Windows 10: Your thoughts so far?

If you change enough hardware to trigger a need to reactivate, you make a phone call to Microsoft and explain the situation - a phone call, that's it. It even says as much in the Windows 10 FAQ.
Have you had the "pleasure" of calling them for this issue?

I have and here's how it went down...I called them up, the first tech tried to change the product ID manually, transferred to a higher level tech, that tech tried to have me use a new key, transferred to a higher level tech. That tech actually RDP'ed into my computer, tried all the things I'd already done, all the things the previous tech had done, and then concluded with telling me to go to the forums...and there was nothing more she could do.

My desktop remains unactivated. I'll go through starting from 8.1 and reinstalling 10 after I replace the motherboard this weekend. I'm keeping my fingers crossed it's as easy as that but so far it's not been anything even remotely close to what people on here seem to be parroting from the FAQ without the direct experience I've had.
 
I never said it would be easy, or comfortable, or they're gonna hold your hand over it. I simply stated that's how it's done, like it or not. I've read the horror stories of calling for support, not just Microsoft, and I've been a "bastard operator from Hell" myself actually so in that respect I know what people will have to deal with. Even so, that's how it gets done.

As for me calling, no, I've never called Microsoft for Windows issues, not once in 30+ years of using their products, I have no reason to since I can solve them on my own. I did call to get a mouse replaced once but that was to their hardware division.
 
But that's exactly how it's supposed to work: we're licensing the right to use Windows, none of us own it except Microsoft, it's pretty simple to comprehend that aspect of things. Windows 10 comes with 30 days of downgrade rights - the reason is because some folks are obviously going to have issues with it from either a personal perspective (they can't stand it at all) or perhaps a hardware issue (something doesn't support the OS or your hardware is dead/pooched/defective or you try it on your current hardware and decide nope, you need a better machine so you go get one or build one), and so on.

It's practically another 30 day "grace period" to see if Windows 10 fits your needs and requirements and if not, you can get rid of it before being locked into the new upgraded license - I say new upgraded license because Windows 10 is being offered for 1 year as an upgrade only, that's the offer Microsoft is making to people plain and simple: it's free, as an upgrade on top of a legit activated license of Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 and after that first year if people want it they're going be paying for it.

The problem though is when we want to do a motherboard upgrade for example. If our systems are now being fingerprinted, and our 7/8 licenses are being consumed by Windows 10, how do we actually transfer the license to a freshly upgraded computer? HOW DO I PROVE THAT I AM ME? (LOL)
 
I never said it would be easy, or comfortable, or they're gonna hold your hand over it. I simply stated that's how it's done, like it or not. I've read the horror stories of calling for support, not just Microsoft, and I've been a "bastard operator from Hell" myself actually so in that respect I know what people will have to deal with. Even so, that's how it gets done.

As for me calling, no, I've never called Microsoft for Windows issues, not once in 30+ years of using their products, I have no reason to since I can solve them on my own. I did call to get a mouse replaced once but that was to their hardware division.
OK, well if you want to argue just to argue you can do that with someone else in the thread.

For everyone else, the reality of the situation is I followed the FAQ and called in to tech support to activate windows 10 on my desktop and when tech support couldn't activate it manually, or even with a new key, they told me sorry but it's an unresolvable problem.

Not an issue of it being easy, comfortable, or holding my hand, but rather an issue that the technician stated that Windows 10 no longer allows switching product keys from one computer to the next like we could do with 7 through 8.1.

I nearly went through the same issue with my laptop a few hours ago but luckily was able to resolve that through the terminal. I didn't switch any components on that one, though, simply tried to do a fresh install.
 
So far so good, no issues at all. Of corse had to reinstall the Nvidia drivers. Had an issue with the VIA audio drivers but upon reboot the new version was installed via Windows Update.

Not sure about the start menu.. I will likly use StartIsBack.

IMO Startisback is better than start10 and it's cheaper!

http://startisback.com/
 
The problem though is when we want to do a motherboard upgrade for example. If our systems are now being fingerprinted, and our 7/8 licenses are being consumed by Windows 10, how do we actually transfer the license to a freshly upgraded computer? HOW DO I PROVE THAT I AM ME? (LOL)

You call Microsoft, they'll probably ask you for that Windows 7/8/8.1 key and then pull up the record for it, it'll show that it's been upgraded to Windows 10 and then you go from there.

They do keep records, you know, all this stuff is tied together. I have one client that had a machine long ago I built for him and he bought Windows 2000 Professional for it, the retail copy. Then he upgraded the hardware and we moved it to Windows XP Professional with the upgrade version. Then he upgraded the hardware again when Vista came out and we installed the Vista upgrade, then he did it yet again for Windows 7 and we upgraded him again, then 8, then 8.1 and just yesterday he got his new ugpraded hardware and bumped it to Windows 10 using (yep you guessed it) the Windows 10 upgrade offer.

In between each one he's never needed to call Microsoft to do this stuff and he's never asked me to do it either, it's just worked from machine to machine to machine, but if needed he would call MIcrosoft and get it situated without any issues.

Seriously, nothing has changed since XP came out and activation became a reality. It works pretty much the same way to this day - one license per device = one activation per device, I don't get why people still haven't really grasped this concept.

