Apple Announces The iPad Pro

Zarathustra[H];1041846151 said:
I'd have to try it myself to see if I'd like it.

With all the free hand input it seems like it would be a rather messy and unappealing method to collect data, but I guess it wouldn't ave a following if people didn't like it...

I like the way traditional text entry and image object entry forces you to structure and lay out everything, so that it isn't messy.
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But this is part of the brilliance of OneNote. It doesn't try to force structure or organization, it simply lets one input and collect information however it suits them in a given situation. Or course it does allow information structured into notebooks and tabs and copied and moved around and again, that's part of it's brilliance. Text is no different from ink or images or video or sound and a page can contain all those types of data simultaneously and copied like plain text.

Zarathustra[H];1041846151 said:
Having a bunch of typed text, mixed with webpage snippets mixed with hand written notes and annotations feels - based on description alone - like it would make my head want to explode.
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But that's the way things are sometimes, chaotic. It doesn't mean that the information isn't useful or that annotating something over time or with additional information doesn't become extremely valuable. The less one thinks about structure and more about actually what's important to gather and remember, the more powerful and useful OneNote becomes. One thing I do a lot is take an image of something, like a computer I'm working on or something around the house or a whiteboard at work and on the image make notions of things to remember. And the handwritten notes are searchable just like text. Chaotic, not structured but VERY useful.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041846161 said:
I loaded up my Win10 Pro VM because you guys had me curious.
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This is the universal app version. There is a free desktop version that I believe will work with local files, the paid desktop version does that I use: http://www.onenote.com/Download

The cloud version is very useful for cross platform synching and collaboration. A person doesn't even have to have OneNote to share something, it can be done over the web though that's not even as powerful as the universal app.
 
This was one of the most disappointing events Apple has had in a long time. There were no new ideas and there was a lot of copying and catching up. I wonder how Jobs would feel if he were alive. He'd probably clean house and start over.
 
slingshot said:
This was one of the most disappointing events Apple has had in a long time. There were no new ideas and there was a lot of copying and catching up. I wonder how Jobs would feel if he were alive. He'd probably clean house and start over.
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I don't know what all was announced at each event, but from an iPhone perspective the S models rarely have major changes. The 5 got LTE. The s got what? Apple Pay?

6 got bigger screens and whatever else...s gets a better camera/4k video. Next year will be the big move.

No doubt the iPad is kinda meh (why wouldn't I just get a hybrid with a big boy OS?), but tablets, to me, are just big phones. There are some photo apps that can be coupled with an SLR that are interesting, but overall, I think they're fun toys, but not must have tools.
 
nilepez said:
No doubt the iPad is kinda meh (why wouldn't I just get a hybrid with a big boy OS?), but tablets, to me, are just big phones. There are some photo apps that can be coupled with an SLR that are interesting, but overall, I think they're fun toys, but not must have tools.
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A tablet with a 12.9" screen isn't a big phone, it's a medium sized laptop at least as far as the screen is concerned. The lines are blurring at this size of screen. The iPad Pro doesn't support a mouse and I have no idea how well that keyboard works but no doubt at least from some it can do the work of a "must have" tool while providing capabilities that some would also consider must have, like the digital pen that has not traditionally been coupled with must have tools.

I think we are finally getting to the age where hybrid computing is starting to come together now that even Apple is starting to play the game. Of course the convertible hybrid concept is far from new and Microsoft certainly failed at the beginning of the millennium with its Tablet PC concept. But all the main elements of that vision of the tablet PC seem to be catching on now. And that's not a new phenomenon. Sometimes it takes a while for things to come together such that even a good idea doesn't come to fruition until the execution is right. In the last couple of years the pieces are starting to come together. I think hybrid devices will in the next few years finally a very significant part of mobile general purpose productivity computing much like the idea of Tablet PCs from 13 years ago.
 
Can't wait for the iPad Pro Plus, which is 33", costs $87,000 and still can't attach a document to a fucking email.
 
MDboyz said:
They can't, because it may need more power to run OSX.
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They could've put a Core M inside it, have it dual-boot OS X and iOS with the possibility of triple-booting Windows as well. Then it would've been worth the money they ask for it.
 
kbrickley said:
I guess I am the odd man out ... as my eyes have gotten older I want bigger ... I won't get a phone smaller than 5" ... with that big a phone a 13" tablet is perfect ... I need to upgrade my 27" 1440P monitor to 4K next year (hopefully something in the 30s) ... and my projector I use for TV is 100" ... sometimes smaller is neither more convenient or better :cool:
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Yep, agreed, when the tech kids get older they will understand the
type gets smaller and harder to read.

