Surface Pro 4

tangoseal

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Anyone getting excited about the Surface Pro 4, rumored to come with a Skylake processor and new iGPU series that is supposed to be quite useful? Hoping to be able to play world of warcraft on it even in a lower mode if possible but very playable FPS.

I am hoping there will be a Verizon wireless variant so I can add one to my account.

Any surface pro fans out there wanna chime in with your thoughts about all the rumors and official leaks?
 
The most interesting rumor to me personally is that there may be a larger than 12" SP4 model. I think the only source of that rumor thus far is DigiTimes which doesn't have the best track record but it the larger size does make a lot of sense considering all of the other large screen tablet rumors going around, most notably the iPad Pro.
 
Anyone getting excited about the Surface Pro 4, rumored to come with a Skylake processor and new iGPU series that is supposed to be quite useful? Hoping to be able to play world of warcraft on it even in a lower mode if possible but very playable FPS.

I am hoping there will be a Verizon wireless variant so I can add one to my account.

Any surface pro fans out there wanna chime in with your thoughts about all the rumors and official leaks?

if it has thunderbolt 3 in USB Type C its an instant buy for me as within 6 months to a year external gpu docking stations will be hitting the market.
 
I would agree with heatlessun and maxius. I would like a larger size, but thunderbolt/usb-c would be my top priority. Have a feeling we have a better shot at the tb/usb-c though, as a larger size will make accessories a PitA for MS.

While it would be difficult due to thinness, I would also like to see a port for a rechargeable stylus similar to what Lenovo is doing with the newly announced ThinkPad Yoga 260 and ThinkPad Yoga 460. That is a pretty slick feature :)
 
if it has thunderbolt 3 in USB Type C its an instant buy for me as within 6 months to a year external gpu docking stations will be hitting the market.

Hrrm according to Neurogadget (not sure about their reliability) they are claiming it may have ... several USB type C ports.

http://neurogadget.com/2015/09/06/surface-pro-4-vs-samsung-galaxy-view-tahoe-future-rumored-tablets-comparison/14730

I was honestly unaware of the external GPU thing. That would be absolutely AMAZING! I could couple a R9 Nano or GTX980ti nano or whatever they are called for true gaming on the go. I heard the skylake GPU is supposedly quite solid compared to all previous iterations.

On the stylus front I heard it will be vastly improved and made by N-trig (the Israeli based company Microsoft recently purchased). Apparently more touch sensitivity as well as smoothness and closer realtime tracking of movements i.e. writing while taking college lecture notes in Microsoft One Note.
 
What I want:
i5
8gb ram
512GB
Iris graphics
Usb type C (3 ports) one for display, one for perifials and one for power.
1440p 14"
For 1200$ and I'll buy it instantly.

BTW I heard an insider talk about an external GPU project from before the launch of the SP1. Would be awesome btw.
 
Ok external graphics for USB Type C is coming out. Its not a what if. The bandwidth is there! Otherwise MSI would NOT be doing this.

If in fact the Surface Pro 3 comes with Type C, and it has an I5 Skylake, and I can get it with 256 or 512 SSD @ 14" I am going to snatch one up like a bum on some free cheese.

I mean even if the bandwidth is lower and there is some latency, imagine a GTX970 over intels weak weaaaaaaaak iGPU. It is going to be quite fantastic indeed. I am not expecting PCIe 3.0 X16 performance, i'm a realist, but if it is even half that then missions accomplished as far as I am concerned. Just wisely pair it with a midrange AMD or nVidia card and you will be good to go for most games at high quality, I didnt say ultra haha.


http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...phics-solutions-with-thunderbolt-3-interface/
 
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There was some mention that Skylake supposedly had features specifically aimed at better stylus support such as reducing latency and increasing precision. This wasn't really mentioned post release but maybe it just because the tech sites haven't been focusing on such usage.

External graphics over thunderbolt recieved a boost at Computex this year because Intel has finally officially acknowledged and approves of such usage. Prior to then the developer application for Thunderbolt actually had a specific section for external graphics and explicitly not allowing it.

It will be equivalnent to PCIe 3.0 x4. The ULV processor will be the bigger performance detriment to compared to a desktop though.

