Looking to upgrade from hd598 to a more immersive/exciting headphone

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tehgray

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Trying to choose between HD650's, HE400, and Philips X1. I listen to music similar to Imagine Dragons, Ed Sheeran, Lindsey Taylor, Fallout Boy, The Fray, ColdPlay, etc.

I also play ALOT of video games ranging from CSGO to skyrim to MMO's.

Looking for something that can get me headbanging but also enjoy the clarity of it the music. I would love to feel immersed in games like skyrim, and hopefully I don't need to go closed headphones just to achieve that since they tend to get really uncomfortable on the ears after awhile. I spend anywhere to 6-12 hours on the computer sometimes for various reasons, so comfort is also a big factor.

I have the HD598's and love the sound, but hate how it feels too elegant to get me headbanging to rock songs, and sounds so airy in games instead of immersive.

Budget: $400, saving money is fun though.

Source: My onboard on brand new pc. Motherboard: Gigabyte Z97 Sniper. It seems perfectly capable to me.
 
Frankly that's a pathetic source for an expensive headphone.

Buy an entry level USB DAC/Amp like the Aune T1 and choose a headphone from there.

The X2 is a better choice than the X1 and the HD600 is a better choice then the HD650

Consider the VModa Crossfade M-100 if you're looking for performance in a dynamic headphone without too much "elegance." It's not a very flat headphone but it will "spice up" the music and games you pointed at.
 
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Zangmonkey said:
Frankly that's a pathetic source for an expensive headphone.

Buy an entry level USB DAC/Amp like the Aune T1 and choose a headphone from there.

The X2 is a better choice than the X1 and the HD600 is a better choice then the HD650

Consider the VModa Crossfade M-100 if you're looking for performance in a dynamic headphone without too much "elegance." It's not a very flat headphone but it will "spice up" the music and games you pointed at.
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usb and dac will go insanely far. Aune T1 is a tube amp though, not really what I would recommend for gaming.

solid state is better for gaming and tube is better for music isn't it?
 
HD650>HD600 for anything but audio production.

HD 650's make poorly mastered recordings sound OK and decently mastered recordings sound great. Which is wonderful for 95% of the music put out today, that's not really well mastered, but not exactly what you want if you're trying to produce a track yourself.

The HD 650's will give you a lot more bottom end than the HD 598's and just sound richer for lack of a better word. When properly amp'd.

HD 650>>HE 400's. I've got a pair of HE 400's I never listen to that can testify to this. They're not bad, just not comfortable, heavy, and a little more high-strung than the HD 650's.

I haven't owned a pair of the X1's. I would like to though, heard good things (ofc I heard good things about the HE-400's too and that turned out to be a waste of money).

I would start watching for a HD 650 black friday deal.
 
Kueller said:
HD650>HD600 for anything but audio production.
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Inner Fidelity suggested that the 600 is a better sounding headphone than the 650 if you're interested in more than just the response curve.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/very-important-sennheiser-hd-580-hd-600-and-hd-650

Phlorge said:
usb and dac will go insanely far. Aune T1 is a tube amp though, not really what I would recommend for gaming.

solid state is better for gaming and tube is better for music isn't it?
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A tube can sound very neutral or very specific depending on how you roll. A solid state unit will be fine, too. I think an entry tube is more "fun."
 
Kueller said:
HD 650>>HE 400's. I've got a pair of HE 400's I never listen to that can testify to this. They're not bad, just not comfortable, heavy, and a little more high-strung than the HD 650's.
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Same here. HE400 are really uncomfortable.

HD800>HD650>HD598

Get the best you can afford.
 
Panmaster said:
Same here. HE400 are really uncomfortable.

HD800>HD650>HD598

Get the best you can afford.
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The HD800's are absolutely not for "rocking out"

Even if they were in OP's budget he probably wouldn't want them for the uses he suggested.
 
Zangmonkey said:
Frankly that's a pathetic source for an expensive headphone.

Buy an entry level USB DAC/Amp like the Aune T1 and choose a headphone from there.

