Heads up on Paypal Policy update effective Nov. 18th 2014

Or, perhaps, the reverse -- eBay wants to see Paypal "fail" so they can either have it die or pull it back in.

/tinfoilhat

Regardless, should be interesting to watch what happens...
 
180 days..

EThgYxM.jpg
 
PayPal and eBay split (this is what I've read) because PayPal wants to pursue being a full-on payments platform more aggressively. Apple had approached PayPal about a partnership for Apple Pay, but the eBay CEO forced them not to agree to one, the PayPal representatives were literally thrown out of Apple HQ, and now the companies have split so that PayPal can try to be another "real life" payments platform, just like Apple Pay, Square, etc. Now this is just what I've read on various blogs, so if anyone else knows this is inaccurate, don't blame me.

I imagine management changes were made at PayPal to move them in this direction, but their policies have been terrible toward sellers for years now. Twice they screwed me for $300 (once on an iPod Touch I sent to Italy, another on a phone I sold where the guy received it, I had proof of the delivery, PayPal refused to accept it and did a chargeback on me because this guy scammed me).

Once I found Dwolla I told PayPal to kiss my ass for good, and now that Amazon Payments and Google Wallet are just as convenient, they will never get any of my business ever again outside of when I'm FORCED to use PayPal (which is only on eBay).
 
Once I found Dwolla I told PayPal to kiss my ass for good
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Never use Dwolla to pay for items from private sellers unless you can afford to throw that money in the trash. I used Dwolla to send over $1000 to an individual for a lot of Intel CPUs, thinking that the Dwolla dispute process would protect me like PayPal. Turns out their dispute process by "Community Managers' is a complete scam. If you have transferred the money already, there is literally no way they can get it back unless the seller agrees to voluntarily refund you. In other words, you are screwed.

Now I recognize it was partially my fault because I bought from a seller with no Heatware or reputation, but still, I will never use Dwolla to pay for goods again.
 
There are plenty of alternatives to PayPal. Most direct payments put the risk on the buyer, because once the money is out of your hands, you're kind of screwed. Money Orders, Square Payments, Bitcoin, Paypal gift, Amazon Payments, Google Wallet, Dwolla, etc.

A company really needs to come around and make a forum trading payment, where the seller puts the terms, photos, and serial numbers in the sale and the buyer agrees to the price and terms. If the items aren't as described, there can be a dispute and there would be a rating system / arbitration to handle it. I think heatware + payment kind of handles that, but something better defined.

Edit
PayPal was always an issue for the seller, too. Disputes can be made with the credit card or through PayPal and scammers could fairly easily get your stuff and run.
 
I usually wait a few days for credit funds to transfer into my account if the buyer paid via credit. That way PP doesn't automatically deduct funds from my PP account if they file a chargeback potentially screwing me over.
 
Meleniumshane90 said:
A company really needs to come around and make a forum trading payment, where the seller puts the terms, photos, and serial numbers in the sale and the buyer agrees to the price and terms. If the items aren't as described, there can be a dispute and there would be a rating system / arbitration to handle it. I think heatware + payment kind of handles that, but something better defined.
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Hmm, you're defining eBay, or Amazon Marketplace...
 
theGryphon said:
Meleniumshane90 said:
A company really needs to come around and make a forum trading payment, where the seller puts the terms, photos, and serial numbers in the sale and the buyer agrees to the price and terms. If the items aren't as described, there can be a dispute and there would be a rating system / arbitration to handle it. I think heatware + payment kind of handles that, but something better defined.
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Hmm, you're defining eBay, or Amazon Marketplace...
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Glyde and Swappa would be better examples of sites that are handle transactions well. eBay has a pretty straight forward policy of siding with the buyer over the seller. Amazon isn't particularly relevant, since most people go on there to buy new items from bigger sellers. What I'm referring to is a company that will handle forum transactions well.

You can already use Heatware to form a trade agreement, but no payment can be made between parties through it. If they were to partner up with a payment service and put in a terms of service, that could be a potential alternative.
 
Matthew Kane said:
I usually wait a few days for credit funds to transfer into my account if the buyer paid via credit. That way PP doesn't automatically deduct funds from my PP account if they file a chargeback potentially screwing me over.
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A credit hit is just as bad dude.
 
So I can just keep upgrading my video cards every 6 months... this is a horrible idea Paypal. Think about it, you buy a gtx 980 card, 5 months later the TI version cones out, no problem I'll send this card back and get my money backed and get a new card, rinse, lather, repeat.
 
Money orders are a lot better than Paypal actually. Well, unless you're on Craigslist, but last time I checked, [H]ard|Forum was most certainly not CL. Thankfully.