My hope, or at least wishful thinking, is a more reasonable base SKU and less premiums on memory or storage. Ideally I'd hope for the base SKU to have 8GB ram and a 128GB SSD. At the very least the option to get 8GB ram in a $1000 or less SKU. 4GB for a $800-$1000 Windows productivity device seems rather limited at this stage. Likewise the issue of attaching the memory upgrade to huge premiums and more storage for a $1300 device.

Unfortunately for non US buyers interested in the Surface Pro line even if the SP4 turns out to be the device we've been waiting for the current US currency situation relative to other markets will means 20-30% higher prices compared to the SP3 assuming same SKU price points.

If the base model adopts Skylake Core-M with 8GB ram and a 128GB SSD at $800 US MSRP (would be effectively $1050 CAD) I'd strongly consider. However if we retain the same memory/storage configurations it'd mean buying a 4GB windows productivity device for $1050 or spending $1700 CAD for 8GB.
 

There will reportedly be different variants running on Core i3, Core i5 and Core i7 iterations, says Business News Daily, a report which has been seconded by Tom Warren, resident Microsoft expert of The Verge, in a tweet that assures future users that the tablet will definitely not run on the low-end Core M chips.

The only i3 ULV is - http://ark.intel.com/products/88180/Intel-Core-i3-6100U-Processor-3M-Cache-2_30-GHz

2.3ghz with no turbo. 3mb l2 cache. 15w tdp (7.5w ctdp down). 1ghz graphics turbo.

Core-M skylakes have a 4.5w tdp (7w ctdp up), turbos to either 2.2, 2.7,2.8, or 3.1ghz with a 4mb l2 cache. Graphics are 850mhz, 900mhz, or 1ghz.

Seems like unless they make the new chassis significantly thicker that i3 is just going to throttle anyways under extend load due to thermal limitations (like the SP3 does) while being slower than most Core-M models in burst workloads.

Not seeing why an i3 model would be better than Core-M. Other then artificially inflating the performance advantage of the higher i5/i7 variants.

Also the package size for Core-M is signficantly smaller compared to ULVs which they could take advantage of - http://images.anandtech.com/doci/9582/SKY_Dies.jpg
 
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If the Surface Pro 4 has an interface in its dock for some sort of external GPU I'll buy the most expensive model on launch day.

An external professional GPU is the only thing keeping me from consolidating all of my computing onto a single device.
 
I'm not sure it can be priced as low as people are hoping without encroaching on the Surface 3. I wouldn't expect anything for less than $999.
 
I'm not sure it can be priced as low as people are hoping without encroaching on the Surface 3. I wouldn't expect anything for less than $999.

Not sure why the base Pro 4 would cost more than the current one. There needs to be something between $599 and $999 like the current $799 now.
 
I'm not sure it can be priced as low as people are hoping without encroaching on the Surface 3. I wouldn't expect anything for less than $999.

I'd readily pay up to $2000 for the setup
 
Not sure why the base Pro 4 would cost more than the current one. There needs to be something between $599 and $999 like the current $799 now.

I think a $799 version with multiple USB-C ports (at least one being TB3) and full Core I-series would eat into the Surface 3 in a big way. I could easily see MS pushing out a $799 SKU for the Surface 3 using a Core m3 to avoid having to price a Pro 4 in that range, or pulling an Apple and leaving the low end Pro 3 on the market. Or perhaps reserving a TB3 port for the high end. I'll be blown away if MS releases a $799 tablet with Core i and TB3. I will then proceed to buy one the day it comes out.
 
I think a $799 version with multiple USB-C ports (at least one being TB3) and full Core I-series would eat into the Surface 3 in a big way. I could easily see MS pushing out a $799 SKU for the Surface 3 using a Core m3 to avoid having to price a Pro 4 in that range, or pulling an Apple and leaving the low end Pro 3 on the market. Or perhaps reserving a TB3 port for the high end. I'll be blown away if MS releases a $799 tablet with Core i and TB3. I will then proceed to buy one the day it comes out.

