maxwell & HDMI 2.0 4k usage

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deasnutz

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
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Anyone using a 4k TV with HDMI 2.0 and a 9xx card? Curious how much it improves color, etc. Also curious about input lag you see your 4k TV's.

Thanks
 
I have a Sony VPL-VW1100ES 4k projector (4096x2160 native). I ordered two 980's yesterday, gotta wait till Monday night to try them out, we'll see.....:)
 
I just hooked up the 980 to my Samsung HU8550. Looks great, and the input lag seems to be fine, it feels comparable to my LG UM95. I have another 980 and SLI is working fine too.

The only issue is, for some reason the TV won't run in "PC mode" at this resolution. This is done by renaming the input to PC to disable all processing features and lower input lag, however, it has no effect at 4K/60Hz.

I'm running it in Game mode for now, which is fine, but from earlier reports PC mode has even lower input lag when running in 1080p so I'd like to use that instead. I'm guessing this is an issue on Samsung's end and not NV's though.

What's weird is "PC mode" works if I force 30Hz instead.
 
x3sphere said:
The only issue is, for some reason the TV won't run in "PC mode" at this resolution. This is done by renaming the input to PC to disable all processing features and lower input lag, however, it has no effect at 4K/60Hz. I'm running it in Game mode for now, which is fine, but from earlier reports PC mode has even lower input lag when running in 1080p so I'd like to use that instead. I'm guessing this is an issue on Samsung's end and not NV's though. What's weird is "PC mode" works if I force 30Hz instead.
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I am theorizing now but it looks to me that "PC mode" is the mode which is not supporting HDMI 2.0 and just HDMI 1.4. This due to the fact there were no PC's with the HDMI 2.0 output when they made TVs then, only HDMI 1.4.
 
wirk said:
I am theorizing now but it looks to me that "PC mode" is the mode which is not supporting HDMI 2.0 and just HDMI 1.4. This due to the fact there were no PC's with the HDMI 2.0 output when they made TVs then, only HDMI 1.4.
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Possibly, I think it could also be that for whatever reason, the TV doesn't recognize 4K/60Hz in the lookup table as a PC resolution, so the setting doesn't apply.

Hopefully a firmware fix comes out or something, as without PC mode on text has a fuzzy look to it around the edges, making this hard to use a desktop monitor. Everything else looks fine, though.

Also, noticed today on an all black BG that I was getting some white sparkly dots on the screen. Turns out this was due to the cable I was using (25 ft) - swapped it with a 15ft HDMI and those dots went away. Don't know if it was a defective cable or due to the length, but something to keep in mind.
 
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So are you happy with that setup? I'm considering going the 4k tv route, as it like the motion processing and the size. I'm coming from an eizo fg2421 24" 120hz, 780 sli. I play games like bf4 and watch dogs, so I'm a little concerned about input lag and image clarity.

Thanks
 
deasnutz said:
So are you happy with that setup? I'm considering going the 4k tv route, as it like the motion processing and the size. I'm coming from an eizo fg2421 24" 120hz, 780 sli. I play games like bf4 and watch dogs, so I'm a little concerned about input lag and image clarity.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I'd wait for someone to get a direct measurement of the input lag. It hasn't been a problem for me but I also don't play many twitch shooters.

Games looks great, it's just the way text is being rendered that is bugging me. See this image:

60 Hz: http://i.picpar.com/Theb.jpg
30 Hz: http://i.picpar.com/Yheb.jpg

I took this close up, so it really makes the issue overblown but you can see some strong yellow fringing on the edges of text in the 60 Hz shot. I don't think I am getting full RGB output despite these cards supporting HDMI 2.0. In the 30 Hz shot, the text looks much cleaner. Not sure what could be wrong.
 
x3sphere said:
I'd wait for someone to get a direct measurement of the input lag. It hasn't been a problem for me but I also don't play many twitch shooters.

Games looks great, it's just the way text is being rendered that is bugging me. See this image:

60 Hz: http://i.picpar.com/Theb.jpg
30 Hz: http://i.picpar.com/Yheb.jpg

I took this close up, so it really makes the issue overblown but you can see some strong yellow fringing on the edges of text in the 60 Hz shot. I don't think I am getting full RGB output despite these cards supporting HDMI 2.0. In the 30 Hz shot, the text looks much cleaner. Not sure what could be wrong.
Click to expand...

