Windows 10: Your thoughts so far?

Terpfen said:
No. They are not. It's mandatory for Home only. Stop.
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You're wrong.

Try using the operating system instead of regurgitating what you read on forums.

I'm using Windows 10 Pro and there is no way to disable driver updates!

Professional and Enterprise users have some different options, though apparently only Enterprise users will be able to avoid applying unwanted patches indefinitely. Professional users (including users who upgrade from previous Professional operating systems) will have the option to defer updates for approximately eight months by using the Current Branch for Business ring.
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http://www.extremetech.com/computin...y-enterprise-customers-get-long-term-deferral

de·fer1
dəˈfər/
verb
put off (an action or event) to a later time; postpone.
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For Windows 10 Home users, this isn't going to be an option. If a future update breaks something essential, the user is going to be out of luck.

Windows 10 Pro users will have a little flexibility; they'll be able to switch from the mainstream release to the Current Branch for Business (CBB). This will give some control over when updates are deployed. While the CBB will essentially track the consumer release, it will allow feature updates to be held back for some amount of time; Anderson quotes a Microsoft executive saying that companies will have around eight months to prepare for each new feature update. Delay the feature update any further and they'll also be prevented from receiving security updates.

Only Windows 10 Enterprise users will be able to update in a way that resembles the current Windows 8 scheme. By opting for the Long Term Servicing (LTS) branch, Enterprise users will be able to defer feature updates for years, electing to receive only security fixes during that time. Microsoft is pushing most businesses to be on either the consumer release or, at worse, the Current Branch for Business, reserving LTS for mission critical systems that truly need this conservative approach.
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http://arstechnica.com/information-...to-be-automatic-and-mandatory-for-home-users/
 
On Pro you can defer updates to a later date but you can't choose to never install them.
 
mope54 said:
I'm using Windows 10 Pro and there is no way to disable driver updates!
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I'm using Windows 10 Home and can disable driver updates under Device Installation Settings. The options were set to never install drivers from Windows Update after I did the upgrade. Are you stating that this doesn't exist or doesn't work?
 
mope54 said:
I can't say anything about Windows 10 Home. I don't use it.
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Have you bothered to check for it in Windows 10 Pro? It should be there. Whether it works is another question but I've yet to see any forced driver updates from Windows Update.
 
Yes, I checked after you posted the information. I had to find it via search and it's there but I don't know if that will work. That's good information, thank you.
 
and thats it, done, fuck it. from now on my only involvement with this abomination will be in the form of laughs and chuckles when seeing posts of people having trouble running games & etc on this shit. i will not logon, quote, try to help, or make comments at it, i will just laugh, and amuse myself at their troubles, the end.
 
Aw D4rkn3ss, don't be that way--we're all in this together.

As to the Advanced Hardware Settings, not sure they make a difference. Many of us tried setting it to never install hardware drivers from MS Update and it was to no avail. MS did just what it wanted to do and probably still is unless something changed drastically in the RTM. Seems once MS has decided you have the "best" drivers on the machine it will stop trying to download and install new versions. At best the updates/drivers can be postponed but not declined. Wait until AMD, Nvidia, Creative or some other hardware company decides to release new drivers and see if MS honors the settings in Device Installation. That they did not is one reason I did not bother to install my old Creative sound card into my new build. Constant bickering and battling between MS and Creative ( and myself) over drivers.

In defense of MS, I will say that their servers do tend to learn what is on your machine and will tend to upgrade only what is there after a while. They kept giving me the Nvidia drivers but would install all the stuff that is offered from Nvidia--stuff I generally don't need or use such as Gforce Experience, 3D drivers and such. I'd have to go back and uninstall all that. Finally, when they would update the drivers they wouldn't reinstall the things I had uninstalled which was nice of them or really scary, whichever way you look at it. Since W10 is tied at the hip to the MS servers, MS can do just about whatever they wish when they deliver updates--I've seen it happen with the tech preview for months. That is probably my biggest concern with the "forced" updates. Uninstall, delete, hack, change registry and with the next update MS can put it all back as they wish.
 