If you have some issue that requires you to fix things or you even just want a better PC, calling Microsoft to see what happens is really the only solution - or you could go out and buy another license, I suppose.
 
Not an issue of it being easy, comfortable, or holding my hand, but rather an issue that the technician stated that Windows 10 no longer allows switching product keys from one computer to the next like we could do with 7 through 8.1.

That technician was basically incorrect, but you'll figure that out when the time comes (if it ever does). Microsoft is not slamming a door in people's faces, they know people have hardware troubles, they know sometimes they want to upgrade the physical hardware to something faster offering more performance.

They also aren't seriously expecting people to go out and buy a copy of Windows 10 with every upgrade done with a piece of hardware each time such upgrades are done, either, hence calling them.

It can be done, it will be done, just as it's been done since the day XP was released, nothing in that respect has changed.
 
Ok, so I've successfully upgraded a Dell Studio 1535 from Windows 7 Ultimate (Dell OEM) to Windows 10 Pro and activated properly as well.
 
Have you had the "pleasure" of calling them for this issue?

I have and here's how it went down...I called them up, the first tech tried to change the product ID manually, transferred to a higher level tech, that tech tried to have me use a new key, transferred to a higher level tech. That tech actually RDP'ed into my computer, tried all the things I'd already done, all the things the previous tech had done, and then concluded with telling me to go to the forums...and there was nothing more she could do.

My desktop remains unactivated. I'll go through starting from 8.1 and reinstalling 10 after I replace the motherboard this weekend. I'm keeping my fingers crossed it's as easy as that but so far it's not been anything even remotely close to what people on here seem to be parroting from the FAQ without the direct experience I've had.

Yea, he is wrong. Going by what I read in another thread you have to reinstall Win7/8.1 and activate it, then install the Win10 upgrade over that. That generates a new hardware ID tied to your new hardware, which is stored online.
 
Yea, he is wrong. Going by what I read in another thread you have to reinstall Win7/8.1 and activate it, then install the Win10 upgrade over that. That generates a new hardware ID tied to your new hardware, which is stored online.

If you do that, you end up with the same hash you got the first time because the Product Key for Windows 7/8/8.1 is the same one - the activation hash is created with a multitude of information: the hardware in the machine (the mobo being the biggest factor because of the multiple components), the CPU, the RAM, the hard drive serial number is part of it, and so on along with the Product Key all thrown into a formula that generates the hash.

Your assumption is that you can just clean install Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 and get a new activation and a new hardware ID for the hardware hash and it doesn't work that because you already activated Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 on that hardware previously with the PRODUCT KEY which is still the same. THE PRODUCT KEY IS PART OF ACTIVATION AND ONCE YOU USE A KEY FOR ACTIVATION ON SPECIFIC HARDWARE YOU CAN'T DO IT AGAIN - YOU HAVE TO CALL MICROSOFT AND GET ANOTHER KEY which is what I and other people are trying to get you to grasp.

If you reinstall Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 on the same machine 10 times in a row you'll get the same activation hash because the Product Key is the same across them (as well as the hardware). If you then upgrade those ten installations to Windows 10 they'll all have the same hardware hash for activation too because it's the same machine - nothing has changed, and each time it's using the same Product Key for activation.

Just replacing some hardware and then reinstalling Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 doesn't change the activation hash - that requires a change in hardware as well.

But guess what - if you change the hardware enough to trigger a need to re-activate using a new Product Key then you STILL have to call Microsoft which is exactly the case you're trying to rationalize.

You're running in circles, man, seriously.
 
Hate it. I lasted a full day before reverting back to 8.1. It's too clunky, too slow, and is a visual and navigational nightmare.
 
But guess what - if you change the hardware enough to trigger a need to re-activate using a new Product Key then you STILL have to call Microsoft which is exactly the case you're trying to rationalize.
I'm speaking from experience and you're talking about things you think you know based on how it worked in the past.

What rezerekted wrote is correct. What you wrote is wrong.

I had to do exactly what rezerekted said and then change the product ID under 8.1 and *then* update to 10. There is no way to change the product ID in Windows 10. They don't even give you a unique key...everyone in this thread can verify this by running something like Magic Jelly Bean and discovering their key.
 
I'm speaking from experience and you're talking about things you think you know based on how it worked in the past.

What rezerekted wrote is correct. What you wrote is wrong.

I had to do exactly what rezerekted said and then change the product ID under 8.1 and *then* update to 10. There is no way to change the product ID in Windows 10. They don't even give you a unique key...everyone in this thread can verify this by running something like Magic Jelly Bean and discovering their key.

The key that turns up with Windows 10 will be effectively the same key for everyone (if they've done a proper upgrade, that is) which is why they don't matter anymore - only the hardware hash does which is where the activation comes from. Changing the "product ID" in Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 means a new Product Key is generated because those two items are intertwined, they always have been. Here's a decent explanation of the process:

http://www.gohacking.com/how-windows-product-activation-works/

The Product Key is an algorithmic construct which when coupled with the hardware hash, activation data, and other aspects results in a "unique" product ID (which is the hardware hash) for the given machine, there's nothing secret or special about this - the process is still the same that it's been since XP was released and activation became the norm for how things are done 13 years ago.

