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New Samsung 4k for everyone.
- Thread starter seanclayton
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Oh, I doubt you will like the 7500 more since it's not much different from mine.
I tried to use the built in web browser, that was no fun experience, it feels a bit laggy and the scrolling is so slow and it felt like the text was a bit blurry and and I could feel eyestrain even from 3m distance.
I think this display is going back to the store.
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WorldExclusive
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I haven't played a game in over a week. Using the display for work; The primary use for it.
Watching TV moved up to second(amazing picture) and gaming is a close third.
I still recommend other screens for gaming, but if you really want 4K and are willing to deal with the trade offs, this is it.
Watching TV moved up to second(amazing picture) and gaming is a close third.
I still recommend other screens for gaming, but if you really want 4K and are willing to deal with the trade offs, this is it.
Yeah, my HP 30" is dead to me now, lol. Ugh. Gotta find a solution! Looking hard at the Philips.
I think the build quality won't be in the same ballpark and it's still PWM, but it's twice the freq (240hz). It's worth a shot. But no curve. Argh.
I think the build quality won't be in the same ballpark and it's still PWM, but it's twice the freq (240hz). It's worth a shot. But no curve. Argh.
Nvm, after going back to Benq I tested to drag around browser Window and it's doing the same. Don't know why I thought it wasn't like that on the Benq.
I had the Philips, I was getting fatigue and headache from it too.
I'm sure the 2015 backlight controls are very similar to the 2014 screens. This is [H] - modify the PWM yourself (see link earlier in thread)! I plan on doing so. Worse case, I will try bypassing the screen's controls and drive the LEDs directly with a current-limited driver instead of PWM. Current-limited may also be able to improve the tint of the display. If the wires to the LEDs are still easily accessible from behind the back panel, it won't take much work to modify how they are controlled.
I do wish they used warmer leds though - that is the cause of the blue hue in these sets. I thought my old 22" LED backlit screens were cool compared to my CCFL screen - warm2 on these Samsungs is barely warmer than the 22" at stock settings, which is much cooler than my old 30" CCFL backlit display. Of course, the CRI looks lower on these displays also (like most LED) - reds just don't pop like they do on the 30" CCFL-backlit displays.
Edit - PWM mod for last-gen:
http://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php5?ti..._Improving_Backlight_PWM_Frequency_of_Your_TV
I think I already have everything needed for the above PWM modification. I will just need to see if the screen's backlight controls are much different. It may just require a couple minor code updates.
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Great. Looks like I'm hosed until 2016 or longer.
Wow, that IS [H]ard, lol. I will be following your mod thread!!!
Nice weather this weekend so I want to get outdoors, but I may attempt it the following weekend. I figure I can bring a nerd friend over that loves programming microcontrollers in his spare time (rather than spending $50 on something that performs similar, already on the market), and we can get it sorted out in a couple hours. It'd probably take me a couple days if any modifications are needed as I'm not nearly as fast in using oscopes or working in Code Composer/C-programming. I do have a setup for prototyping everything outside of the television though, so I don't fear overdriving the LEDs. To get control from the tv's built-in settings, it would probably require having one µC drive a second pwm-signal-modifying µC in a manner similar to the television's PWM signal.
40JU6500.
Had to use my eBay bucks, and Best Buy sells on eBay, so I went with what model they have available. They couldn't give me any information about receiving other 2015 models, so I will likely be stuck with the 40" U6500. I think I'd like the 48" U6700 in the long run, but it's either me spend $30 out-of-pocket, or $1148 out-of-pocket by getting what I really want from Frys. The responsible decision is the 40" U6500, which is also a decent screen size for productivity at 2-3ft distances.
The Wasabi Mango UHD420 42" looks like a good alternative, not sure if it is PWM free.
Would the dummy way of putting a power resister in line with the wire going to the leds be easier? I'm really on the fence getting this tv, mostly due to the pwm. Nobody's verified pwm frequency on the 6k's either.
The high temp color is from Samsung using shitty led tint for a display. It implies poorer color too since those emit much less red. The good news is that you can *cut* blue substantially with the panel and get a dimmer screen.
Proper resistor selection could lower brightness of the entire panel, letting a person make brightness-20 look like stock 5. You would need it to dump quite a bit of heat though - maybe even over 10 Watts.
The range of 4-8 for stock brightness settings is what I like. We have no idea how the tint will change by doing so though - LEDs show a different tint at 100% than 20%. How the tint changes will depend on the specific LED.
