$340 Audiophile Ethernet Cable Tear Down

BallerX said:
I really hope that is sarcasm. Unless you think your ones and zeros sound better than my ones and zeros.:rolleyes:
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Actually there can be data loss. As the length of cable gets longer and noise gets introduced into the signal your highs and lows in the signal can start to become close in voltage level and noise can start to make a 1 or 0 appear as the other. This is why there are crc checks done on important transfers. Audio converted back and forth with a data cable in between would likely go unnoticed if there was a flipped bit now and then, Think of it as a dust spec on your dvd, your probably never noticed it missed those couple bits when the laser passed over it, but that scratch is now enough corrupted data that it can be seen. Same thing can happen in data cables, it is just less likely because we usually only use short runs of them. But just for fun, take the shielding off your SATA cable, and tape it to a 120v line, you will see how data corruption can occur in digital cables from noise.
 
striker444 said:
Yes, I run cat 7 for 3 PC's in my home. I use these:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...00&IsNodeId=1&Manufactory=2177&bop=And&page=1

I started off with a 1 foot one from my cable modem to router, then changed everything over, the shielding on the connector end and the quality of the cable itself was the best I have ever seen,
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I have of a pair of those myself. Very solid connection. I think one of the important things of any ethernet connection is plug that doesnt wander in the port, that will cause more noise and problems than most other factors.
 
Digital removes most of the consternation of analog. They still fail. Just when they fail, there's only a tiny window of intermittent failure that wouldn't cause you to replace it immediately. So if equipment is not working there's no doubt and no argument with the store, technician, salesman, or whatever. With analog underperforming cable degrades in a way that is requires a large degradation in quality before failure is indisputable.

The magic of digital is that when it fails, failure is likely catastrophic. Unfortunately I think cable providers are transmitting in formats that help them paint over some of the effects of dropped bits and using buffering at the receiving end to fill in bad frames at the cost of throughput and ultimately quality.
 
jpm100 said:
The magic of digital is that when it fails, failure is likely catastrophic. Unfortunately I think cable providers are transmitting in formats that help them paint over some of the effects of dropped bits and using buffering at the receiving end to fill in bad frames at the cost of throughput and ultimately quality.
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HDMI transmissions have no CRC data that allows for a frame to get delayed, when the data chain starts breaking down you will often see "sparkles" in video content which is being displayed. I went through this with numerous long HDMI cables while everyone on the internet was all "Hurr hurr it's digital it either works or it doesn't hurr hurr" :rolleyes:
 
ocellaris said:
HDMI transmissions have no CRC data that allows for a frame to get delayed, when the data chain starts breaking down you will often see "sparkles" in video content which is being displayed. I went through this with numerous long HDMI cables while everyone on the internet was all "Hurr hurr it's digital it either works or it doesn't hurr hurr" :rolleyes:
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It is because most dont actually understand how it works. They think it is digital so it is a 1 or 0. Well yes and no. You actually have 3 states in the wire; high, low, and grounded. For HDMI there is a ~0.6 volt difference between a high and a low, because a low has to be distinguishable from no data and the higher speeds of data require the highs and lows to be closer in voltage to account for rise and fall times of output transistors. The less distance they have to move up or down the sooner the next bit can be sent out. So as data transmissions get faster we will start to see more potential errors and this could become a larger problem.
 
Darunion said:
Actually there can be data loss. As the length of cable gets longer and noise gets introduced into the signal your highs and lows in the signal can start to become close in voltage level and noise can start to make a 1 or 0 appear as the other. This is why there are crc checks done on important transfers. Audio converted back and forth with a data cable in between would likely go unnoticed if there was a flipped bit now and then, Think of it as a dust spec on your dvd, your probably never noticed it missed those couple bits when the laser passed over it, but that scratch is now enough corrupted data that it can be seen. Same thing can happen in data cables, it is just less likely because we usually only use short runs of them. But just for fun, take the shielding off your SATA cable, and tape it to a 120v line, you will see how data corruption can occur in digital cables from noise.
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Please stop.

Ethernet, SATA, and HDMI all use differential signalling. The actually voltage itself is not used to measure 1s and 0s, but the difference in voltage between the two pairs of wires. This is how it is possible to have things like Power over Ethernet. If you were to connect a SATA cable to a 120V AC source (and assuming that we ignore the fact that it will destroy your hard drive and/or your motherboard to do so), you would still be able to send data over it because the 120V would affect both pairs equally.
 
ocellaris said:
HDMI transmissions have no CRC data that allows for a frame to get delayed, when the data chain starts breaking down you will often see "sparkles" in video content which is being displayed. I went through this with numerous long HDMI cables while everyone on the internet was all "Hurr hurr it's digital it either works or it doesn't hurr hurr" :rolleyes:
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You should be using SDI or another coaxial cable for distance runs. HDMI is neither suitable for nor was it designed for long cable runs. It was designed to serve the needs of the media industry in order to force DRM on everyone and is little more than a glorified DVI with audio.
 
damicatz said:
Please stop.

