Worker Fired For Removing App That Tracked Her 24 Hours A Day

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
I think this lady might be overreacting a bit. What's the big deal about your employer tracking you 24/7? :D

The suit, which claims invasion of privacy, retaliation, unfair business practices, and other allegations, seeks damages in excess of $500,000 and asserts she was monitored on the weekends when she was not working. Arias' boss "scolded" her for uninstalling the app shortly after being required to use it, according to the suit. "This intrusion would be highly offensive to a reasonable person," the filing said.
Click to expand...
 
company issued iPhone
Click to expand...

End of case, it's company property they can mandate any software package they want on their own devices. She can always leave the phone off/at home when she's out of work.
 
canna said:
End of case, it's company property they can mandate any software package they want on their own devices. She can always leave the phone off/at home when she's out of work.
Click to expand...

Apparently she was expected to keep the phone on her person 24/7 to receive calls.
 
canna said:
End of case, it's company property they can mandate any software package they want on their own devices. She can always leave the phone off/at home when she's out of work.
Click to expand...

This ... unless she was oncall 24x7 she could have just left the phone at home or the office ... companies have a lot of legal room on devices they issue (including also the monitoring of communications, if they so desire)
 
Don't like the app tracking you, then turn the phone off, leave it at home, or store it in a lead lined box.

Now if she had the phone on 24/7 because she was supposed to be on call, then that was all part of the job, and she didn't like it she should have quit.
 
This is likely to come down to what level of employee she is classified as and what she signed in the contract of employment ... company property is usually theirs and they can do whatever they want with it during work hours or not ... if she is exempt and classified as an executive then the company has a lot more say so of outside office activities ... if she is truly on-call 24x7 (as her suit alleges) then the company probably does have some rights in tracking where she is, even during off hours

Now, the other part of her lawsuit is the much stronger ... if she can prove that the new employer called her previous employer to blacklist her, that would be illegal in most jurisdictions ... the privacy one is more iffy ... she might prevail in California but if it is pursued to the Federal levels I don't see that ruling standing very far up the appeals chain
 
We'll look back on this as the good old days before mandatory subdermal tracking chips were a requirement for employment.
 
What an idiot.

Company issued iphone, iPhone stays at the company, period.

In a company vehicle or driving on company time with said iPhone? Should be tracked.

On call? You get compensated for that in some way, and if you don't then you should quit anyways. If you are being compensated you should be being tracked. Visit a client while on call and they claim you are drunk? Gee Mrs. You came from a bar and your client said you smelled like alcohol! Guess we need to watch you a little more closely.

Supervisor? If you are not hourly and are required to take calls out of the office? Too bad for you, you are getting tracked. Hourly supervisor? Phone stays at work.

Simple concepts really...
 
ocellaris said:
Apparently she was expected to keep the phone on her person 24/7 to receive calls.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's the issue. Tracking her movements during work hours is one thing, but mandating an ability (and apparently a desire) to track her during other times is creepy and potentially unlawful.
 
This is a much larger issue.

Even if you have a job that requires you be on call 24 hours a day, is it reasonable or should it be legal to allow your employer to know your location all the time?

I'm sure they'd say it's so they know how far you are from a job, but what about your individual rights as a person? It's one thing for them to expect you to stay in town unless you notify them, but for them to have you nailed down to the nearest few meters all the time? Or you can't be employed by them?

Frankly that's a terrifying future.
 
ocellaris said:
Apparently she was expected to keep the phone on her person 24/7 to receive calls.
Click to expand...

Sounds like she is not paid hourly. If that's the requirement then that's that. Nothing you can do about that.

Uninstalling the app obviously was the wrong way to try to solve the boss stalking the employees though.:rolleyes:
 
canna said:
End of case, it's company property they can mandate any software package they want on their own devices. She can always leave the phone off/at home when she's out of work.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not. It would track information about her even when she is not using it for company work. They mandate she has it on her and they automatically get to track her? Nope. You're crazy.
 
Did they really give a crap about tracking her, or were they tracking the phone? We require phone tracking on our devices too, simply because it helps reduce theft/loss/etc of our hardware, and we also reserve the right to wipe it remotely on a whim, regardless of how many pics and music and so forth you put on it.
 