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SixFootDuo
Supreme [H]ardness
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I have a Lan meetup this weekend. I'll take my new 4k 6500 and demo it with several games that look amazing at 4k. There are usually around 200 - 250 people who show up. Not everyone that comes brings their PC's so I am sure to have a nice crowd around me.
How do I describe this PWM to people in a manner that they can see it and feel it right away? I am very interested in getting a real time unbiased opinion so I can share that feedback, good or bad. Myself and a few online buddies ( one local ) cannot tell what it is even after 12 - 15 hours of solid gaming with breaks.
We are all 10/10 Mythic and have the 2 x 40" the 48" and myself, the 50"
Our backlights are around 8 - 10 - 12 depending on game. Most of the time 10.
Thanks in advance
How do I describe this PWM to people in a manner that they can see it and feel it right away? I am very interested in getting a real time unbiased opinion so I can share that feedback, good or bad. Myself and a few online buddies ( one local ) cannot tell what it is even after 12 - 15 hours of solid gaming with breaks.
We are all 10/10 Mythic and have the 2 x 40" the 48" and myself, the 50"
Our backlights are around 8 - 10 - 12 depending on game. Most of the time 10.
Thanks in advance
Got the 7500 hooked up.
First impressions are:
It's got noticeably less blur than the 6700. Not sure if it's tolerable yet - will need to play some more, but definitely a much better experience in BF4 so far.
It's PWM feels/looks exactly the same as the 6700. Still sucks and still may force me to return both.
It appears to be a slightly warmer panel than the 6700 at the same settings, which is very nice.
The high gloss actually seems to be MUCH easier on my eyes and offer better usable contrast.
EDIT: Just fired up Cities: Skylines. MUCH less blur. When scrolling across the city, all of the buildings would blur together on the 6700. On the 7500, they stay very clear and distinct. Really significant on Cities.
First impressions are:
It's got noticeably less blur than the 6700. Not sure if it's tolerable yet - will need to play some more, but definitely a much better experience in BF4 so far.
It's PWM feels/looks exactly the same as the 6700. Still sucks and still may force me to return both.
It appears to be a slightly warmer panel than the 6700 at the same settings, which is very nice.
The high gloss actually seems to be MUCH easier on my eyes and offer better usable contrast.
EDIT: Just fired up Cities: Skylines. MUCH less blur. When scrolling across the city, all of the buildings would blur together on the 6700. On the 7500, they stay very clear and distinct. Really significant on Cities.
Interesting. I am not seeing the blur in Cities on the 6700. What are your in game settings? Size of city?
SixFootDuo
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Cities is my number one game right now, have 80+ hours on it on my 6500 .... zero blur.
Not sure what you are doing wrong
Not sure what you are doing wrong
Just because you say there's zero blur, that means nothing. Its well verified there is motion blur already on the 6 series.
I just happen to be able to see it. The 7500 is much better in this regard.
Maybe Samsung is being Samsung and it's a panel lottery on a blurry or non blurry panel from different sources under the same model number
No, just certain people seem to thin that because they don't see things, means they don't exist for anybody. Same story, different day.
I will reiterate that if you are thinking about the 6 or the 7 series, go with the 7. It is a significantly better looking set. I'm not a glossy panel kinda guy, but this made a huge difference to me. On the 6700, I had this soft glare from any ambient light. This glare would affect the contrast and sharpness of the set. That is all gone with the 7500. Everything looks sharper as well.
But wowzers, the PWM is nothing nice - same as the 6700. Both panels are going back. Truly disappointing.
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SixFootDuo
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It means nothing? What are you even talking a bout? It means exactly what I said, that I have zero blur in my games.
You do understand your opinion is going against the majority of people on this tread right? Do we take a few people serious or do we take the majority of people at their word and experience. Me personally, I listen to everything. Each one of us still can learn something from the people around us. I totally respect the process.
I think most are going to assume you've done something wrong and or possibly have a defective unit and or setting set incorrectly.
You're just not having a good experience are you? Well, whatever you decide to do let us know. I would be very curious to see what you end up with. Once you go 4K along with a larger display, you're basically ruined from doing anything else. I've been testing out latency between my LG 42" and my new 6500, god, 1080p looks .... really really old school now.