Ethernet, SATA, and HDMI all use differential signalling. The actually voltage itself is not used to measure 1s and 0s, but the difference in voltage between the two pairs of wires. This is how it is possible to have things like Power over Ethernet. If you were to connect a SATA cable to a 120V AC source (and assuming that we ignore the fact that it will destroy your hard drive and/or your motherboard to do so), you would still be able to send data over it because the 120V would affect both pairs equally.
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Please read what I stated. You are so far from how that works please don't post incorrect information.
 
damicatz said:
You should be using SDI or another coaxial cable for distance runs. HDMI is neither suitable for nor was it designed for long cable runs. It was designed to serve the needs of the media industry in order to force DRM on everyone and is little more than a glorified DVI with audio.
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Please direct me to the HDMI -> SDI -> HDMI adapters need to run a HDMI connection longer than six feet between all of my media devices...
 
BallerX said:
I really hope that is sarcasm. Unless you think your ones and zeros sound better than my ones and zeros.:rolleyes:
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Like others have said, things can get scrambled resulting in loss of quality. The error detection (or lack thereof) is often such that it looks to just roll with it. If they had true error counters on your TV showing you might be surprised how poorly all those precious 1s and 0s are retained.

I recently did a sports bar with 60 screens all going through a huge HDMI switch matrix over 300 feet away. There were tons of problems because the contractor decided he'd be a hero and use cheaper cable then what was spec'ed to save money. He though "Well, it's digital, it 1s and 0s, no problem, dummdeedummdumm"... We had to spend twice the amount of time and money trying to fix the problem, things starting getting political, war ensues, etc...

Of course it might've worked had they not placed the racks so far away, but even designers are a little naive thinking all those extenders would work based on the marketing shtick alone, but that's also part of the risk you should consider when dealing with bleeding edge technology, things don't always work out as advertised.
 
Youn said:
Like others have said, things can get scrambled resulting in loss of quality. The error detection (or lack thereof) is often such that it looks to just roll with it. If they had true error counters on your TV showing you might be surprised how poorly all those precious 1s and 0s are retained.

I recently did a sports bar with 60 screens all going through a huge HDMI switch matrix over 300 feet away. There were tons of problems because the contractor decided he'd be a hero and use cheaper cable then what was spec'ed to save money. He though "Well, it's digital, it 1s and 0s, no problem, dummdeedummdumm"... We had to spend twice the amount of time and money trying to fix the problem, things starting getting political, war ensues, etc...

Of course it might've worked had they not placed the racks so far away, but even designers are a little naive thinking all those extenders would work based on the marketing shtick alone, but that's also part of the risk you should consider when dealing with bleeding edge technology, things don't always work out as advertised.
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HDMI is not even close to being specced to run 300 feet. You should be using SDI for those kinds of runs.
 
Quix said:
It's false when it comes to everything. Even solid gold analog audio cables don't outperform cheap copper ones.
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At least the gold ones don't end up getting corroded over the years, which does interfere with the sound quality.
 
defaultluser said:
shielding doesn't add much more than extra cost.
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Depends on how "noisy" the environment you're in is.

Also, while the pair twisting helps reduce the contiguous area immediately affected, it doesn't always stop signal induction. ESPECIALLY over long runs, where an entire cable can act like a giant antenna.
 
audioquest is the worst kind of awful. I purchased a relativetly average audioquest RCA cable for expediency when I purchased a subwoofer from Bestbuy. Everything seemed ok, but ocasionally the sub would start making noise even when the system was off. With a little checking I determined that the audioquest RCA cable was so poorly made that a slight motion of the cable would create a lot of noise (microphonics) and that coupled to the slight oscillation of the subwoofer cabinet created a feedback loop. Monoprice for low cost cables or Blue Jeans Cables if I have specific need.
 
Monoprice are the only cables I buy. Cheap, they work, and there is no distinction whatsoever to the more expensive cables.
 
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I have to say been really impressed by Amazon basics cables.

Shown them to some friends of mine and they've all gone..."That's a really nicely made cable...how much???"
 
Kaitian said:
I didn't know that ethernet was used for audio purposes.
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I know some folks use ethernet cables to wire up their speakers. The main goal being taking advantage of the design to possible external interference. And their is at least some technical merit to this, and the point of it is to not shell out stupid money for snake oil, but to roll your own out of readily available stuff.

This isn't that though, form the description they are talking about streaming audio and saying the data flow in the cable is directional.... I... just fucking wow.
 
Ars used the James Randi Educational Foundation. enuf said. "An Honest Liar" is a good documentary on James Randi and his debunking of charlatans.
 
Jim Kim said:
Ars used the James Randi Educational Foundation. enuf said. "An Honest Liar" is a good documentary on James Randi and his debunking of charlatans.
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What's next, is James Randi go to go into a restaurant and declare that risotto I paid for a few months ago was a waste of $35?!?
 
ocellaris said:
The real sham is now how much effort Ars out into this blind test in an effort to prove people couldn't tell the difference between which network cable carried the data:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...e-340-audiophile-cables-make-no-difference/1/
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lol

Worse (for the Vodka cable) is the companion article:
Expert electrical analysis: $340 audiophile cables test “marginal”
Listeners couldn't distinguish them from spec-failing, garbage-quality cables.

The subheading is pure gold.
 
ocellaris said:
What's next, is James Randi go to go into a restaurant and declare that risotto I paid for a few months ago was a waste of $35?!?
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Maybe. Your comment is very confusing. You might want to read the ars article again.:rolleyes:
 
I've used steel coat hangers for speaker wire and it worked just fine and there has been no difference in sound. I actually wrote this in a review on amazon for some other speaker wire that was ridiculously expensive and i got a shit-ton of hate. Which I expected.
 
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