fuck up, you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
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