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tordogs said:
Aw D4rkn3ss, don't be that way--we're all in this together.
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nnf... well, enterprise is installed and activated on the guinea notebook, it can access the web which is the sole purpose of this machine.. but im taking a break! i cant see this fucking thing not even near me, grrrrr! :mad:
 
@D4rkn3ss:
I'm just keeping my dual boot and the Insider Previews to keep playing with it. If it were the last OS on Earth I could use it but too many things annoy the Hell outta me to drive it every day. Nothing like MS has ever done before and takes lots of getting used to. Next month it could look and work completely differently. Like a growing vine.
 
mope54 said:
Yes, I checked after you posted the information. I had to find it via search and it's there but I don't know if that will work. That's good information, thank you.
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Waiting for that apology.
 
dark_reign said:
Have you bothered to check for it in Windows 10 Pro? It should be there. Whether it works is another question but I've yet to see any forced driver updates from Windows Update.
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It kind of works, at least for me. I did a fresh install of Windows 10 Pro, didn't install any drivers, disabled automatic driver updates and then ran Windows Update. Windows Update still tried to install drivers for all of my hardware, so I did a restart before it could finish. Once back in Windows, I installed all drivers myself from AMD, Intel, etc., re-ran Windows Update and it no longer downloaded any drivers. So, I am guessing that automatic driver updates might only be truly disabled if you install them all manually first. So, fresh install > disable automatic driver updates > install all drivers yourself > THEN run Windows Update.
 
Reus said:
So, I am guessing that automatic driver updates might only be truly disabled if you install them all manually first. So, fresh install > disable automatic driver updates > install all drivers yourself > THEN run Windows Update.
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Why don't you just install the OS without it being connected to the Internet (because you can actually do that) and then install said drivers before you ever get online knowing that as soon as Windows 10 is connected it will hit Windows Update automagically and try to do exactly that?

Seems a lot simpler to me to just not be connected at all, do what you're going to do and then get online and go from there, who knows. If you've already got the latest drivers for your hardware downloaded and stored someplace so you can use them, do that with the installation before it's even connected.

Or does this not make sense to someone?
 
As you see, it paid little attention to your choices in Hardware settings and still started downloading the drivers. What you describe is rather the default behavior of W10--once it determines you have the "best" or "latest" drivers it won't hound you much about driver updates--until the next drivers are released. Being pro-active and trying to get the latest drivers installed before MS starts doing it is what we learned to do. Sometimes MS will still try and change things but as it learns you system and your preferences it won't be as bad--you will become assimilated. These techniques work pretty well for graphics drivers but not so much for other drivers particularly audio.
 
@Tiberian:
I learned in the tech previews to turn off any security software while the update is going on and the very second the download finishes, disconnect from the internet. Let it install or whatever offline. Saved many borked upgrade attempts. Figure lots of the folks having problems taking the upgrade would do well to do these things--MS suggested doing the upgrades that way earlier on.

You would need to have your drivers on a USB or stored elsewhere in the machine. Found W10 to be pretty good about not checking for updates automatically. It usually waits until I click the "check for updates" button in security settings. That is the best time to install your up-to-date drivers--before either you manually or MS automatically checks. Once they start there is no stopping them short of a hard reset. As I said, once MS thinks the best drivers are installed it will stop hounding about the driver updates--until the next round of drivers are released.
 
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The general idea of Windows with respect to Microsoft is that they're trying to create a somewhat static platform - everybody using the same OS, the same tools, even the same drivers IF - that's a big if there so take note of that - they're using the same hardware, and so on.

Unfortunately, end users are just as infinitely complex as the number of possible hardware configurations so in the long run Microsoft is and has been beating a dead horse for decades in that area, but at least they're trying to change things with how Windows 10 is attempting to get everyone using the latest drivers across the platform.

They're actually taking cues from Apple in this regard: they're trying to get everyone using the same updates across the board but as noted it's going to fail and provide a lot of backlash in the attempt. It'll fail, of course, because end users are humans but that's how it goes. I can see what Microsoft is trying to do, unfortunately as noted it'll fail because people don't like change.

I'm honestly surprised I don't see more people screaming "IT'S MY OS, I CAN DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT, DAMN YOU, MICROSOFT..." or words to that effect which are of course laughable. Even so, I'm stunned I don't see it more often.
 
Tiberian said:
Why don't you just install the OS without it being connected to the Internet (because you can actually do that) and then install said drivers before you ever get online knowing that as soon as Windows 10 is connected it will hit Windows Update automagically and try to do exactly that?

Seems a lot simpler to me to just not be connected at all, do what you're going to do and then get online and go from there, who knows. If you've already got the latest drivers for your hardware downloaded and stored someplace so you can use them, do that with the installation before it's even connected.

