Morally conflicted about buying NVIDIA

780 Ti would be terrible. It can still play games admirably, but it uses almost 290 power anyway, is not optimized for, only has 3GB of memory, and is all around stupid to choose over a 290X / 390 / 970 at this point in time. People who have them can still use them, but to buy one doesn't make sense.
 
you should buy the best card for your price range. if its amd/nvidia why punish yourself with an inferior product? Buy the best at time that is within your budget i say. Brand loyalty gets you what exactly?
 
If this is really a moral dilemma for you, just stop buying electronics altogether.

Better yet, stop buying food and clothes. Make/grow your own.
 
Well it seems to be significantly faster than the 970 in tests and sometimes reaches 980 speeds.

Not true. And these benchmarks are form this month, so the drives are up-to-date:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/R9_390_PCS_Plus/30.html

At 1440p, in 22 game tests performed earlier this month, the GTX 970 matches or beats the R9 290x in the majority. Only in eight of the games tested does the 290X compete with (or exceed) the 980. So *sometimes* a 980 competitor, but not always. Hence the lower price.

And at 1080p (the most popular gaming resolution by a country mile), the 970 is the ONLY competitor to the 290x.

This is ignoring overclocks. All cards are reference.
 
Depending how strongly your conviction toward AMD or Nvidia, like the other posters have noted, just buy whatever feels right for you regardless or AMD or Nvidia. I probably will wait until Fury Nano comes out before making any decision.
 
Not true. And these benchmarks are form this month, so the drives are up-to-date:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/R9_390_PCS_Plus/30.html

At 1440p, in 22 game tests performed earlier this month, the GTX 970 matches or beats the R9 290x in the majority. Only in eight of the games tested does the 290X compete with (or exceed) the 980. So *sometimes* a 980 competitor, but not always. Hence the lower price.

And at 1080p (the most popular gaming resolution by a country mile), the 970 is the ONLY competitor to the 290x.

This is ignoring overclocks. All cards are reference.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...o-Radeon-R9-390-8GB-Review/Grand-Theft-Auto-V
 
AMD is pretty sneaky too. They are just more covert about it in certain ways.

E.g Fury X performance. At the time before release, everyone was saying fury x was going to be faster than Titan X, let alone the gtx 980 ti. And not by a little bit, but by 10% or so. What happened I am pretty sure is AMD leaked these false benchmarks to slow down Nvidia sales.

People that were supposedly in the know were confirming that these rumors were true. What this means is someone in the company leaked this stuff and were simply allowing the fud to spread so that people would wait for AMD's release of the cards.

This is dishonest but no one has to take accountability for it.

However this has been mixed in with other stuff that does have some accountability. E.g like AMD rebranding an entire series and moving the price upwards with their entire 3xx series. The worst thing about this rebranding is that in the past both companies knew they had to lower the card series down a tier to reflect its performance(gtx 680 - 770, 7970 - 280x), but AMD didn't even do that and raise the priced which was shady as heck. And also Richard Huddy's statements about the overclockability of Fury X are infamous at this point. Plus lets not forget AMD loose terms of the term cores in how they advertise there CPU's. E.g AMD trying to sell bulldozer as a true 8 core or more recently, trying to push their APU as 12 and 16 core processors because they include the graphics core as compute cores as well.

All these tactics were dishonest as heck, which shows AMD isn't the most honest company. However all these tactics share something else in common. They are basically all cheap or free marketing tactics. Which leads me to believe, if AMD had the marketshare and money, they would be emulating something similar to gameworks.

There are still alot of games when AMD was putting money into their gaming evolved program that run worse on Nvidia hardware. Games like hitman Absolution, sleeping dogs and some of the Dirt games.
 
Both companies are guilty of doing unscrupulous things. There really is no reason to pick AMD over nVidia for ethical reasons. Now, if there were more contenders in the field at the same level, then you can afford to be picky based on ethics (just like I choose not to support EK, because there are multiple other companies with just as good products).

If you want to support nVidia as little as possible, here's an option:

Find someone selling the nVidia card you're looking for.
Have them swear to you they would only use that money for buying AMD.

You both win :D
 
Morally conflicted about a video card. We're definitely in twilight zone territory.
 
Buy slightly used 980 for a bit more than a new 970, or save for a 980ti. I got my 2 month old Asus 980 from a guy who bought a 980ti, many more stories like that around here.
 
OP - I had the same heat issue in the room where my main rig is located. I solved it by moving the rig out of the room into an adjacent room, and used cable extensions for HDMI and USB connections. The reality is that both AMD or Nvidia based GPU with CPU gaming load will heat up a tiny room regardless.

