lol, I stand corrected.
My favorite thing to do when somebody is raging at me is say, "Ugh, I'm sorry, normally I'm better than this, but.... My X360 gamepad is acting up today."
They'll lose their minds.
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Far Cry 4 writer calls gamers terrorists
- Thread starter Plague_Injected
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lol, I stand corrected.
My favorite thing to do when somebody is raging at me is say, "Ugh, I'm sorry, normally I'm better than this, but.... My X360 gamepad is acting up today."
They'll lose their minds.
Armenius
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GamerGate was never about the "Locke"/Zoe incident. It exploded after the "Gamers are Dead" articles that were unleashed on August 27-28.
As people dug deeper it was found that associations like Silverstring Media and DiGRA have been trying to shape a generation to leftist ideologies by shaping game content to their own ideals for the past decade, and a lot of members in games media and in fact game development have been complicit in this.
On DiGRA:
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAct...digra_caused_the_end_of_gamers_gamergate_and/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rouq-VdgXdo
On Silverstring Media:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollyw...agging-Zoe-Quinns-Sex-Life-into-the-Spotlight
http://pastebin.com/yRRHpaaH
Gamers are diverse and diversity is a good thing. But why does diversity in gaming have to be something that is forced? I'm sure most people don't play a game and think "This game more is reprehensible for not including a mixed-race transgendered person as one of the main characters," or "I feel guilty playing this game because of the lack of African American representation in the cast." Not everything has a political agenda, and no one should go around inserting one when they might get the slightest bit offended (See the #FullMcIntosh post on the first page). The way you increase diversity is to get more people interested in the craft, not force ideologies in and/or people out. See The Fine Young Capitalists.
Do you know that these people you speak of are probably the same people who chose to live by converting to Islam instead of being executed? So do you think ordinary German citizens should have been killed during World War II because the controlling political party of the country they live in was Nazism?
Krenum
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Yep.
Damn good thing those bombs that fell on Dresden only killed the Nazis.
Who is forcing any company to do anything? Pointing out sexist/racist tropes is not forcing anyone to change anything. Bringing attention to it might possibly alter consumer behavior at the margins. That's what everyone is up in arms about?
Gaming culture is hugely sexist. You don't have to think that GG had anything to do with Quinn -- which is kind of a silly thing to propose -- but what happened to her is an example of that sexism. It also makes the whole "why don't more women just make games" thing seem idiotic. What happened to Quinn is why more women don't make games.
If pointing out that gaming culture is sexist hurts your fee-fees, I'm not really sorry about that.
lilbabycat
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Media, when confronted with the accusation that they are corrupt, paired people with one viewpoint against another. Its political deflection 101.
And oh look, it worked. No one is bothering to ask "Hey, maybe we should expect more from our media?", instead they are discussing whether or not one side is harassing the other. In fact, everyone is just saying "well of course the media is corrupt, whats the problem?!". That's sad. The longer the discussion goes on, the longer the general public gets tired of it. In the end, everything goes back to normal status quo.
Cagey, you're one of us. And according to you we're terrible people. So guess what?
And oh look, it worked. No one is bothering to ask "Hey, maybe we should expect more from our media?", instead they are discussing whether or not one side is harassing the other. In fact, everyone is just saying "well of course the media is corrupt, whats the problem?!". That's sad. The longer the discussion goes on, the longer the general public gets tired of it. In the end, everything goes back to normal status quo.
Cagey, you're one of us. And according to you we're terrible people. So guess what?
http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/11/...ershadows-historic-philae-probe-comet-landing
I saw this rant on TV yesterday, and somewhat related. This man is part of team that planted a man-made object on a comet, in the apex of his life he is brought to tears in the onslaught over his shirt.
This is the fear that some people have with type of political genderization; that great games (and gameplay) will be over shadowed by the commentary of attire and dressings.
Zero Punctuation did a recent review of Bayonetta 2, which is getting a bad rap for her attire but has some real fun game-play.
I saw this rant on TV yesterday, and somewhat related. This man is part of team that planted a man-made object on a comet, in the apex of his life he is brought to tears in the onslaught over his shirt.
This is the fear that some people have with type of political genderization; that great games (and gameplay) will be over shadowed by the commentary of attire and dressings.
Zero Punctuation did a recent review of Bayonetta 2, which is getting a bad rap for her attire but has some real fun game-play.
LightningEagle7
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Which is really too bad that people are so upset at the game. Its IS good. And the main character was made by a female, in order to make a strong female lead. But nope! Its sexist, and her outfits "draw the male gaze"...
Parja
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We, as a worldwide society, need to stop acknowledging these gender-baiting morons on both sides of the argument. Ignoring them is going to be the only way to stop them.