Or does this not make sense to someone?
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No need to get snippy. I should have mentioned I was offline during install, Win 10 does not have a built-in Killer NIC driver, so there was no during-install updating. My point was that even with driver updates explicitly disabled PRIOR to any Windows Update of any kind, it still went ahead and did it anyway, until I installed them manually. I have an old habit of wanting Windows completely up to date before installing anything else. So I went online to check for updates, assuming since I disabled driver updates, they wouldn't be a problem and it would just update Windows itself, not the case. One would assume disabled means fucking disabled, right?
 
Reus said:
One would assume disabled means fucking disabled, right?
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No, because I don't make such assumptions after having used Microsoft products for a long time now.

But if I did then obviously...

One would assume that people would read the End-User Licensing Agreement for Windows 10 too because it contains the particulars of what Microsoft is doing (meaning their ability to enable aspects of the OS that end users feel the need to or have actually attempted to disable) and if you installed Windows 10 then you're bound by them, like it or not?

Disclaimer: I for one did actually read the EULA, end to end, months ago and with each new revision I'd do file compares so I could see the changes as they were put into effect, but that's just me.
 
@Tiberian: Your quote: "IT'S MY OS, I CAN DO WHAT I WANT WITH IT, DAMN YOU, MICROSOFT..."

Spend some time on the Insiders Forums. We ranted and raved about this for months but MS has turned a deaf ear to it. They seem to know what is best for everyone. Many of us understand how to work around the forced updates but lots of folks don't and it is causing tons of problems already for the end users. The Insiders understood that this is the way things would be but hoped we could get MS to modify some behaviors. So far they have not. Lots of settings in W10 do little to nothing and are most likely just legacy settings at this point awaiting removal. I could make a list if I could remember all of them.

There is the Feedback App on W10. Suggest go there and raise a racket about the update process. Not that it will matter but at least there is that option in W10--glad they carried that forward from the Insider Previews. MS did listen
to our wishes on that one.
 
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tordogs said:
Many of us understand how to work around the forced updates but lots of folks don't and it is causing tons of problems already for the end users.
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Has there ever been an operating system release - on any platform whatsoever - that didn't? I don't disagree that it's causing problems, I never have and I know it will continue to do so - I hate upgrades which is the biggest problem of all with this entire Windows 10 "free upgrade" fiasco but that's my opinion alone tempered by having to fix the problems that upgrades cause for many years now, entirely too many actually.

And yes I agree the issues with the inability to control the updates being a major problem as well - in the past there have been instances where an update of some sort or another for whatever reason ended up wrecking hundreds if not thousands upon thousands of user installations but again, when has there ever been a situation where updates to an operating system or even complete installations of operating systems hasn't been problematic?

Even Apple with their relatively static hardware platform has problems: as soon as some new update is released, within hours of it (sometimes even sooner) you'll find Mac-centric forums practically flooded with complaints about their system installations getting borked to high degrees and sometimes entirely to the point where having to reinstall the OS from scratch became or becomes a necessity.

I'm not disagreeing with people on these issues albeit many seem to think I am for whatever reason(s) they have. I'm just saying this is how it is, this is how it's been known to be for months now, and it's even written into the EULA itself that Microsoft has control over their product even when it's installed on our hardware, and that's pretty much that. Windows 10 just takes that almost Draconian level of control to new heights but again it's in the EULA and people are bound to it with the installation of the OS.

I wonder how many people are actively complaining directly to Microsoft at this point about said problems instead of posting about them on Internet forums, I really do.

(just noted your edited post, and I'd already typed that last line above so it seems we're on the same page there...)
 
We are on the same page. My thing is just to try and get the folks who are new to W10 to understand it is way different from what came before and there are certain things it does that haven't been done that way before. Trying this and trying that probably aren't going to change much. W10 does have this AI or something that the more you use it and the more it uses you, it seems to learn its way around your machine and doesn't muck around quite as much. In that way I've been fairly impressed as time has gone on. Now when I take updates and upgrades, it really doesn't mess up the stuff I have done locally--earlier on it was a nightmare scenario. It really is improving in some areas but others still need lots of work. Still a long way from being my daily driver other than to play with.
 
My Windows 10 Pro has the option to disable automatic driver downloading.