When you "changed the product ID under 8.1" what you did was cause Windows to generate a new totally unique activation which was accepted for the Windows 10 upgrade, it's not magic, it's not sorcery, it's just how it works and there's nothing unique about the process. There's no need for a "Windows 10 key" because it's meant to be dare I say REQUIRED to be installed as an upgrade on top of Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 at this point in time before you can do anything with it at all.

You can't do any clean installs of Windows 10 UNTIL YOU DO THE UPGRADE FIRST - the upgrade doesn't require you to have a Product Key for Windows 10 because it's using the Product Key and activated installation of Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 to work with. AFTER you do the upgrade on a legit activated installation of Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 you're free to clean install anytime you want and there won't be a "Windows 10 Product Key" because Microsoft isn't using the Product Key to handle the activation anymore - they're using the hardware hash they've already stored on their servers.

Product Keys are pretty much rendered irrelevant and moot all in one action now and there won't be any need for them so you won't see them being passed around like previous times. The unique hardware hash for each individual machine is "the Product Key" nowadays with Windows 10, basically. The hardware hash has already been generated for your hardware and Microsoft has it stored - changing the so called "product ID" for 8.1 doesn't change that and it's why Windows 10 was activated when it gets compared to what they've got sitting there waiting to be checked against.
 
OK so upgrade first so your hardware hash goes to ms then a clean install will activate automatically....
 
OK so upgrade first so your hardware hash goes to ms then a clean install will activate automatically....

Precisely. Windows 10 is being given away free as an upgrade so that's how it must be installed that first time. If you're happy with that upgrade and it has no issues, keep on using it but, if at any time AFTER that first required upgrade installation you want to clean install, you can, whenever you want and you don't have to put in the key ever because it'll activate against the hash Microsoft has stored on their end as long as it's the same hardware - make some significant alteration and it will require a re-activation because of the changed hardware hash so then you call Microsoft and handle it.
 
What exactly about W10 can't you tolerate. W8 was a more refined W7 ( sans metro ) and W10 is a more refined W8. The W7 people are starting to sound like the 60 year olds that live out in the sticks refusing to let go of 98SE/XP.

This.
 
The key that turns up with Windows 10 will be effectively the same key for everyone (if they've done a proper upgrade, that is) which is why they don't matter anymore - only the hardware hash does which is where the activation comes from. Changing the "product ID" in Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 means a new Product Key is generated because those two items are intertwined, they always have been. Here's a decent explanation of the process:

http://www.gohacking.com/how-windows-product-activation-works/

The Product Key is an algorithmic construct which when coupled with the hardware hash, activation data, and other aspects results in a "unique" product ID (which is the hardware hash) for the given machine, there's nothing secret or special about this - the process is still the same that it's been since XP was released and activation became the norm for how things are done 13 years ago.

When you "changed the product ID under 8.1" what you did was cause Windows to generate a new totally unique activation which was accepted for the Windows 10 upgrade, it's not magic, it's not sorcery, it's just how it works and there's nothing unique about the process. There's no need for a "Windows 10 key" because it's meant to be dare I say REQUIRED to be installed as an upgrade on top of Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 at this point in time before you can do anything with it at all.

You can't do any clean installs of Windows 10 UNTIL YOU DO THE UPGRADE FIRST - the upgrade doesn't require you to have a Product Key for Windows 10 because it's using the Product Key and activated installation of Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 to work with. AFTER you do the upgrade on a legit activated installation of Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 you're free to clean install anytime you want and there won't be a "Windows 10 Product Key" because Microsoft isn't using the Product Key to handle the activation anymore - they're using the hardware hash they've already stored on their servers.

Product Keys are pretty much rendered irrelevant and moot all in one action now and there won't be any need for them so you won't see them being passed around like previous times. The unique hardware hash for each individual machine is "the Product Key" nowadays with Windows 10, basically. The hardware hash has already been generated for your hardware and Microsoft has it stored - changing the so called "product ID" for 8.1 doesn't change that and it's why Windows 10 was activated when it gets compared to what they've got sitting there waiting to be checked against.
You're not describing anything we don't know. In fact, you basically repeated what we already wrote with more know-it-all bullshit laden through it.

The simple fact of the matter is once you get a product ID and then create a unique hash for it, that unique hash will only work with that hardware configuration.

As soon as you upgrade your motherboard it will look like a new computer to MS.
Under the old setup you called in, gave them your product ID, told them to transfer it from one computer to a new one, and then got a new product ID.

There's no way to do this anymore with Windows 10...or at least not with these upgrades. Maybe a full retail version will be different.

In any case, in order to transfer the license to a new hardware setup you effectively have to reinstall Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 and *then* go through the process of calling MS and generating a new, valid product ID for the current hardware configuration.

Then update that install to Windows 10 and getting a new hash.


Now, there could be a slim possibility that everyone here is wrong in what they read, that all three tiers of MS support were wrong that they could not give me a new key, they could not give me a new ID, they could only instruct me to start over from 7, 8, or 8.1 and go through the typical process, and then they simply wasted about 6 hours of our time (expensive for MS, to say the least), and then Tiberian is the only one standing amongst this sea of ignorance with all the right answers. If that's your position, have at it.

The rest of us, however, are going with the odds that all of what we have learned is correct and *you* are misinformed and speculating based off how things *used* to work.