The X2 is a better choice than the X1 and the HD600 is a better choice then the HD650

Consider the VModa Crossfade M-100 if you're looking for performance in a dynamic headphone without too much "elegance." It's not a very flat headphone but it will "spice up" the music and games you pointed at.
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Entry level at $170? No thank you. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I was actually suggested to buy http://www.amazon.com/Syba-Stereo-Headphone-Amplifier-SD-DAC63057/dp/B009WN7QT4


And it seems general consensus is HD650. So is this combo what I am looking for?

And when do black Friday headphone deals typically start? Seems in the past its a pretty sweet deal..
 
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tehgray said:
Would it really make a difference vs the $40 alternative?
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When it comes down to it you need to know if you have enough power to properly drive either low sensitivity headphones (like the HiFiMan's) or the high impedance (Sennheiser HD600 & HD650). That Syba DAC/amp doesn't even publish it's output spec where the Monoprice amp does and the Monoprice one has enough power for most headphones. It's potentially the difference between being disappointed and being satisfied. Personally I won't even consider a headphone amp that doesn't publish it's power specs (which is most of them). The Schiit Magni/Modi combo or the Monoprice Headphone DAC/amp (which is almost like a Magni/Modi combined) can power almost all headphones but the most demanding low sensitivity ones (not counting the electrostat cans).

How to determine power requirements for headphones:
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/09/more-power.html
 
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tehgray said:
Entry level at $170? No thank you. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I was actually suggested to buy http://www.amazon.com/Syba-Stereo-Headphone-Amplifier-SD-DAC63057/dp/B009WN7QT4


And it seems general consensus is HD650. So is this combo what I am looking for?

And when do black Friday headphone deals typically start? Seems in the past its a pretty sweet deal..
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You're considering a $400+ headphone plugged into the lowest quality source.

Cheaper headphones, better source... if your budget is capped.

It would be stupid for you to buy the HD650 and plug it into your onboard or unamplified source. The mono price unit linked is also a good entry unit.
 
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Of all of those headphones you listed, you would NEED an amp for the Sennheiser HD 650 and the Hifiman 400s unless you were only hoping to get about 50% of their performance. The Philips headphones would be the exception to that running quite well from your motherboard because of their efficiency, although you would still benefit from a good DAC. I would highly recommend trying to set aside $60-100 for an amp/DAC combo like the SMSL SD-793.

There seems to be a little disagreement over the Sennheiser HD650's and HD600's, if you were wondering about that, it is my understanding that neither is 'better' than the other even though one has the higher numbering scheme. They both are different headphones that offer a different sound. It is up to you to read a little more on their sound signature, but the HD650s would be more 'fun' while the HD600s are more for analytic listening.

My vote is for the Philips X1 or possibly the X2, they are both extremely well made headphones that offer a lot and can be plugged into many sources with relative ease (not needing additional amplification). They should easily fulfill your comfort expectations and give you a big, but also fun sound. Use the rest of your remaining budget for a nice DAC to pair with it. Even with a great set of headphones I noticed a difference moving up from onboard audio to a dac/amp both in terms of sound quality, but especially separation and positioning that's excellent for gaming.
 
tehgray said:
Entry level at $170? No thank you. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I was actually suggested to buy http://www.amazon.com/Syba-Stereo-Headphone-Amplifier-SD-DAC63057/dp/B009WN7QT4


And it seems general consensus is HD650. So is this combo what I am looking for?

And when do black Friday headphone deals typically start? Seems in the past its a pretty sweet deal..
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Unless you are looking to upgrade your amp in the near future, get the X1s. With 30 ohm impedance, they may sound quite decent from your onboard sound.

A USB powered headphone amp, will not provide enough power for either the Senns or the Hifimans. You would not even come close to their full potential.