Control Panel -> System -> Advanced System Settings -> Hardware Tab -> Device Installation Settings.

I get a screen like this and from a "Yes" default, I set it to "Never".

In Win7, this didn't default to Yes.

Not sure if this means that Windows will no longer self update drivers, but it fixed my audio driver problems.

Anyone tried this on Home, and does this really stop auto driver updates?
 
Okay so I haven't read the thread so not sure if they have already been answered but I have two questions (I just upgraded close to 30 minutes ago)

1. I did the upgrade but like many I prefer a fresh install. Is there anyway for me to get an ISO or something to do a fresh install, or will I need to get the OEM version when it's released?

2. If say you start playing a song and minimize it, it will stop playing but many times I'll be browsing the web then start a song, minimize WMP and continue browsing. Now I have to start the song then switch to my browser via taskbar. Anyway to stop WMP from stopping whenever it is minimized?
 
Azureth:

1) If you use the Media Creation Tool you can choose to "download an ISO" (the tool doesn't actually do that but most people don't give a shit - it downloads the necessary files for the given edition you want (Home or Pro) and architecture (32-bit or 64-bit) and builds the ISO locally on your machine. After which you have the option to create a USB stick (at least 4GB in size) to use for an install (upgrade or clean, doesn't matter) or take the ISO and use it with some burning software to burn it to optical media. It's a pretty cut and dried process and it steps you along the way. Mind you, if you upgraded to Windows 10 Home, you have to get that ISO; if you upgraded to Windows 10 Pro, get that one - you can't cross-upgrade between editions.

Since you have now done a proper Windows 10 upgrade to take advantage of the free offer, you can now clean install Windows 10 on the same machine and when it asks you for the Product Key - which it will do twice (sometimes more from some reports due to reboots): the first time you can or should be able to click the "Skip" button; the second time you click the "Do this later" link - the reason for this is because the Windows 10 upgrade process created a unique hardware hash for that machine which is used for activation. That hash was sent to Microsoft during the upgrade process (assuming you were online at some point during this process) and from that point on you can clean install Windows 10 on that same hardware anytime you want, as often as you want, and never have to enter a Product Key (of any kind, period).

2) That one I can't answer since I'm not currently using Windows 10, it could just be some bug or glitch with something - it could be related to you doing an upgrade, I cannot say for certain, but since you intend to do a clean install (based on your first question) I would say make an image of your now upgraded Windows 10 installation (for safe keeping) then do the clean install and see if that sound issue is exactly the same or somehow it resolves itself in the process. Someone else currently using Windows 10 can probably offer more info or suggestions with respect to fixing it if you stay with the upgraded installation.
 
mda said:
My Windows 10 Pro has the option to disable automatic driver downloading.

Control Panel -> System -> Advanced System Settings -> Hardware Tab -> Device Installation Settings.

I get a screen like this and from a "Yes" default, I set it to "Never".

In Win7, this didn't default to Yes.

Not sure if this means that Windows will no longer self update drivers, but it fixed my audio driver problems.

Anyone tried this on Home, and does this really stop auto driver updates?
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I have disabled the updates through this option and I have not had drivers pushed through windows update as far as I can see. This is what confused me actually, is this setting just temporary for release preview or are the news wrong about forced updates.
 
mda said:
My Windows 10 Pro has the option to disable automatic driver downloading.

Control Panel -> System -> Advanced System Settings -> Hardware Tab -> Device Installation Settings.

I get a screen like this and from a "Yes" default, I set it to "Never".

In Win7, this didn't default to Yes.

Not sure if this means that Windows will no longer self update drivers, but it fixed my audio driver problems.

Anyone tried this on Home, and does this really stop auto driver updates?
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worked like a charm on my Venue 11Pro
 
My old Cisco VPN client borked my network adapter during the upgrade, had to do some voodoo to get it back.
Otherwise it was smooth. Finding all the settings may take some adjustment. I'll be sticking to it.
 
Domingo said:
DPI handling is a mess. 100% is fine, but things are too small. Boosting it to 125% makes things the right size, BUT lots of programs and OS elements are blurry as hell as a result.
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100% is too small? Is your monitor higher than 96 PPI?
 
Unknown-One said:
100% is too small? Is your monitor higher than 96 PPI?
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I'm on a 65" 4K television and sitting about 8 feet away. The text is readable, but it's small and I'd like it to be larger. 125% has been the gold standard for me on Windows XP, 7, and 8. Ditto for my normal work PC, too. Unfortunately the DPI settings with 10 make some apps look great and others a blurry mess.
 