Yes they are comparatively slow to arrive. Yes you have to actually get your ass out of your chair and into the local (or not-so-local, your call) Post Office to get money from them. But if someone tries to screw you over (whichever side of the transaction you're on, I believe) and USPS finds out about it... they call in The Feds, from what I understand. It's at least fraud if not mail fraud... either way you just got the US gov't to come after you with one hell of a rake ;)

For the record, IIRC there is a process to get a refund, if you get the MO and then back out. I don't know more than that, as I haven't needed to look into it yet.
 
starhawk said:
Money orders are a lot better than Paypal actually.
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if I dont trust someone enough to send them a PayPal payment, then I dont trust them enough to send them money in any way shape or form.

money order fraud is huge and you have zero chance of getting your money back

People have been talking shit about PayPal for years now, but Its still the most used payment service for a reason...I can pay with PayPal in about 4 clicks and 12 seconds....cant do that with a money order.

and if you think the government is going to help you get back $500.00 that someone stole from you, well, you must have a different government than me.....
 
My information on those comes mostly from Gillbot. I believe he knows what he's talking about.

I honestly have not had much personal experience with money orders; as you point out, paypal is more convenient.
 
Crosshairs said:
if I dont trust someone enough to send them a PayPal payment, then I dont trust them enough to send them money in any way shape or form.

money order fraud is huge and you have zero chance of getting your money back

People have been talking shit about PayPal for years now, but Its still the most used payment service for a reason...I can pay with PayPal in about 4 clicks and 12 seconds....cant do that with a money order.

and if you think the government is going to help you get back $500.00 that someone stole from you, well, you must have a different government than me.....
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Totally agreed with everything you said.
 
Well that's a really long time, it's ridiculous. PayPal wasn't perfect before (and that's an understatement), but now? Oh well.
 
So one place where this might be good, since this does effectively kill person-to-person transactions for me, and I feel the need to find something positive, is the fact that many major retailers accept PayPal. If I understand this correctly, I can now dispute with Home Depot for the leaf blower I bought last spring and didn't get to test for 4 months because of a nutso school schedule, which is cool.

But I'll agree with the overwhelming sentiment...wtf?
 
Marcdaddy said:
So I can just keep upgrading my video cards every 6 months... this is a horrible idea Paypal. Think about it, you buy a gtx 980 card, 5 months later the TI version cones out, no problem I'll send this card back and get my money backed and get a new card, rinse, lather, repeat.
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Yeah they'd be able to do that once but then the negative Heat they'd get for it would prevent diligent traders from dealing with them again.

I just set up Google Wallet for those who won't trust me enough for PayPal even though I have 15 years of trading with no negative Heat.
 
Crosshairs said:
if I dont trust someone enough to send them a PayPal payment, then I dont trust them enough to send them money in any way shape or form.

money order fraud is huge and you have zero chance of getting your money back

People have been talking shit about PayPal for years now, but Its still the most used payment service for a reason...I can pay with PayPal in about 4 clicks and 12 seconds....cant do that with a money order.

and if you think the government is going to help you get back $500.00 that someone stole from you, well, you must have a different government than me.....
Click to expand...
Then I must have a different government. I've gotten refunds on scammers over $60 let alone $500. Has PayPal ever stood up for a seller in those cases? Not me at least. I've had better luck with refunds on a money order as opposed to PayPal. I'll just agree to disagree on the fact that there is a zero chance on getting your money back because that's not been the case when I needed it.
starhawk said:
My information on those comes mostly from Gillbot. I believe he knows what he's talking about.

I honestly have not had much personal experience with money orders; as you point out, paypal is more convenient.
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I've said it before, and I'm tired of repeating it. It takes A LOT OF FUCKING LEGWORK AND TIME to go through the process with the federal fraud department. That's the fundamental problem with people. They are too god dam lazy and want PayPal to do everything for them. I've had no problems busting scammers on a $60 money order yet have been screwed over by PayPal regardless of the evidence provided. I'm not a total PayPal basher, I still use it but I'm very picky with it. Just as you should be with ANY form of payment. People just want to be able to fire off a fast payment for a great deal without thinking about the fact that if the deal is too good to be true........
Red Dawn said:
Yeah they'd be able to do that once but then the negative Heat they'd get for it would prevent diligent traders from dealing with them again.

I just set up Google Wallet for those who won't trust me enough for PayPal even though I have 15 years of trading with no negative Heat.
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Sadly red, heat doesn't mean squat anymore. Some of the requests and demands I get even after showing my refs make me laugh. Typically I just tell them never mind and walk away from the deal.
 
Gillbot said:
Sadly red, heat doesn't mean squat anymore. Some of the requests and demands I get even after showing my refs make me laugh. Typically I just tell them never mind and walk away from the deal.
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Such as? I've found that since I've been trading here and at Ars exclusively the traders have been easy to deal with and very accommodating once we come to a meeting of the minds and even if we don't they are usually very polite. Yeah there are a couple that have onerous rules about what they'll accept as far as payment or shipping but that's their prerogative.

What I'm hoping is with these new rules for PayPal more traders don't become like that, it'll just ruin the experience
 
Most scoff at heatware, refer me to eBay to prove they are "good" then demand I ship first or allow them to "try things out" before payment. I've basically abandoned selling anymore unless I've dealt with the person previously. I still buy but I'm extremely picky with who I buy from. With fs/ft prices as obscenely high as they are, I'll pay the extra few bucks and wait for a retail sale.
 
