The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

Noplace said:
Hey man I registered here just to tell you that I'm willing to buy this thing (whichever variation, I'm desperate) can you please give an ETA and ordering info?
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Wahaha360 said he believed it would take a year. I think that is indeed reasonable.

There is no definite ETA because this case is just a 3D model at the moment. There first needs to be plenty of decisions made, checked with Lian-Li if everything is possible for manufacturing, work out the cost, get a prototype funded, test hardware on it, get possible revisions through, plan construction, get people's orders and payments, plan shipments, ... I'm probably forgetting a few steps.
 
I think I'm losing my mind. I actually think number 4 looks best with an ODD slot. It somehow brings balance to the front of the case, instead of everything being down along the bottom edge with nothing on the top.

That being said, I still most prefer the original design without an ODD. Limiting video card length seems like a mistake to me. NVIDIA has been good about keeping their designs to 10.5" or less, but AMD hasn't, and plenty of (most?) 290X are >10.8". I don't think it's reasonable to completely forsake big red to bring in an ODD for a few. Obvioulsy this discussion may change once the 800/900 series is released if NVIDIA goes long or if the new ATI cards are shorter.
 
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Phuncz said:
With that said, I like variations 3 & 4 the most, considering with or without ODD. But the original design (start post) still has my strongest support. #ODDisforgranny
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The original premise was a "Steam Machine / Living Room PC (LRPC)".

There was a sizable majority for the ODD version of the original NCase, which was not a living room friendly design, whereas this one most definitely is.

Many (most?) of these cases are likely to be placed in the horizontal position below or near an AVR receiver and a flat screen TV in peoples' living rooms.

ODD may well be for granny, but there are billions of Blu-ray discs out there, and watching Blu-ray quality beats streaming any day of the week. There are limited bandwidth issues to consider as well.

We need an ODD option of some kind.

My choice: Variation 4 horizontal, black with ODD and silver feet. Classy. :p
 
Phuncz said:
- this is NOT an HTPC case, this is a STEAM MACHINE case.
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Well thanks for clearing that up, glad we all had Phuncz here to decide what we all want in our STEAM MACHINE cases :rolleyes:

Put me down for the ODD version, because if I'm going to build a steam machine, it is going to replace an HTPC and would want it to be capable of doing as much of what my HTPC can do as possible. Having two devices is a no go, and most of the other options are way bigger compromises than the kind of compromise that would be required by this case with an ODD
 
IVEST said:
ODD may well be for granny, but there are billions of Blu-ray discs out there, and watching Blu-ray quality beats streaming any day of the week.
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Yes, and a stand-alone bluray player is best for this. Not an HTPC.
 
backfeed said:
Yes, and a stand-alone bluray player is best for this. Not an HTPC.
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I agree. The software for watching Blu-rays on PC, last time I checked, is both 1) expensive and 2) terrible. I haven't looked in some time though, so that may have changed. Something to do with needing a license to decrypt the stream, and no open source project (i.e. VLC) is willing to use a crack method to allow playback? I really know nothing about this area.
 
backfeed said:
The usb ports cause an internal clearance issue with the graphics card (limiting its maximum length) in all variants except the original.
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Seems like a damn good reason to stick the to original design. #dieodd
 
Bobalias_LeShay said:
The software for watching Blu-rays on PC, last time I checked, is both 1) expensive and 2) terrible. I haven't looked in some time though, so that may have changed.
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A legit copy of PowerDVD costs as much as or even more than a hardware Blu-ray player these days, believe it or not. Oh, and current version of PowerDVD sucks balls. You could rip your own Blu-rays, but the software for that costs as much as a standalone player too. Licensing costs of the keys and all that.

You'll also need a stand alone player to get a decent Netflix, Hulu, iPlayer, etc client. You could do their respective web browser clients, but fuck that on a HTPC.

People who refuse to use a standalone player clearly haven't seen just how bad the DVD/Blu-ray and streaming client HTPC software is.
 
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Bobalias_LeShay said:
I agree. The software for watching Blu-rays on PC, last time I checked, is both 1) expensive and 2) terrible. I haven't looked in some time though, so that may have changed. Something to do with needing a license to decrypt the stream, and no open source project (i.e. VLC) is willing to use a crack method to allow playback? I really know nothing about this area.
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There are no open source ways to remove the encryption, but you can easily buy software that does it. It might be more expensive than a crappy standalone BD player, but you can then simply use MPC-HC for BD playback on HTPC.
 