I have both a Surface 3 and Pro 3. My Pro 3 is the i7 512 GB so it is no where close to the Surface 3 in price but they are different enough in size and weight where I don't really think the price drives is it as much as some think. Of course we need to see the SP4 first. Given that the iPad Pro starts at $799 I'd bet the farm that the SP4 will start at the same. It's possible that the Surface 3 might see a price cut, the margins on those are probably good enough to do something there is the SP4 is putting too much pressure on the Surface 3.
 
I have both a Surface 3 and Pro 3. My Pro 3 is the i7 512 GB so it is no where close to the Surface 3 in price but they are different enough in size and weight where I don't really think the price drives is it as much as some think. Of course we need to see the SP4 first. Given that the iPad Pro starts at $799 I'd bet the farm that the SP4 will start at the same. It's possible that the Surface 3 might see a price cut, the margins on those are probably good enough to do something there is the SP4 is putting too much pressure on the Surface 3.

I'm all for it if it's got Thunderbolt 3 at a $799 price point. I'm just not expecting it. It would be unprecedented for hardware with Thunderbolt to arrive at that price, but if it did the benefits for the consumer and the Thunderbolt product ecosystem would be amazing. Thunderbolt + USB-C has the potential to finally be the "one port to rule them all" if it can make its way outside of Apple products and niche pro hardware.
 
They are talking about it having TypeC USB which would be sufficient for GPU usage.
 
I'm all for it if it's got Thunderbolt 3 at a $799 price point. I'm just not expecting it. It would be unprecedented for hardware with Thunderbolt to arrive at that price, but if it did the benefits for the consumer and the Thunderbolt product ecosystem would be amazing. Thunderbolt + USB-C has the potential to finally be the "one port to rule them all" if it can make its way outside of Apple products and niche pro hardware.

Would be interesting. Not really sure what kind of constraints Thunderbolt would impose on a tablet, if there are power of cooling issues. I can't think of any other hybrid devices that are using it. Though it would go a long way in making the SP the tablet that can replace your laptop, and desktop.
 
Would be interesting. Not really sure what kind of constraints Thunderbolt would impose on a tablet, if there are power of cooling issues. I can't think of any other hybrid devices that are using it. Though it would go a long way in making the SP the tablet that can replace your laptop, and desktop.

The Acer Iconia W700 had a Thunderbolt port during development that was allegedly removed for cost reasons. I wonder if combining TB with a charging interface that the device needs anyway would bring it into an acceptable range.

EDIT: Was posting from memory. I looked it up just now, apparently Microsoft told Acer to remove the port if they wanted Windows licensing for it? Hopefully things have changed since 2012.
 
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So, Microsoft has announced an October 6th event for Windows 10 devices.

Guess we know when the Surface Pro 4 will arrive, then. And now we know why Microsoft announced that the Surface Enterprise Initiative would launch in October -- Dell and HP may well be selling the Pro 4 to the corporate crowd from day one.

I'm curious to see what Microsoft has learned about tablets in the space of a year and a half. Hoping that Skylake means less performance throttling and battery life that finally comes close to the iPad. Oh, and if Microsoft could finally admit that the keyboard is virtually mandatory and either bundle it or reduce the price, that'd be swell. (Not counting on those last two.)
 
Going to very interesting to see how the SP evolves. I think the list of things to improve are pretty obvious for now

1. Increase battery life, should be a done deal with Skylake
2. Improve performance under load, i.e. reduce throttling
3. Improve fans or remove altogether if there's no impact to Item 2
4. Reduce weight again if there's no impact to Item 2
5. Increase rigidity of keyboard and any other keyboard enhancements
6. Screen improvements
7. Pen improvements
8. Better "lapability"

Kind of a generic list but if Microsoft can tick an item or two on all or at least most of them, especially around battery and performance, they should have a decent update in the making. A 14" model would also be nice, that's what I think would make me upgrade quickly if the other things at there as well and the weight is under 2 lbs.

As for the keyboard, that's really an economic question but probably a good way to outdo Apple a bit if both a keyboard and pen were included in the base price.
 
Why do you guys want a thinner and lighter device? It's already very thin and light. I'd rather have a bigger battery and a few grams more and a mm thicker than the opposite.
 
Why do you guys want a thinner and lighter device? It's already very thin and light. I'd rather have a bigger battery and a few grams more and a mm thicker than the opposite.

