Remember in 2015 we will turn it around... #nopreorders

Derangel said:
And if people had paid fucking attention to both of those games they wouldn't have pre-ordered them in the first place. People love to bring up WD, ACM, Unity, etc as proof of no pre-ordering but it's not like those games ending up poorly was a surprise. Even though no one could have guessed the extent of Unity's issues, Ubi had more than proved itself untrustworthy. This is even more true on the PC side. After how shit the port of Black Flag was at launch that should have been a great sign for people to stop and go "maybe I should wait" then Watch_Dogs hit and was a bad game. With Aliens, I don't care how big a fan you are of the movies buying Pitchford's shit about loving the franchise and wanting to make a game for fans was idiotic. I don't blame Gearbox for DNF but Pitchford was in full bullshit mode when promoting that one as well.
Click to expand...

I agree with your point. But I personally liked Watch Dogs, I preordered it on the XB1. I didn't get it on the PC because the past few ports weren't good. So I wasn't going to take the risk on that by getting it on the PC. I also preordered AC unity which was a little disappointing. I still enjoyed it becuase I'm a fan of the series. The issues I had with the game wouldn't changed if didn't preorder or got the game 3 days after it launched.

Like DNF was a bad game. There is no way preorders made that game any worse then what it was.

The reality the person who can't handle buying a bad or broken game. Should never preorder a game or get it launch day or week for that matter. I have no sympathy for someone that preordered a game and didn't like it.

I preordered FFXIII on the PC and it ended up being a crappy port. I didn't bitch about it, I learned my lesson. When FFXIII-2 came out I didn't preorder it, I waited for the reviews to see if there were any major problems.
 
Last edited:
I have never pre ordered anyway so there is nothing to turn around in my life. (At least in this instance. :D)
 
MavericK96 said:
Last time I checked, this wasn't Reddit, but okay.
Click to expand...

That's sort of my point. This isn't Reddit, yet here we are dealing with its spew.

piscian18 said:
It's to the point multiple criticaI review sites are coming out against pre-ordering period. You're just cupping your ears and going "LLALALALA". Theres nothing I can do for that.
Click to expand...

Your argument is that everyone else is doing it, therefore it's correct? Give me a break. A bunch of people with microphones are incorrect about a topic and have turned a non-sequitur into a meme. I'm not obligated to agree with them as a result.

You have a serious case of projection.
 
qbanb8582 said:
You don't have to preorder it you go through the samething buying the game day one or day 7. Only difference someone chose to preorder it. Its not as apples to oranges as you would expect. You go to movie theater and the movie sucks. You're not entitled to refund. Buy a pack of trading cards open it not get what you want and try to return it.
Click to expand...

There is a huge difference between pre-ordering and buying on day 1, day 7, or any other day afterwards. The difference is that you can KNOW whether or not the game sucks because you have had the opportunity to read reviews, user comments, and other materials that allow you to make an informed decision.

Movies are a somewhat similar example, except in almost all cases there are pre-screenings where critics can see the film and release a review before you ever even go to see the movie on day one. So there is the major difference there.

Trading cards are apples and oranges. You are knowingly gambling on the contents of the package. I guess with video games you can pre-order and gamble too (and that's exactly what you are doing when you pre-order games) but personally I'd rather not gamble at $60 a pop...maybe that's just me.

qbanb8582 said:
The problem isn't preordering the problem is the games are bad and buggy. I doubt if no one preordered it and everyone bought it on launch day it would've been any less buggy.
Click to expand...

I agree, that is the real problem, but ask yourself this: If people continue to pre-order games that end up being bad and buggy (especially from companies that consistently put out buggy games), what incentive is there for a developer/publisher to improve the quality of their games?

If no one pre-ordered games and then did not buy them until a sale/many patches because they were buggy, you can be damn sure companies would up their QA game when they start losing money.

qbanb8582 said:
That is like me going to see a movie at the theater, hating the movie. Then blaming the movie theater and movie industry. Then start a stupid movement like #nomovietheaters2015 because I can't handle seeing a bad movie and paying for it.
Click to expand...

Soo...if a movie is bad, you don't blame the movie industry? Who exactly is responsible other than the people who made the movie? :confused: I don't feel this is analogous at all to the pre-ordering situation. People want people to THINK first about pre-ordering, because the more people pre-order games that end up being buggy/incomplete, the less developers/publishers are going to improve because there is no financial incentive to improve.
 
Terpfen said:
That's sort of my point. This isn't Reddit, yet here we are dealing with its spew.
Click to expand...

My point was that I didn't see a whole lot of people here on [H] using that argument, but maybe I missed a post or two somewhere.