I'll stick with a PC for BD playback. AnyDVDHD, MPC-HC, MadVR and Reclock will provide output quality you won't surpass until you spend a few thousand on professional video processing gear. A standalone player is hamstrung by region restrictions, poor performance (particularly for BD-J menus), and unskippable segments.
 
EdZ said:
AnyDVDHD, MPC-HC, MadVR and Reclock will provide output quality you won't surpass until you spend a few thousand on professional video processing gear.
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Few thousand? Try $150 or less. Modern hardware scalers in standalone players (and A/V receivers and TVs) are now so good that the $$$ high-end standalone scaler market has imploded. Why pay money for something that's no better than what's built-in to the hardware you already have? That and the standalone box is probably running FFmpeg or LAV Filters anyways, just with the benefit of ASIC acceleration.
 
backfeed said:
Yes, and a stand-alone bluray player is best for this. Not an HTPC.
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Speak for yourself. (It's Blu-ray, not bluray by the way.)

I already have two of those. A Denon DBT-3313 UDCI Universal Audio/Video Player and a Sony PS4, but that doesn't mean that an ODD wouldn't be a very handy thing to have in a STEAM / LRPC case.
 
Clearly, for whatever reasons, the market has spoken. Looks like ODD must be included and I support this feature if it gets more ncases sold.

Personally I think its inclusion has net negative effects on the overall design and functionality (e.g. shorter gpu allowance; variations 1-3) but it appears that quite a lot of people want this feature. I can only hope that when it comes time to order, they do so; or else this wouldve been particularly costly to the design team wrt to time and being first to market.

I very much prefer the original design with no ODD, but design 4 along with AFD's groove design have my votes.

Count me on buying one without an ODD.

I can say that I am grateful that Necere has relatively ignored the watercooling crowd on this one. If he doesn't, I will go Phuncz on everyone here.
 
I think we're getting off topic by debating the merits of a Blu-ray player as part of a PC versus a standalone player. The focus of my point is that there are unacceptable trade-offs to including an ODD in this case regardless of whether or not it's useful to have an ODD. Namely, you won't be able to use any 290X that I can find. Who knows how long future cards are going to be. It would be really unfortunate if I can't use a top end graphics card from either manufacturer by the time the case shows up on my doorstep next year.

(Here are some lengths for different 290X coolers. 10.8 inches is just under 275mm http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290-and-290x,3728-3.html)
 
Bobalias_LeShay said:
I think we're getting off topic by debating the merits of a Blu-ray player as part of a PC versus a standalone player. The focus of my point is that there are unacceptable trade-offs to including an ODD in this case regardless of whether or not it's useful to have an ODD. Namely, you won't be able to use any 290X that I can find. Who knows how long future cards are going to be. It would be really unfortunate if I can't use a top end graphics card from either manufacturer by the time the case shows up on my doorstep next year.

(Here are some lengths for different 290X coolers. 10.8 inches is just under 275mm http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290-and-290x,3728-3.html)
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And just how are you going to satisfy the 7-800 Watt power supply requirement of cards like this inside such a tiny case? And what about the heat? There's no water cooling option. Let's be realistic.
 
I honestly prefer the original no ODD-slot design as it looks cleaner and as other have said optical media is not used much by many and an ODD is just costly. Much easier to just use an external blu-ray player. Also, I was wondering if it was possible to make the case smaller to around 8L.
 
Optik said:
Clearly, for whatever reasons, the market has spoken.
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A few people voicing their minds isn't definitive. Especially if people keep whining about their DVD and Blu-ray collections for a Steam Machine case.
It's the same kind of people that wanted the Ncase M1 to be compatible with mATX and 1000W PSU's: the trolls just want to change it so much it becomes another crappy case other manufacturers already make.

Activate: AMD said:
Well thanks for clearing that up, glad we all had Phuncz here to decide what we all want in our STEAM MACHINE cases :rolleyes:
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STFU if you don't read this topic or even the topic start. I don't decide which case Necere makes or what his mission is, it is written very clearly in the start post.

If this was a HTPC case, it would undoubtibly have an ODD slot and would have been called that way. Necere already said this was designed as a Steam Machine because there are no cases that follow Valve's specs (Steam Machine concept is from Valve). He also said he is not interested in making cases that already exist.

HTPC cases aren't new and many different cases have already been done, an Intel NUC + NAS can already do 99% any other HTPC can, so why make a case that doesn't allow an ODD but does allow 11" GPU's ?