The real concern comes after either 1 month when the 7, 8, or 8.1 keys might no longer work, or when Windows 10 is no longer free after the first year.

All the other stuff you wrote was simply a long-winded way of arguing that we're wrong for saying you need to generate a new license from a 7, 8, or 8.1 install every time you change hardware and then you saying the same thing anyway.
 
OK so upgrade first so your hardware hash goes to ms then a clean install will activate automatically....
That's supposed to be how it works but it didn't work like that for me on my laptop.

Try it and you might get lucky. If you don't post in here and if I don't see it and respond PM me and I'll describe the steps I had to take to get it activated.


I changed some hardware on my desktop and haven't been able to activate it. The key is saying it's blocked. I'll wait until after I replace the motherboard this weekend to clean install from 8.1 and see if I can generate a new hash.

Two different scenarios that should have been routine and/or automatic but neither went smoothly. Either of these scenarios are likely to present a greater problem when Windows 10 is no longer being offered for free. Perhaps that's why the conflicting releases state that this offer is only good for the life of the device. Many people were confused how a retail license could only be valid for the life of a single device.

If the retail keys don't work after a month, or if you have to clean install and upgrade to 10 after a year but it's no longer an option, that would explain the discrepancy.

But bottom line is to try and do a clean install and see if you encounter any problems like I did. Now is the time to get the teething issues out of the way so you know what to expect in the future.
 
I can't tell if you're confusing Product ID for Product Key, honestly. When you provide a Product ID to Microsoft, all they do is punch that into the database which then pulls up the Product Key that was used to create it (the Key is part of the hash which results in the ID) so, again, like I've said before, if you call in about a Windows 10 issue what they'll request from you - since you can't give them a Product Key or a Product ID at least presently - will be the Product Key for the qualifying product you upgraded to Windows 10 meaning your Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 Product Key.

You give them a 7, 8, or 8.1 Product Key which is attached to the license you just upgraded with Windows 10 and they've got all the information they require at that moment.

Is it that tough to understand?

As for clean installs, I've done nearly 115 of them in the past two weeks, more each day, never had any issues with them because I was doing the required update first - and not once have I had to put in a Product Key (which doesn't exist to begin with anyway since it's not part of the process anymore).
 
The problem though is when we want to do a motherboard upgrade for example. If our systems are now being fingerprinted, and our 7/8 licenses are being consumed by Windows 10, how do we actually transfer the license to a freshly upgraded computer? HOW DO I PROVE THAT I AM ME? (LOL)

Your systems have been being fingerprinted since the XP days. I had to call because I couldn't activate back then after a bunch of hardware changes. After too many hardware changes/reinstalls using the same XP key the servers (5 in a certain time period if I recall)refused to activate if the hash doesn't match. At the time it was a relatively painless call.
 
I can't tell if you're confusing Product ID for Product Key, honestly. When you provide a Product ID to Microsoft, all they do is punch that into the database which then pulls up the Product Key that was used to create it (the Key is part of the hash which results in the ID) so, again, like I've said before, if you call in about a Windows 10 issue what they'll request from you - since you can't give them a Product Key or a Product ID at least presently - will be the Product Key for the qualifying product you upgraded to Windows 10 meaning your Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 Product Key.

You give them a 7, 8, or 8.1 Product Key which is attached to the license you just upgraded with Windows 10 and they've got all the information they require at that moment.

Is it that tough to understand?

As for clean installs, I've done nearly 115 of them in the past two weeks, more each day, never had any issues with them because I was doing the required update first - and not once have I had to put in a Product Key (which doesn't exist to begin with anyway since it's not part of the process anymore).
There is nothing tough to understand about this at all. To put it bluntly, you're wrong.

First of all, your 115+ installs over the past two weeks were Technical Preview installations so you should not be sitting here trying to talk down to someone explaining how this is working (or failing to work) during retail launch :rolleyes:

Secondly, when you give MS your Product ID they can check it and verify that it was generated from a valid license but they can't generate a new hardware hash for you.

They can't give you a *new* product ID to activate Windows 10 on new hardware. You have to reinstall Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 and get a new Product ID with your new hardware with your only product key. Nice try to throw shade, but we've all been using Windows long enough to know the freaking difference and there was no confusion in anyone's mind about what I was talking about except for you because you are convinced that no one else in this discussion, including MS technical support, could possibly know more than you :eek:

Your systems have been being fingerprinted since the XP days. I had to call because I couldn't activate back then after a bunch of hardware changes. After too many hardware changes/reinstalls using the same XP key the servers (5 in a certain time period if I recall)refused to activate if the hash doesn't match. At the time it was a relatively painless call.
The difference between XP and Windows 10 is that in earlier versions you could put a new product ID in and activate Windows. Now the product ID is based off your previous install and there isn't any way (yet) to change the product ID*.

*to be more precise, there is a way to change the product ID via command line but when we did that the hash didn't match the hardware hash in store and then my license came back "blocked" for too many installs. That's when the technicians became stuck and recommended that I start from 8.1 again.
 
There is nothing tough to understand about this at all. To put it bluntly, you're wrong.