Edit: Need to retract my statement. Something like the Soundblaster X-Fi HD USB can drive high impedance cans quite well
 
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tehgray said:
Would it really make a difference vs the $40 alternative?
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Yes.
The Monoprice 11567 unit is a combination DAC+Amp, with the same Texas Instruments decoding and amp chips found in setups costing 2x (bare minimum) and up to 5x as much. Similar setups are usually broken into separate $100+ DAC and Amp units. That $170 unit recommended above really was a bargain entry level suggestion until monoprice released their unit.

That extra $40 is absolutely worth it if you're getting the HD 650's! I've tried other, more expensive setups (including the vaunted Objective2). I sold them and kept the MP 11567 because it performed just as well and I essentially made over $100 back when I sold my old separate units. The MP 11567 also draws it's power from the wall rather than over USB.
 
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grausch said:
Unless you are looking to upgrade your amp in the near future, get the X1s. With 30 ohm impedance, they may sound quite decent from your onboard sound.

A USB powered headphone amp, will not provide enough power for either the Senns or the Hifimans. You would not even come close to their full potential.

Edit: Need to retract my statement. Something like the Soundblaster X-Fi HD USB can drive high impedance cans quite well
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a soundblaster x-fi might power them okay but in my experience a stand alone amp will bring the sound quality up quite a bit. but I went from only a soundblaster z to a magni
 
I used my HD650 with Asus Essence STX and they rock. Play alot of games and listen tu a fair amount of music. Sound quality is superb, amazing. It really lets the audio in games shine, love the sound of sniper in BF4, so sharp and clear.

The Soundblaster ZXR should be amazing too
 
Phlorge said:
a soundblaster x-fi might power them okay but in my experience a stand alone amp will bring the sound quality up quite a bit. but I went from only a soundblaster z to a magni
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It's not so much about being able to drive a specific set of headphones, but the cleaner electrical platform afforded by a dedicated audio device. A wall-powered DAC/Amp is just easier to power cleanly than a sound card drawing from the same multi-rail power supply supporting a CPU + GPU with widely variable power demands.
 
How about some DT990's?

They are fun, have a huge sound stage. Coming from Senn's the Beyer's might be a little overwhelming as there sound signature is almost polar opposite.
 
Kueller said:
It's not so much about being able to drive a specific set of headphones, but the cleaner electrical platform afforded by a dedicated audio device. A wall-powered DAC/Amp is just easier to power cleanly than a sound card drawing from the same multi-rail power supply supporting a CPU + GPU with widely variable power demands.
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yeah thats why I meantioned sound quality. thats exactly what I was saying just didn't articulate that well.

Standalone amp > sound card
 
Kueller said:
It's not so much about being able to drive a specific set of headphones, but the cleaner electrical platform afforded by a dedicated audio device. A wall-powered DAC/Amp is just easier to power cleanly than a sound card drawing from the same multi-rail power supply supporting a CPU + GPU with widely variable power demands.
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Amplifiers just provide power. Electrical noise from highend PSU's is negligible and inaudible even from integrated audio chipsets.
Background noise, headphones / speakers and hearing are the limiting factors.
 
Panmaster said:
Amplifiers just provide power. Electrical noise from highend PSU's is negligible and inaudible even from integrated audio chipsets.
Background noise, headphones / speakers and hearing are the limiting factors.
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Life would be so much easier if you were right. I can plug my headphones into my onboard headphone port (Z87X-UD4H, ALC898 codec, "600 ohm capable headphone amp" according to manual), and turn the sound all the way down, then fire up a game, and listen to the interference from the GPU, reminiscent of coil whine, only my GPU doesn't suffer from audible coil whine.
 