IVEST said:
There was a sizable majority for the ODD version of the original NCase, which was not a living room friendly design, whereas this one most definitely is.
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The Ncase M1 is a desktop PC tower case designed two years ago. People, like me, have already said that they chose not to eliminate the option to ever put an ODD in, back then. The final design also had the ODD space worked into the case so there was no advantage to go without the ODD, except for the slot in the top panel.

IVEST said:
We need an ODD option of some kind.
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"We" = people interested in a HTPC case --> www.streacom.com or www.silverstonetek.com
Much more choices and you don't need to wait a year.

IVEST said:
And just how are you going to satisfy the 7-800 Watt power supply requirement of cards like this inside such a tiny case? And what about the heat? There's no water cooling option. Let's be realistic.
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My R9 290X runs perfectly well on the 450W PSU most of the Ncase M1 users use. Like so many Ncase M1 owners in this forum.

Why do you think Necere thinks it's important to maintain the 11" GPU length ? For those GTX 750Ti's ? Or those passive R7 260's ? This case isn't designed for whimpy HTPC GPU's, but for gaming GPU's that belong in a Steam Machine.
 
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Phuncz said:
STFU if you don't read this topic or even the topic start. I don't decide which case Necere makes or what his mission is, it is written very clearly in the start post

If this was a HTPC case, it would undoubtibly have an ODD slot and would have been called that way. Necere already said this was designed as a Steam Machine because there are no cases that follow Valve's specs (Steam Machine concept is from Valve). He also said he is not interested in making cases that already exist.

HTPC cases aren't new and many different cases have already been done, an Intel NUC + NAS can already do 99% any other HTPC can, so why make a case that doesn't allow an ODD but does allow 11" GPU's ?
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Ok smart ass, I was the 21st post on this thread so don't think I haven't been paying attention. What you are doing is separating HTPC from "steam machine", or as Necere has called "LRPC" Why on earth do you assume that I don't want a LRPC to do everything my HTPC can plus play games? If i wanted a NUC i would buy one. It would be awesome if I could combine the HTPC functionality I already have with the power of a full gaming PC in this form factor, but I can't. Just because you think you have some idea of what an HTPC is in your head doesn't mean that is what people want out of a case like this. Who the hell are you to say an external drive isn't just as much of a compromise to me as having a slit in the front is to you? If it completely kills high-end GPU compatibility that'd be one thing, but since feedback has been solicited, why not challenge the designers to try to incorporate an ODD?
 
you're doing god's work phuncz. haha. im glad i have no plans to buy this case or i would be pretty frustrated by the absurd demands for an odd in 2015.

NECERE: is there any chance you can make a final ruling on odd go/no go so this debate can be put to rest and we can move on to other things or is it still up in the air for you and w360 as well?
 
Activate: AMD said:
Ok smart ass, I was the 21st post on this thread so don't think I haven't been paying attention. What you are doing is separating HTPC from "steam machine", or as Necere has called "LRPC" Why on earth do you assume that I don't want a LRPC to do everything my HTPC can plus play games? If i wanted a NUC i would buy one. It would be awesome if I could combine the HTPC functionality I already have with the power of a full gaming PC in this form factor, but I can't. Just because you think you have some idea of what an HTPC is in your head doesn't mean that is what people want out of a case like this. Who the hell are you to say an external drive isn't just as much of a compromise to me as having a slit in the front is to you? If it completely kills high-end GPU compatibility that'd be one thing, but since feedback has been solicited, why not challenge the designers to try to incorporate an ODD?
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Well said there. I second you fully.

Also, for those who want cleanslean front. They can just as easily offer no-odd front panel as they did with M1.

ps. i like 3 the most.

pss. i have come to like this case desing more than ncase styled front.
 
Phuncz said:
A few people voicing their minds isn't definitive.

My R9 290X runs perfectly well on the 450W PSU most of the Ncase M1 users use. Like so many Ncase M1 owners in this forum.

Why do you think Necere thinks it's important to maintain the 11" GPU length ? For those GTX 750Ti's ? Or those passive R7 260's ? This case isn't designed for whimpy HTPC GPU's, but for gaming GPU's that belong in a Steam Machine.
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It's democracy in action. :D

You appear to have a fully water cooled CPU & GPU arrangement in your NCASE 1. You won't have that option in your "Steam Machine". A very busy Radeon R9 290X is likely to "fry the finish" and damage or kill a puny SFF power supply.
 