Looks like you're at 4:2:0 chroma, most 4tvs out right now claim hdmi 2.0 but dont support its full bandwidth, meaning your capped at 4k 60hz 4:2:0 which will give horrible text quailty.
 
jtw473 said:
Looks like you're at 4:2:0 chroma, most 4tvs out right now claim hdmi 2.0 but dont support its full bandwidth, meaning your capped at 4k 60hz 4:2:0 which will give horrible text quailty.
Click to expand...

It should support it though, here's a page from the manual:

cieb.jpg


Could be a bug with the Maxwell drivers, who knows. I've posted about it on the NV forums, hopefully it gets some visibility from someone on the staff over there.
 
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I just bought a MSI GTX 970 which supposely supports HDMI 2.0 though the website states it still supports HDMI 1.4a and I'm still getting that colour loss at 60Hz... not sure if this card is lacking HDMI 2.0 support or I'm doing something wrong.
 
ChronoDetector said:
I just bought a MSI GTX 970 which supposely supports HDMI 2.0 though the website states it still supports HDMI 1.4a and I'm still getting that colour loss at 60Hz... not sure if this card is lacking HDMI 2.0 support or I'm doing something wrong.
Click to expand...

Interesting, although I would bet it's just a misprint on the site. Mine is an evga, it's the reference 980 model and I don't appear to be getting full 4:4:4.
 
So is there anybody else who has a Maxwell card who has a 4K display using a HDMI connection and also getting the colour loss as well?
 
Supraman321 said:
I have a Sony VPL-VW1100ES 4k projector (4096x2160 native). I ordered two 980's yesterday, gotta wait till Monday night to try them out, we'll see.....:)
Click to expand...

So... Did it work? Not that I'm in the market for a projector the price of a mid-range car. :D
 
Ok, I can confirm that the MSI GTX 970/980 does have HDMI 2.0 support, I finally got mine to work it at full colour at 60Hz, it appears I just plugged my cable into the wrong HDMI port on my TV... didn't even know that only one HDMI port on my TV only had 2.0 support while the rest where 1.4a.
 
I remember reading somewhere that hdmi (at least older revisions) can't do full color, rgb, 0-255, 4:4:4 all that jazz when its also transporting audio. maybe newer revisions of hdmi have fixed that, i don't know that much about it, but are you running audio through hdmi? if so try not and see if you get your full color range.
 
Avatar82 said:
I remember reading somewhere that hdmi (at least older revisions) can't do full color, rgb, 0-255, 4:4:4 all that jazz when its also transporting audio. maybe newer revisions of hdmi have fixed that, i don't know that much about it, but are you running audio through hdmi? if so try not and see if you get your full color range.
Click to expand...

This came to mind as well but didn't fix it in my case. Completely disabled audio through the NV drivers.

Someone on another forum says they have 4:4:4 output but I am not convinced, as they say text looks fine to them even when not in PC mode. Every Samsung TV I've owned has needed the input renamed to PC to get full RGB output, regardless of resolution.

People with Sony and Visio sets having issues too. Only seems to be working with LG sets.
 
What could be happening guys is the HDCP 2.2 issue which last I read nerfs HDMI 2.0 down to 4k/30hz. It might just deliver 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 color as well. Once I get confirmation that Maxwell delivers 4k/60hz 4:4:4 color and provides HDCP 2.2 over that connection then it might be time to jump on the upgrade bandwagon.
 
My LG TV provides 4:4:4 colour at 60Hz/2160p, with my GTX 970, my TV brand is the LG 55UB8500.

Though I heard Sony and other TV manufacturers can't provide full colour at 60Hz... yet.
 
ChronoDetector said:
Ok, I can confirm that the MSI GTX 970/980 does have HDMI 2.0 support, I finally got mine to work it at full colour at 60Hz, it appears I just plugged my cable into the wrong HDMI port on my TV... didn't even know that only one HDMI port on my TV only had 2.0 support while the rest where 1.4a.
Click to expand...

yes, they have full support, Brent confirmed to us yesterday.. the Global MSI site has been updated but not the US site..
 