Gillbot said:
Most scoff at heatware, refer me to eBay to prove they are "good" then demand I ship first or allow them to "try things out" before payment. I've basically abandoned selling anymore unless I've dealt with the person previously. I still buy but I'm extremely picky with who I buy from. With fs/ft prices as obscenely high as they are, I'll pay the extra few bucks and wait for a retail sale.
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Where's this at? I've never had that happen here.
 
All over honestly but here and a few other places. I don't post much any more for that reason.
 
init6 said:
PayPal and eBay split (this is what I've read) because PayPal wants to pursue being a full-on payments platform more aggressively. Apple had approached PayPal about a partnership for Apple Pay, but the eBay CEO forced them not to agree to one, the PayPal representatives were literally thrown out of Apple HQ, and now the companies have split so that PayPal can try to be another "real life" payments platform, just like Apple Pay, Square, etc. Now this is just what I've read on various blogs, so if anyone else knows this is inaccurate, don't blame me.

I imagine management changes were made at PayPal to move them in this direction, but their policies have been terrible toward sellers for years now. Twice they screwed me for $300 (once on an iPod Touch I sent to Italy, another on a phone I sold where the guy received it, I had proof of the delivery, PayPal refused to accept it and did a chargeback on me because this guy scammed me).

Once I found Dwolla I told PayPal to kiss my ass for good, and now that Amazon Payments and Google Wallet are just as convenient, they will never get any of my business ever again outside of when I'm FORCED to use PayPal (which is only on eBay).
Click to expand...

You are talking about PayPal lie it's a separate company and its not. They are planning to split so that they will be but until then it's one company.
 
Gillbot said:
Most scoff at heatware, refer me to eBay to prove they are "good" then demand I ship first or allow them to "try things out" before payment. I've basically abandoned selling anymore unless I've dealt with the person previously. I still buy but I'm extremely picky with who I buy from. With fs/ft prices as obscenely high as they are, I'll pay the extra few bucks and wait for a retail sale.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, I haven't had anyone try that crap on me.
 
Crosshairs said:
if someone I am dealing with "scoffs" at heatware, the deal is over that very moment.....
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Pretty much the same here. If they can't accept that I've been here for this long and haven't ripped anyone off, I tell them good luck and move on.
 
I usually find that a good old fashioned phone call can tell you a lot.

Just bought an NCASE M1 off of craigslist and the guy was not too hot on shipping and using Paypal. After about a 20 minute phone convo it was clear we were both upstanding folks (drop a couple y'alls with a Texas twang and gosh darn it, you're good). Just got my tracking number. :D

Also, people often don't leave feedback on heatware, which is why I don't use it so much anymore. I'd say maybe 33% leave feedback on heat despite the PM on here being "omg such an easy transaction." Huge thanks to the people who do.

As mentioned earlier ... I wouldn't even consider doing a money order unless is was a discounted item from a staple of the [H] community. I suppose if it was a hard to find item from a trustworthy seller that would be fine as well. The guys with SSDs for sale and MO only ... eh, too many other options. 3-4 days for them to get MO to them ... 3-4 days to get the item. Yes, I'm lazy. And I just ate 2 corndogs at the state fair. 'Murica. :cool:

I used to complain about post count requirements, but between that and checking people's history, I have had nothing but positive experiences here.
 
Ebay sales are going to drop like hell , no one will be selling stuff .
Today I got the message from paypal lol ..
Also they say"if the item is replica/copy you dont have to send back the item to get the refund"
Thats sounds little good but if the buyer scams out as the item he got was replica the seller is done ,lol.
 
Do you guys in the states have interac e-transfer? Sending money with that is really easy and quick. I don't know what the buyers recourse would be in a dispute though.
 
Bootleg Usher said:
Do you guys in the states have interac e-transfer? Sending money with that is really easy and quick. I don't know what the buyers recourse would be in a dispute though.
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What is interact? If one has the same bank you can transfer with one click. There are so many ways to sell money that it really does not matter to me. I've never had an issue with PayPal but once recently, had to write a ripoff report because the guy wouldn't give me money back for his software...

it can be quite a nightmare. Definitely careful, but I don't use paypal for business transactions, but if I do, I'm VERY careful about who I'm doing business with.
 
DJ Big T said:
What is interact? If one has the same bank you can transfer with one click. There are so many ways to sell money that it really does not matter to me. I've never had an issue with PayPal but once recently, had to write a ripoff report because the guy wouldn't give me money back for his software...

it can be quite a nightmare. Definitely careful, but I don't use paypal for business transactions, but if I do, I'm VERY careful about who I'm doing business with.
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Okay that answers my question. Interac is a company that facilitates bank card (or "debit card") point of sale transactions. Instead of using a credit card to buy something at a store you can use a bank card and the money comes right out of your chequing account. An interac e-transfer allows you to send money to another persons bank account, even if they don't have the same bank. It is really handy, but I guess it is just in Canada.
 
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