Six Months With a Steam Machine

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After spending six months as one of the initial 300 Steam Machine beta testers, this guy made a video summing up his experience. It's kind of an apology to Valve as well.
 
I think his insights are interesting and actually something easily or even VERY easily resolved by Steam. if they open up the box to do the things that the PS4 can do but with any video hosting or streaming sight. Add in some editing ability app that will run on the box and add a camera that people can use to record their videos and send them to the Philly Defranco's and nikki pixel's of the world. (Ok Nikki would just hack it but still)

This machine could really take off as long as they allow it to really be a platform for Linux and what it can do and not just a platform to play games on.
 
I think this video shows the main problem with Steam machines, if you want a computer that works like a console, just get/make a mITX computer and plug in an Xbox controller.
 
Grimlaking said:
I think his insights are interesting and actually something easily or even VERY easily resolved by Steam. if they open up the box to do the things that the PS4 can do but with any video hosting or streaming sight. Add in some editing ability app that will run on the box and add a camera that people can use to record their videos and send them to the Philly Defranco's and nikki pixel's of the world. (Ok Nikki would just hack it but still)

This machine could really take off as long as they allow it to really be a platform for Linux and what it can do and not just a platform to play games on.
Click to expand...

I think bigger picture, they want this to be to the PC games... what the console delivers... so I think the guy making it is right, it's like Dota... but without all the extra stuff he gets to do because it's not in windows.

I don't think there's anything wrong with providing the end user the customizable option of what this guy did to it. Sure the original controller sucked, but they knew that pretty quick and rectified it (slightly?)

My 2 cents... great vid though.
 
What he's saying is exactly what I was saying when these things were announced: Who exactly is the target consumer for these?
 
I thought this was going to be lame but the guy has a great sense of humor.

Screenshot%20%2817%29%203.png

From the video

His only specific complaints were about the controller but the overall point he was asking is what is the point of a SteamOS machine when it's trying to be a gaming PC but lacks a great deal of the software support of Windows. Furthermore, if you think Windows 8 is hard to use, what about Linux when it comes time to do something like video capture or any number of things Windows PC users do routinely but have no idea how to do it on Linux. One of the few bright spots for Microsoft about Windows 8 is that overcoming familiarity is a tough thing to do. While Windows 8 had that problem, other desktop OSes at some level are going to have the same issues, perhaps even worse because of Windows' vastly superior app support.

I think the SteamBox is a nice little idea but the window of opportunity (no pun intended) is about to close. Windows 9 is on its way, it's hard for many to move to a new desktop platform and at this point it's hard to see why many developers would spend a lot of time supporting Linux which hasn't gained much momentum in spite of the Windows 8 catastrophe.
 
lol that he installed Windows on it. Is the appeal of 100x more games REALLY worth it? :p
 
MavericK96 said:
What he's saying is exactly what I was saying when these things were announced: Who exactly is the target consumer for these?
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Do you ever ask this question of Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo? And Valve has a hell of a lot better gaming platform than those guys have. (IMHO)
 
jwcalla said:
Do you ever ask this question of Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo? And Valve has a hell of a lot better gaming platform than those guys have. (IMHO)
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But in the case of traditional consoles which have been on the market forever we already know who buys those. And many of those games don't run on Windows. In the case of a SteamOS device, we have a Linux PC that's in the form factor of a console that runs even fewer of these cross platform titles than Windows and has no notable exclusives. And when being used as a PC it also lacks much of the familiarity and support that Windows users enjoy.

It's kind of difficult to make the argument that this is a better gaming platform except that it doesn't run nearly as many games or software in general as Windows and has no console exclusives like other consoles.
 
jwcalla said:
Do you ever ask this question of Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo?
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No need to. Sony, MS and Nintendo's target audience is men, women, young adults, children, the middle class, college students, bachelors, families..well you get the idea. Their target audience is those 10's of millions of people who play vidya games.

Steam Machine's target audience seems to be those who have a ideological ax to grind against the evil and corrupt Mdollarsign, plus those who blindly worship anything that has a Valve logo attached to it. Basically, Valve's target audience is Valve employees and NeoGaf posters.