Does anyone know why UI elements seem to be missing when using remote desktop from one Win 10 to PC to another? The start button has no windows logo, tray is blanked out, max/min/close is blanked out. Is anyone else experiencing this?
 
Cmdrmonkey said:
Does anyone know why UI elements seem to be missing when using remote desktop from one Win 10 to PC to another? The start button has no windows logo, tray is blanked out, max/min/close is blanked out. Is anyone else experiencing this?
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Not seen this in my tests. Might be an issues with the performance of the host machine. I've remoted into two clients using Team Viewer forcing the Windows 10 upgrade both from Windows 7 and interestingly they both ran much better remotely after the upgrade.
 
So why are some settings in the tablet style settings menus and the rest of the normal settings in the control panel?

Why cant we just have all the settings in the control panel and disable those other pages all together, they're a pain to navigate and ugly.
 
VulcaN said:
So why are some settings in the tablet style settings menus and the rest of the normal settings in the control panel?

Why cant we just have all the settings in the control panel and disable those other pages all together, they're a pain to navigate and ugly.
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They are moving forward and I am fine with that. The control panel has to stick around because of backwards compatibility, no more, no less. How about we just dump all the legacy stuff at once and move on from there? (Not realistic or right, just saying.)
 
VulcaN said:
So why are some settings in the tablet style settings menus and the rest of the normal settings in the control panel?

Why cant we just have all the settings in the control panel and disable those other pages all together, they're a pain to navigate and ugly.
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The Control Panel isn't touch optimized and a lot of what is done in Settings needs to work on tablet. As far as the aesthetics, ok. But those do nothing to make things easier to find and navigate. Who stares as the beauty of the Control Panel?
 
I feel like with the alphabetized control panel listing, and applications style, I can get to the settings I want faster. Surely its not just me?

I thought they were finally going to move away from the touch interface and move back to the desktop with 10- that it was supposed to improve the keyboard and mouse experience from Windows ME, I mean Windows 8. I'll still use it, just surprised I keep finding tablet options everywhere on the revamped Desktop OS.

The only improvements I notice immediately are the start screen being condensed into the start menu and full screen apps opening in a window.
 
Liking it so far. Upgraded from 7. Hated Windows 8.
As far as the Nvidia control panel, if you go into device manager and click update driver and click update from the web. It will tell you, you have the latest driver. Then it will ask you to reboot. After that, the Geforce experience will reappear in your task bar.
 
Terpfen said:
Waiting for that apology.
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Apology for what?

As multiple people have pointed out, the setting is available but Windows basically ignores it...nice selective reading :rolleyes:

dkev said:
As far as the Nvidia control panel, if you go into device manager and click update driver and click update from the web. It will tell you, you have the latest driver. Then it will ask you to reboot. After that, the Geforce experience will reappear in your task bar.
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Main problem is the latest driver from nVidia broke some SLI profiles (and some issues with G-Sync) so some of us are trying to use a driver or two back. This is what's putting Windows in a driver update loop. If you want to be at the latest drivers, and you are on the latest drivers, then setting Windows not to update and then seeing that it doesn't update (because it's on the most current, not because it's actually adhering to the setting) isn't resolving the issue we were experiencing.
 
@mope54:
Not sure if you've seen this "tool" but it is one of the only ways to temporarily try and keep an update from reinstalling. MS threw us this bone after so many complaints. It is cumbersome to use and seems to only pull up drivers/updates that MS has deemed faulty. Using it is so ,so much more complicated than just asking us in advance if we want to download and install a particular update. If posted before, my apologies.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930

The tool resides on the desktop or in some file--couldn't find a way to pin it to the taskbar or start menu if I recall correctly. Maybe it will pull up the couple of Nvidia drivers you are trying to avoid and you can block them for a while. For me it only pulled up a couple Realtek drivers and not the Nvidia drivers I was hunting.

The settings in hardware installation are most likely only legacy at this point and await deprecation from the Win32 system. Believe in the last update ( KB 3081424) that Windows Update was deprecated from the Win32 Control Panel and is now only available in the WinRT Settings "app". Anything that now reverts to/resides in Win32 settings is on the chopping block for being moved into WinRT as soon as the APIs mature.
 
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