With these announcements Apple has all the sizes covered.

After a few years with Android devices I finally went to the iPhone 6+,
I will never go back.
 
XenIneX said:
Could be worse...

67YTBBZ.png
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OMG that's the stupidest design ever. Random tiny batteries for no reason and a really weirdly sized main battery? That's like something a buncha drunk people would put on a napkin and then try to find on kickstarter. Its no wonder the Surface Pro isn't selling very well compared to like Dell or HP's stuff.
 
cyclone3d said:
Because the stylus is not a passive stylus. It is pressure sensitive for drawing/writing.

Most drawing tablets have it the other way around.. but I am guessing it is a whole lot cheaper to make a stylus with pressure sensitivity then it is to make a huge screen with drawing tablet like pressure sensitivity.

So you have your screen which senses where the stylus is.. and then the stylus is transmitting pressure data to the iPad in order to figure out how think of lines, etc. to make.
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heatlesssun said:
It's an electrostatic pen that has to be powered like pretty much all non-traditional Wacom digital pens do these days. Traditional Wacom pens used electrometric resonance, i.e. Samsung's SPens and the first two Surface Pros. Those require an extra layer to emit the signal from the screen but the pen doesn't need power and has to be made of non-conductive materials. Electrostatic pens emit signals from the pen thus requiring power but reducing the cost of the device and adding all of the cost into the pen. That's why even Wacom now is using electrostatics in it's newest pen tech.
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Those are much better reasons that I was expecting as to why it had to be charged. I guess that makes sense. Still, $99 for a freakin' pen is a bit silly.
 
Eh, i like the ipad for what it is. Simple device for my parents with excellent support so im no longer free tech support. This? Its competing directly against the surface pro and i just don't see that. Now they do have office for mac, so if that also works on this i can see some appeal, but i doubt it. Either way though, at this price i would rather have a full laptop.
 
OEM said:
Those are much better reasons that I was expecting as to why it had to be charged. I guess that makes sense. Still, $99 for a freakin' pen is a bit silly.
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I find pricing it higher than Wacom's prices to be ridiculous. The Intuos stylus doesn't command such a price, not even their Bluetooth offerings meant to go with iPad.
 
Reimu said:
I find pricing it higher than Wacom's prices to be ridiculous. The Intuos stylus doesn't command such a price, not even their Bluetooth offerings meant to go with iPad.
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Apples stylus is probably made by wacom anyways lol.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
OMG that's the stupidest design ever. Random tiny batteries for no reason and a really weirdly sized main battery? That's like something a buncha drunk people would put on a napkin and then try to find on kickstarter. Its no wonder the Surface Pro isn't selling very well compared to like Dell or HP's stuff.
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I doubt that is the reason the Surface Pro 3 isn't selling as much as the HP and Dell.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
OMG that's the stupidest design ever. Random tiny batteries for no reason and a really weirdly sized main battery? That's like something a buncha drunk people would put on a napkin and then try to find on kickstarter. Its no wonder the Surface Pro isn't selling very well compared to like Dell or HP's stuff.
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Both HP and DelI have pens for their devices that use the same AAAA battery. The "random" battery powers a Bluetooth transmitter that opens OneNote and allows screenshots to be taken.
 
Some Random Guy said:
I doubt that is the reason the Surface Pro 3 isn't selling as much as the HP and Dell.
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LOL! The Surface Pro 3 is now being sold by HP and Dell to their enterprise customers how wanted to be able to buy the SP3 through their existing supply chains.
 
shansoft said:
Stylus has been there for the longest time way before the Samsung even introduce any mobile device. Same as Split screen....
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Pfft. And Jobs was always "Why would anyone want to use a stylus?"
 
Cali3350 said:
This is to general a statement. Im assuming Apple is looking for broad enterprise adoption with this (they pounded medical hard in their demo, and I know ipads are in airplanes) and an extra 100 dollars isnt much in those contracts.
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Enterprise. Pfft. Apple can't support Enterprise. They don't have the infrastructure, mindset, nor the desire for it.
 