On a side note, the whole infatuation with SteamOS/Machine has run it's course. The "Official SteamOS Thread" here on [H] hasn't seen a post in 8 months and Valve's own SteamOS forum is filled with advertising, referral links and Russian trade and phishing spam.

Suffice to say, 2014 has not turned out to be the Year of the Linux Console. Nor will 2015. Or any year. Ever.
 
What? The controller isn't the amazing thing that replaces Dpads and thumbsticks like everyone was proclaiming so long ago? Say it Isn't So! :rolleyes:
 
Dekoth-E- said:
What? The controller isn't the amazing thing that replaces Dpads and thumbsticks like everyone was proclaiming so long ago? Say it Isn't So! :rolleyes:
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Yeah. That was the strangest thing about the SteamOS/Machine/Controller hype. People who boisterously advocate the superiority of mouse+KB over all other input methods suddenly became rabid lobbyists of...touchpads.

Something tells me that if it was created by EA and called the Origin Controller, the Internets wouldn't have had such a positive reaction. There's something about Valve that makes nerds suspend all logic and reason and proceed to fawn ravenously.

Valve disciples are kinda like Apple enthusiasts in that regard. No offense to either group intended.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Suffice to say, 2014 has not turned out to be the Year of the Linux Console.
Click to expand...

In all fairness, the SteamBox won't even launch in 2014. With Steam having been on Linux for going on two years now, I wonder what the hold up was. There was an opportunity to make maximum capital of Windows 8's failure and that was missed.
 
I've been really enjoying Steam Big Picture on Windows. I didn't realize how integrated it was automatically if you have a 360 controller. There's even a filter for controller supported games available on Steam. I haven't used my htpc in a few days, I have my desktop hooked up to my living room tv with 5.1, the controller works flawless through walls. The big picture overlay works nice on non steam games as well, I'm pretty impressed. I pair the controller with a Logitech k400 kb/trackpad, makes a nice couch combo. I think this is the biggest thing against using a pure steambox for me, but I'm probably not the target demographic.
 
Although I play on steam often, I had actually forgotten all about this. I have to wonder how many others have? If they started selling steam boxes in stores, I probably would have reacted like "Wow, they actually released it" and moved on.

I like Valve, I like Steam, but this *thing* doesn't appear to be gaining traction.
 
I think its safe to say if you want a PC that just works you get windows, it works well and runs just about everything and is very easy to use. They should just stick with the Steam client running on windows.

If you want a console you get Xbox or Playstation.

How much will a steamPC be anyway. My guess it will be almost double if not more then the Xbox or Playstation.
 
Freebo said:
How much will a steamPC be anyway. My guess it will be almost double if not more then the Xbox or Playstation.
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http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/06/alienware-steam-machine-now-a-windows-pc-for-the-living-room/

This starts at $549 with an i3 and some kind of custom Maxell part, which should provide it a gaming experience overall superior to next gen consoles. Not bad for what it is, even has Windows 8.1 but still over a 1/3 more than a baseline Xbox One or PS4. Don't know how much Windows adds to the cost but probably not a lot for an OEM like Dell. And whatever cost reduction SteamOS would provide would at least be offset by the smaller game library.
 
A Steambox is like the google stewarted android phones, like a nexus or a moto.

The real question is what is the point of SteamOS. Can I run it in a Virtual Machine and sever my dependance on Microsoft or whoever?
 
Shmee said:
I think this video shows the main problem with Steam machines, if you want a computer that works like a console, just get/make a mITX computer and plug in an Xbox controller.
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That's exactly what I did with my Cooler Master 120. Still not quite as portable as a console, but much easier to lug around than an mATX and above.
 
jpm100 said:
The real question is what is the point of SteamOS. Can I run it in a Virtual Machine and sever my dependance on Microsoft or whoever?
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Not exactly sure why one would run an OS for gaming in a virtual machine.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not exactly sure why one would run an OS for gaming in a virtual machine.
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I can run the VM on Linux or Windows and possibly Mac and don't need to rely on the kindness of Microsoft to produce a gaming API that you can use.
 