IVEST said:
It's democracy in action. :D

You appear to have a fully water cooled CPU & GPU arrangement in your NCASE 1. You won't have that option in your "Steam Machine". A very busy Radeon R9 290X is likely to "fry the finish" and damage or kill a puny SFF power supply.
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hey. you're in the other thread saying that sfx cant handle full-power cards too. this is plain wrong, stop saying it. MANY people run 290s on the ST45SF and now there's a 600W sfx out so clearly you should stop trying to mislead people. we already know it is fine, and just makes you look dumb when you keep insisting it isnt. and saying the heat will ruin the finish? do you have any idea what you're talking about?

PHUNCZ: can you make another render or two like the ones on the last page but with the line for ODD going all the way across? i think it might look nicer to have it look more like a style feature than just a 5" wide slit. could be very wrong though, and of course i still fully support no ODD. :)
 
IVEST said:
And just how are you going to satisfy the 7-800 Watt power supply requirement of cards like this inside such a tiny case? And what about the heat? There's no water cooling option. Let's be realistic.
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People have been running the 290X on the Silverstone 450W SFX supply without issue in the M1. Now there's a 600W available. Power is decidedly not a problem. As for cooling, you'll notice that very few graphics cards come with water cooling from the factory. (The 295X2 is the only one I can think of, aside from non-standard cards like the EVGA hydro coppers) Air cooling isn't a problem either. You're new so I'll cut you some slack, but please don't spread falsehoods, we try to avoid that here.
 
Activate: AMD said:
What you are doing is separating HTPC from "steam machine", or as Necere has called "LRPC" Why on earth do you assume that I don't want a LRPC to do everything my HTPC can plus play games?
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Probably because most HTPC users want an ODD and one or more 3,5" HDD's in a case specifically designed without those in mind.
While you think I'm seperating the case-designs (they are legitimately different), I see it as you and others trying to have this case adjusted to their needs so it still fits the HTPC requirements.

Let me be clear: I like the case how it is on the first post, I would immediately buy it like it is. You want to force everyone to live with the modification to support ODD and accept this is just as much of an HTPC as this is a Steam Machine. But it's not, otherwise it would have had an ODD from the start.

Activate: AMD said:
It would be awesome if I could combine the HTPC functionality I already have with the power of a full gaming PC in this form factor, but I can't.
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The problem is that this complicates things: GPU size supported is smaller, Lian-Li needs to make more versions of this case, Wahaha360 needs to handle the shipment of the extra versions. Because some people can't live with an external drive of a dying format.

Activate: AMD said:
Ok smart ass... Just because you think you have some idea... Who the hell are you...
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It is very clear you have an issue with me. Take it up with the staff or speak to me directly if you can't discuss without resorting to name-calling and taking it personal.

ekuest said:
so this debate can be put to rest
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If the Ncase M1 topic is a good measure, this discussion will reappear atleast every week, I'm afraid, no matter what is chosen.

ekuest said:
PHUNCZ: can you make another render
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I didn't make any renders, I just put all of Necere's pics into a collage :) But I don't want to do this for every single itteration others make, it takes up a lot of time and it will not help having 12 or 15 different versions that Necere might not even consider. I did this because Necere's variations were spread over multiple pages and hard to compare.
 
ekuest said:
hey. you're in the other thread saying that sfx cant handle full-power cards too. this is plain wrong, stop saying it. MANY people run 290s on the ST45SF and now there's a 600W sfx out so clearly you should stop trying to mislead people. we already know it is fine, and just makes you look dumb when you keep insisting it isnt. and saying the heat will ruin the finish? do you have any idea what you're talking about?

FYI: I have never posted in any other thread in this forum.

Makers of 290s recommend 700+ Watt power supplies. They do that for a reason.

The "fry the finish" is in quotes, and not meant to be taken literally.

By the way: The new 600 Watt SilverStone SFX PSU got less than stellar reviews:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014..._sx600g_600w_power_supply_review#.VAYlpWO2hCM
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Phuncz, I think Activate: AMD's point is that he thinks that you are acting like this is your thread. And to be fair you were the one who told him to 'stfu' first.
 
Bobalias_LeShay said:
People have been running the 290X on the Silverstone 450W SFX supply without issue in the M1. Now there's a 600W available. Power is decidedly not a problem. As for cooling, you'll notice that very few graphics cards come with water cooling from the factory. (The 295X2 is the only one I can think of, aside from non-standard cards like the EVGA hydro coppers) Air cooling isn't a problem either. You're new so I'll cut you some slack, but please don't spread falsehoods, we try to avoid that here.
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Thank you for the condescending endorsement. Very nice.

