Raid 1 vs Backup AND Software Raid 1 vs Hardware Raid 1

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doug_7506

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
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Hardware:
First lets start with the hardware/software that I have and am currently using:
Evga x79 sli motherboard
240gb SSD
2 x 3TB Segate 7200rpm
1 x 3TB Hitachi 7200rpm
USB 3.0 hdd sata dock
One Drive 1TB of storage

Goal
Main goal is to prevent the loss of data. I keep all my family pictures and videos on there, stuff that is truly irreplaceable.

Current Use
Motherboard is set to RAID and the drives are setup in Intel RST. The two segate drives are in the raid 1 configuration while the hitachi is used to make a copy of what is on the raid 1 array. I also have all of the pictures and videos synced with one drive.

Question 1:
With my goal in mind, should I even really be using RAID? Should I just use one of the segate drives and have the other one backup the first one with some back up software? (Recommendations?)

Question 2:
If I should keep my Raid 1 array, should I be using a hardware or software RAID array? Would it be possible for me to set my motherboard to AHCI and then use Intel RST to still create the mirror of the two segate drives?

Thanks:)
 
1: Probably not because if you accidentally delete some photos or videos, they will be deleted on BOTH drives (since they're mirrored). This is a good example of the "RAID is not a backup" phrase that I'm sure you've heard. It's still better than nothing in the case that if a drive fails since you'll still have the 2nd one but like I explained above, accidentally deleting stuff can screw you over.

2: With RAID 1, SW or HW doesn't really matter, only when doing parity RAID since the ASIC is doing XOR calculations (which can be faster than your CPU or benefit from not eating up CPU cycles) or if you want to use the RAID controller's cache to your benefit. Should be possible what you mentioned, RAID 1 is very simple, Windows might even have something built-in for it.
 
1. I don't know if whether you should be using RAID is the correct question. A better question is, should you have your RAID setup on that computer? I'd recommend just getting a basic 2-bay NAS, and setting that as RAID1 and backup the data from your single Hitachi drive to the NAS. Then set another backup job to backup other data to your OneDrive account. That nearly satisfies the 3-2-1 backup rule (3 Copies of data on 2 types of media with 1 offsite

2. Software/Hardware RAID 1 as previously mentioned doesn't matter. If you want to set the controller to AHCI, be aware it will affect your windows install. Research before you make that change, as Windows won't be bootable afterwards (there are ways around it with certain OSs per my colleague - but I have not seen it). If you wanted to go that route anyways, you would need to set both the HDDs that are going to be in software RAID to Dynamic Disks. Then setup a mirror between them. This can all be accomplished in disk management (diskmgmt.msc). I've done it on several occassions and have had good luck with it, but I'd probably still choose hardware RAID with Windows.
 
Also be aware, once you change a Basic Disk to Dynamic, you can't change back! Really, I'd recommend picking up a cheap 2-bay NAS. If anything blows up in that computer, you can rest assured your data is backed up to the NAS externally :)
 
I recommend buying 2 external drives (probably $125 5TB toshibas on sale) and backup alternating externals each week (or month if that is too much work). Also its best to keep at least 1 backup drive unpowered at all times so there is no chance a power spike destroys all copies of your data.
 
The intel bios raid (RST) is still software raid. It just has a boot helper to go along with it in the bios.

The only point in using raid, is to handle a drive failure, without causing downtime. If you can handle your system being down, for a drive replacement, and worst case, a reinstall, then you don't need raid. If you do not do full backups of that machine and want to minimize downtime to reinstall, then raid would be a solution.

You really do want your backup disks on a separate system. One powersupply failure, or something else, can easily fry all the disks in that single system.
 
Offline backups are critical for the safety of your data. Never rely on raid for important things as your only source. Any number of things can happen, virus, surge, corruption, rot, etc, and any mirror drives will just reflect that immediately.

Irreplaceable things should also be burned to M-Disc blurays.
 
A local Raid-1 on a desktop gives you availability no more. If a disk fails you can continue to work without a reinstall.
But if you or a Virus deletes something or everything, this is gone, so local storage is insecure by default

If you care about data security, you need an external storage where you care about
- secure raid without write hole problems what means either a hardwareraid with BBU
or better software Raid with a CopyOnWrite filesystem that is always consistent even after a crash (no fschk)
- checksums do detect errors and scrubbing to repair them online on the fly from Raid.
- a versioning filesystem with snapshots that are read only and cannot be destroyed by a virus

Mostly today this means a ZFS system, maybe btrfs or ReFS in future where you put all
important and current data onto - with an additional external disaster backup.

At home this backup can be done to your desktop, either locally or to USB disks.
 