I guess, like I mentioned above, you could indirectly relate bugginess to amount of pre-orders in that the more pre-orders a game has and the more money the developer gets, the less incentive there is to squash bugs because they already have their money. But yes, there have been buggy games since the beginning of gaming. In the same vein, one could even potentially argue that games have become buggier since broadband Internet has been widely available, due to large patches being much easier to push out on a regular basis after release. Same with digital distribution in general. So it's not 100% pre-orders, but they do invariably play a role since what these companies care about more than anything else is their bottom line.
 
Last edited:
MavericK96 said:
There is a huge difference between pre-ordering and buying on day 1, day 7, or any other day afterwards. The difference is that you can KNOW whether or not the game sucks because you have had the opportunity to read reviews, user comments, and other materials that allow you to make an informed decision.

Movies are a somewhat similar example, except in almost all cases there are pre-screenings where critics can see the film and release a review before you ever even go to see the movie on day one. So there is the major difference there.

Trading cards are apples and oranges. You are knowingly gambling on the contents of the package. I guess with video games you can pre-order and gamble too (and that's exactly what you are doing when you pre-order games) but personally I'd rather not gamble at $60 a pop...maybe that's just me.



I agree, that is the real problem, but ask yourself this: If people continue to pre-order games that end up being bad and buggy (especially from companies that consistently put out buggy games), what incentive is there for a developer/publisher to improve the quality of their games?

If no one pre-ordered games and then did not buy them until a sale/many patches because they were buggy, you can be damn sure companies would up their QA game when they start losing money.



Soo...if a movie is bad, you don't blame the movie industry? Who exactly is responsible other than the people who made the movie? :confused: I don't feel this is analogous at all to the pre-ordering situation. People want people to THINK first about pre-ordering, because the more people pre-order games that end up being buggy/incomplete, the less developers/publishers are going to improve because there is no financial incentive to improve.
Click to expand...

I blame the makers but not the industry. That goes for games and movies.

If I preorder a bad game my beef isn't going to be because I preordered it. Its going to be a because I bought a bad game regardless. The process in which I got them game isn't the problem.

I've gotten bad games before. I don't cry about it. I'm just more reluctant to buy a product from that company or developer in the future. Some games I'll do more research then others.

I preordered Halo 5. If there is a review on it I actually won't look at it. If the game ends up sucking I'm not going to cry about it. I'll just be more vigilant when it comes to getting future games from Microsoft or 343.
 
the only thing i really really want right now is the DBZ game... or dying light... but dying light came out already
 
So apparently WB have done the same with Dying Light as they did with Shadow of Mordor - simply don't let people put out material of the game before launch unless they have signed a brand deal contract dictating their content.

This is bullshit. I mean, I'll take it over full blown NDA and SoM was a good game anyway, but this is still just hype generation putting the consumer at a disadvantage.
 
I wont pre-order any PC titles

However, Wii-U and 3DS titles, heh.
 
Mokkat said:
So apparently WB have done the same with Dying Light as they did with Shadow of Mordor - simply don't let people put out material of the game before launch unless they have signed a brand deal contract dictating their content.

This is bullshit. I mean, I'll take it over full blown NDA and SoM was a good game anyway, but this is still just hype generation putting the consumer at a disadvantage.
Click to expand...

Sounds like dying light is having the same issues Dead Island did. It's a shame how often untested games are getting rushed out the doors these days. It's usually a publisher thing but the developer will still get blamed.

Speaking of streamers and NDAs I tried to watch streams of DL yesterday its really gross how money obsessed streamers are. I watched this guy for about 10 minutes trying to get an idea of how the game was but all he did was jammer on and on about subscribers and stopping to make this massive deal everyone someone donated and how everyone in the the chat should pat him on the back etc etc and the guy I watched is one of the really popular ones. Seemed like a complete ass-douche to me. Feels like you can't even trust people to just play the fucking game so you can get a read on it now that you also have PR companies locking them down to circle jerk fests.
 
Terpfen said:
That's sort of my point. This isn't Reddit, yet here we are dealing with its spew.
Click to expand...
The problems with pre-ordering have been spouted for years and years and years even by the most major review publications.

Why are you allowing what Reddit does or doesn't support to affect your decision? Its completely irrelevant. Whether pre-ordering is good or bad for the industry and consumers is based on the arguments presented in this thread combined with your own common sense and knowledge of recent history.

http://kotaku.com/5909105/stop-preordering-video-games-please

I love the peeps that think they are so edgy though... its like people complaining that the living room stinks, and then they proclaim they farted. Not sure what the desired result is... except that its now quotable to mock them later if they complain the developers lied about aspects of the game or its a bugged launch, etc. I'm so going to be a "I told you so" schmuck, and feel high and mighty as captain Moral Superiority. :D
qbanb8582 said:
I blame the makers but not the industry.

