Thermaltake Responds To Allegations It Copied The Competition

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
It looks as though Thermaltake has responded to the claims that the company has been ripping off product designs from its competition. Tt's Shannon Robb had this to say:

Hi Guys, sorry I didn't respond to this sooner but in TW it is just now like 7AM…

First off anyone who has seen these cases, they are in no way as far as fitment and functionality a copy of anything. The scalability and modularity are simply awesome.

As far as exterior appearance, we chose a design that ideally fit everything we wanted to accomplish with the design and similar with the panel grille designs. Its only partially about appearance and more about what will provide best airflow without sacrificing panel integrity and rigidity.

Lastly, do remember that as a chassis manufacturer we all make cases and if you remember we all used to have beige boxes, its not about copying anything its about what makes the best fit for the design you are trying to accomplish.

We are pushing the limits on many things as far as performance and feature sets and im glad you think our chassis is so awesome, because if you really like it that much you will like the price even better!

stay tuned to see more cool stuff from computex.
Click to expand...
 
its not about copying anything its about what makes the best fit for the design you are trying to accomplish
Click to expand...
If you were trying to accomplish an exact duplicate then bravo i guess.
 
Those pictures are damning. And he doesn't clearly state that he did or didn't steal designs. he dances around the questions. That looks guilty in my eyes.
 
This has been happening since the 80's. It's just people are more likely to file lawsuits and C&D's. Sure it's apart of the pc hardware business, but it doesn't make it right by any means. Ripping off someone else work and trying to pass it off as your own is all too often common.
 
The problem with some designs is that there can be "the minimum design".

Effectively the bare minimum you can break a device down to to still enable the core functionality.

This is why I get annoyed with folks saying "It just looks like a macbook!" Yes well the Macbook is the bare minimum design for a laptop so what else are you going to do if you want a 'simple' design?

But some of those pics do look a bit 'me too'.
 
The other point to mention is that probably some of those items were not actually made by either companies and just bought in designs but neither will admit it.

Most of these companies don't actually 'manufacture' or design most of the good they sell.
 
To some degree, yes. Different companies trying to design the ideal version of different products will inevitably come up with similar-looking products, at least from a functional perspective. But the similarities in those photos go beyond functional similarities. The aesthetic similarities are awfully....suggestive.
 
I'm going to see if/when Microcenter gets these locally, so I can see this case in person myself.
 
daglesj said:
The other point to mention is that probably some of those items were not actually made by either companies and just bought in designs but neither will admit it.

Most of these companies don't actually 'manufacture' or design most of the good they sell.
Click to expand...

Thing is...Case Labs actually does make the stuff the sell. Their gear costs a pretty penny for the reason, designed and made in the USA. Swiftech's gear is probably designed here but made overseas

Thermaltake is just outright stealing IP. CaseLabs has a right to be pissed.
 
I've been saying this FOREVER (well not on the forums, as I'm a super lurker). All their stuff has always seemed like a copy of everyone's stuff. They have had (ThermalTake) a few of their own ideas, but the majority of the products I've seen are just replica's; it's almost like konig wheels in the car wheel market, they make "original" designs....that just so happen to be complete replica's (minus construction quality) that come out 2-3 months later.
 
What a pathetic (and expected) response.

Skripka said:
Thing is...Case Labs actually does make the stuff the sell. Their gear costs a pretty penny for the reason, designed and made in the USA. Swiftech's gear is probably designed here but made overseas

Thermaltake is just outright stealing IP. CaseLabs has a right to be pissed.
Click to expand...

Indeed. Caselabs did change how many manufacturers thought about case design. The ability to swap the front bays of the case? Drop in radiator mounts? Expansion pedestals? Take a look at their products to see the level of flexibility and modularity they provide. They also use fully aluminum designs, of sufficient thickness that their overall quality and rigidity easily surpasses most manufacturers using steel.