You do understand your opinion is going against the majority of people on this tread right? Do we take a few people serious or do we take the majority of people at their word and experience. Me personally, I listen to everything. Each one of us still can learn something from the people around us. I totally respect the process.
I think most are going to assume you've done something wrong and or possibly have a defective unit and or setting set incorrectly.
You're just not having a good experience are you? Well, whatever you decide to do let us know. I would be very curious to see what you end up with. Once you go 4K along with a larger display, you're basically ruined from doing anything else. I've been testing out latency between my LG 42" and my new 6500, god, 1080p looks .... really really old school now.
Thanks for confirming I'm not insane or my panel was defective.
Maybe Samsung is being Samsung and it's a panel lottery on a blurry or non blurry panel from different sources under the same model number
Nope it just means different folks have different tolerances, just like PWM affect certain individuals.
Bummer about the PWM. It's a shame that you're missing out on this outstanding panel. I'm going to use the panel at 8 and below backlight to see if I'm getting fatigue from it. I'm positive it's the brightness of these panels. At least I don't get headaches as that's definitely a deal breaker.
Lateralus
More [H]uman than Human
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Well damn. We have a few people saying that there is basically no difference between the 6xxx and 7xxx series, or that it's an individual preference type of thing, and then a couple of people saying the 7xxx is clearly better.
Sounds like it's really subjective. I didn't want to buy a third Samsung, and now I'm tempted to. The blur doesn't bother me. I can see it at times, and it would be nice if it was reduced, but it's not a deal breaker that it's there. It doesn't detract from my experience. And there's a $450 difference in price. Eff...
Maybe I'll wait for another opinion. Anyone else out there capable of or thinking about doing a 6xxx/7xxx comparison?
Sounds like it's really subjective. I didn't want to buy a third Samsung, and now I'm tempted to. The blur doesn't bother me. I can see it at times, and it would be nice if it was reduced, but it's not a deal breaker that it's there. It doesn't detract from my experience. And there's a $450 difference in price. Eff...
Maybe I'll wait for another opinion. Anyone else out there capable of or thinking about doing a 6xxx/7xxx comparison?
Actually I can attest to the panel lottery being true. I had 5 of the same samsung tv's last year. I bought a couple from costco and best buy, same model but different build dates / manufacturing places.
All the ones from costco, which were confirmed to be a non samsung panel, had really distinct motion blur. There would be like a grey / purplish hue whenever anything moved quickly. Had another one that was a confirmed samsung panel and it was a lot faster in this regard and wasn't quite as noticeable.
I personally still noticed it even on the better panel so I sent it back for an LG. If you would've seen it, you'd definitely notice it. Samsung has done the panel lottery before so it isn't farfetched that some 6700's would or could better than others as far as blur is concerned.
Yet some how the professional reviews and those of us that have owned both panels consistently agree on the exact same thing.
Let's not make this more than what it is. Both panels have blur and the 7 series has less blur than the 6 series. Done and done.
Let's not make this more than what it is. Both panels have blur and the 7 series has less blur than the 6 series. Done and done.
Hauled my ass down to Frys today and look a long look at the 48 6700. However I didn't bring a usb stick with my own sources and their demo loop wasn't representative of desktop use. The Samsung store demo mode which reset display settings every few min was also really annoying; couldn't turn it off.
Overall the set is physically pretty much what I'm looking for, but no real way of testing PWM. My head was buzzing slightly after staring at it for half hour but that could just be from flipping the settings around so much (stock store settings are very aggressive).
In related news, costco was selling both 55 6500/6700 models as the 55ju670D/650D, for 1280/1480 iirc.
Tint for white leds at lower current will be bit warmer, but not all that much for the ratio we're talking about here, <<10x.
I'm mostly worried about PWM. I notice it sometimes on a friend's Samsung which I'd guess is 240hz.
Overall the set is physically pretty much what I'm looking for, but no real way of testing PWM. My head was buzzing slightly after staring at it for half hour but that could just be from flipping the settings around so much (stock store settings are very aggressive).
In related news, costco was selling both 55 6500/6700 models as the 55ju670D/650D, for 1280/1480 iirc.
Tint for white leds at lower current will be bit warmer, but not all that much for the ratio we're talking about here, <<10x.
I'm mostly worried about PWM. I notice it sometimes on a friend's Samsung which I'd guess is 240hz.
So, I'm watching this thread VERY closely, and unfortunately, its taken a turn for the worse.
Seinfeld, Brahmzy, and Cyph all experience blurring in games. (I think) all of them are sending their panels back.