Chas said:
Pfft. And Jobs was always "Why would anyone want to use a stylus?"
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well, he is still right. I wouldn't want to use a stylus on my phone, computer or tablet for the vast majority of tasks. Sketching or painting models are the only time I use mine (wacom)
 
Chas said:
Enterprise. Pfft. Apple can't support Enterprise. They don't have the infrastructure, mindset, nor the desire for it.
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This is where their partnership with IBM congress into play. I would guess internally Apple have acknowledged their lack of enterprise expertise and looked for outside assistance.
 
dr.stevil said:
well, he is still right. I wouldn't want to use a stylus on my phone, computer or tablet for the vast majority of tasks. Sketching or painting models are the only time I use mine (wacom)
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edit: and sculpting
 
dr.stevil said:
well, he is still right. I wouldn't want to use a stylus on my phone, computer or tablet for the vast majority of tasks. Sketching or painting models are the only time I use mine (wacom)
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There is a huge difference between a stylus which is just a stick and a digital pen with digital ink.
 
heatlesssun said:
But that's the way things are sometimes, chaotic. It doesn't mean that the information isn't useful or that annotating something over time or with additional information doesn't become extremely valuable. The less one thinks about structure and more about actually what's important to gather and remember, the more powerful and useful OneNote becomes. One thing I do a lot is take an image of something, like a computer I'm working on or something around the house or a whiteboard at work and on the image make notions of things to remember. And the handwritten notes are searchable just like text. Chaotic, not structured but VERY useful.
Click to expand...

I guess the way I think about things is the whole purpose of jotting anything down is to organize your thoughts.

Messy notes, notes without structure, are useless to me.

When I take notes - even with pen and paper - they are always hyper structured. I either take bulleted notes, or use a formal structured brainstorming philosophy, like an Ishikawa diagram, broken out to the classic Man/Method/Machine/Material structured bins, to force the thoughts of the brainstorming groups to consider all the options and not get away from the goals.

Free form, either in thinking or notetaking sounds atrocious to me.

The entire thought process - to me - goes something like this:

1.) Organize
2.) Solve
3.) Implement
 
Some Random Guy said:
I doubt that is the reason the Surface Pro 3 isn't selling as much as the HP and Dell.
Click to expand...

heatlesssun said:
Both HP and DelI have pens for their devices that use the same AAAA battery. The "random" battery powers a Bluetooth transmitter that opens OneNote and allows screenshots to be taken.
Click to expand...

heatlesssun said:
LOL! The Surface Pro 3 is now being sold by HP and Dell to their enterprise customers how wanted to be able to buy the SP3 through their existing supply chains.
Click to expand...

Okay, so how many Optiplex desktops have been sold by Dell? How many Probooks have been sold by HP? Does the Surface Pro even come close?

Also, OneNote? Really? We've already talked about how much better and more weather and drop tolerant a paper composition notebook is compared to a Surface Pro...nevermind the dramatic price and battery life advantage paper has over the Surface Pro. You still haven't proven an SP3 or whatever can be continuously used without electrical power for longer than a composition notebook.

heatlesssun said:
There is a huge difference between a stylus which is just a stick and a digital pen with digital ink.
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Yeah, that sounds really silly. Did the marketing people actually look that statement over before they approved it for posting?
 
heatlesssun said:
A tablet with a 12.9" screen isn't a big phone, it's a medium sized laptop at least as far as the screen is concerned. The lines are blurring at this size of screen. The iPad Pro doesn't support a mouse and I have no idea how well that keyboard works but no doubt at least from some it can do the work of a "must have" tool while providing capabilities that some would also consider must have, like the digital pen that has not traditionally been coupled with must have tools.

I think we are finally getting to the age where hybrid computing is starting to come together now that even Apple is starting to play the game. Of course the convertible hybrid concept is far from new and Microsoft certainly failed at the beginning of the millennium with its Tablet PC concept. But all the main elements of that vision of the tablet PC seem to be catching on now. And that's not a new phenomenon. Sometimes it takes a while for things to come together such that even a good idea doesn't come to fruition until the execution is right. In the last couple of years the pieces are starting to come together. I think hybrid devices will in the next few years finally a very significant part of mobile general purpose productivity computing much like the idea of Tablet PCs from 13 years ago.
Click to expand...