Intelligent companies like Phanteks have adopted their own version of radiator drop in mounts, for example, without simply copying what Caselabs has done. Corsair's 900D looked at pedestals and saw how they could incorporate a compartment of this kind as part of the case itself, instead of being an additional modular part.

It humours me that I've now seen several articles regarding this, and many of them actually show different product ranges that have been copied over time. I hadn't realized Thermaltake lacked any semblance of innovation for this long. I suppose that's an accomplish in and of itself, really.
 
That lame page shows cases, fans, fan controllers, and water blocks.

Ohhhh... so TT purchased some waterblocks with their logo on it from Swiftech... ummm, that happens all the time with different OEMs having other companies buy stuff and stick their logo on it.

The fans.. so not a copy.

The fan controllers.... crappy ones at that... are not a copy.

The cases do look pretty similar, but I am pretty sure that the caselabs ones are going to be of better quality. Maybe they were copied.. maybe not. I would want to see both side by side in person before coming to a conclusion.
 
The CPU block is licensed, not copied. The waterblock is a waterblock like any other waterblock out there, just without active cooling on the mosfets which doesnt exactly make a full block. Case wise, the Suppressor is a complete rip off on the outside and the other case is nothing like the CaseLabs.

I am not defending TT, but people are reaching too hard here. Their blind loyalism to other brands is getting to them. The so called case labs copy is different on the outside and very different on the inside. The fans have actual LEDs vs colored rings.
Why didnt no one rip Corsair when they released the 900D case? It was VERY similar to the CaseLabs case.

A copy is a COPY, complete COPY. Besides the Suppressor on the outside, every other product has its differences which doesnt make it a copy, especially on the inside of the case where it matters most.
 
If case labs want to make more money have it made in china or Mexico its how big companies make money.
 
If anything, this is a green light to Case Labs to finally realize that they are not the only player in town. Their products CAN be imitated, how mildly is up to you to decide, and people will still buy them. I honestly think that Case labs makes nice cases overall, but their construction simplicity does NOT warrant their high prices.

Their finishes are simple wrinkle powder coat which is super easy to apply and probably what takes the longest time in order to cure and bake. The rest of their designs are simply stamped steel held by a few clips.

They are simply charging what they are charging because they were the first to come to the scene with this concept, but I will bet you Corsair is going to have similar cases VERY soon. Its only a matter of time before Case Labs will come to a realization that they are not the only case maker on the block. Competition is a good thing.
 
Igroock said:
If anything, this is a green light to Case Labs to finally realize that they are not the only player in town. Their products CAN be imitated, how mildly is up to you to decide, and people will still buy them. I honestly think that Case labs makes nice cases overall, but their construction simplicity does NOT warrant their high prices.

Their finishes are simple wrinkle powder coat which is super easy to apply and probably what takes the longest time in order to cure and bake. The rest of their designs are simply stamped steel held by a few clips.

They are simply charging what they are charging because they were the first to come to the scene with this concept, but I will bet you Corsair is going to have similar cases VERY soon. Its only a matter of time before Case Labs will come to a realization that they are not the only case maker on the block. Competition is a good thing.
Click to expand...

Not really. They're a family business (i.e. small) being carbon-copied by a multi-national brand that outsources the snot out of everything. There's not much mom/pop can do to compete when they have multi-billion USD multinationals copying them.

You want a bespoke treatment, costs to the consumer will be higher. Same with everything. That is what CaseLabs is, a small bespoke operation. For the treatment you get as a consumer they're not overpriced at all.
 