Closed, specialized consoles like PS, Xbox, etc. are anachronisms of the 80s and not the future of gaming and entertainment in the living room. I actually think this is all kind of basic stuff.

Do people really expect there's just going to be a PS5 then a PS6 then a PS7 after we've all already admitted that these are just regular PCs that are made to not be upgradeable and with highly limited platform lock-in?
 
jwcalla said:
Closed, specialized consoles like PS, Xbox, etc. are anachronisms of the 80s and not the future of gaming and entertainment in the living room. I actually think this is all kind of basic stuff.

Do people really expect there's just going to be a PS5 then a PS6 then a PS7 after we've all already admitted that these are just regular PCs that are made to not be upgradeable and with highly limited platform lock-in?
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PCs are thought of by many as anachronisms of the 70s with too much complexity exposed to the end user. If we look at mobile, the trend there is certainly Galaxy S6,S7, S8 iPhone 7,8,9 and so on. And these devices aren't anymore upgradable than a console.
 
heatlesssun said:
PCs are thought of by many as anachronisms of the 70s with too much complexity exposed to the end user. If we look at mobile, the trend there is certainly Galaxy S6,S7, S8 iPhone 7,8,9 and so on. And these devices aren't anymore upgradable than a console.
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Yeah and when you get a new phone you don't have to go out and buy new apps all over again.

I get a kick out of the double-speak. "(1) Well Steam BPM is garbage because it's too crippled. I want to install Windows so I can alt-tab and chat on IM and do video editing. (2) PCs are too complicated. We need a dumbed-down ChromeOS-style interface that just does one thing well."

There are some legitimate criticisms of Valve's efforts here but nobody in this thread has hit them yet. All we've had are the people who love to hate Valve because they have a good reputation in the industry (something relatively rare), and then those who feel sour because SteamOS isn't Windows-based (not Valve's fault; it's not like MS would ever license it under the circumstances). It's sort of ironic that people think Linux is not good enough for a Steam Machine, but magically FreeBSD is perfectly fine for PS4.
 
jwcalla said:
I get a kick out of the double-speak. "(1) Well Steam BPM is garbage because it's too crippled. I want to install Windows so I can alt-tab and chat on IM and do video editing. (2) PCs are too complicated. We need a dumbed-down ChromeOS-style interface that just does one thing well."
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There's a difference between double-speak and different points of view. The SteamBox looks to me as a hybrid console/PC, that seems to be the way it's viewed overall. Hybrid products get it from both sides, sometimes even from the same person. I've lost count of how many time the same person has criticized Windows 8 for being "dumbed down" and many times simultaneously say how confusing the UI is to long time Windows users. And in all fairness both criticisms have merit. For many consolers, they're not going to want to deal with a desktop OS. For a Windows PC gamer, they often do want a desktop OS. But even then if it's one that's totally different from the one their used to with far less app support, you now have added complexity for that person who actually wanted more complexity than the console gamer.

jwcalla said:
There are some legitimate criticisms of Valve's efforts here but nobody in this thread has hit them yet. All we've had are the people who love to hate Valve because they have a good reputation in the industry (something relatively rare), and then those who feel sour because SteamOS isn't Windows-based (not Valve's fault; it's not like MS would ever license it under the circumstances). It's sort of ironic that people think Linux is not good enough for a Steam Machine, but magically FreeBSD is perfectly fine for PS4.
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I have many thousands invested in Steam games, I like the company. As for SteamOS not being Windows based, so what? The first SteamBoxed coming this fall are going to run Windows 8.1 because SteamOS isn't ready. And my guess is that there will be plenty of SteamBoxes, whatever that number of devices will be, that will have Windows on them. I mean, why the hell would I or anyone else buy thousands of dollars of Steam games only to buy a device to run Steam games that doesn't run all the games they invested in to save a $100 bucks on a Windows license? And for that matter I have a decent amount of money in Origin games as well.