If I preorder a bad game my beef isn't going to be because I preordered it. Its going to be a because I bought a bad game regardless. The process in which I got them game isn't the problem.
Click to expand...
Of course it is.

Its an entirely different business model, and there is a price for that. Why do you think these media blackouts occur, and we're not getting any reviews until after launch? Why do you think we have these nonsensical copyright takedown notices for negative reviews? Why do you think we have such horrible game launches and so much money spent on marketing an idea of a game, than worrying about the actual first-impression of launch? Its because of a pre-order business model that focuses on getting a majority of revenue selling a game that no one has seen. That way you're in the business of selling a concept for a game with 100% control over bullshit fake trailers and marketing that don't at all reflect what the real game will be like, instead of a focus on a final product since its launch and online reviews will make or break the game's success.

And the process by which you got the game is exactly WHY you got f'd in the ass. If you read all the reviews, watched the "lets play" videos, listened to the community about how the launch experience was and so forth, you'd be able to make an informed decision. If you pre-ordered the game though, quite often you have no information whatsoever except from the promises of the developer. That's AWESOME for the developer to take your money site unseen, but going "full retard" in the risk/reward relationship IMO when it comes to getting screwed over with high hopes on what ends up being a crap game. And even for games you might think you already know, like the port of GTAIV, sure you might know you want that game, but do you know in advance if the port will be good or half-assed? Remember GTAIV is listed as one of the worst ports at launch of any game in the last decade.

Remember, for most pre-orders, after the game launches and you actually get to play it, even for just 15 mins, its next to impossible to get a refund. And with digital-downloads, you can still play the game on day one if you want after the hush-hush is over with open eyes so you really don't even lose anything time wise compared to pre-ordering.
 
Last edited:
Ducman69 said:
The problems with pre-ordering have been spouted for years and years and years even by the most major review publications.

Why are you allowing what Reddit does or doesn't support to affect your decision? Its completely irrelevant. Whether pre-ordering is good or bad for the industry and consumers is based on the arguments presented in this thread combined with your own common sense and knowledge of recent history.

http://kotaku.com/5909105/stop-preordering-video-games-please

I love the peeps that think they are so edgy though... its like people complaining that the living room stinks, and then they proclaim they farted. Not sure what the desired result is... except that its now quotable to mock them later if they complain the developers lied about aspects of the game or its a bugged launch, etc. I'm so going to be a "I told you so" schmuck, and feel high and mighty as captain Moral Superiority. :D

Of course it is.

Its an entirely different business model, and there is a price for that. Why do you think these media blackouts occur, and we're not getting any reviews until after launch? Why do you think we have these nonsensical copyright takedown notices for negative reviews? Why do you think we have such horrible game launches and so much money spent on marketing an idea of a game, than worrying about the actual first-impression of launch? Its because of a pre-order business model that focuses on getting a majority of revenue selling a game that no one has seen. That way you're in the business of selling a concept for a game with 100% control over bullshit fake trailers and marketing that don't at all reflect what the real game will be like, instead of a focus on a final product since its launch and online reviews will make or break the game's success.

And the process by which you got the game is exactly WHY you got f'd in the ass. If you read all the reviews, watched the "lets play" videos, listened to the community about how the launch experience was and so forth, you'd be able to make an informed decision. If you pre-ordered the game though, quite often you have no information whatsoever except from the promises of the developer. That's AWESOME for the developer to take your money site unseen, but going "full retard" in the risk/reward relationship IMO when it comes to getting screwed over with high hopes on what ends up being a crap game. And even for games you might think you already know, like the port of GTAIV, sure you might know you want that game, but do you know in advance if the port will be good or half-assed? Remember GTAIV is listed as one of the worst ports at launch of any game in the last decade.

Remember, for most pre-orders, after the game launches and you actually get to play it, even for just 15 mins, its next to impossible to get a refund. And with digital-downloads, you can still play the game on day one if you want after the hush-hush is over with open eyes so you really don't even lose anything time wise compared to pre-ordering.
Click to expand...

Here is the deal if I was going to use reviews and lets play videos then I wouldn't preorder the game in the first place. I made the decision to preorder and get the game without looking at reviews, so I take the responsibility regardless. The consumer is not forced to preorder. They may feel that way because the publisher are giving incentives to do so.
 
qbanb8582 said:
Here is the deal if I was going to use reviews and lets play videos then I wouldn't preorder the game in the first place. I made the decision to preorder and get the game without looking at reviews, so I take the responsibility regardless. The consumer is not forced to preorder. They may feel that way because the publisher are giving incentives to do so.
Click to expand...
Literally no one has ever said that anyone was FORCED to pre-order, so I don't understand what your rebuttal is.