There are going to be knock offs in all sorts of product lines. Basically it comes down to this: Tell me why the original is so much better that it's worth paying so much more. My Invicta watch is basically the same design as a Rolex. Other than the price, we need to know the differences. Is it as good? No. Is it good enough? Often, yes. The original designers put out higher quality products, and those who need or want them will still buy them. Because basically, this is how good designs get to the masses, by making them cheaper and cutting corners. Reserving good designs for people with a lot of money? If it's that special, patent it. If you can't patent it, then your design is fair game to be duplicated. Watch a Formula 1 race sometime and see how fast a good design gets copied by the competition.
 
nightfly said:
There are going to be knock offs in all sorts of product lines. Basically it comes down to this: Tell me why the original is so much better that it's worth paying so much more. My Invicta watch is basically the same design as a Rolex. Other than the price, we need to know the differences. Is it as good? No. Is it good enough? Often, yes. The original designers put out higher quality products, and those who need or want them will still buy them. Because basically, this is how good designs get to the masses, by making them cheaper and cutting corners. Reserving good designs for people with a lot of money? If it's that special, patent it. If you can't patent it, then your design is fair game to be duplicated. Watch a Formula 1 race sometime and see how fast a good design gets copied by the competition.
Click to expand...

And people wonder why all US goods makers have gone belly up and why we have employment problems in the USA.

Try patenting something yourself. It is horrendously expensive just to do and time consuming, nevermind defend in the event of litigation. That presumes you stay in business long enough for your multi-national competitor not to devour your sales with cheap look-a-likes.

Why is nothing made or sold locally anymore? Herp derp. Your attitude is precisely why.
 
THIS is what patents were designed for. Not for patenting 'black rectangles', 'clicking a button' etc that Apple likes to abuse.

I'm rather surprised CaseLabs didn't patent their design. Even if they didn't they should have a clear case of infringement if they went to court. Of course the US legal system was designed to favor the wealthy, like everything else in this country, so they'd likely be tied up for years and run out of money.
 
What the hell is this? I can't believe everyone is wising up to the fact that Thermaltake is a "me too" company.

I stopped buying ThermalTAKE way back in 2003 when I first saw their "take" on the Chieftek design, it was a EXACT copy with a material change from steel to aluminium black to silver and a horrible window with side fan.

The last product I tried of theirs was the first "big water" watercooler they released which performed worse than air and received endless returns of their crap power supplies (which they have resolved by rebadging a different OEM's PSUs).
 
Well case labs should have gotten a patent or something to protect thier cases. From being copied. Nothing really they can do.
 
There is absolutely no question that Thermaltake stole the design. This guy Shannon should be kicked in the dick repeatedly until he promises to stop stealing others work. If he were in college he would be expelled for plagiarism. He stole designs. He's a piece of shit. Kick Thermaltake the only place you can and don't buy their products and make it known you didn't buy their products due this piece of garbage who steals designs and claims them of his own. Nothing worse than a liar who is caught lying and still fucking lies. OK, I'm done with Thermaltake forever.
 
Haven't bought Thermaltake in a long time and will continue to not do so in the future.
 
I was looking at CaseLabs products for my next build. Looks like this just solidified my decision to go with their cases.

Shame, too. I like Thermaltake power supplies a lot, but some of those products are really obvious clones. Not cool.
 
Igroock said:
The CPU block is licensed, not copied. The waterblock is a waterblock like any other waterblock out there, just without active cooling on the mosfets which doesnt exactly make a full block. Case wise, the Suppressor is a complete rip off on the outside and the other case is nothing like the CaseLabs.

I am not defending TT, but people are reaching too hard here. Their blind loyalism to other brands is getting to them. The so called case labs copy is different on the outside and very different on the inside. The fans have actual LEDs vs colored rings.
Why didnt no one rip Corsair when they released the 900D case? It was VERY similar to the CaseLabs case.

A copy is a COPY, complete COPY. Besides the Suppressor on the outside, every other product has its differences which doesnt make it a copy, especially on the inside of the case where it matters most.
Click to expand...

Are you joking? The only difference between those water blocks is the logo. You're saying you can just slap a different sticker on the product and that makes it not a copy? Please.

It's the exact same fucking thing.
 
