Samsung 840EVO Running at slower speed

T

TekRok

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 9, 2005
Messages
2,279
Ive had this drive for about 2 years, never really ran into any issues. The said slow speeds arent very noticeable doing day to day operations, gaming, etc. Its only after I ran the Samsung benchmark and other software which showed the drive is working considerably slower.

Its a 500GB 840EVO model.
Advertised speeds, Read up to 540mb, Write up to 520mb.
I get 401 Read, 381 Write no matter how many optimizations I run. Is this normal? Or should I be contacting Samsung?
http://postimg.org/image/w7y17yai3/
 
I am somewhat hesitant in running that software, I heard a lot of problems after which werent present before. How safe is it to run?
 
That is probably all you can do outside of creating an image/clone of your drive then doing a secure erase followed by restoring your image.
 
Magician reports an up to date firmware even if the restoration fix is not applied.
The reason for that is probably that it cannot be applied by Magician but only by a separate tool.
 
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8997/...0-evo-performance-another-fix-is-in-the-works

"These more recent performance issues and now Samsung’s statement make it clear that the issue is unfortunately not as fixed as Samsung initially thought it would be. At this point Samsung isn’t saying what the root cause of this latest issue is, but it’s likely that this is a continuation of the original issue. In any case the upshot is that Samsung believes the issue can be corrected, however given the last fix it’s not clear whether this next fix will be any more a permanent fix than the last one."

Samsung's previous fix isn't working so Samsung went back to the drawing board as of the 20th of Feb. 2015. I would suggest you hold off on trying to fix it until Samsung has finally released a proper fix (which is yet to happen).
 
Yea I figured. The restoration fix didnt do anything. Read speeds actually went down slightly. Seems the Pro versions arent affected by this, but makes me think twice before buying another Samsung SSD.

Whats a good alternative?
 
Igroock said:
Yea I figured. The restoration fix didnt do anything. Read speeds actually went down slightly. Seems the Pro versions arent affected by this, but makes me think twice before buying another Samsung SSD.

Whats a good alternative?
Click to expand...

The Pro series as well as the older 830 are not TLC based. From what I remember reading Anandtech, who published the theory of this issue, it seems that the root lies in how TLC's read levels shift over time, and an algorithm must be able to compensate as you use the drive. That means, as long as Samsung hasn't solved this TLC issue, stay away from all TLC drives, because all other SSD TLC based drives came after Samsung's success with the 840 and 840 EVO.

As for good alternatives, it depends on how much you are willing to pay for essentially diminishing returns in the SATA SSD market. At the most economical/performance end, you got the Crucial MX100, MX200s. There are now also great discounts on the Intel 730s periodically. Some of that OCZ stuff (which I do not recommend) are dirt cheap on discount sales. At Newegg recently, the price of the Intel 730 and other good SSDs are basically cheaper than the TLC based Samsungs, which makes them a no brainer if you want a good price to performance ratio. Top end wise, the Sandisk Extreme Pros are close to the Samsung 850 Pros, but are less durable in writes/lifetime. You get what you paid for, BUT, the last incremental increases in performance will cost you a lot in the SSD market, very diminishing returns (a decrease of a few seconds read time typically for an extra 100 dollars or 200 depending on capacity).
 
I would love a dollar for every time I see threads were people buy cheap Evo's and expect performance.

Buy a Pro and stop being tight.
 
Lost-Benji said:
I would love a dollar for every time I see threads were people buy cheap Evo's and expect performance.

Buy a Pro and stop being tight.
Click to expand...
No one complained, so I dont why you showed up with an attitude. I bought the drive more than 2 years ago for $325, its not exactly cheap, and those issues werent present when I used it. It degraded over time.
 
Igroock said:
No one complained, so I dont why you showed up with an attitude. I bought the drive more than 2 years ago for $325, its not exactly cheap, and those issues werent present when I used it. It degraded over time.
Click to expand...