First of all, your 115+ installs over the past two weeks were Technical Preview installations so you should not be sitting here trying to talk down to someone explaining how this is working (or failing to work) during retail launch :rolleyes:

Secondly, when you give MS your Product ID they can check it and verify that it was generated from a valid license but they can't generate a new hardware hash for you.

They can't give you a *new* product ID to activate Windows 10 on new hardware. You have to reinstall Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 and get a new Product ID with your new hardware with your only product key. Nice try to throw shade, but we've all been using Windows long enough to know the freaking difference and there was no confusion in anyone's mind about what I was talking about except for you because you are convinced that no one else in this discussion, including MS technical support, could possibly know more than you :eek:

First: The 115 installs are build 10240, aka the RTM build, from the moment it was sent out, so no, in this case you actually are wrong with that assumption.

Second: Product IDs aren't used for activations, Product Keys are, and the Product Keys are what create Product IDs, so again, you're wrong. A Product ID doesn't exist till a Product Key has been entered during installation which then gets tossed into a mathematical formula along with hardware device IDs and other information which eventually creaes the Product ID for that specific hardware the OS is installed on.

Third: The Product ID cannot be changed - in doing so the Product Key would change as well because they're mathematically related and if you were capable of altering the Product ID it would automagically trigger a need to re-activate. There are tools available that claim to change the Product ID (what's shown on System Properties for 7/8/8.1 but all they change is what's shown on the properties page - the actual Product ID in the Registry is still the same because it's locked in with the activation).

As for Microsoft in-house technical support, I did that for 22 years, thanks, and retired very well off because of it.
 
The product ID I'm referring to is comprised of the 9 boxes of 6 digit numbers that you provide to microsoft when your hardware won't activate and they respond with 9 boxes of 6 digit numbers.

I'm using product key to refer to the license key that I put into the installation box when it asks for my license. I'm sure they key and ID are mathematically related to one another, but I've never needed a new product key to reactivate my computer on new hardware and I have activated new hardware with a new product ID after calling MS in previous windows versions.

Again, you're making this out to be more complicated than it is simply because you have convinced yourself that no one else could possibly be right and you could possibly be wrong (or, as it looks here, you're being pedantic and not actually disagreeing with what we wrote but arguing that you're saying something different because of some minutiae of detail).


Bottom line: you can't call MS and get those magic 9 boxes anymore. You have to start from an earlier install and do an entirely new upgrade to 10 on the new hardware in order to get a legitimate hash.
 
How does MS manage to 'develop' things for the worse all the time? It's like they're trying to invent ways to annoy customers more instead of making things easier. Some conspiracists have said that the ultimate goal of powers that be is to eliminate home building completely and force people into buying locked down OEM hardware.
 
magic 9 boxes...

Oh, so you mean the Installation ID which is an entirely different thing altogether from the Product ID (which looks like 00371-OEM-8982711-00537) or Product Key (which looks like R34DB-37W33-ND4HL-L1N3S-PH00L).

And you think I'm the one that's confused, right, right.

For the record in Windows 10, the same method works - open an Administrative Command Prompt and type:

Code:
slmgr.vbs /dlv

and you'll see the Installation ID on the dialogue box that appears.

Also, as noted on the image below, the Product Key for everyone using the Windows 10 upgrade offer will end up being the same, hence me telling people there's zero reason to extract it - it can't be used (typed in) to activate Windows 10 cleanly hence you having to do the upgrade FIRST which negates the need to enter a key for clean installs. It's the hardware hash that counts now, nothing else matters. Even after you do a clean install - which that screenshot is an image of, a clean install of Windows 10 on my laptop done after a proper upgrade on top of Windows 7 Professional - the Product Key is STILL the same and will be the same for all Windows 10 upgrade users even if they too decide to do a clean installation on the same hardware. It's the hardware hash that matters and only that.

The 3V66T thing was one of the last keys used for the Insider preview builds aka VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T and it's the standard key in Windows 10 that everyone will pull out or extract, it's meaningless now because of the hardware hash.



B00nie:

Who the hell knows, at least Windows 7 still works. ;)
 
As for clean installs, I've done nearly 115 of them in the past two weeks, more each day, never had any issues with them because I was doing the required update first - and not once have I had to put in a Product Key (which doesn't exist to begin with anyway since it's not part of the process anymore).

But you have done clean installs on the same hardware. We are talking about a clean install on a new mb after the hardware hash has already been created on a different mb. You are saying we just call Micrsoft and tell them we have a new mb and they will activate it? How do they activate it if the license is already tied to old mb and there is no activation key to input?
 
But you have done clean installs on the same hardware. We are talking about a clean install on a new mb after the hardware hash has already been created on a different mb.

New mobo means a new hash which means a new activation required - there are some instances where motherboards have been changed and people didn't have to contact Microsoft but that's a very rare thing.

The basic gist is still this: you can't clean install Windows 10 right now until you've done an upgrade install first, period, end of story, there's no getting around it, ever. Microsoft is not providing legit actual unique Product Keys (except through MSDN) so that means the only way you can clean install Windows 10 at this moment is do an upgrade install first on a given computer, wipe it clean and then clean install Windows 10 on the same machine meaning no hardware changes.

If you then yank out the motherboard and you change it and then fire up Windows 10 it'll bork on the activation because you changed the most major component and you'll have to contact Microsoft to get it re-activated.

