Elder Scrolls Online going B2P!

F2P doesn't mean it has to be Pay to Win, but in many cases it is. Often enough that the stereotype exists in the first place.
 
Kardonxt said:
F2P doesn't mean it has to be Pay to Win, but in many cases it is. Often enough that the stereotype exists in the first place.
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True pay to win is pretty rare and the games that try tend to flop.
 
1.6 PTS notes came out which is the major overhaul and champion system addition patch that the B2P conversion will launch with... very impressive and much-needed changes, additions, and fixes there. I think I'll be picking the game back up once they do the switchover!
 
limitedaccess said:
P2W nowadays has a beyond literal meaning in which people are referring to game play affecting advantages via money spent.

The "boosters" you mention which convey a time advantage can be considered among this. If two players of equal ability play an average of 40 hours a week, the one who is buying boosters will be ahead and essentially bought an advantage. Just like if someone bought a weapon with higher stats, they bought an advantage.
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I hate P2W and in every MMO I've ever played I think calling things like XP potions P2W is complete BS. Someone hitting level cap sooner than me doesn't mean he "won". In most games it makes it more likely he's shit at playing his character and will likely have worse gear than me due to bypassing content.
 
Ragenrok said:
Cool, so does this mean PC xbox and playstation players can all play together? If so this could cause me and a lot of co workers who are spread across systems to give it a try
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PC and PS4 could be able to play together but Microsoft will not allow cross-platform multiplayer. However, PC and PS4 users will not be playing together.
Frankie said:
I hate P2W and in every MMO I've ever played I think calling things like XP potions P2W is complete BS.
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Many people say that but also want free to play. They have to make money somehow.

I'd prefer a MMO to be subscription with no micro transactions; everyone in the same playing field.

I also think the purchase but free to play model (guild wars/eso) is intriguing but don't know the long term implications or reduced revenue. You could set a low character slot allotment and allow purchases to buy more slots or pay for server transfer or something. Otherwise I don't like paying for in game stuff.
 
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I picked this up on sale a few days ago and have been enjoying it as a solo mmo. It's a nice break from the Wow style mmo. Not sure how long I'll play it but it's worth the $25 I payed for it.
 
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Frankie said:
I hate P2W and in every MMO I've ever played I think calling things like XP potions P2W is complete BS. Someone hitting level cap sooner than me doesn't mean he "won". In most games it makes it more likely he's shit at playing his character and will likely have worse gear than me due to bypassing content.
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Again this is the problem I was referring to, the focus on the literal and semantic argument which bypasses the actual issue. When this issue gets brought what people are really interested in discussing (and concerned about) is the amount of game play advantage paying gives. Not literally that you "win" the game by paying. Unfortunately P2W is the term that has been popularized and we are stuck with it.

Also you might have a rather limited idea how games can be designed to have time sink mechanics (level is just one way) that push a large advantage to those that pay.
 
Take archeage for example. Sure I could play for several years to afford a decent set of armor.... or you could drop a grand in the cash shop and decimate all. End game pvp is all about gear and the only way to get good gear is crafted gear from the AH that is insanely expensive. There are artificial limits on everything you can do inside the game to make money, which prevent people from catching up to the high rollers even if you were willing to play 24/7.
 
limitedaccess said:
Again this is the problem I was referring to, the focus on the literal and semantic argument which bypasses the actual issue. When this issue gets brought what people are really interested in discussing (and concerned about) is the amount of game play advantage paying gives. Not literally that you "win" the game by paying. Unfortunately P2W is the term that has been popularized and we are stuck with it.
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I'm not talking semantics, I'm saying the bonus provided by things like XP boosters are usually so trivial and frequently counterproductive that it shouldn't automatically be considered P2W by anyone's definition of the term.

Double XP in a game like the original EQ would be a pretty big advantage because getting to max level in EQ was relatively difficult and time consuming. I haven't played any modern MMOs where you could say the same thing, though maybe they're out there. I.e. boosters in EQ2? BFD. You end up max level three weeks or a month or whatever sooner and will have a toon with shit gear that you probably don't know how to play worth a damn. That shouldn't be anyone's definition of P2W or winning, if it is you're being way too anal. If that was anyone's definition of P2W in EQ2 then they were a noob and/or so massively casual that I don't really care what they think.

Any game where merely being max level could be construed as any form of "winning" is not a game I want to play.

Also you might have a rather limited idea how games can be designed to have time sink mechanics (level is just one way) that push a large advantage to those that pay.
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Or I might just be using leveling as a convenient term to indicate anything that's a time sink. :rolleyes:
 
Frankie said:
I'm not talking semantics, I'm saying the bonus provided by things like XP boosters are usually so trivial and frequently counterproductive that it shouldn't automatically be considered P2W by anyone's definition of the term.

Double XP in a game like the original EQ would be a pretty big advantage because getting to max level in EQ was relatively difficult and time consuming. I haven't played any modern MMOs where you could say the same thing, though maybe they're out there. I.e. boosters in EQ2? BFD. You end up max level three weeks or a month or whatever sooner and will have a toon with shit gear that you probably don't know how to play worth a damn. That shouldn't be anyone's definition of P2W or winning, if it is you're being way too anal. If that was anyone's definition of P2W in EQ2 then they were a noob and/or so massively casual that I don't really care what they think.

Any game where merely being max level could be construed as any form of "winning" is not a game I want to play.



Or I might just be using leveling as a convenient term to indicate anything that's a time sink. :rolleyes:
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You really are not getting it. Paying money to get something better than someone who has spent the same amount of time but payed nothing is the actual definition. It has nothing to do with "winning" its just the unfortunate name the community has decided to give to this type of model.
 
Stanfiem said:
You really are not getting it. Paying money to get something better than someone who has spent the same amount of time but payed nothing is the actual definition. It has nothing to do with "winning" its just the unfortunate name the community has decided to give to this type of model.
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Stop saying the community it's just a few of you twisting p2w to your own definition.
 
It sounds like you guys haven't had the unfortunate experience of playing some F2P games that truly gave paying players obscene advantages to the point of being a night and day experience.
 
If you want to see P2W, look at pretty much any Nexon game. They all revolve around crafting with rare materials that are either extremely expensive or untradable (must be purchased in real cash). Of course the outcome of said items is completely random to promote dumping hundreds of dollars on them to get the item you want. Other examples include unlocking class abilities (that aren't available any other way), needing a permit to actually sell things in trade, etc. They pretty much invented the ridiculous 'loot crates' that so many games use today (except you use tickets on a lottery machine instead of crates, same random screw-you-over results though).
 
Parmenides said:
Are any MMO's not about the grind and not about PTW?
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Every MMO is about grinding. Most big name MMO's aren't P2W. SWTOR is the most annoying MMO as they damn near force you to subscribe to get past certain gates like the number of times you can PvP in a day. But for the most part most aren't P2W.

An example of P2W is the game APB. They sell guns on their market that can only come from the market. If you run across a person decked out with market items you might as well just bend over and spread your butt cheeks.
 
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