The process by which you got the game goes against your (and gamers in general) best interests, so don't repeat that process... that's the point. ;)
 
I will continue to pre-order simply out of spite ... I don't like being told what to voluntarily do with my money.
 
I was forced to buy that $40,000 car because it was HALF OFF and I SAVED $40,000 and 40k - 40k = 0k I PAYED NOTHING YAYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!
 
Draax said:
I will continue to pre-order simply out of spite ... I don't like being told what to voluntarily do with my money.
Click to expand...

That's a really silly way of looking at it. A bunch of big corporations are telling you to spend your money on their products to get super uber DLC mittens +1, versus people here that are telling you to save your money until reviews are out about game and the super uber DLC mittens +1...and you're refusing to be told what to do by the people here but agreeing to be told what to do by the big corporations?

Either way, you're being told what to do with your money.
 
I'm going to stop pre-ordering because the 'incentives' are getting out of hand. A different skin for a weapon I'm fine with, but when maps or dlc start to become pre-order incentives it makes me pause. Combined with the whole review embargo thing I am done.

Along with that, I'm pretty much done buying games day 1 unless they have a strong multiplayer portion. I can wait 4-6 months, or more likely a year or two before playing a single player only game.
 
Draax said:
I will continue to pre-order simply out of spite ... I don't like being told what to voluntarily do with my money.
Click to expand...
Because the industry isn't spending millions of dollars every year for the last decade telling you to pre-order...

Or were you spiting them first and then this is like the double spite... Doesn't that cancel out and now you have to give up gaming and take up larping instead out of double spite? :D
 
Ducman69 said:
Because the industry isn't spending millions of dollars every year for the last decade telling you to pre-order...

Or were you spiting them first and then this is like the double spite... Doesn't that cancel out and now you have to give up gaming and take up larping instead out of double spite? :D
Click to expand...


Yet we continue to badger the gaming industry versus hypocritical purchases such as new cars, clothing, fancy vacations, elite 4-6k PC machines, my motorcycles, fancy dinners etc...

Yet spending $5 on a preorder is the end of the world. 0_o
 
SRTie4k said:
That's a really silly way of looking at it. A bunch of big corporations are telling you to spend your money on their products to get super uber DLC mittens +1, versus people here that are telling you to save your money until reviews are out about game and the super uber DLC mittens +1...and you're refusing to be told what to do by the people here but agreeing to be told what to do by the big corporations?

Either way, you're being told what to do with your money.
Click to expand...

I want no part in a bunch of whiners who want me to not pre-order so they can hypothetically get better games, selfishly, for themselves. Your hyperbole regarding mittens +1 misses the fact that pre-order DLC may have more value to someone other than yourself. If you don't like pre-orders ... don't pre-order but perhaps it is wise to understand that how I spend my money has nothing to do with you.
 
Draax said:
I want no part in a bunch of whiners who want me to not pre-order so they can hypothetically get better games, selfishly, for themselves. Your hyperbole regarding mittens +1 misses the fact that pre-order DLC may have more value to someone other than yourself. If you don't like pre-orders ... don't pre-order but perhaps it is wise to understand that how I spend my money has nothing to do with you.
Click to expand...

Do what you want, nobody here is going to force you not to pre-order, neither do we have millions of dollars to put into marketing to convince the sheep to do something with their money like the big game devs. If you want to continue being a sheep corralled into spending money on purposely segmented and half finished products, that's your choice and we can't stop you.
 
SRTie4k said:
Do what you want, nobody here is going to force you not to pre-order, neither do we have millions of dollars to put into marketing to convince the sheep to do something with their money like the big game devs. If you want to continue being a sheep corralled into spending money on purposely segmented and half finished products, that's your choice and we can't stop you.
Click to expand...

So me making up my own mind rather than letting someone else determine the value of DLC and/or any pre-order bonuses and then dictating these beliefs to me makes me a sheep?

See the difference between the "evil" corporations and yourself is that the corporations let me decide what value I place on the incentives they offer whereas you just want to force your belief, as to the values of these incentives, on others. It is time to reevaluate your definition of sheep.
 
Draax said:
I want no part in a bunch of whiners who want me to not pre-order so they can hypothetically get better games, selfishly, for themselves. Your hyperbole regarding mittens +1 misses the fact that pre-order DLC may have more value to someone other than yourself. If you don't like pre-orders ... don't pre-order but perhaps it is wise to understand that how I spend my money has nothing to do with you.
Click to expand...

