A/V Configuration Sanity Check

izusaga

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
475
Maybe I'm going about this all wrong, please review the following:

Windows 7 System:
  • 980ti
  • i7-980E
  • X58 SLI3
  • 24GB 2333-DDR3
  • (3x) 256GB SSD RAID0

I have a 5.1 setup being run by a Onkyo TX-NR636. My primary objective is to push digital audio from the PC to the receiver, and my options are either TOSLINK (not ideal, bandwidth limits it to 2.1 PCM) or HDMI.

The problem is that when I engage the HDMI out from the 980ti to the Receiver, it virtualizes a second display out to the receiver as well as the HDMI will not send audio without also sending video. This puts my configuration into a multi-display setup on the GPU, and severely hinders GPU performance in full-screen video gaming. You cannot turn off or disable this second "monitor" output without also disabling the audio output from the HDMI source.

I've looked at alternatives, even giving a Soundblaster Zx a go with the purpose of using the volume control knob, but not only are my options the aforementioned 2.1 optical connection, but when outputting optical the volume control does not even adjust it. I've even considered throwing a 950GTX into the system so it can run two additional monitors + the HDMI audio out, reserving the 980ti for full-screen video games (while running the 950gtx for a second display + "soundcard") but I don't know how practical that solution would be..

The question: What would be the best way for me to output raw audio from my PC to my Receiver to allow the receiver to handle all of the audio processing, instead of the PC?
 
Do you have HDMI running from your receiver back to the monitor? Or is your monitor connected to a separate cable?
 
Do you have HDMI running from your receiver back to the monitor? Or is your monitor connected to a separate cable?

980ti -> Displayport to primary 2k display + HDMI out to Receiver.

I am proposing the following:
  • 980ti -> Single display out with Displayport
  • 950GTX -> HDMI out to Receiver for audio out, passed through HDMI from receiver to second monitor to keep the OSD
  • 950GTX -> Displayport to third monitor

This would give me a "single display" configuration for the 980ti while letting the 950ti handle audio (+pass through to a second monitor) with HDMI, and then possibly a third with any of the other outputs.

Does this logic have merit?
 
Just run HDMI from the receiver to the monitor? You have two outputs connected, your Nvidia card is doing the correct thing.

Please see my edit. Note that even though the 636 states it can do 4k resolutions, it does not appear to pass higher than 1080 through to my 2k monitor. This may be a configuration issue (nothing over 1080 is listed, but I can probably manually add a custom resolution in to fix).
 
I thought it was odd that you said it only shows stuff up to 1080p, considering on Onko Website the first sentence for this receiver is:

The TX-NR636 is one of the only A/V receivers to feature the latest HDMI 2.0 supporting 4K/60 Hz and 21:9 display format and HDCP 2.2 copy-protection compatibility.

Looking at the Advanced Manual, page 21. It allows you to select which port on the Receiver that the video goes out on and also allows you to select the resolution for the output, Auto, Normal 480-1080p, and also 4k output. basically allows the receiver to work as a pass-thru for 4k resolutions.

That was what i was able to look up real quick.:)
 
I thought it was odd that you said it only shows stuff up to 1080p, considering on Onko Website the first sentence for this receiver is:

The TX-NR636 is one of the only A/V receivers to feature the latest HDMI 2.0 supporting 4K/60 Hz and 21:9 display format and HDCP 2.2 copy-protection compatibility.

Looking at the Advanced Manual, page 21. It allows you to select which port on the Receiver that the video goes out on and also allows you to select the resolution for the output, Auto, Normal 480-1080p, and also 4k output. basically allows the receiver to work as a pass-thru for 4k resolutions.

That was what i was able to look up real quick.:)

Unfortunately, all 3 of my monitors are 144hz 2K's. Pass-through on any display would inevitably be a downgrade.

This is why I need to know if there are any caveots to me just throwing in a 950GTX to handle audio + second monitors. I'd lose the OSD if I didn't pass-through, but I'm not too concerned about that when the primary objectives are HDMI audio output without a multi-monitor display (and it's associated performance hit) on the primary 144 Hz 2K panel and it's paired 980ti.
 
How hard is your performance being hit by the virtual monitor? There really should be little to no impact.
 
How hard is your performance being hit by the virtual monitor? There really should be little to no impact.