Items you may want to check out if you pursue a similar solution:

Regular HDMI or Redmere HDMI cable 15-20"
e.g. http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025503&p_id=9891&seq=1&format=2

USB 3.0 Type A to B Cable in Black 15 Feet
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00C7S0BES?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00

USB 3.0 7-Port Hub with 1 BC 1.2 Charging Port up to 5V 1.5A, 12V 3A
http://www.amazon.com/Charging-Adap...d=1438381212&sr=8-1&keywords=anker+usb3.0+hub

Now, I don't worry about heat at all due to overclocked gaming :D

I do get what you mean about voting with your pocket. My GPU history includes 9700 Pro, 6800 GT, 8800 GTX, 4870, 5870/Crossfire, GTX 570/SLI... This week I ordered a 290X at $260. Was debating between 970, 980, Fury/X and 980 Ti primarily. Given the incredible deal and the following considerations, 290X was a no brainer decision at this moment in time.

-the 970 3.5GB shenanigan
-Kepler's steep relative performance decline in recent titles
-Win10/DX12 overhead reduction benefit to GCN uarch
-Acceptable Witcher 3 and GTA V performance, especially given some OC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dej4_VAkx_0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch2dqsZeNHs


Good luck! :)
 
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I heard buying Nvidia is the same as trophy hunting in Africa. If you get a 980ti you might have to quit your practice.
 
I feel the OP, every time I buy an NVIDIA product I'm conflicted because I know a kitten will be sacrificed.
 
Not that this is any concern to most people here, but AMD is much more friendly to the open source community. So they are indeed the lesser the corporate gaming evils from where I'm sitting.
 
AMD is pretty sneaky too. They are just more covert about it in certain ways.

E.g Fury X performance. At the time before release, everyone was saying fury x was going to be faster than Titan X, let alone the gtx 980 ti. And not by a little bit, but by 10% or so. What happened I am pretty sure is AMD leaked these false benchmarks to slow down Nvidia sales.

People that were supposedly in the know were confirming that these rumors were true. What this means is someone in the company leaked this stuff and were simply allowing the fud to spread so that people would wait for AMD's release of the cards.

This is dishonest but no one has to take accountability for it.

What are you smoking, and where can I get some of that fine stuff?
 
Curious.....Almost thinking that the OP is trying to start a firestorm.

This is a VERY pro Nvidia forum....I mean you know this thread is going to derail quickly.

On top of that both companies do shady shit, It's just Nvidia has a bigger market share, and can easily get away with it.
 
I have to count to 3 and flip the light switch 3x before I leave the room. On and I'm platform/manufacturer/company/hardware agnostic.
 
Just a video card man. Get what fits your needs. If AMD wanted to sell you a low power video card then they would have developed one. Since they don't buy what fits what you need.

With that said AMD is coming out with the Nano soon I suppose. Look into that as it is supposed to be a low wattage card..

All businesses want money. There is nothing wrong with that. They aren't charity organizations. I never understood demonizing businesses the way some people do. And don't kid yourself, AMD has charged $1,000 for desktop CPUs and ATi/AMD has charged as much as NVIDIA for video cards as well. I've personally had awful driver experiences with AMD and gone to them about resolving issues. AMD will flat deny that such issues even exist, or flat out ignore me. Later on down the line they've often corrected the design or issued a driver that resolves that exact issue.

AMD isn't some white knight that's beyond reproach or some underdog fighting for the little guy. They are a business that wants cash the same as any other.
 
The thing I find interesting in this thread is the OP wants to take a stand, vote with his wallet, not support (or support the least) the type of company that is dishonest. He is trying to be a consumer who doesn't support behavior that he finds morally offensive. Whether AMD or nVidia is worse than the other isn't my point here. What I see is people mocking him for trying to make a choice that reflects his values. Mocking the very concept that we should live our lives trying to support whatever person or organization that we feel has better values.

I actively try to support the company that I find least evil. I would like to say the 'best' companies, but I am a little too jaded to think that any of them are saints. For instance I avoid (unless there are no other viable options) buying ASUS products because their warranty is completely unreliable at best. They make quality products and often very innovative along with acceptable pricing, but they have horrible customer support despite what they claim on the website and product package. There are actually quite a few companies that I try to avoid because there is no honesty at all, only talking heads and PR departments scripting what they feel we want to hear. And whether or not I feel the same way about nVidia I applaud the OP for trying to make a moral choice.