It's just really tough to sell that I think, especially for something that's as large and heavy as the SP3. The iPad Pro is almost an inch bigger with a 18% higher DPI and four ounces lighter. That's just the kind of tech bloggers talk about this stuff and where Apple gets such good comments.
 
I just want it to have Thunderbolt which is owned by Intel so we can use external GPU and it will be a game ready bad boy. I will get an Fury Nano to power the GPU dock even if it's only 4 lanes of pci-e.

Microsoft I hope you put this port on your SP4!!! It will be a big seller for College gamers. They can take notes in class, study, then plug a GPU in and go to town gaming after studies are over.

Based on this ... i'm hoping that Intel is getting serious with it and MIcrosoft added the port. I would be more than willing to pay another say.... $50-75 just to have a thunderbolt port on my SP4.
http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2015/...etting-you-transfer-a-4k-movie-in-30-seconds/
 
I just want it to have Thunderbolt which is owned by Microsoft so we can use external GPU and it will be a game ready bad boy. I will get an Fury Nano to power the GPU dock even if it's only 4 lanes of pci-e.

Microsoft I hope you put this port on your SP4!!! It will be a big seller for College gamers. They can take notes in class, study, then plug a GPU in and go to town gaming after studies are over.

While this would be a great feature, I think there's a number of higher priorities at this moment.
 
Priorities??
Who defines them? You?

I thought the consumer does and as such we both are consumers, therefore, yours as well as my wants should be priority consideration for Microsoft to explore. I am far from the only one asking for thunderbolt ports as well as your priorities im sure have been asked by others. Please use an open mind when considering your choice to override the importance of others in contrast.
 
While this would be a great feature, I think there's a number of higher priorities at this moment.

I don't understand why external GPU's aren't a high priority.

I need a professional GPU for CAD work. Mobile CPU's are plenty powerful now but even mobile "pro" GPU's are an absolute joke.

I am so ready for a "one device' world... the Surface Pro is the only way I can get it.
 
All I am saying is that the core characteristics of the device need to take priority. First and foremost this is a tablet/laptop hybrid but it's base form factor is a tablet. The battery life, weight, thermals, standalone performance, screen, etc, these have to take priority. The next set of core features involve conversion to a laptop. It's a ability to transform into a powerful desktop replacement isn't unimportant obviously as it does dock and if Microsoft can add an external GPU option that's great. But the core mobility pieces probably should come first because it it's core it's a mobile device.
 
Priorities??
Who defines them? You?

I thought the consumer does and as such we both are consumers, therefore, yours as well as my wants should be priority consideration for Microsoft to explore. I am far from the only one asking for thunderbolt ports as well as your priorities im sure have been asked by others. Please use an open mind when considering your choice to override the importance of others in contrast.

He makes a valid point. Someone could argue that their surface pro having a cup holder is the most important thing but logic dictates that that might not be the most important thing for a mobile computer. If it doesn't work well as a mobile product with all of the standard features working perfectly then it will be a failure regardless of how many TB3 equiped ports it's packing.
 
I've been a long time fan and user on convertible tablet/laptop hybrids and always thought it was a great idea. But it has long been plagued with issues of on device performance, heat, weight, battery life, etc. along with Windows being only a desktop centric OS. I think the Surface Pro 3 has a hit in this area because it finally got enough of the problems ironed out to be a good device overall.

Especially now with Apple starting to get into this market with the iPad Pro, and while the Surface Pro and iPad Pro are very different devices, they are pretty much going to be going head to head in the world of public opinion, making sure the Surface Pro 4 is solid on the mobile end is more important than ever. The Thunderbolt option is a good one and has tons of merit, but it can't come at the expense of the mobile characteristics. A little thick, a little heavier, that just won't work I think.
 
A little thick, a little heavier, that just won't work I think.

Is it possible that we are talking a few mm thicker for a much more robust gamut of new tech?