You folks keep running in circles, I've explained it enough so that people understand what's going on - upgrade installation first, after which you can clean install without the need for a Product Key. If you alter the hardware configuration after that is done (upgrade or clean installation) you'll more than likely - except in very rare situations as just noted - have to call Microsoft to get a new activation when it balks because of the hardware change.

It really is quite simple.



You are saying we just call Micrsoft and tell them we have a new mb and they will activate it? How do they activate it if the license is already tied to old mb and there is no activation key to input?

See post #146 above yours on how to get your Installation ID.
 
Ok, so they issue a new product key when you phone them, that is the key bit of info you never told me before. Can't blame me if I keep coming across conflicting information. If Microsoft had explained all of this clearly in the first place there would not be so much speculation and confusion.

BTW, I've seen people with failed Win10 installations. Would not upgrade over their Win8.1 install and they had to wipe their PC and do a fresh install of Win8.1 then upgrade to Win10. I can't afford having that happen to me so am holding off doing the Win10 install for now.
 
Ok, so they issue a new product key when you phone them, that is the key bit of info you never told me before. Can't blame me if I keep coming across conflicting information. If Microsoft had explained all of this clearly in the first place there would not be so much speculation and confusion.

BTW, I've seen people with failed Win10 installations. Would not upgrade over their Win8.1 install and they had to wipe their PC and do a fresh install of Win8.1 then upgrade to Win10. I can't afford having that happen to me so am holding off doing the Win10 install for now.
They won't give you a new activation because they can't; not a new installation ID, not a product ID, nor a product key. That was my scenario and MS could not give me a new key.
They actually tried. They tried a new installation ID and they tried different licenses, but the only thing that matters is the hardware hash, which they can't alter. The only way for the servers to get a hardware hash is if you start over from a previous version of Windows.

And if you think about it, that's the only way their servers could build the hash so how would they activate a new install without you doing that?

I never said Tiberian was confused, I said he was wrong and the thing he is wrong about is that this is like all the other versions of Windows where you just call them up and get a new code. I also said he was simply being pedantic about minutia because I'm fairly certain everyone else understood I what I was referring to as the installation ID is the only thing you ever give MS to get a new activation.

But it doesn't matter, he's the one going round and round and not clearing anything up because he's wrong: if you call up Microsoft they will tell you to reinstall windows 8.1 and start over.

The problem being raised here is what happens in a month when Windows 8.1 key won't be usable anymore or in a year when the upgrades are no longer offered.

Tiberian's speculation is that Windows 10 will be offered free to everyone as a clean installation but as far as I know that's not been confirmed anywhere.
 
If you then yank out the motherboard and you change it and then fire up Windows 10 it'll bork on the activation because you changed the most major component and you'll have to contact Microsoft to get it re-activated.

If you alter the hardware configuration after that is done (upgrade or clean installation) you'll more than likely - except in very rare situations as just noted - have to call Microsoft to get a new activation when it balks because of the hardware change.
This is incorrect information.

When you contact Microsoft they will not be able to activate your new hardware.
They will tell you to reinstall Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 and then activate the license on that new hardware, and then upgrade again to Windows 10.

They can't give you anything to put into your computer that will activate it and they can't manually activate your new hardware hash.

At least, this is what they told me when I tried to activate on my new hardware.
This came from the techs, who you said were wrong based on your experience as a tech in the past and performing hundreds of installs since XP. However, they (three separate techs) claimed that this was now being handled differently and that phone activations were no longer an option for Windows 10. If they were wrong or lying it doesn't matter because they couldn't or wouldn't activate my installation even though I watched them try various ways manually while they were RDP'ed into my desktop (I was on hold, transferred, and troubleshooting for approximately 6 hours with them all). I was told I have to reinstall Windows 8.1 if I want to activate it again. Arguing with them and telling them they're wrong because Tiberian from [H] says it isn't so isn't going to get me or anyone else anywhere.
 
So far only have done the upgrade on a Dell notebook. Did the free upgrade first with the Dell OEM HDD that it came with. Then I created a bootable media Windows 10 USB SD... put a new Samsung EVO 500GB EVO storage drive into the Dell notebook and did a fresh clean install and so far everything is working great. Every looks legit and I didn't have to call MS to request a new key... So far running smooth and pleased that I have the latest and greatest OS from MS. Pleased.
 
Tiberian's speculation is that Windows 10 will be offered free to everyone as a clean installation but as far as I know that's not been confirmed anywhere.

What, you don't take the word of the guy in charge of Windows 10, Gabe Aul? Mind you he stated this a few days short of two full months ago:

From Gabe Aul said:
Once you upgrade W10 w/ the free upgrade offer you will able to clean reinstall Windows 10 on same device any time

Pretty sure he knows more about Windows than even I do so I'm gonna take his word for it. But if that's not good enough, here's Microsoft directly in the Windows 10 FAQ:

Can I perform a clean install using the Free upgrade?

No, it will require that you are running a previous qualifying version and start the upgrade from within the qualifying version. You can initiate a clean install after completing the Upgrade.