TL: DR- OP is trying to act responsibly and getting mocked for it. You who are doing that are the problem.
 
The thing I find interesting in this thread is the OP wants to take a stand, vote with his wallet, not support (or support the least) the type of company that is dishonest. He is trying to be a consumer who doesn't support behavior that he finds morally offensive. Whether AMD or nVidia is worse than the other isn't my point here. What I see is people mocking him for trying to make a choice that reflects his values. Mocking the very concept that we should live our lives trying to support whatever person or organization that we feel has better values.

I actively try to support the company that I find least evil. I would like to say the 'best' companies, but I am a little too jaded to think that any of them are saints. For instance I avoid (unless there are no other viable options) buying ASUS products because their warranty is completely unreliable at best. They make quality products and often very innovative along with acceptable pricing, but they have horrible customer support despite what they claim on the website and product package. There are actually quite a few companies that I try to avoid because there is no honesty at all, only talking heads and PR departments scripting what they feel we want to hear. And whether or not I feel the same way about nVidia I applaud the OP for trying to make a moral choice.

TL: DR- OP is trying to act responsibly and getting mocked for it. You who are doing that are the problem.

+1 on this.
 
Good post. There is logic in voting with your wallet. I too am one of those strange people who partly base purchasing decisions on taking a stand or supporting a more balanced market. I'm not a masochist though; I would not buy an AMD CPU for my main rig.;)

But I suppose it's not surprising some people ridicule this. There are people out there that find proprietary Gameworks more desirable than an open source alternative. I find it vile.
 
I'm certainly for taking a stand and voting with your wallet. In my opinion though, AMD is almost as bad as NVIDIA. At least as far as I'm concerned. Both ignore problems and both will charge you as much as possible for hardware.
 
All businesses want money. There is nothing wrong with that. They aren't charity organizations. I never understood demonizing businesses the way some people do. And don't kid yourself, AMD has charged $1,000 for desktop CPUs and ATi/AMD has charged as much as NVIDIA for video cards as well. I've personally had awful driver experiences with AMD and gone to them about resolving issues. AMD will flat deny that such issues even exist, or flat out ignore me. Later on down the line they've often corrected the design or issued a driver that resolves that exact issue.

AMD isn't some white knight that's beyond reproach or some underdog fighting for the little guy. They are a business that wants cash the same as any other.

Yes, but I think nVidia has gotten a lot worse in the last few years. the nvidia now isn't the same nvidia I was proud to buy GTX 480 or 580s from and defend my purchase. When GTX 480 screwed up big time, Jen-Hsun Huang was not afraid to come out and admit that nvidia screwed up but that they are going to improve. Nowadays Nvidia no longer takes any accountability for their intentional mistakes that are designed to deceive or dupe the consumer.

The thing I find interesting in this thread is the OP wants to take a stand, vote with his wallet, not support (or support the least) the type of company that is dishonest. He is trying to be a consumer who doesn't support behavior that he finds morally offensive. Whether AMD or nVidia is worse than the other isn't my point here. What I see is people mocking him for trying to make a choice that reflects his values. Mocking the very concept that we should live our lives trying to support whatever person or organization that we feel has better values.

I actively try to support the company that I find least evil. I would like to say the 'best' companies, but I am a little too jaded to think that any of them are saints. For instance I avoid (unless there are no other viable options) buying ASUS products because their warranty is completely unreliable at best. They make quality products and often very innovative along with acceptable pricing, but they have horrible customer support despite what they claim on the website and product package. There are actually quite a few companies that I try to avoid because there is no honesty at all, only talking heads and PR departments scripting what they feel we want to hear. And whether or not I feel the same way about nVidia I applaud the OP for trying to make a moral choice.

TL: DR- OP is trying to act responsibly and getting mocked for it. You who are doing that are the problem.

This. I like nvidia graphics cards. I loved my 8800 ultras and GTX 580 SLI and how those setups managed to stand up to newer cards and play the games I wanted without issues ( even if I had to hack SLI drivers for my lga775 motherboards). NVIDIA has really gone of into the deep end in terms of their behavior and I don't want to buy graphics cards from nvidia anymore.

A lot of you guys have no problem bashing the $@!% out of Apple yet for some reason nvidia which is starting to employ a lot of the same practices is getting a blank check.
 
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I'll personally buy either brand video card, cpu's on the other hand are Intel only.
I got burned by Cyrix in the mid 90's and have been Intel only since.
Burned is probably the wrong word, more like misled. Cyrix 166+ cpu was supposed to be equivalent to a Pentium 166 but when we did some Lightwave rendering, my brothers Pentium 100 was much much faster than the Cyrix. Sold the Cyrix setup the next day and went Intel.
 