Ducman69 said:
Did they really give a crap about tracking her, or were they tracking the phone? We require phone tracking on our devices too, simply because it helps reduce theft/loss/etc of our hardware, and we also reserve the right to wipe it remotely on a whim, regardless of how many pics and music and so forth you put on it.
Click to expand...

That is 100% unreasonable if there is any way for anyone at your company to view that information when the phone hasn't been reported as stolen, even if they say they don't. Keep in mind that companies typically mandate employees carry these things for employees they want to have them.
 
dandragonrage said:
That is 100% unreasonable if there is any way for anyone at your company to view that information when the phone hasn't been reported as stolen, even if they say they don't. Keep in mind that companies typically mandate employees carry these things for employees they want to have them.
Click to expand...
There is, but only the phone guys, and you can request to track it down by being or pretending to be the owner or owner's manager, but the owner will get an email of the inquiry.
 
Unless this is the only phone she owns (which is always risky only having a company phone), she should could have forwarded her phone during off hours to her personal number (so that she satisfies the on-call requirement) but left the actual phone at her house ... that would have been a less litigious solution than deleting the app and getting fired
 
Sounds like she will be better off, even if she looses the suit, since her ex-boss sounds like an immature douchebag.
 
kbrickley said:
Unless this is the only phone she owns (which is always risky only having a company phone), she should could have forwarded her phone during off hours to her personal number (so that she satisfies the on-call requirement) but left the actual phone at her house ... that would have been a less litigious solution than deleting the app and getting fired
Click to expand...
Seems like a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. Tracking a person's movement while they are on call but not actually working shouldn't be a thing.

Tracking while working or upon request to track down a lost phone is perfectly reasonable for a company phone.

If the employment contract doesn't specify that their "character" would be judged while off work and they would be expected to follow certain character guidelines sounds would make it difficult to justify the bosses unfettered access to that tracking information and use of that tracking information.
 
I understand it's the companies property and they can install whatever they want on it, but there has to be limits. Can you legally force an employee to carry a phone? Yes, if you provide the phone to them. Does that give you the right to track where they go, how fast they were driving, etc. etc.?

I don't think so. Even the government hasn't gone that far (yet). I view this as an invasion of privacy. The company is paying the woman for her skills....period.

You don't become an indentured servant when you take a job.
 
Seems fairly simple to me.

1. Get another phone.
2. Set up "Call Forwarding" on 'Company Phone' to second phone.
3. When 'Not-on-the-clock' , lock first phone in desk....
 
The phone may be company property, but when she's off the company premises and off the clock, and on/in her own property - such as her car, or in her house - then the company is now intruding on her civil rights by tracking her movements without her consent. That kind of "big brother" mentality from a corporation has got to go. I hope she wins this with prejudice.
 
lady said:
Seems fairly simple to me.

1. Get another phone.
2. Set up "Call Forwarding" on 'Company Phone' to second phone.
3. When 'Not-on-the-clock' , lock first phone in desk....
Click to expand...

You solved the problem
 
Semantics said:
Seems like a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. Tracking a person's movement while they are on call but not actually working shouldn't be a thing.

Tracking while working or upon request to track down a lost phone is perfectly reasonable for a company phone.

If the employment contract doesn't specify that their "character" would be judged while off work and they would be expected to follow certain character guidelines sounds would make it difficult to justify the bosses unfettered access to that tracking information and use of that tracking information.
Click to expand...

We'll see how the courts rule ... the employer has more and more extension into the employee's "private" life now ... for companies that have banned smoking or are encouraging healthy lifestyles there is more of a push (because of the cost of insurance) to enforce these lifestyle changes in all venues (including the employee's house) ... for the most part the employment situation in the USA is a buyer's market right now and not a seller's market, so that tends to favor the employer over the employee in terms of what they can require of their workers
 
As someone who administers company (and, actually, employee-owned) phones to manage critical and sensitive data, we track a good amount of what goes onto the corporate phones - right down to what apps are installed.