It's inconsistent, and frankly appears to be driver-based. I've now run through scenarios with 4 different 980ti driver versions on Windows 7 and basically whenever the GPU is in multi-monitor mode (in the nV control panel, automatic if there is more than one display, which means always more than one monitor if HDMI is used to pass audio to the receiver) the FPS in many games can drop from ~140 to anywhere between ~30-45, consistently, for no particular reason.

Even forcing full-screen mode has the same effect. I'd consider that a pretty harsh hit. Bottom line is if I can effectively neutralize this issue with a $150 investment in a secondary GPU specifically for additional monitors and HDMI audio, while ensuring the single-GPU mode performance from the 980ti, it seems like a no brainer - I'd rather just throw money and hardware at this than fight drivers for an OS nVidia has made it very clear they no longer give a shit about (almost all 980ti issues today such as micro stuter/etc are "fixed" by installing hacked Win10 drivers on Win7, something I do not feel I should be forced to do for the price point on this card).
 
Running a second video card to output audio would work, but at this point why wouldn't you just buy a sound card that will do the same thing and probably be less money?

Unless you are just dead set on using HDMI to transfer the sound.
 
Running a second video card to output audio would work, but at this point why wouldn't you just buy a sound card that will do the same thing and probably be less money?

Unless you are just dead set on using HDMI to transfer the sound.

Optical has limited band witch compared to HDMI, especially when you are trying to do lossless PCM audio. Optical can only handle 2 primary channels for lossless audio, HDMI handles full surround.
 
To get HDMI audio to your receiver, it needs to receive video so it will always need to appear as a video device.
HDMI audio cannot be sent without video.
The receiver MUST be sent either a spanned desktop or a cloned desktop for its audio device to appear.

The performance impact of running 2 displays should be nil unless you are multi screen gaming.
I run up to 3 displays, 1 is my AV pre-amp ((all 1080p) in either clone mode or desktop span mode, for single screen gaming and never get a performance issue.

Audio config can be a pita at times because you have to make sure the AV amp is receiving video and then go into audio properties to select the AV amps HDMI as the audio out.
(Or do the same within the NVidia control panel)
And if the NVidia driver crashes, it sometimes creates another HDMI audio device which then must be configured and used, the old one will still be there but wont do anything until you reboot.

Also running a 980ti.
 
Running a second video card to output audio would work, but at this point why wouldn't you just buy a sound card that will do the same thing and probably be less money?

Unless you are just dead set on using HDMI to transfer the sound.

Looks like his amp doesnt have multichannel analogue in.
 
Running a second video card to output audio would work, but at this point why wouldn't you just buy a sound card that will do the same thing and probably be less money?

Unless you are just dead set on using HDMI to transfer the sound.

HDMI is legitimately the only option to get 5.1 audio channels from a computer to a home theater receiver. Optical only has the bandwidth for Stereo, and it does not have individual digital in so I cannot go 3-3 - and even if it did I wouldn't do that as the unbalanced connections white noise would be insane if I wasn't able to balance the other end with XLR connectors, which this $600 receiver does not have.

Ok. I think the general consensus is that I should run a 950GTX for the second, third, and "fourth" (see: audio) displays.

Thanks a ton!
 
S/PDIF can output surround sound, but the sound card has to support a Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect encoder and the receiving device needs to be able to decode the compressed bitstream. It's not LPCM, but you can still get surround sound over optical. I connect my game consoles over optical and my speakers display DTS is being decoded when doing so. The Sound Blaster Zx you reference has a built-in DTS Connect encoder. Unfortunately most games on PC do not support it so you're still only going to get stereo sound.
 
...The Sound Blaster Zx you reference has a built-in DTS Connect encoder. Unfortunately most games on PC do not support it so you're still only going to get stereo sound.

When the soundcard encodes multichannel to SPDIF, it is no longer stereo, it is encoded multichannel.
The game doesnt need to support it, the soundcard comes between the game and the sound system, the game doesnt know about it.

Everything else you said is correct but what I quoted goes against that.
Perhaps you mistyped.
 
Erm.
That wont change anything.

Why not?

The 980ti will no longer run games in "multi monitor" mode, which is forced when it detects the second "display" from the HDMI audio pass through. I tested this by throwing in some random old PCI-E 512MB video card, it was successful, but I'd prefer something with more horsepower for the DAC functionality and the 950GTX is in my budget since I just returned a $120 Soundblaster Zx that didn't work for my needs - the fact that it's super quiet and sips power is all just a bonus. This multi-monitor mode is hard-coded into the drivers and cannot be turned off in the nV control panel, and when gaming on multi-monitor mode on the last 4 nVidia driver versions for Windows 7 the FPS in many games drops from ~140 to around 30-45 range consistently.