+1 on this.

+2nd :)

Good post. There is logic in voting with your wallet. I too am one of those strange people who partly base purchasing decisions on taking a stand or supporting a more balanced market. I'm not a masochist though; I would not buy an AMD CPU for my main rig.

AMD FX CPU are great if you need low cost servers/test beds with 8 cores, ECC memory and IOMMU HW passthrough for backend emulations. ;)
 
Maybe look at one of AMD's top of the line APU's as they seem to be closing ground on cards like a 480GTX/HD6970 ..

Also Sapphire seemed to put out some interesting 290X at EOL or before 390/390x release as they call it the New Edition 290X built with 6 phase power design and Tri X cooler as I picked one up new for $259 and the factory clocks are 1020/1350 and the darn thing only got to 65c under Heaven 4.0 benchmark,,, and both VRM's hit 61c with a room temp of 75F..
 
The thing I find interesting in this thread is the OP wants to take a stand, vote with his wallet, not support (or support the least) the type of company that is dishonest. He is trying to be a consumer who doesn't support behavior that he finds morally offensive. Whether AMD or nVidia is worse than the other isn't my point here. What I see is people mocking him for trying to make a choice that reflects his values. Mocking the very concept that we should live our lives trying to support whatever person or organization that we feel has better values.

I actively try to support the company that I find least evil. I would like to say the 'best' companies, but I am a little too jaded to think that any of them are saints. For instance I avoid (unless there are no other viable options) buying ASUS products because their warranty is completely unreliable at best. They make quality products and often very innovative along with acceptable pricing, but they have horrible customer support despite what they claim on the website and product package. There are actually quite a few companies that I try to avoid because there is no honesty at all, only talking heads and PR departments scripting what they feel we want to hear. And whether or not I feel the same way about nVidia I applaud the OP for trying to make a moral choice.

TL: DR- OP is trying to act responsibly and getting mocked for it. You who are doing that are the problem.
Another +1 for this post.
 
The thing I find interesting in this thread is the OP wants to take a stand, vote with his wallet, not support (or support the least) the type of company that is dishonest. He is trying to be a consumer who doesn't support behavior that he finds morally offensive. Whether AMD or nVidia is worse than the other isn't my point here. What I see is people mocking him for trying to make a choice that reflects his values. Mocking the very concept that we should live our lives trying to support whatever person or organization that we feel has better values.

I actively try to support the company that I find least evil. I would like to say the 'best' companies, but I am a little too jaded to think that any of them are saints. For instance I avoid (unless there are no other viable options) buying ASUS products because their warranty is completely unreliable at best. They make quality products and often very innovative along with acceptable pricing, but they have horrible customer support despite what they claim on the website and product package. There are actually quite a few companies that I try to avoid because there is no honesty at all, only talking heads and PR departments scripting what they feel we want to hear. And whether or not I feel the same way about nVidia I applaud the OP for trying to make a moral choice.

TL: DR- OP is trying to act responsibly and getting mocked for it. You who are doing that are the problem.

That's not the problem. The problem is when you are taking a stand base on a misguided illusion about who's bad and who's a saint, and in the end you're the only one that lose out.

As Dan has pointed out, AMD is as bad as nVidia, they are no saint. So why sacrifice value for money when in reality, none of these companies has any room for you to even begin talking about moral and ethics.
 
TL: DR- OP is trying to act responsibly and getting mocked for it. You who are doing that are the problem.

Unless the OP applies the same "moral standard" to all purchases then this is nothing more than attention grabbing and hypocritical posturing. Is he using AMD chips instead of Intel? Linux instead of Windows? I would guess not.
 
The thing I find interesting in this thread is the OP wants to take a stand, vote with his wallet, not support (or support the least) the type of company that is dishonest. He is trying to be a consumer who doesn't support behavior that he finds morally offensive. Whether AMD or nVidia is worse than the other isn't my point here. What I see is people mocking him for trying to make a choice that reflects his values. Mocking the very concept that we should live our lives trying to support whatever person or organization that we feel has better values.

I actively try to support the company that I find least evil. I would like to say the 'best' companies, but I am a little too jaded to think that any of them are saints. For instance I avoid (unless there are no other viable options) buying ASUS products because their warranty is completely unreliable at best. They make quality products and often very innovative along with acceptable pricing, but they have horrible customer support despite what they claim on the website and product package. There are actually quite a few companies that I try to avoid because there is no honesty at all, only talking heads and PR departments scripting what they feel we want to hear. And whether or not I feel the same way about nVidia I applaud the OP for trying to make a moral choice.