Kueller said:
Life would be so much easier if you were right. I can plug my headphones into my onboard headphone port (Z87X-UD4H, ALC898 codec, "600 ohm capable headphone amp" according to manual), and turn the sound all the way down, then fire up a game, and listen to the interference from the GPU, reminiscent of coil whine, only my GPU doesn't suffer from audible coil whine.
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Don't put everyone in your basket. Mine is silent.
 
tehgray said:
Don't put everyone in your basket. Mine is silent.
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Pretty sure he wasn't the one throwing everyone into a basket. ;)

My last motherboard had noise on the analog outs to my headphone amp (no external DAC). The Logitech PC speakers I had at that time didn't pick up the noise or weren't revealing enough to let it through. My current motherboard does with my headphone amp and JBL LSR305's on the analog out. The previous Altec Lansing PC speakers didn't pick up the noise just like the Logitech speakers. You just never know. I'm not big on crazy expensive DACs but I do like external ones for PC use just to eliminate the possibility of noise induced by the PC itself.
 
Senns are hardly considered exciting headphones (not bashing--I love the HD-650s). I think a pair of a low impedance pair of Beyers would suit you better while possibly not requiring a dedicated amp. I would definitely recommend an external DAC with any of the headphones discussed in this thread though.

Just for the record, my setup is a gamma1/2 DAC => PPAv2 (OPA627+OPA637) => HD-650. I also own a pairs of HD-595 and HD-280 Pro headphones.
 
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I am always excited at the prospect of listening to my HD650's
 
nocooler said:
How about some DT990's?

They are fun, have a huge sound stage. Coming from Senn's the Beyer's might be a little overwhelming as there sound signature is almost polar opposite.
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This suggestion is actually the one I've seen that makes the most sense to me based on what the OP is asking for.

I have HD600's, HE-400's, and DT-990's. They're all different in their own way. Of the group, based on what the OP said, I'd probably lean toward the 990's.
 
What does the 990 have that im looking for that the hd650 doesnt?

And what 990 version are we talking about?
 
Why are people spending $400 on headphones instead of a good set of speakers? Serious question. Is it just not wanting to disturb others in the same room?
 
Because a $400 pair of headphones sounds better than speakers in that price range?
 
Jumpem said:
Why are people spending $400 on headphones instead of a good set of speakers? Serious question. Is it just not wanting to disturb others in the same room?
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A lot of people live in the city. Rocking out at 2am with good speakers doesn't go over well with the neighbors.
 
Jumpem said:
Why are people spending $400 on headphones instead of a good set of speakers? Serious question. Is it just not wanting to disturb others in the same room?
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Ambient noise levels are a bigger concern, many rooms have poor acoustics, some people have neighbors, etc etc.
 
tehgray said:
What does the 990 have that im looking for that the hd650 doesnt?

And what 990 version are we talking about?
Click to expand...

Well, to quote you:

tehgray said:
I have the HD598's and love the sound, but hate how it feels too elegant to get me headbanging to rock songs, and sounds so airy in games instead of immersive.
Click to expand...

The 650's are going to sound just as "elegant" as the 598's. They're perhaps the most laid back smooth sounding headphone I have ever heard. There will be more detail, yes, and some more bass even too, but they still aren't going to solve the issues you mentioned with your 598's.

The 990's have a pretty good sound stage which is solid for gaming and have some of the "smile curve" to them on the frequency response side, meaning an emphasis placed on bass and treble with some recession in the midrange frequencies.

They'd be pretty terrible for mixing work as they're anything but neutral or flat, but for gaming and music and movies they tend to be a lot of fun to listen with.

As far as which model, I'm not sure it matters too much. If you're going to pick up one of the decent amps mentioned in the thread, I'd say the 250 ohm professional model is the sweet spot. Don't fall for the "Premium" models. They sound just like the professional models but cost significantly more for very little reason. The only differences as far as I know are cosmetic.
 
Does anyone have recommendations for over the ear headphones similar to the HD280? I like the large over the ear style that fits all the way around my ear.

I think I want to stick with closed headphones as I usually only wear them when I am working at home and want to be isolated from all of the other family noise going on. :) I also usually listen at relatively low volumes. High volume and bass tends to give me headaches.

Budget is probably $200.
 
tehgray said:
Anyone have any thoughts on the Fidelio X1? (Possibly the X2 that just came out)
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I'll let you know later this week how I feel about them. Head fi raves about them though, especially at their current price point
 
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