Armenius
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Since you keep bringing up Quinn, let me address that head-on. The discussion came up because of what she supposedly did, not because of what she is (a woman) or how she supposedly did it (sex).
Bottom line is the developer of a game supposedly traded favors in exchange for positive press. Which is the same thing publishers do (swag, trips) with reviewers (regardless of gender), or reviewers do for publishers in return for advertising money.
This was the basis of the whole argument when everything started:
The trading of favors between the press and the industry they cover is highly unethical and anti-consumer. I'd go so far as to call it the Marxist Media Theory in practice. Hence the fight for journalistic ethics and integrity in gaming media.
I, personally, am not saying that sexism does not exist in the video game industry. Sexism permeates throughout any industry in all of western society. Does this make the goods industry produces or the people who consume them bad? No. Is it human nature? Yes. Is it a learned behavior? Debatable. But let's not confuse sexism with misogyny.
The type of games you enjoy playing in the privacy of your own home has little in common with how you represent yourself and your colleagues in a professional environment. If he wants to wear that shirt out on the street, more power to him, but it's inappropriate for the workplace, and absolutely inappropriate when representing the scientific community to the media.
Case in point, I neither make game nor shirts, I like his shirt (made by a woman), and I like bayoneta 2 (also made by a woman).
Considering it took someone on twitter to blow it up, I am guessing that his coworkers were fine with it
Here is the quandary, if both are "ok" but should not be seen in public, is that itself is "shame banning"? That is what some the GG community fear, a defacto ban based on political correctness.
Edit: I represent myself more or less the same to my coworkers, i even recommended Bayonetta 2 to a coworker.
Would you please link to the positive press that Quinn received in exchange for sex?
MavericK
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Her "outfit" consists of her magical hair or whatever, which is frequently off her body...
Not saying I agree with all the criticism necessarily, but are you guys saying that the game wouldn't have good gameplay if she didn't get half-naked? Does it really add anything to the story or gameplay from a non-sexual perspective?
Armenius
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I note that you didn't quote the piece at the beginning of my post where I said "supposedly" numerous times. I only brought it up because you kept mentioning it, while GamerGate has moved on from it a long time ago. True or not, it doesn't matter anymore because this was just the last story of impropriety at the time since 2007 before the August 27 event that brought everything to a head. No one involved in the GamerGate movement discusses this specific incident in news or conversation anymore.
Maybe, the game's aesthetic (as opposed to game-play) does not lend to wearing a business suit. When a game has a break in the artistic aesthetic it breaks enjoyment of the game-play.
Which raises the question, what is proper attire for "females in games" i mean look at the reverse, Men are all buff he-man types (and I don't really care, just comparing)
Kalabalana
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This sounds like racism
Yes, some idiots threatened someone. Yes, you can call them terroristic threats, and by connection those who made them as terrorists. Although usually we reserve said description for groups or individuals who have followed through on threats to actual acts of violence.
That does not mean that everyone who disagrees with you on some subject or finds some movement questionable or bankrupt of common sense is a terrorist because someone else who disagreed with you made threats.
Case in point, I neither make game nor shirts, I like his shirt (made by a woman), and I like bayoneta 2 (also made by a woman).
Considering it took someone on twitter to blow it up, I am guessing that his coworkers were fine with it
Here is the quandary, if both are "ok" but should not be seen in public, is that itself is "shame banning"? That is what some the GG community fear, a defacto ban based on political correctness.
Edit: I represent myself more or less the same to my coworkers, i even recommended Bayonetta 2 to a coworker.
Because the logical outlet for an HR complaint is Twitter? I did not say that the shirt shouldn't be seen in public, only that it does not belong in a professional environment.
You might recommend Bayonetta 2 to a coworker you know well, but would you wear a Bayonetta shirt to work? Would you wear it on a day when a woman is being interviewed for a position? We all moderate our dress and behavior in the workplace based on what people might find uncomfortable, because we represent not just ourselves but also our employer.
It is?
I work in a back office maintain servers, zero customer interaction, I (we) wear Hawaiian shirts all the time, i am fond of the one i got in Vegas, with flames, dice, and cards
That was not my real point though, is the "sin" of his shirt so big of a transgression that it totally nullified his scientific accomplishment as it did?
chockomonkey
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That's THE question isn't it? But for all the complaining, I haven't heard one suggestion of how they'd rather see females dress or be represented in video games.
Stolen from another thread/poster:
There's just no winning.
I was using sarcasm to suggest that if any of his coworkers were uncomfortable with his shirt, we wouldn't know about it.
I work in a back office maintain servers, zero customer interaction, I (we) wear Hawaiian shirts all the time, i am fond of the one i got in Vegas, with flames, dice, and cards
I get it, I'm a software engineer myself. My work clothes are my everyday clothes. I'm still willing to bet that if your boss came to you and said "hey, we're bringing a customer through the server room tomorrow," you might swap the Hawaiian for a polo, or at least not wear a shirt with scantily-clad women on it.