TL: DR- OP is trying to act responsibly and getting mocked for it. You who are doing that are the problem.


Agreed. The culture of this forum is just not the place for a mature conversation about ethical practices in computing.

Really the OP should have recognized that most of the people who post here are not able to handle such a conversation and not have posted here at all. There are other places to talk about this.
 
Agreed. The culture of this forum is just not the place for a mature conversation about ethical practices in computing.

Really the OP should have recognized that most of the people who post here are not able to handle such a conversation and not have posted here at all. There are other places to talk about this.

Alternatively he could have engaged in a mature discussion without his first falling into hyperbole and stupid statements.
 
Alternatively he could have engaged in a mature discussion without his first falling into hyperbole and stupid statements.

Well that's also a good point. If he took one look at the recent purchases thread in GM he would know not reference fox news in a negative light around here.
 
Now ideally I would have bought an R9 290x Lightning but due to it's high heat output I'm looking for a less power hungry card. So despite nVidia's unethical shenangians of 3.5Gb, Gameworks and others I'm considering an nvidia card. My only problem is, should I vote with my dollars and support a neo-Appleistic company that obviously has no problem with pulling same lies and bs that Fox news is famous for.

Voting with your wallet is what companies understand, they only exist for profit after all. If there were more than 1 alternative to having to deal with a company like nvidia it would be awesome, unfortunately there is only one alternative left now... and that is AMD.

In the case of gameworks, developers know how shady it is. Now the good news is consumers are learning about it and starting to see it too. If you give money and support a company you deem unethical, then you have to question your own ethics for supporting it ESPECIALLY when you now know better before hand.

Same goes to the developers who sell out and use these practices.

The thing I find interesting in this thread is the OP wants to take a stand, vote with his wallet, not support (or support the least) the type of company that is dishonest. He is trying to be a consumer who doesn't support behavior that he finds morally offensive. Whether AMD or nVidia is worse than the other isn't my point here. What I see is people mocking him for trying to make a choice that reflects his values. Mocking the very concept that we should live our lives trying to support whatever person or organization that we feel has better values.

I actively try to support the company that I find least evil. I would like to say the 'best' companies, but I am a little too jaded to think that any of them are saints. For instance I avoid (unless there are no other viable options) buying ASUS products because their warranty is completely unreliable at best. They make quality products and often very innovative along with acceptable pricing, but they have horrible customer support despite what they claim on the website and product package. There are actually quite a few companies that I try to avoid because there is no honesty at all, only talking heads and PR departments scripting what they feel we want to hear. And whether or not I feel the same way about nVidia I applaud the OP for trying to make a moral choice.

TL: DR- OP is trying to act responsibly and getting mocked for it. You who are doing that are the problem.

I'll +1 this also. Unfortunately you have to expect this on the internet; either from people with vested interest in doing so, just trolling, or the bizarre quasi-tribal fanboy-ism from some people.


Agreed. The culture of this forum is just not the place for a mature conversation about ethical practices in computing.

Really the OP should have recognized that most of the people who post here are not able to handle such a conversation and not have posted here at all. There are other places to talk about this.

I tend to agree, but sometimes with the proper ignores, and people not constantly quoting obvious trolling in their replies, it can be a good discussion.
 
The consumers are voting with their vallets:
bNqJYgA.png




/Thread.
 

If you have to go that far back to get ATi then I dunno what to say...

NVidia had

1. issued drivers that killed cards
2. released a card that has memory size issues
3. released cards that they knew had manufacturing defects
4. got caught cheating on 3dmark (off rails issue)
5. laptop cards cannot overclock anymore

and the list does on and on and on... Oh, and lets not forget them ripping off 3DFx and then suing them into oblivion....
 
Now ideally I would have bought an R9 290x Lightning but due to it's high heat output I'm looking for a less power hungry card. So despite nVidia's unethical shenangians of 3.5Gb, Gameworks and others I'm considering an nvidia card.

You need a card that produces less heat. You are angry at Nvidia for being unethical, and you are angry at AMD for making their card run much hotter.

You will likely make an emotional choice based on which company you think will make you less angry, and come up with a post-hoc rational justification for the decision, because that is what consumers do.

If you want to attempt to ditch the emotions and make a rational choice, ignore the anger. Maybe you can do that, maybe you can't. Are you able to imagine which card you would choose if you made the choice without anger?
 
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