FYI: I have been in IT professionally since the late 1970s, probably about the time your parents were born.
 
IVEST said:
ekuest said:
hey. you're in the other thread saying that sfx cant handle full-power cards too. this is plain wrong, stop saying it. MANY people run 290s on the ST45SF and now there's a 600W sfx out so clearly you should stop trying to mislead people. we already know it is fine, and just makes you look dumb when you keep insisting it isnt. and saying the heat will ruin the finish? do you have any idea what you're talking about?
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FYI: I have never posted in any other thread in this forum.

Makers of 290s recommend 700+ Watt power supplies. They do that for a reason.

The "fry the finish" is in quotes, and not meant to be taken literally.

By the way: The new 600 Watt SilverStone SFX PSU got less than stellar reviews:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014..._sx600g_600w_power_supply_review#.VAYlpWO2hCM
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my apologies, i thought you had posted in the A4 thread too, but i guess it was just earlier in this thread. the fact remains, tons of people are running titans and 290Xs on the 450W version, and now there's also a 600W version. sure it is not 100% top of the line components like enthusiasts like to see, but everything was still within spec and it received a silver award and a pass from [H]. if your computing is important enough that you require gold only then you should also probably require redundant power supplies and ecc ram, as well as a quadro instead of a consumer parts, etc. this is a steam machine, a gaming pc, and a slightly below top of the line psu is plenty good enough. we are used to making small compromises for the sake of fitting a badass gaming rig into a tiny form factor.
 
IVEST said:
Makers of 290s recommend 700+ Watt power supplies. They do that for a reason.
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you are absolutely right. to cover their asses and to sell you more expensive power supplies. this is common knowledge to anyone who has been building consumer-grade computers for the last 10 years.
 
IVEST said:
ekuest said:
hey. you're in the other thread saying that sfx cant handle full-power cards too. this is plain wrong, stop saying it. MANY people run 290s on the ST45SF and now there's a 600W sfx out so clearly you should stop trying to mislead people. we already know it is fine, and just makes you look dumb when you keep insisting it isnt. and saying the heat will ruin the finish? do you have any idea what you're talking about?

FYI: I have never posted in any other thread in this forum.

Makers of 290s recommend 700+ Watt power supplies. They do that for a reason.

The "fry the finish" is in quotes, and not meant to be taken literally.

By the way: The new 600 Watt SilverStone SFX PSU got less than stellar reviews:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014..._sx600g_600w_power_supply_review#.VAYlpWO2hCM
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How is a silver award, and a certified pass rating bad? Sure its not a gold rating but its still recommended.
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energizerfellow said:
A legit copy of PowerDVD costs as much as or even more than a hardware Blu-ray player these days, believe it or not. Oh, and current version of PowerDVD sucks balls. You could rip your own Blu-rays, but the software for that costs as much as a standalone player too. Licensing costs of the keys and all that.

You'll also need a stand alone player to get a decent Netflix, Hulu, iPlayer, etc client. You could do their respective web browser clients, but fuck that on a HTPC.

People who refuse to use a standalone player clearly haven't seen just how bad the DVD/Blu-ray and streaming client HTPC software is.
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Makemkv is free, rips bluerays perfectly into 100% quality mkv files. Netflix and Hulu stream great on my htpc fwiw
 
ekuest said:
my apologies, i thought you had posted in the A4 thread too, but i guess it was just earlier in this thread. the fact remains, tons of people are running titans and 290Xs on the 450W version....
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Apology accepted.

And these are the same people who are complaining loudly about the fan noise emanating from the SFX 450 Watt SilverStone power supply. There's a reason why that poor thing is working overtime.
 
ekuest said:
you are absolutely right. to cover their asses and to sell you more expensive power supplies. this is common knowledge to anyone who has been building consumer-grade computers for the last 10 years.
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I have been doing just that for the last 40 years give or take.

Off hand I can't think of any video adapter manufacturer who is also in the PSU business. Can you?
 
ivest: please stop spreading misinformation wrt to SFX psus.

for example, the silverstone 450w sfx easily handles an i5 + 290x. This is a well documented; (if not hundreds) of independent builds over the last year or so.
 
IVEST said:
I have been doing just that for the last 40 years give or take.