Having said that, if what you want is a pure clean installation without ever having had to upgrade or ever facing any kind of upgrade-to-clean-install scenario then you're going to have to pay for a Windows 10 license. As it stands right now, the free upgrade can become a clean install on the same hardware without monetary cost which is all I've been saying since day one (which was weeks ago actually when build 10240 went RTM).

With respect to me saying Microsoft techs are/were wrong, I never said that, so don't put words in my mouth as the case happens to be. Regardless, I just got off the phone with a Tier 3 support rep for Microsoft (an old friend of mine actually) and he said while things are different to a degree now, Microsoft isn't going to be complete hardasses about people having hardware failures which is what I've been saying all along. If you do eventually have a hardware failure of some kind and you have to build out basically a new machine to get up and running again - even if it's just the mobo that gets replaced - and you call in with your issues he stated that the first tier of tech support you reach is instructed to say "Start over again..." more often than not this is enough for customers to handle the issue on their end by reinstalling the OS they had used as the qualifying upgrade product (7, 8, or 8.1).

If that doesn't work and the customer persists, it will escalate and then they will eventually be handled by someone that can do a reset on the activation for the license they used to do the upgrade - they don't get a Windows 10 activation reset because the license was an upgrade license to start with (which could then be used to clean install on the same hardware because the hash would be identical).

If you think Microsoft is going to slam the door in the face of every person that upgrades after the fact or actually has some hardware failure that requires them to build out or replace enough components to reactivate the OS - even in spite of their claimed "lifetime of the device" statements - you're just not getting it.

Even in spite of Windows 10 being free of monetary cost, even Microsoft isn't that stupid.
 
If you do that, you end up with the same hash you got the first time because the Product Key for Windows 7/8/8.1 is the same one - the activation hash is created with a multitude of information: the hardware in the machine (the mobo being the biggest factor because of the multiple components), the CPU, the RAM, the hard drive serial number is part of it, and so on along with the Product Key all thrown into a formula that generates the hash.

Your assumption is that you can just clean install Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 and get a new activation and a new hardware ID for the hardware hash and it doesn't work that because you already activated Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 on that hardware previously with the PRODUCT KEY which is still the same. THE PRODUCT KEY IS PART OF ACTIVATION AND ONCE YOU USE A KEY FOR ACTIVATION ON SPECIFIC HARDWARE YOU CAN'T DO IT AGAIN - YOU HAVE TO CALL MICROSOFT AND GET ANOTHER KEY which is what I and other people are trying to get you to grasp.

If you reinstall Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 on the same machine 10 times in a row you'll get the same activation hash because the Product Key is the same across them (as well as the hardware). If you then upgrade those ten installations to Windows 10 they'll all have the same hardware hash for activation too because it's the same machine - nothing has changed, and each time it's using the same Product Key for activation.

Just replacing some hardware and then reinstalling Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 doesn't change the activation hash - that requires a change in hardware as well.

But guess what - if you change the hardware enough to trigger a need to re-activate using a new Product Key then you STILL have to call Microsoft which is exactly the case you're trying to rationalize.

You're running in circles, man, seriously.

if you change your MB under W 7/8.x you will have to reactivate over the phone. Then win 10 should install just fine as your win 7/8.x key is associated with your new hardware hash.... after the 1 year period, it probably will not work
 
What, you don't take the word of the guy in charge of Windows 10, Gabe Aul? Mind you he stated this a few days short of two full months ago:



Pretty sure he knows more about Windows than even I do so I'm gonna take his word for it. But if that's not good enough, here's Microsoft directly in the Windows 10 FAQ:
No one is disputing those claims made by him. I'm not sure if you are intentionally misdirecting the conversation but we have always been talking about issues on devices after hardware changes.

Quoting a point that MS will always allow a clean install on the *same* device is irrelevant to the concerns we've raised here.

Having said that, if what you want is a pure clean installation without ever having had to upgrade or ever facing any kind of upgrade-to-clean-install scenario then you're going to have to pay for a Windows 10 license. As it stands right now, the free upgrade can become a clean install on the same hardware without monetary cost which is all I've been saying since day one (which was weeks ago actually when build 10240 went RTM).

With respect to me saying Microsoft techs are/were wrong, I never said that, so don't put words in my mouth as the case happens to be. Regardless, I just got off the phone with a Tier 3 support rep for Microsoft (an old friend of mine actually) and he said while things are different to a degree now, Microsoft isn't going to be complete hardasses about people having hardware failures which is what I've been saying all along. If you do eventually have a hardware failure of some kind and you have to build out basically a new machine to get up and running again - even if it's just the mobo that gets replaced - and you call in with your issues he stated that the first tier of tech support you reach is instructed to say "Start over again..." more often than not this is enough for customers to handle the issue on their end by reinstalling the OS they had used as the qualifying upgrade product (7, 8, or 8.1).

If that doesn't work and the customer persists, it will escalate and then they will eventually be handled by someone that can do a reset on the activation for the license they used to do the upgrade - they don't get a Windows 10 activation reset because the license was an upgrade license to start with (which could then be used to clean install on the same hardware because the hash would be identical).

If you think Microsoft is going to slam the door in the face of every person that upgrades after the fact or actually has some hardware failure that requires them to build out or replace enough components to reactivate the OS - even in spite of their claimed "lifetime of the device" statements - you're just not getting it.