Not sure if trolling or just stupid.

:confused:
 
Eshelmen said:
Yet we continue to badger the gaming industry versus hypocritical purchases such as new cars, clothing, fancy vacations, elite 4-6k PC machines, my motorcycles, fancy dinners etc...

Yet spending $5 on a preorder is the end of the world. 0_o
Click to expand...
Hypocritical?

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Unless of course you believe that the auto, fashion, motorcycle, and PC hardware industry have adopted a business model whereby they invoke media embargos and get a lion's share of their income based on pre-orders of the equipment site unseen to the user based only on their own marketing material.

If I were regularly pre-ordering a brand new model never before seen "Mitsubishi Bastardo Turbo" that I have never looked at save for some marketing pics, with no reviews, and no option for refund after the release date, with a special red-stitching or a matching baseball cap option available only to pre-orders, and so forth, absolutely that would be hypocritical.

But I do wait for the release of a car and read reviews and peer info and kick the tires and usually drive it around the block before buying, try on jeans before throwing them in my shopping cart, and read extensive reviews and benchmarks for my recent expensive R9 295x2 before buying... no blind pre-ordering nonsense. Soooooo......... yeah, no.
Draax said:
See the difference between the "evil" corporations and yourself is that the corporations let me decide what value I place on the incentives they offer whereas you just want to force your belief, as to the values of these incentives, on others. It is time to reevaluate your definition of sheep.
Click to expand...
Uhhhh, everyone is letting you do what you want, unless there's a forum member that is currently holding a gun to your head in a new hardcore "No-Preorder or Die" campaign... lol!

Corporations are spending millions and millions of dollars spamming you relentlessly to convince you to pre-order their shit.

The gaming community at large created a couple threads and articles on the internet to convince you not to pre-order their shit.

The only difference is that corporations have professionals with huge budgets, and we're just random schmucks on the internet trying to make a convincing argument with IMO sound logic. :)

10274047653_967c97bcc7_o.png
 
I think how you spend your money does have something to do with other people. Just look at all the McDonalds and Starbucks floating around. Just look at all the advertisements and other annoying-as-fuck things plastered everywhere. If people were not so susceptible to marketing there would probably be less junk like that in our lives. It's difficult to ignore that.
 
MavericK96 said:
Your post that he quoted made no fucking sense either so I guess you can call it even.
Click to expand...

There is a clear and distinct difference between not agreeing with something and saying it didn't make sense. I would suggest you learn the difference.
 
Ducman69 said:
I love the peeps that think they are so edgy though... its like people complaining that the living room stinks, and then they proclaim they farted. Not sure what the desired result is... except that its now quotable to mock them later if they complain the developers lied about aspects of the game or its a bugged launch, etc. I'm so going to be a "I told you so" schmuck, and feel high and mighty as captain Moral Superiority. :D
Click to expand...

It's like you read a book on how to make enemies and be disliked. You do understand that attacking the people you're trying to convince is not an effective conversion tactic, correct? Not that linking to Kotaku is a winning move, either. You should also actually attempt to understand the argument being articulated before reflexively dismissing it and piling on the ad hominem nonsense.
 
Terpfen said:
It's like you read a book on how to make enemies and be disliked. You do understand that attacking the people you're trying to convince is not an effective conversion tactic, correct? Not that linking to Kotaku is a winning move, either. You should also actually attempt to understand the argument being articulated before reflexively dismissing it and piling on the ad hominem nonsense.
Click to expand...
So far there hasn't been a counter argument and give me a break, anyone saying "fuck you, I'm going to preorder to spite all of you" is not someone you reason with. ;)

Of course people are going to take offense if there is an implication that their behavior is part of the problem. That's unavoidable.
 
Ducman69 said:
So far there hasn't been a counter argument and give me a break, anyone saying "fuck you, I'm going to preorder to spite all of you" is not someone you reason with. ;)

Of course people are going to take offense if there is an implication that their behavior is part of the problem. That's unavoidable.
Click to expand...

Well, thanks for the confirmation that you don't actually read what you reply to.

I've posted plenty of counter arguments. You conveniently have not quoted them, in part because you quoted a post made in the middle of a sub-discussion and ignored the previous posts.

I don't take offense to you ascribing me to being part of your perceived problem. I just think you're terrible at communication and persuasion. But hey, them strawmen sure do burn purty, don't they?
 
Mario Kart 8 was my last preorder... very disappointed, mostly due to Best Buy backing out on bonus, game is great though. Still i won't pre order again, i should've learned from Battlefield 3.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top