I look at it this way, if your job requires the use of a phone, then you have to use it. Under company policy. And if you don't like what corporate does to track their assets (I mean the phones, people, not the employees :D ) then you're doing it wrong.
 
Phoenix333 said:
The phone may be company property, but when she's off the company premises and off the clock, and on/in her own property - such as her car, or in her house - then the company is now intruding on her civil rights by tracking her movements without her consent. That kind of "big brother" mentality from a corporation has got to go. I hope she wins this with prejudice.
Click to expand...

That legal standard has not yet been tested ... the government has a lot of restrictions on what they can or cannot due ... many of those restrictions against government do not apply to private employers ... so far the only legal requirement for companies on the civil rights front is discrimination ... the bar beyond that has yet to be tested, so we'll see if this is the case to test that or not (if this were her private phone I would say this is a no brainer ... with a company phone it could go either way legally, depending on the judge)
 
I guess that is one perk working in a company where unless the company gives you a phone, phones are prohibited inside company grounds.
 
Wikipedia defines "on call" rather succinctly as "being available for work on request while off-duty."

I'd like to see how the contract that this worker signed defines "on call". THAT is where the lawsuit will be won or lost.
 
I guess most of you missed this point:

Arias' attorney, Gail Glick, said in a Monday e-mail to Ars that the app allowed her client's "bosses to see every move the employees made throughout the day."

The app had a "clock in/out" feature which did not stop GPS monitoring, that function remained on. This is the problem about which Ms. Arias complained. Management never made mention of mileage. They would tell her co-workers and her of their driving speed, roads taken, and time spent at customer locations.

Her manager made it clear that he was using the program to continuously monitor her, during company as well as personal time.
Click to expand...
 
In my old Agency they issued phones to use 24/7. All they did was make us sign for them and if we lost them it would be deducted from out pay if it was determined to be through negligence. Usually it was only 200 bucks.

When it was reported they just sent a kill command to the phone, charged your advance pay stub, and issued a new phone with the same number.

They should give you the option of it is required 24/7. Track all the time or charge for the lost phone.

There should be no reason why you should be tracked 24/7.
 
Folks, it's this easy: if an employer ever tells you to take this here phone and they'll be tracking you 24/7, you turn around and tell them to shove it right up their ass. All the way up there.

It's better to work at Chick-fil-a with dignity than be someone else's doormat.

Stand up for yourselves!
 
jwcalla said:
Folks, it's this easy: if an employer ever tells you to take this here phone and they'll be tracking you 24/7, you turn around and tell them to shove it right up their ass. All the way up there.

It's better to work at Chick-fil-a with dignity than be someone else's doormat.

Stand up for yourselves!
Click to expand...

your sentiment is well taken but your example could use work
 
The company could have covered themselves by saying the purpose was to keep track of company-owned equipment. Once the manager opened his mouth to say he was tracking her, she should have a legitimate invasion of privacy claim at least against the manager if not the company.
 
Apparently we're getting conditioned to becoming expensive Chinese factory labor. Maybe in the future we'll become cheaper as well, so there's a silver lining there for CEOs.
 
Hi All

When I was a Paramedic I would be on 24 hr call on a rotating basis on weekends. All that was required was that if called you would be at work within a hour ready to work meaning you were sober. No tracking or any such BS.

Seems to me that a lot of employers think they can do whatever they want to their employees given the current job market, no matter how unreasonable or outrageous it may be.

I suspect that if this goes to trial a jury will take a dim view of said employers policy & find for the plaintiff.
 
It'll have to stop somewhere: "Just like every other employer in this field, we reserve the right to require the company issued device to remain on your person with the microphone always on. Failure to keep to comply results in termination."
 
i wonder how far these " if its in the contract accept it or quit" kind of people think how far they will go themselves.

Sorry contract mandates blowjob to you boss every monday.
Sorry every Tuesday is a tazer to the groin day. its in the contract...

I guess the these kind of people are just all in for the money ?

Someday you need to learn to stand up against BS from employes.
no wonder the workers in the states has such bullshit working condition and workers rights are falling so far behind the rest of the western world when the general consensus is to just prostitute yourself and your morale values for money.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top