Lots of great advice! Thanks guys

charold said:
1. I don't know if whether you should be using RAID is the correct question. A better question is, should you have your RAID setup on that computer? I'd recommend just getting a basic 2-bay NAS, and setting that as RAID1 and backup the data from your single Hitachi drive to the NAS. Then set another backup job to backup other data to your OneDrive account. That nearly satisfies the 3-2-1 backup rule (3 Copies of data on 2 types of media with 1 offsite

2. Software/Hardware RAID 1 as previously mentioned doesn't matter. If you want to set the controller to AHCI, be aware it will affect your windows install. Research before you make that change, as Windows won't be bootable afterwards (there are ways around it with certain OSs per my colleague - but I have not seen it). If you wanted to go that route anyways, you would need to set both the HDDs that are going to be in software RAID to Dynamic Disks. Then setup a mirror between them. This can all be accomplished in disk management (diskmgmt.msc). I've done it on several occassions and have had good luck with it, but I'd probably still choose hardware RAID with Windows.
Click to expand...

charold said:
Also be aware, once you change a Basic Disk to Dynamic, you can't change back! Really, I'd recommend picking up a cheap 2-bay NAS. If anything blows up in that computer, you can rest assured your data is backed up to the NAS externally :)
Click to expand...

I've never really looks in to NAS, but i'd imagine a 2-bay NAS would be perfect. I'll have to do a little research on them. I'd imagine a NAS uses some type of RAID?

Since im completely ignorant about NAS, I would appreciate a couple buying tips or even a link if possible. Not sure what the software/hardware interplay is like, but i'd like something that will be win 10 compatible and be pretty user friendly.
EDIT thoughts about WD My Cloud EX2 Diskless: High-performance NAS, Ultimate reliability at $149 its the same price as the Synology America DiskStation 2-Bay Diskless Network Attached Storage, which I know is a big name in the NAS game, but i'd imagine the WD would be more user friendly? Also, I do like the cloud support.

patrickdk said:
The intel bios raid (RST) is still software raid. It just has a boot helper to go along with it in the bios.

The only point in using raid, is to handle a drive failure, without causing downtime. If you can handle your system being down, for a drive replacement, and worst case, a reinstall, then you don't need raid. If you do not do full backups of that machine and want to minimize downtime to reinstall, then raid would be a solution.

You really do want your backup disks on a separate system. One powersupply failure, or something else, can easily fry all the disks in that single system.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this clarification. I was not aware of that.
So, if I wanted to keep my RAID array in my computer, I would have to keep my mobo in RAID mode, correct?

Also, I agree with the idea of wanting your drives on different backups. Makes a lot of sense.

I guess I really don't need RAID. My OS is on an SSD. The only time my system will ever go down is if the ssd goes down. There is the data that is stored on the hdd that is new from the last time that there was a backup that is at risk; however, I guess this will always be the case as the RAID is not really a backup solution. TBH, RAID has been a hassle, but the one time I had an HDD drive die, it was so nice just to the drive out and add another.

Finally, a reinstall wouldn't bother me. I just did one in the last week, so it won't mess up much.
 
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Here is a cheap option - I have a Buffalo Terastation which I'm happy enough with, but this doesn't have the best reviews (its $85... so)

http://www.amazon.com/BUFFALO-LinkStation-Diskless-Enclosure-LS220DE/dp/B00NP7JUO2/ref=cm_rdp_product


A higher end option that I don't personally have experience with, but is always raved about in the storage forums are the Synology units, at $150 it's almost twice the price, but may prove to be better overall.

http://www.amazon.com/Synology-DiskStation-Diskless-Attached-DS214se/dp/B00FWURI8K/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1435331932&sr=8-2&keywords=2-bay+nas


Easiest way to set it up is just backup your data on the RAID configuration to your single 3TB, put the drives in the NAS and configure in RAID1, and configure a simple SMB or CIFS share, then map that drive to your desktop. Then just configure the backups to backup to that mapped drive (Z: by default). Make sure the NAS is on battery backup if possible, and that'll be a pretty good setup with minimal/no maintenance needed.

I did like drescherjm's idea, but for me it's more work than I like to do (I also am travelling frequently, and rsync my data to an offsite location anyways - plus very crucial data is on cloud storage).

It's up to you how important the data is, and how much it's worth in time and money.

So an example backup strategy would be nightly syncs from your 3TB local device to the NAS, and afterwards backup to the onedrive. I can help you with a Robocopy "script" that'll just sync the data over, and setup a scheduled task. I've done this with a lot of friends/family members, along with RAID monitoring on their NAS and it has worked well so far *knocks on wood*


Edit: That WD MyCloud looks pretty sweet - no experience with it myself, but it'd be worth a shot. Amazon has a great return policy, so you don't have too much to lose.