The overall problem of SteamOS is that it's a solution to the "problem" of being dependent on Windows. A problem that quite frankly isn't a problem for people that simply want to run software.
 
I see the Steam Machine is an open console platform with with about as much DRM as most people will tolerate (games tied to an online account). Its not a replacement for a desktop PC. Valve is trying to remove Windows from the equation which is understandable considering how much disdain Microsoft has for PC gaming.

With how similar the platforms are these days (mostly just APIs) it wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing games on Linux, Mac & PS4 but not Windows/DirectX.
 
Shmee said:
I think this video shows the main problem with Steam machines, if you want a computer that works like a console, just get/make a mITX computer and plug in an Xbox controller.
Click to expand...

Ding ding ding. It isn't competing against consoles, its competing against Linux machines. And that's why it will fail.
 
Tak Ne said:
Valve is trying to remove Windows from the equation which is understandable considering how much disdain Microsoft has for PC gaming.
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Valve doing SteamOS/Box has nothing to do with whatever disdain Microsoft has for PC gaming. Valve is doing because of the Windows Store which is a direct competitor to Steam that's now on every new Windows device. So from Valve's perspective, SteamOS/Box does make a lot of business sense.

Tak Ne said:
With how similar the platforms are these days (mostly just APIs) it wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing games on Linux, Mac & PS4 but not Windows/DirectX.
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The problem here is that Windows PCs outnumber everything you listed here like 7 or 8 to 1. And it's not like Windows doesn't support OpenGL or another non-DX APIs.
 
crusty_juggler said:
Yeah. That was the strangest thing about the SteamOS/Machine/Controller hype. People who boisterously advocate the superiority of mouse+KB over all other input methods suddenly became rabid lobbyists of...touchpads.

Something tells me that if it was created by EA and called the Origin Controller, the Internets wouldn't have had such a positive reaction. There's something about Valve that makes nerds suspend all logic and reason and proceed to fawn ravenously.

Valve disciples are kinda like Apple enthusiasts in that regard. No offense to either group intended.
Click to expand...

That isn't at all what people became. People accept that the PC with desktop mouse and keyboard was never going to make it into the living room. No one thought the valve controller would equal that combo. What we think is there has to be something better, something in between a full mouse and keyboard and the garbage controllers that come from consoles. On top of that what valve and other who actually run HTPCs recognize is that the whole system from the ground up has to work well with a controller or a keyboard and mouse. And the joke of PC gaming has always been that the biggest players who are supposed to support us ALL have a console play and so ultimately they couldn't care less. The steambox is the ONLY, I repeat ONLY chance PC gaming has to make it in the living room. Not a single other player in the market cares in fact most have a strait up conflict of interest. I was never happy about the decision to use Linux but I applaud valve for actually trying to work out a better controller. And I also think its premature to call their controller garbage. The guy in the video says he tried real hadr for 3 days. Oh really? Is that how many days it took him to learn how to type, aim well, get used to a console controller? lol I have actually retrained people on new configurations in games and it takes WAY more than 3 measly days to become proficient. And in those cases its just a keyboard they already know.

We know valve works on valve time. And I will actually give them the chance to actually release a real product before I pass judgment.
 
jwcalla said:
Closed, specialized consoles like PS, Xbox, etc. are anachronisms of the 80s and not the future of gaming and entertainment in the living room. I actually think this is all kind of basic stuff.

Do people really expect there's just going to be a PS5 then a PS6 then a PS7 after we've all already admitted that these are just regular PCs that are made to not be upgradeable and with highly limited platform lock-in?
Click to expand...

Oh, at a minimum, there will be a PS9.
Sony said so back around 2001. :D

ps9.jpg
 
SteamOS had a brief moment in time, during the peak of people loathing MS and Win8 where it had a chance to become the de-facto Linux distro. THE, SINGLE, ONE DISTRO that would have finally united the Linux world under the gaming banner. Bringing all the top devs to the table kicking and screaming to support the alternate OS.

But Valve kept saying over and over and over and over that it wasn't supposed to be a native game playing platform for your AAA game titles. That "wasn't its purpose."