LordGardenGnome said:
I've been saying this FOREVER (well not on the forums, as I'm a super lurker). All their stuff has always seemed like a copy of everyone's stuff. They have had (ThermalTake) a few of their own ideas, but the majority of the products I've seen are just replica's; it's almost like konig wheels in the car wheel market, they make "original" designs....that just so happen to be complete replica's (minus construction quality) that come out 2-3 months later.
Click to expand...

This occurs in practically EVERY manufacturing industry.

This shouldn't be a surprise, I don't understand the drama.

Maybe I've become jaded working in manufacturing, importing, etc for many many years now... Hell, for all we know they are getting back door parts in TW or CHINA re-branding them, and creating the drama between the two companies to ramp up sales...

I always find it amusing when consumers "Side" with a company, like either company is on that customers "side"...
 
They've been doing this for as long as I can remember.

I remember when they ripped off The Agilent Arcticooler to make all of the Thermaltake Orb's that made them so famous in the first place.
 
It's called buying from an ODM. You send them a logo file, box art, and a check, they ship a product for you.
 
Skripka said:
And people wonder why all US goods makers have gone belly up and why we have employment problems in the USA.

Try patenting something yourself. It is horrendously expensive just to do and time consuming, nevermind defend in the event of litigation. That presumes you stay in business long enough for your multi-national competitor not to devour your sales with cheap look-a-likes.

Why is nothing made or sold locally anymore? Herp derp. Your attitude is precisely why.
Click to expand...

To be fair the many companies should have done a little more to meet the market demand. Here's a simple explanation. Say you come up with a good brand or idea, if you simply make sure that you provide products and the right price points for different people you will essentially leave no room for competition to come in and undercut you. But if you rest on your laurels and think that you can just keep charging and arm and a leg and never improve your efficiency or make cheaper alternatives someone else will fill the market segment. There are some companies where the name brand product is barely any more or even cheaper than the knockoffs.

Maybe Caselabs is just such an example. Even if they just spun off another brand they should have made some cases with similar features that were a little more down to earth rather than the over the top prices they charge.

I will also make one other argument I have seen hundreds, maybe thousands of cases in life where if you learn the real inside story you find out that the company you think made the original also knocked off the design. To put it bluntly, every thing apple makes, and the funny thing is you all know about many of these products and you probably think its ridiculous when you find people out on the street constantly touting apple as this great innovative company and crediting them with almost anything. But I will say that extends to almost every product you look at in real life. Often times the people who really come up with designs just don't have any of the tools needed to properly compete in the marketplace, they don't have the capital, don't have the lawyers, marketing power, etc..... It is exceptionally rare that I ever find any product which I can investigate thoroughly and not be able to find out they just knocked off someone else's idea.
 
As for the water block argument going on a few posts up, Swiftech designed and licensed the Apogee XL in a partnership with Tt, says so in official statements. So, it's not a blatant copy, it's the exact same product. Swiftech gave them the rights to sell it and it's probably made in the exact same Taiwan production line as the Apogee XL.

Sure some of the other things are blatant ripoffs, but who cares about Tt anyways, isn't that the crap you buy at Radio Shack and Best Buy when you just don't give a shit about a build and are willing to settle for junk? I mean, I'm a cheapskate but I still wouldn't touch any of their stuff.

I don't imagine many Tt buyers would be potential Case Labs/Corsair/etc customers, if they didn't buy these cheap ass clones they're probably gonna buy some other cheap POS, not step up a couple/few hundred dollars to the premium products.

Besides, as a few others have said, everyone's ripping off everyone else. Most products are at least derivative in some way or another. How much true innovation is there in a box that holds components?
 
MavericK96 said:
Are you joking? The only difference between those water blocks is the logo. You're saying you can just slap a different sticker on the product and that makes it not a copy? Please.

It's the exact same fucking thing.
Click to expand...