Even in spite of Windows 10 being free of monetary cost, even Microsoft isn't that stupid.

Does this look like me putting words in your mouth? Is that what you call a direct quote?
That technician was basically incorrect, but you'll figure that out when the time comes (if it ever does). Microsoft is not slamming a door in people's faces, they know people have hardware troubles, they know sometimes they want to upgrade the physical hardware to something faster offering more performance.

As far as I can see, no one here is asking for the ability to do a clean install on new hardware whenever we want. The issue is when someone has a current installation and a hardware failure occurs we should not have to reinstall Windows in order to activate it.

Currently, that's how it stands. As I stated earlier, the techs did not just push me off with boiler plate responses about reinstalling. They spent hours on the issue, trying all sorts of manual workarounds, were RDP'ed into my desktop and finally concluded they would be unable to manually authorize my hardware.

All this time you spent arguing over the issue (and apparently calling up an acquaintance) could have been better spent by simply reproducing the issue I described I went through: a failed hardware component and attempting to contact MS for manual re-activation.

They couldn't do it and your acquaintance stated that "things have changed," which is what the T3 tech told me, as well. I'll consider this conversation to have run its course.

I certainly hope my experience was an anomaly and I'm certainly not throwing shade on MS. I'm only relaying what I went through over the past few days trying to activate Win 10 after a hardware failure and hopefully giving some information to the people asking that specific question. You are simply operating from your knowledge based on past experiences despite multiple people now telling you that some things are being handled differently.

(Incidentally, my desktop is still not activated. If *you'd* like to put your considerable experience to work and help me activate it PM me and I'll allow you to RDP into my desktop and try and get it activated. As it stands I'm going to wait until I RMA the motherboard and then re-install Windows 8.1 in a different partition so I don't have to wipe my Windows 10 install).
 
BTW, for people who want to do a clean install I had a separate set of problems related to my laptop.

When I tried to do a clean install I skipped entering the license figuring I could do it later (or that it wasn't necessary, actually).

After install I had a Home version. I had to follow a number of CLI steps to completely wipe the license from my install but when I tried to enter my Pro license it would stumble for being the wrong version. I can't remember what I did exactly to get it to update to Pro, but I'll look through my web history if anyone runs into that issue.

I don't think I would have had that problem if I had put the license in during install. I'm not exactly sure why it installed as a Home version.
 
After having a pretty easy experience with my machine and my mom's (which she did herself), my wife's machine has been a nightmare.

With both clean installs and upgrade installs is DOES NOT like her GTX680 in combination with a 16x10 Viewsonic. No matter what we've tried it's permanently "out of range" the instant any Nvidia drivers are installed. That's the case for beta drivers, final drivers, and the ones from Windows Update. Other monitors seem to work (only using HDMI or and HDMI adapter) but her DVI-based Viewsonic just won't work. The only thing that does is going back to the default MS VGA video driver.
The default drivers can't adjust the resolution, so she's stuck at 800x600 until some new drivers hit. Going to try a DVI to Display Port today, but I'm not very optimistic.
 
You miss the point.

When people paid big bucks for full versions of Windows, it was so they could move it from machine to machine over the years. This is in contrast to OEM copies that are glued to one machine forever.

For MS to force you to permanently 'consume' that right of transfer to a new machine simply by installing the windows 10 upgrade is bullshit. Free or not.

But that's exactly how it's supposed to work: we're licensing the right to use Windows, none of us own it except Microsoft, it's pretty simple to comprehend that aspect of things. Windows 10 comes with 30 days of downgrade rights - the reason is because some folks are obviously going to have issues with it from either a personal perspective (they can't stand it at all) or perhaps a hardware issue (something doesn't support the OS or your hardware is dead/pooched/defective or you try it on your current hardware and decide nope, you need a better machine so you go get one or build one), and so on.

It's practically another 30 day "grace period" to see if Windows 10 fits your needs and requirements and if not, you can get rid of it before being locked into the new upgraded license - I say new upgraded license because Windows 10 is being offered for 1 year as an upgrade only, that's the offer Microsoft is making to people plain and simple: it's free, as an upgrade on top of a legit activated license of Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 and after that first year if people want it they're going be paying for it.
 
Domingo I have moar:
Media Player Classic Home Cinema? MadVR?
ASIO Drivers
FRAPS
NexusModManager for FalloutNewVegas and Skyrim
TeamSpeak

After having a pretty easy experience with my machine and my mom's (which she did herself), my wife's machine has been a nightmare.

With both clean installs and upgrade installs is DOES NOT like her GTX680 in combination with a 16x10 Viewsonic. No matter what we've tried it's permanently "out of range" the instant any Nvidia drivers are installed. That's the case for beta drivers, final drivers, and the ones from Windows Update. Other monitors seem to work (only using HDMI or and HDMI adapter) but her DVI-based Viewsonic just won't work. The only thing that does is going back to the default MS VGA video driver.
The default drivers can't adjust the resolution, so she's stuck at 800x600 until some new drivers hit. Going to try a DVI to Display Port today, but I'm not very optimistic.

I did a clean install of the Enterprise version on my old Core i7 980x with three GTX 680s in 3D surround with Alienware 3D monitors. Went without a hitch and I was able to install the GeForce Experience tool and latest drivers without problems.
 
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