In regards to the ZFS comment above, I think that's going to be above his price range/experience comfort. I love my ZFS archive server at work, but it's not something you want to just throw together without proper research, and proper hardware.
 
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charold said:
In regards to the ZFS comment above, I think that's going to be above his price range/experience comfort.
I love my ZFS archive server at work, but it's not something you want to just throw together without proper research, and proper hardware.
Click to expand...

A HP Microserver G8 with 4 disk bays that is far better and faster than any cheap NAS,
is available up from 199 Euro in DE (about 220 USD) without disks (a used older HP microserver even cheaper).

Works out of the box with FreeNAS, NexentaStor CE (free at home) or OmniOS, maybe you could add another 2GB RAM
They are all free and ready to use within a couple of minutes.

Setup of OmniOS, see my Howto: http://www.napp-it.org/doc/downloads/napp-it.pdf
 
Thanks for all the great suggestions.

I think the NAS is going to be the way to go for me with the backups. It'll be great since i'll also be able to backup other computer in my house to it. Seems to just make sense.

I appreciate the ZFS idea, but it'll be a little bulky for my purposes. Also the ease of use of the NAS is pretty appealing. Maybe after a little time i'll make the jump to that if I feel my needs are not meet with the NAS.

So game plan:
-Move 2 x 3tb drives into NAS
-Move 1 x 3tb drive into PC
-Still use one drive to back up pictures/videos
 
Be sure you have a backup that is not always connected to your computer. If you get attacked by Cryptolocker (or other similar malware), it will encrypt everything it can find that is attached to your computer, including always online backups.
 
Tsumi said:
Be sure you have a backup that is not always connected to your computer. If you get attacked by Cryptolocker (or other similar malware), it will encrypt everything it can find that is attached to your computer, including always online backups.
Click to expand...

How would this work with the NAS? What about If I connect the NAS to my router?
 
doug_7506 said:
How would this work with the NAS? What about If I connect the NAS to my router?
Click to expand...

If your NAS is mapped to your computer as a network folder, it will encrypt the files on it if you have full access to it anytime (i.e. always on and credentials stored on computer). I don't know if it can seek out other computers on the network and wreak havoc on them. I do know that it is incapable of hacking if the credentials aren't stored.
 
If you are really worried keep the raid1, get a external raid box like the WD mybook duo AND burn them to DVD/blueray.
That way you would need 4 drives to fail in two different places and lose/break your DVD/Blueray.

I'd certainly put your important files in different places.
 
Just curious since it hasn't been brought up... what about an off-site backup like Crashplan? For my important files (pictures, home video, etc.) I'm paranoid. Not only do I run ZFS on my file server with my 6 data disks configured in a 3-way mirror, I back the files up daily to an HP N54L system and have Crashplan uploading them to the "cloud". Once a month I also sync the files to an external 2TB drive I keep in a fire chest. After losing my wife's pictures and college files to a hard drive crash years ago... let's just say I'm not letting that happen again.
 
farscapesg1 said:
Just curious since it hasn't been brought up... what about an off-site backup like Crashplan? For my important files (pictures, home video, etc.) I'm paranoid. Not only do I run ZFS on my file server with my 6 data disks configured in a 3-way mirror, I back the files up daily to an HP N54L system and have Crashplan uploading them to the "cloud". Once a month I also sync the files to an external 2TB drive I keep in a fire chest. After losing my wife's pictures and college files to a hard drive crash years ago... let's just say I'm not letting that happen again.
Click to expand...

That is definitely an option. However it doesn't seem very cost efficient. Crashplan will run me $150 a year. I get 1tb of OneDrvie free through work. OneDrive stores deleted data for a good bit of time:
By default, OneDrive stores your deleted files in a Recycle bin for at least 3 days and a maximum of 30 days. In most cases, it will store them for 30 days. If your Recycle bin gets large enough to exceed 10% of your total OneDrive storage, the duration for which they will be kept is reduced.
Click to expand...
So I guess for now the OneDrive should be sufficient. Unless there is something I am missing.
 
charold said:
Also be aware, once you change a Basic Disk to Dynamic, you can't change back!
Click to expand...
I assume you mean without losing data. If you're willing to start fresh by cleaning the entire HD, going back to Basic is trivial.

Some partition managers (e.g. Easeus) claim they can convert to Basic without losing data. I've never tried & would NOT attempt it without backup(s). Just like anything involving important data, of course.
 
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