SixFootDuo thinks the panel is the best for games and loves it. But seems to game primarily in 4k. (So I worry he is blinded by the brilliance of 4k gaming)
I'm would use this panel primarily for games, and I see three of the biggest proponents are sending it back due to various blurring issues.
I'm going to pair this with a 9800 (or 9800ti if they release it this summer). I'd rather not do SLI, instead keep a single powerful (AND QUIET) card. (can't afford a Titan)
This means that i'm probably not going to be able to run 50% of the games in 4k. (which somewhat discounts sixfooxduo's praise)
This tells me gaming will be blurry when there is fast motion and I should probably forget my dream of a 40" monitor and instead get the 27" ROG Swift 1440p gsync/144hz for crystal clear smooth gaming.
DAMMIT!!! I was so close... at least it will be an upgrade from my 24" dell 1920x1200
I've been waffling back and forth for a bit.
I really don't have the time or energy for a bake off where I return one through the mail (ugh)...
The heart wants the 40", but the gut says get the gaming focused monitor (ROG swift).
Anyone disagree with my assessments? Opinions please.
Thanks
-Mike
Seinfeld, Brahmzy, and Cyph all experience blurring in games. (I think) all of them are sending their panels back.
SixFootDuo thinks the panel is the best for games and loves it. But seems to game primarily in 4k. (So I worry he is blinded by the brilliance of 4k gaming)
I'm would use this panel primarily for games, and I see three of the biggest proponents are sending it back due to various blurring issues.
I'm going to pair this with a 9800 (or 9800ti if they release it this summer). I'd rather not do SLI, instead keep a single powerful (AND QUIET) card. (can't afford a Titan)
This means that i'm probably not going to be able to run 50% of the games in 4k. (which somewhat discounts sixfooxduo's praise)
This tells me gaming will be blurry when there is fast motion and I should probably forget my dream of a 40" monitor and instead get the 27" ROG Swift 1440p gsync/144hz for crystal clear smooth gaming.
DAMMIT!!! I was so close... at least it will be an upgrade from my 24" dell 1920x1200
I've been waffling back and forth for a bit.
I really don't have the time or energy for a bake off where I return one through the mail (ugh)...
The heart wants the 40", but the gut says get the gaming focused monitor (ROG swift).
Anyone disagree with my assessments? Opinions please.
Thanks
-Mike
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The way rtings measures "motion blur" is not representative of how most video is shot/watched. Regardless both have identical PWM artifact on their motion cam:
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju7100/ju7100-motion-blur-medium.jpg
http://www.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju6500/ju6500-motion-blur-medium.jpg
People seem to consider anything and everything to be "blur", including the exact opposite of blur exhibited in the images just above.
To clarify mcgowen7, the 7500, not the 6700, is tolerable for me in the blur dept. After playing enough FPS this evening, it passes for me.
What doesn't pass is the PWM of either panel - not by a longshot, which is why I'm sending 'em back.
This tiny white box I'm typing in looks like a box of strobe light on this thing, just as it did the 6700, regardless of any settings I make. I'm one of the lucky few that cannot take the 120hz flicker. It makes me physically ill after a while.
What doesn't pass is the PWM of either panel - not by a longshot, which is why I'm sending 'em back.
This tiny white box I'm typing in looks like a box of strobe light on this thing, just as it did the 6700, regardless of any settings I make. I'm one of the lucky few that cannot take the 120hz flicker. It makes me physically ill after a while.
Lateralus
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It is great for gaming. I'm perfectly content with the 6700 but we tend to geek out in search of perfection.
I'm not sure if I will end up trying the 7500, but I've experienced 27" 120 Hz. gaming and I will NOT be returning my Samsung to go back to a smaller, faster display.
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You are comparing two panels, at opposite end of the spectrum. If you're a twitch gamer, then get a 144hz. If you do desktop work half the time, 4k makes sense. Based on your preference for games, I think you should go with the 27". The Samsung is more versatile, it is a TV, a monitor, a 21:9 1440p panel, a 1440p letterbox at 27", or a 40" 1080p. It's also a Plex movie and 4k streamer (eventually). One thing it is not is a 144hz Gsync monitor.
^^^ are you still in your return window?
I'd seriously look into the 7500. Not to dissuade a brother from his contentment, of course!
If PWM is a nonissue for you it is the best of everything. Just beautiful.