ChronoDetector said:
Yes, but if I plug it to that port I will get that colour loss. I have to plug it on the HDMI port with 10 bit to get full colour.
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I have the 49UB8500. You are just talking about the labels by the HDMI ports right? Ignore them. I have no idea why they are there, but they make no sense.

Port 3 is HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 compatible. The rest are not so don't use them unless you have to. My TV came with a little card saying as much.
 
x3sphere said:
Someone on another forum says they have 4:4:4 output but I am not convinced, as they say text looks fine to them even when not in PC mode. Every Samsung TV I've owned has needed the input renamed to PC to get full RGB output, regardless of resolution.
Click to expand...

Final standard for the 4:4:4 color space has NOT been finalized yet. To get 4:4:4 you have to have everything in line as such: Actual true 10-bit panel (or higher) for over a billion colors, actual true HDMI 2.0b OUTPUT,(2.0a supports upto 10Gbps) that supports 18Gbps thorough put for True 4K@60hz+. Most TV's coming out now are 2.0b or will be soon. But unless they all start making 10-bit panels, its really Pseudo 4K color space. When 4K actually meets REC 2020 color space, you will be blown away by it and look back at how bad todays 4K really is and how they screwed the market in quality to be "first".

The reason their is so much confusion over 4K is the standard were not agreed upon when 4K came to market. Wish I had the chart still. By 2016 all TV's are suppose to meet the new standard of being HDMI 2.0b and 10-bit panels to be able to meet the color space met by REC 2020 as opposed to REC 709 being used today.

Oh and that Samsung 8550 is an 8 bit panel and why it really is cheaper than the 9000 series, not because the 9000 has a curve. It was established over at AVS forum through serial numbers that the 65" and 78" 9000 series are the only "10-bit" panels on the market capable of the REC 2020 color space. Problem is there is no source till 4K Blu-ray.

And guys, the GTX 970 and 980 do not output HDMI 2.0 from what I have seen. Its compatible yes. And from what I can tell, not much of difference in FPS in 4K over the 780 series. Basically a really power efficient 1080p, 1440p, and 1600p card.
 
SnowBeast said:
Final standard for the 4:4:4 color space has NOT been finalized yet. To get 4:4:4 you have to have everything in line as such: Actual true 10-bit panel (or higher) for over a billion colors, actual true HDMI 2.0b OUTPUT,(2.0a supports upto 10Gbps) that supports 18Gbps thorough put for True 4K@60hz+. Most TV's coming out now are 2.0b or will be soon. But unless they all start making 10-bit panels, its really Pseudo 4K color space. When 4K actually meets REC 2020 color space, you will be blown away by it and look back at how bad todays 4K really is and how they screwed the market in quality to be "first".

The reason their is so much confusion over 4K is the standard were not agreed upon when 4K came to market. Wish I had the chart still. By 2016 all TV's are suppose to meet the new standard of being HDMI 2.0b and 10-bit panels to be able to meet the color space met by REC 2020 as opposed to REC 709 being used today.

Oh and that Samsung 8550 is an 8 bit panel and why it really is cheaper than the 9000 series, not because the 9000 has a curve. It was established over at AVS forum through serial numbers that the 65" and 78" 9000 series are the only "10-bit" panels on the market capable of the REC 2020 color space. Problem is there is no source till 4K Blu-ray.

And guys, the GTX 970 and 980 do not output HDMI 2.0 from what I have seen. Its compatible yes. And from what I can tell, not much of difference in FPS in 4K over the 780 series. Basically a really power efficient 1080p, 1440p, and 1600p card.
Click to expand...

This can't be entirely true. The manual for the HU8550 says it supports 60 Hz @ 4K 4:4:4. And anyway... 4:4:4 isn't the same as meeting REC 2020 standards. The display can output 4:4:4 fine at 4K, it has no issue doing so at 30 Hz. The issue with 60 Hz is either an incompatibility with the graphics card or firmware issue.

Also HU9000 owners are having the same issue as me, stuck with 4:2:0 output at 60 Hz even with the new Nvidia cards.
 
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