I understand, but it's still a phone OS. I was hoping maybe they'd have a hybrid that could run Mac apps...ideally it'd run MAC and iOS apps. I love my iPhone, but there's nothing here to convince me that I should buy an iPad Pro instead of a Windows 10 hybrid.
 
nilepez said:
I understand, but it's still a phone OS. I was hoping maybe they'd have a hybrid that could run Mac apps...ideally it'd run MAC and iOS apps. I love my iPhone, but there's nothing here to convince me that I should buy an iPad Pro instead of a Windows 10 hybrid.
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I completely understand and set the point. I believe some type of true hybrid solution from Apple is inevitable. The question will be is how do they approach it. Microsoft's approach like Windows 8/10 may not be the way Apple goes and that Apple's future will be all ARM.
 
It's a kick ass tablet. Great size, good performing, comes with a pen and a keyboard. Not bad at all. It's a great product.

However, with alternatives (Macbook/Surface Pro offer a fuller experience for a small amount more) out there, it's not a great deal. I'd rather spend around the same or a little more for a full desktop OS (OSX or Windows). If I want a strict tablet with iOS, I'd go with the smaller iPad (I have the iPad 3 and love it).

I can see that it's awesome. I can't see the value in it. It's just a standard tablet running iOS. That was why I upgraded to a Surface. It could do more. iOS is too limited. I still use the iPad, but for the small apps, reading, email, some web, etc.. It's not a do everything OS like OSX or Windows is. So, I won't spend a whole lot on it. Even if it is well made and a great device. From a functionality standpoint, the value isn't there for me.
 
Ur_Mom said:
It's a kick ass tablet. Great size, good performing, comes with a pen and a keyboard. Not bad at all. It's a great product.

However, with alternatives (Macbook/Surface Pro offer a fuller experience for a small amount more) out there, it's not a great deal. I'd rather spend around the same or a little more for a full desktop OS (OSX or Windows). If I want a strict tablet with iOS, I'd go with the smaller iPad (I have the iPad 3 and love it).

I can see that it's awesome. I can't see the value in it. It's just a standard tablet running iOS. That was why I upgraded to a Surface. It could do more. iOS is too limited. I still use the iPad, but for the small apps, reading, email, some web, etc.. It's not a do everything OS like OSX or Windows is. So, I won't spend a whole lot on it. Even if it is well made and a great device. From a functionality standpoint, the value isn't there for me.
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Actually no, it doesnt come with a pen and keyboard. You can buy an additional keyboard and pen for $270 extra
 
MDboyz said:
They can't, because it may need more power to run OSX.
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No, they need to add native touch support before this thing can run OS X.

Remember, the Surface was launched hand-in-hand with Metro. And it's finally be mostly fixed with Windows 10. Adding native touch support to OS X is not a trivial task.
 
One of the things this re-illustrates is why ARM CPUs are so popular and pushed so hard, they create massive profit margins. Apple can basically tout this as a surface pro competitor to the ignorant masses which is most people and sell this at similar prices to Surface pro but their profit margins are going to be so much higher because the cheapo SOC is worth like $30 compared to several hundred for Intels.

I for see another smashing profitable quarter for apple. Unbelievable how much they can get away with.
 
VladDracule said:
Actually no, it doesnt come with a pen and keyboard. You can buy an additional keyboard and pen for $270 extra
Click to expand...

Ok.... Comes with pen and keyboard SUPPORT.

Same with Surface (Pro comes with pen, but the keyboard is extra; non-pro comes with neither).
 
rudy said:
One of the things this re-illustrates is why ARM CPUs are so popular and pushed so hard, they create massive profit margins. Apple can basically tout this as a surface pro competitor to the ignorant masses which is most people and sell this at similar prices to Surface pro but their profit margins are going to be so much higher because the cheapo SOC is worth like $30 compared to several hundred for Intels.

I for see another smashing profitable quarter for apple. Unbelievable how much they can get away with.
Click to expand...

I don't think most people are that stupid when comes to devices in the price range. Plus I don't think there's as much overlap in the target markets of a Surface Pro and iPad Pro as some might think.

One area where there is overlap, designers and artists that are interested in digital ink, the iPad Pro might be an appealing alternative to an x86 Windows device. But for people that are looking for traditional laptop capabilities, desktop software, expansion and docking capabilities, etc., I don't see that crowd flocking to the iPad Pro.

From what I've seen I like the iPad Pro, I think it has a place but it's nowhere near being a laptop replacement. There's nothing about the iPad Pro beyond it's size that addresses the inherent issues mobile OS tablets have in being true laptop replacements.
 
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