I would certainly make the compromise as a mobile power user. I am sure millions would if marketed appropriately. Again they, the consumer, must be informed through powerful marketing strategem if we are going to have compromise between the sp3 and the sp4 dimensions vs. iPad etc... You heatlesssun and I certainly know all the jargon but mommy and daddy business man or woman probably doesn't and they are gonna be like mmmm this is little heavier than the pro3 so I will just stick with the 3. But appropriate salesmanship and marketing and it should make a killing for most consumers with all the fancy stuff me and you would dream of having. But i'm an enthusiast/glass half full kind of guy (not comparing you to anything of course) only speaking for my own being.

Edit** There is one thing you mention without having directly mentioned it .... the more hardware we throw at it the more power drain it has to assume. Not to mention price. Ouch.... that price point has to be perfect or else it will be a bust.

So if it came with no thunderbolt ports on this iteration I more than likely would still buy one because I justifiably need one in preparation for medical college as I am changing careers now in my early 30's.
 
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The most interesting rumor to me personally is that there may be a larger than 12" SP4 model. I think the only source of that rumor thus far is DigiTimes which doesn't have the best track record but it the larger size does make a lot of sense considering all of the other large screen tablet rumors going around, most notably the iPad Pro.

I was going to say. A panel needs more than one customer (Apple). There has to be more in this size in the works.
 
Well I am looking forward to the Surface event. My first gen Surface RT needs replacement, and the cheapest Surface 4 (maybe there will be a non-pro version as well?) should do nicely.
 
Is it possible that we are talking a few mm thicker for a much more robust gamut of new tech?

I would certainly make the compromise as a mobile power user. I am sure millions would if marketed appropriately. Again they, the consumer, must be informed through powerful marketing strategem if we are going to have compromise between the sp3 and the sp4 dimensions vs. iPad etc... You heatlesssun and I certainly know all the jargon but mommy and daddy business man or woman probably doesn't and they are gonna be like mmmm this is little heavier than the pro3 so I will just stick with the 3. But appropriate salesmanship and marketing and it should make a killing for most consumers with all the fancy stuff me and you would dream of having. But i'm an enthusiast/glass half full kind of guy (not comparing you to anything of course) only speaking for my own being.

Edit** There is one thing you mention without having directly mentioned it .... the more hardware we throw at it the more power drain it has to assume. Not to mention price. Ouch.... that price point has to be perfect or else it will be a bust.

So if it came with no thunderbolt ports on this iteration I more than likely would still buy one because I justifiably need one in preparation for medical college as I am changing careers now in my early 30's.


Being thicker and/or heavier than the SP3 is simply a non-starter for this device. It has to progress towards thinner and lighter in order to survive in current market pressures. It has to compete pretty closely with the iPad Pro like it or not. The numbers on that are 7mm thick and 1.57 lbs. That is a doable target considering the SP3 is already at 9mm thick and 1.76 lbs. However increasing thickness and weight just isn't an option with current market pressures and general consumer sentiment.
 
Being thicker and/or heavier than the SP3 is simply a non-starter for this device. It has to progress towards thinner and lighter in order to survive in current market pressures. It has to compete pretty closely with the iPad Pro like it or not. The numbers on that are 7mm thick and 1.57 lbs. That is a doable target considering the SP3 is already at 9mm thick and 1.76 lbs. However increasing thickness and weight just isn't an option with current market pressures and general consumer sentiment.

Exactly. There are rumors that there are two sizes, a 12" & 14" with the 12" being fanless which should automatically provide for thinner and lighter. If that is fanless it would obviously raise questions about top end performance and throttling. But you can get away with adding some weight and thickness to a bigger machine and perhaps features like Thunderbolt could end up in that version
 
Skylake is the rumored chip so heat should not be an issue as these should run super cool with simple ambient cooling and not have to be throttled. I will be more than happy if the iGPU can handle world of warcrack at minimum graphics at a playable fps. Higher would be better but heres me not holding my breath for a TBolt port which would be amazing. I ultimately need the device for taking notes at school and typing papers and want to have a tablet with full.blown office 365 on it.

What would really ice the cake and is an absolutely doable item would be to toss an LTE radio in it so I could put it on verizon.
 
LTE modem would be nice addition - also 128GB on cheapest SKU would be great especially after iPad pro coming with joke 32gb sku at the bottom.

Anyway too late for me I've waited since May when my laptop broke for some good deals on SP3 or SP4 announcement and in the end I got pissed off and went with MBP
 
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