No.
True, I get you about the attire, i tent the be the techie they clean up for the customer meetings
I was just being somewhat of a a devils advocate, I personally thing if i was going to do a TV interview out comes the Polo, but personally i like his shirt.
MavericK
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They're comparing two extremes in that picture and then you say "there's no winning". What's wrong with women dressing like a normal person? Why does it have to be half-naked or completely covered up?
That's THE question isn't it? But for all the complaining, I haven't heard one suggestion of how they'd rather see females dress or be represented in video games.
Stolen from another thread/poster:
There's just no winning.
How can you even compare western society with Shariah society? A silly cartoon is no way to have a serious discussion on how shameful it is that people make excuses for societies that treat women as property to be sold as slaves.
Forgotten in the cartoon is that the woman on the left is choosing to wear the bikini, the one on the right may not.
Or for that matter what is the proper attire for a male character; they are always showing their well oiled bodies too.
chockomonkey
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My 'no winning' comment was more about my first statement in that post:
"But for all the complaining, I haven't heard one suggestion of how they'd rather see females dress or be represented in video games."
And it doesn't have to be half-naked or completely covered up. But games, like other forms of entertainment media, are typically fiction and in these fantasy worlds, creators always go for the best of the best... whether that be a hot actress/actor in a movie, or a rendered sexy person.
That's not at all what i was trying to convey, so my apologies. I wasn't even thinking about the reasons why they cover themselves, just the satire of how they're both thinking practically the same thing.
But anyway, if it's okay that a lady chooses to dress sexy-like, why isn't it okay that a developer renders a lady sexy-like? Why the big outcry over games when all other media is just as bad?
MavericK
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No argument there. I imagine both have to do with the fact that primarily males play those types of games, so they want to imagine themselves as the buff "perfect" males and fantasize about the sexualized "perfect" females.
It's perfectly ok. I think the argument is for more variety, which is what we do have in other media. Take a look at Hollywood: plenty of movies with sexy women, but just as many with strong female characters that aren't overtly sexualized. People have a lot of choice when they want to see a movie. Achieving a similar level of diversity is an inevitable part of games maturing as an art form.
wonderfield
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Games tend to be very action-oriented, though. There are a lot of female characters in more dramatic roles who are dressed realistically and sensibly, but in action movies, women tend to wear more revealing and adventurous clothing. That games mirror that action film aesthetic for women isn't shocking to me.
And there is a lot of variety. It's obviously been a while since we've seen Alyx Vance in her jeans, t-shirt and jacket, but Lara Croft has been cleaned up a little bit in the reboot in terms of proportion and in clothing. And there's Amanda Ripley, who may as well not even have arm or leg skin. Are there really that many scantily-clad female characters around these days, actually? Because they don't really seem to be in the games I've been playing.
And there is a lot of variety. It's obviously been a while since we've seen Alyx Vance in her jeans, t-shirt and jacket, but Lara Croft has been cleaned up a little bit in the reboot in terms of proportion and in clothing. And there's Amanda Ripley, who may as well not even have arm or leg skin. Are there really that many scantily-clad female characters around these days, actually? Because they don't really seem to be in the games I've been playing.
I actually agree with you. I think women should be able to wear whatever they want, and the more skin the better as far as I'm concerned*.
I also don't think it's healthy for a group of people to tell other people what they can and cannot like or what's okay for them to put in a video game.
I think the feministas and SJWs are just trying to make everyone as miserable and hate themselves as much as they do. As far as I'm concerned, they can all go fuck themselves and jump off a cliff.
*Whales need not apply.
MavericK
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I would say in the vast majority of RPGs and MMOs there are plenty. I never did understand the level of skin showing on an "armored" female character in an RPG.
MavericK
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Statements like this are pretty much what feminists and SJWs are speaking out against in the first place...lol.
Women "wearing whatever they want" is not a male fantasy where women wear crop tops and bikinis all day, every day. Go to any average grocery store or really any public place (other than the beach or something) if you want to see women wearing "what they want".
Youn
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1. Some women want to wear no clothing to show off their "sexy" bodies. Same with some guys.
2. Most people don't want to see unhealthy looking people with skimpy/revealing clothing.
3. Trying to "fix" these simple facts is like trying to stop a waterfall with your bare-hands.
2. Most people don't want to see unhealthy looking people with skimpy/revealing clothing.
3. Trying to "fix" these simple facts is like trying to stop a waterfall with your bare-hands.
You are painting with an INCREDIBLY wide brush. Stop.
I agree, i think too many are trying making pro-GG supporters take responsibility for a few bad actors.
That is the same as making all Christians liable for the one or two nut jobs that kill abortion doctors.