Well Valve SCREWED THE POOCH on that one. Instead of paying attention, CLOSE ATTENTION, to what practically EVERY GAMER WANTED... which was to finally have a COMPETITIVE ALTERNATIVE TO WINDOWS FOR A PRIMARY GAMING PC OS.

But that "wasn't the vision." They should have changed the damn vision right then and there and embraced what everyone wanted.

Now? It's too late. Again. Maybe if they did an about face, changed gears and decided to start developing SteamOS as a primary gaming OS this could be turned around but you have to strike while the iron is hot and it was hot six months ago. Today it's barely warm.

Oh well. I like Windows. Always have and likely always will but it would have been nice to finally have some competitive push come from a source like Valve rather than say Google a few years from now.
 
rudy said:
I was never happy about the decision to use Linux but I applaud valve for actually trying to work out a better controller.
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SteamBoxes can use Windows though. The controller works with Windows. With a lot more games and the first SteamBoxes are coming with Windows. Valve isn't being stupid here. Sure they may want more games on Linux but Windows users are 95% of their user base according to their own survey numbers. As much as people are talking about independence from Windows the SteamBox and controller were never built for that purpose.
 
heatlesssun said:
SteamBoxes can use Windows though. The controller works with Windows. With a lot more games and the first SteamBoxes are coming with Windows. Valve isn't being stupid here. Sure they may want more games on Linux but Windows users are 95% of their user base according to their own survey numbers. As much as people are talking about independence from Windows the SteamBox and controller were never built for that purpose.
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Exactly, Windows is far more than a market majority for Steam.
At a minimum, the systems could be set to dual-boot.

The SteamBox is such a better, and more open design than the proprietary consoles we have now.
More and more games are being released for Linux, but it will most likely take another 3-5 years at least to begin to match Windows on an even playing field, at least in terms of games released per OS.
 
Red Falcon said:
The SteamBox is such a better, and more open design than the proprietary consoles we have now.
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I completely agree, I really like the idea behind this. But it would have had ZERO chance of doing much without Windows support and even then the chances of much traction are still I think very low. For better or for worse, I just don't the average person with gaming consoles begging for PC flexibility.
 
heatlesssun said:
I completely agree, I really like the idea behind this. But it would have had ZERO chance of doing much without Windows support and even then the chances of much traction are still I think very low. For better or for worse, I just don't the average person with gaming consoles begging for PC flexibility.
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At this point in time, I don't either.
If this were the early 90's however, it would have been awesome.

The game library on Linux really needs to increase, but it is improving.
Until then, the Windows compatibility of these machines is a definite plus.
 
Heatless once again frantically replying to every single post made here as though his life or at least microsoft stock depended on it. Comedy.
 
jpm100 said:
The real question is what is the point of SteamOS.
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The point of SteamOS and Steambox is very simple: the world's biggest game distribution platform with 100 million users seeks to leverage that install base to take on Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo head on in the living room console space. That's the longterm goal. In a way they seek to apply the Android effect to the living room console: more open to user modification, more open to OEM's, more modular (in the sense the components are user upgradable or replaceable). Valve diversifying from dependence on Windows is secondary believe it or not. "Getting away from Windows" isn't the primary objective.

What they are NOT attempting to do is "take on the world" trying to increase linux desktop share or making linux relevant. Yes a rising SteamOS tide would float all Linux boats but that's not the objective, because there's no monetizing that. The people attempting to cloud the issue and make strawmen arguments about "but linux desktop hasn't taken off yet after all these years and there aren't many gaymes on linux, and windoze has more gaymes" whenever SteamOS comes up are either being intentionally obtuse or just don't see the bigger picture.

Why would developers create titles for SteamOS, when "Linux haz no gaymes"? The company behind it. Much in the same way developers began creating titles for PS4 and Xbox One before they released, developers have a certain amount of trust in Valve and their longterm ambitions, and have been quietly working under NDA on their SteamOS launch titles. And Valve will not launch the platform officially until a stellar launch lineup is ready.
 
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