I am running 3x 2K 144hz panels. Saying it won't change anything doesn't make any sense at all - it changes everything. The 980TI runs "single display" mode, so I don't get a FPS drop, and the other two monitors are run from the 950GTX, one using DP, the other with HDMI for audio out as well as OSD on the third monitor.

Can you please apply some logic instead of just saying "that won't work"? Because so far everything says it WILL work..
 
You either have a bug or configuration issue.
It should not be necessary to add another card to make things function exactly as you want.
I have used multiple displays on many cards and none of them have suffered a framerate loss because 2 or more displays are functioning at once while gaming with single screen.
GTX570, GTX580, 290x, GTX980 and GTX980ti, none of them had the problem you have.

You will still have more than one video display functioning (which is what you were trying to get rid of, but it is necessary).

If a video card has a DAC, it is for VGA video only. There is no audio DAC.
Your video cards do not do any audio processing.

I guess if you have that much disdain for my assistance this will be my last post.
 
I guess if you have that much disdain for my assistance this will be my last post.

Please do not misunderstand - that was not disdain, it was frustration. Without additional information, simply saying "that won't change anything" in a scenario like this one with a dozen functional components interacting is downright patronizing when I am asking for validation on if my understanding is correct or not.

It is especially frustrating when I've already stated that this is a driver issue with the 980TI and Windows 7 that nVidia has failed to acknowledge and simply states that "Upgrading to Windows 10", something I will not be doing, will "fix" the issue. Given that, I need an alternate solution unless the driver issue with the 980TI is addressed by nVidia, which is the primary purpose of this tread.

Additionally, your statement on the DAC is both misleading and confusing. In my situation, the video card is simply passing PCM through HDMI to the Receiver, which is the DAC in question.

The bottom line is I need to pass PCM to the Receiver, and the video card is the only way for me to do so - but in doing so the 980TI sets the GPU to function as "multi-monitor", which on Windows 7 cannot be disabled without losing the audio and has the added annoyance of reducing the performance of the video card.

I'm more than willing to acknowledge this as a configuration problem if you can assist me in actually identifying what that configuration problem is - because the system in question is Windows 7 Enterprise and was literally re-installed two days ago with the most recent drivers for every enabled piece of hardware.

Please understand I'm asking for help, and the reason you were given the reply you were given was because you gave a very unhelpful reply.
 
When you said:
I tested this by throwing in some random old PCI-E 512MB video card, it was successful, but I'd prefer something with more horsepower for the DAC functionality and the 950GTX is in my budget
It suggested you think you need more video horsepower for the DAC, that was the misleading/confusing part.
Calling me misleading is not nice.

I havent heard of this problem before at all.
Can you monitor CPU use vs fps before and during when the problem occurs?
Take particular note of any cores reaching around 95%+.
MSI Afterburner lets you graph cpu use and framerate.
Look at gpu use and gpu clocks when the problem happens as well.


If that doesnt show anything significant, see if it only occurs with high refresh rate displays on your system.
Can you set your video output to 60Hz max and see if the same problem occurs.
Or plug 2 60Hz monitors in instead.
 
When playing MGS:V and ESO last night, one core was @ 92%, three others were between 18-25%, the service core was at 1%, and the remaining 8 cores (I have tested with an without HT enabled and the results are the same) were idle (forced parking off). As soon as a second monitor is connected, and/or HDMI audio out is used, the performance of the fullscreen monitor playing the games in question drops significantly. MGS:V nests at 140fps and dropped to 60FPS. ESO nests at 120 and drops to 30-45FPS.

Writing this out is making me question if this is some interaction and/or limitation of 144hz monitors with the higher resolution. It appears that no matter what I do, as soon as the 980TI runs more than one monitor out and the nV panel shows "multi-display mode" the performance of the 980TI drops significantly.

Pulling all the other monitors and removing the HDMI out fixes FPS issues. The only thing I haven't tested yet is using one single monitor HDMI out from GPU to reciever passed through HDMI to the monitor, though the last time I did so the receiver did not allow me to run higher than 1080 without adding custom resolutions, even with the Receiver set appropriately for 4k HDMI. CPU bottle necking was the first thing I investigated, but with HT on or off, and with CPU parking on or off, the symptoms still persist as soon as the system is in multi-display. I'll give the setup a 60hz test tonight and get back to you..
 
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