The Samsung drives were definitely good choices back then before this unfixed problem surfaced. I can't imagine everyone wants to or put that much priority in SSDs on every build. If I were to buy today, I'd go with what is cheaper for a non-critical build.
 
So what does everyone think? Will it be fixable by firmware/software updates in the future? mine is running at a slow random read speed of 61905(iops) but the sequential read speed says 540(MB's), which appears just at the bottom of acceptable in their bar.

It's not a huge deal yet, but it's really a shame getting a good large size ssd hoping it will last for many years to come and then this issue that slowly gets worse. :(

I assume there will never be any replacement service if it can't be fixed with software updates since I've had it for quite a while? or some sort of discounted upgrade would appreciated!

First my Sandybridge MB sata 2 port's speed began crumbling down (but I was able to buy a sata pci card to fix the issue), now this. :( :| :(
 
Last edited:
Maxx_Power said:
The Pro series as well as the older 830 are not TLC based. From what I remember reading Anandtech, who published the theory of this issue, it seems that the root lies in how TLC's read levels shift over time, and an algorithm must be able to compensate as you use the drive. That means, as long as Samsung hasn't solved this TLC issue, stay away from all TLC drives, because all other SSD TLC based drives came after Samsung's success with the 840 and 840 EVO.

As for good alternatives, it depends on how much you are willing to pay for essentially diminishing returns in the SATA SSD market. At the most economical/performance end, you got the Crucial MX100, MX200s. There are now also great discounts on the Intel 730s periodically. Some of that OCZ stuff (which I do not recommend) are dirt cheap on discount sales. At Newegg recently, the price of the Intel 730 and other good SSDs are basically cheaper than the TLC based Samsungs, which makes them a no brainer if you want a good price to performance ratio. Top end wise, the Sandisk Extreme Pros are close to the Samsung 850 Pros, but are less durable in writes/lifetime. You get what you paid for, BUT, the last incremental increases in performance will cost you a lot in the SSD market, very diminishing returns (a decrease of a few seconds read time typically for an extra 100 dollars or 200 depending on capacity).
Click to expand...
What about the Samsung 850PRO? Its a 3-D Vertical memory, how is that compared to MLC? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3FA2EV1099
 
Igroock said:
What about the Samsung 850PRO? Its a 3-D Vertical memory, how is that compared to MLC? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA3FA2EV1099
Click to expand...


The 850 Pro is still MLC based. The geometry (layout) of the NAND cells has changed from planar to vertical. The reason is that as you shrink the fabrication process to smaller planar dimensions (we're at 10-20nm for NAND right now), the cell volume decreases and thus the longevity of the NAND decreases. Fabricating a cell upwards allows you to recover some of that lost volume (think building tall buildings instead of suburban houses for the same foot print).

Regardless, the vertical NAND is just a geometry that seems to have just a TAD bit more endurance per cell than the planar parts for now. The way you store bits inside that cell can still be SLC/MLC/TLC. The 850 Pro is a MLC part, the EVOs are TLC.

The Sandisk Ultra IIs are also TLC, FYI, but this slowdown problem isn't reported on those, as of yet.
 
[U]ber|Noob;1041454930 said:
So what does everyone think? Will it be fixable by firmware/software updates in the future? mine is running at a slow random read speed of 61905(iops) but the sequential read speed says 540(MB's), which appears just at the bottom of acceptable in their bar.

It's not a huge deal yet, but it's really a shame getting a good large size ssd hoping it will last for many years to come and then this issue that slowly gets worse. :(

I assume there will never be any replacement service if it can't be fixed with software updates since I've had it for quite a while? or some sort of discounted upgrade would appreciated!

First my Sandybridge MB sata 2 port's speed began crumbling down (but I was able to buy a sata pci card to fix the issue), now this. :( :| :(
Click to expand...

I currently think the slowdown problem is fixable with a proper firmware in the future. Samsung appears to be working hard on this issue.

As for those who currently experience the slowdowns, if they are not severe enough to bother you, my advice is, be patient, have a nice tea and wait for Samsung. If I am Samsung, I would definitely offer a rebate cheque to all verified owners, but I am not...
 