Its a fucking waterblock, get over it already. There are literally only a few ways to design a slab of copper/nickel AROUND A VIDEO CARD LAYOUT DETERMINED BY NVIDIA/AMD. If you are blind to that fact then you need to snap out of it. You cannot change a layout of a video card when making a waterblock, you design the block around it, and then add some plastic shit around the metals to make it look fancy.
 
Thermaltake actually used to make some really nice and innovative products back in the late 90's and early to mid 00's. I used to buy their heatsinks every time, and I even bought one of their power supplies (back when there were good). But it seems like at some point they just stopped putting out anything I would want to buy. Sad really, but it seems like Corsair sort of took over the part of the market that Thermaltake was serving. The reasonable quality, fair price and some quirky designs segment. It's not just Corsair, there are a lot of companies in that segment who entered in that time-frame like NZXT, Fractal Design and Be Quiet to name a few.
 
rudy said:
To be fair the many companies should have done a little more to meet the market demand. Here's a simple explanation. Say you come up with a good brand or idea, if you simply make sure that you provide products and the right price points for different people you will essentially leave no room for competition to come in and undercut you. But if you rest on your laurels and think that you can just keep charging and arm and a leg and never improve your efficiency or make cheaper alternatives someone else will fill the market segment. There are some companies where the name brand product is barely any more or even cheaper than the knockoffs.

Maybe Caselabs is just such an example. Even if they just spun off another brand they should have made some cases with similar features that were a little more down to earth rather than the over the top prices they charge.

I will also make one other argument I have seen hundreds, maybe thousands of cases in life where if you learn the real inside story you find out that the company you think made the original also knocked off the design. To put it bluntly, every thing apple makes, and the funny thing is you all know about many of these products and you probably think its ridiculous when you find people out on the street constantly touting apple as this great innovative company and crediting them with almost anything. But I will say that extends to almost every product you look at in real life. Often times the people who really come up with designs just don't have any of the tools needed to properly compete in the marketplace, they don't have the capital, don't have the lawyers, marketing power, etc..... It is exceptionally rare that I ever find any product which I can investigate thoroughly and not be able to find out they just knocked off someone else's idea.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Thermaltake has been doing this nearly as long as they have been around. Caselabs needs to do something more then a to expensive box. Those case can be easily replicated. Will it have the same build quality probably not, but it could get close.
If Thermal take copies In-Win then I would have a problem, But A box is a box. I think both companies need to do some soul searching for different reasons. I seriously like In-win cases they are doing for the signature line. I mean if i am going to pay 4-700 dollars for a case I would pick one of those cases of a Caselabs any day.
In_Win_S-Frame_03.jpg
 
Every case that TT is accused of "copying" look like they were copied from other companies anyway.

Features I saw on the TT PCs that are 8+ years old:

Flat panel front door with indention to open door on upper left or right.
Vertical grill down the front side(s) to let air flow into fans due to having a front door otherwise blocking airflow.
Flat side panel with grill and internal fan on lower left.
Modular cooling solution for the bottom of the PC, including for double-wide cases.
Double-wide cases in general.

Quite frankly I didn't see anything even vaguely unique in the external appearance of the Case Labs cases in any of the photos in the linked article. There may be some functionality to some of the features that I am not aware of that may be unique. But if you are just talking the basic external design, everything those Case Labs cases are doing I have seen before. If case makers weren't allowed to copy things others have already done then Case Labs wouldn't have a single case to sell.
 
Igroock said:
Its a fucking waterblock, get over it already. There are literally only a few ways to design a slab of copper/nickel AROUND A VIDEO CARD LAYOUT DETERMINED BY NVIDIA/AMD. If you are blind to that fact then you need to snap out of it. You cannot change a layout of a video card when making a waterblock, you design the block around it, and then add some plastic shit around the metals to make it look fancy.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

Pretty sure there are dozens of designs that could be used that would look sufficiently different and still perform the same function. It doesn't have to be an exact carbon copy of a competitor's design.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top