Windows is noticeable slower to boot, although it's possible it's for other reasons, but I doubt it because I haven't installed any more start-up apps etc.

It also isn't that good that I bought two, well for someone else, but both bought at the same time.

I'll have to keep updated with this issue, with my MB there was a replacement service but at the time I just couldn't be bothered taking everything out including the cpu and getting more thermal paste etc, so I left it for a while, then I decided to later and they wouldn't even reply to my emails (not Samsung btw.) and the shop didn't want to know about it.

I'm worried if it's beyond replacement warranty they might not offer anything even if it is a known fault that can't be fixed. :(

Do you think it is likely if there is a firmware fix in the future, it will be a proper fix, or the type of fix that wears the ssd out a lot faster but sort of fixes the slowdown issue?
 
I've not noticed any slowing with my two 840 Evo 500GB drives. I used the Performance Restoration Utility on both a few months ago. Things seem fine, at least for now.
 
I hope this issue doesn't affect any of my other ssds which are:
Vertex 2 OCZ - 64gb
Kingston svp200s37a240g - 240gb
Kingspec c300.6 - 32gb
 
[U]ber|Noob;1041456342 said:
Windows is noticeable slower to boot, although it's possible it's for other reasons, but I doubt it because I haven't installed any more start-up apps etc.

It also isn't that good that I bought two, well for someone else, but both bought at the same time.

I'll have to keep updated with this issue, with my MB there was a replacement service but at the time I just couldn't be bothered taking everything out including the cpu and getting more thermal paste etc, so I left it for a while, then I decided to later and they wouldn't even reply to my emails (not Samsung btw.) and the shop didn't want to know about it.

I'm worried if it's beyond replacement warranty they might not offer anything even if it is a known fault that can't be fixed. :(

Do you think it is likely if there is a firmware fix in the future, it will be a proper fix, or the type of fix that wears the ssd out a lot faster but sort of fixes the slowdown issue?
Click to expand...

How long have you had the drives ? If you are within the return window, I would say you should try returning them or replacing them with a different SSD. There is no point buying and holding onto a brand new set of drives that there are known problems yet to be solved. Besides, if you don't want to wait, here is what Anandtech said:

"These more recent performance issues and now Samsung’s statement make it clear that the issue is unfortunately not as fixed as Samsung initially thought it would be. At this point Samsung isn’t saying what the root cause of this latest issue is, but it’s likely that this is a continuation of the original issue. In any case the upshot is that Samsung believes the issue can be corrected, however given the last fix it’s not clear whether this next fix will be any more a permanent fix than the last one."

So essentially, there is no guarantee that this issue will be fixed this time or next time around. Samsung hasn't even told anyone what the root cause this time is.

If you want to hold onto them or can't return them, then consider that they are still thus-far reliable drives. You should be able to use them for OS/games/etc without worry.
 
Last edited:
Tyler-Durden said:
I've not noticed any slowing with my two 840 Evo 500GB drives. I used the Performance Restoration Utility on both a few months ago. Things seem fine, at least for now.
Click to expand...

I think the way it works to notice the slowdown is to leave data on the drive for a while (a few weeks to months) then read older data, from what I have read.
 
I been a owner of the 840Pro 512gb for a couple of years now, and been perfect. Also own some msata 840Evos in raid, and they do suffer from the slow down, personally for the future im either going with the pro versions, or if i need a value oriented ssds im going with Crucial.
 
Indeed lesson learned. Ive owned my 840Evo 500GB for over 2 years so the slowdown is definitely there, 360/520 /330/500 speeds. But there was no way of knowing it would be like this at that time. If i were buying a new drive now It would definitely be the options mentioned in this thread, but most likely an 850 Vertical drive. TLC is not worth the trouble whether they fix it or not.
 
TLC nand is showing its weakness. Samsung overestimated its endurance. I for one no longer trust TLC and have removed all my Samsung TLC drives.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top