Off hand I can't think of any video adapter manufacturer who is also in the PSU business. Can you?
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then honestly you should know better. if my 280X requires a 500W psu (per manufacturer) then how come it has been running perfectly on a 450W psu? and how do you explain all the other people running 290s and titans on it? there is tons of incontrovertible proof that those ratings are always highly overestimated. you can make the argument that psus are at their most efficient around 50%, so in that case you would be saving your customers money in the long term which is a perfectly valid reason. but as far as 450W not being enough, that is clearly not true.

and since you asked, i know EVGA does, and i think XFX and BFG do/did? not sure. i wasn't implying it was a direct cause/effect, but more like over time it has been in someone's best interest to exaggerate and over time it's just become the norm. they may also compute for worst case scenario, like dual hex-cores and all ram slots filled and 10 HDDs or something so that they aren't liable if you are dumb and dont compute your actual needs. they dont want to get a million RMAs from people who need 500W because of peripherals and then buy a 450W psu and assume their card is dead because their computer booted just fine without it.
 
Just curious, how thick is the aluminum on this case? It seems like 1mm since it's 16mm from the mobo plate to the top of the IHS (Intel's socket specs are online and they list top of motherboard PCB to top of IHS along with minimum standoff height, so no this number was not from nowhere). That means 76mm along with 4mm space for materials (assuming the 80mm height). Construction seems to be a separate motherboard plate that sandwiches the frame with the back panel/bottom panel.

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041054109&postcount=111

So that's already 3mm with 1mm thick aluminum so we basically have exactly 60mm of height (16mm from motherboard tray to top of IHS has a sub-1mm tolerance. It's 6.35mm/0.25" standoffs with 1.6mm max thick PCB (0.062" according to Intel mobo spec) with LGA1150 socket + IHS being slightly below 8mm and LGA2011 being a little above 8mm. Worst case scenario is 15.95mm or so).

Just curious.
 
Activate: AMD said:
There are no open source ways to remove the encryption, but you can easily buy software that does it. It might be more expensive than a crappy standalone BD player, but you can then simply use MPC-HC for BD playback on HTPC.
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EdZ said:
I'll stick with a PC for BD playback. AnyDVDHD, MPC-HC, MadVR and Reclock will provide output quality you won't surpass until you spend a few thousand on professional video processing gear. A standalone player is hamstrung by region restrictions, poor performance (particularly for BD-J menus), and unskippable segments.
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Yes, AnyDVD HD is handy. It's also 60€ a year if you want updates (not for me though, since I bought a life time license a long time ago). The fact that AnyDVD HD even exists, says a lot about how well suited an HTPC actually is to play bluray discs.

As far as I know, MPC-HC can only play the video files, it has no support for bluray menus? Only PowerDVD and very few others (I forget their names) can.

I've had HTPC's since 2003, and through the years disc playback (particularly bluray) has always been problematic in one way or the other. PowerDVD has only gotten worse with time, and while AnyDVD HD can bypass region restrictions and remove commercials (which are the sole reasons I'm using it), it is not without its issues either. Plus it adds a scanning delay every time.

I'm pretty fed up with disc playback in an HTPC, and would give it up in a heartbeat if the truly region free and high quality stand-alone bluray players weren't so outrageously expensive. Or at least they used to be. Should check again.

IVEST said:
I already have two of those. A Denon DBT-3313 UDCI Universal Audio/Video Player and a Sony PS4, but that doesn't mean that an ODD wouldn't be a very handy thing to have in a STEAM / LRPC case.
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Since you already have two stand-alone bluray players, you don't actually need an ODD in this case, right? For what other reason would an ODD actually be a necessity? I personally don't think "handy" is a good enough reason for the waste of gpu space it indirectly causes.

IVEST said:
And just how are you going to satisfy the 7-800 Watt power supply requirement of cards like this inside such a tiny case? And what about the heat? There's no water cooling option. Let's be realistic.
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IVEST said:
A very busy Radeon R9 290X is likely to "fry the finish" and damage or kill a puny SFF power supply.
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As an example, an i7 4770K and a 290X work just fine with Silverstone's 450W sfx. The reason for the high wattage recommendation (I don't think they actually say it's a requirement since that would only be extra hilarious) is that the graphics card manufacturer(s) can't know if you'll be running a 220W AMD cpu, lots of hard drives and overclock everything. That, and the fact that some psu manufacturers lie about the specifications, leads to the extremely high wattage recommendations. To be extremely safe. Laughably safe.

Silverstone's new 600W sfx can handle any existing graphics card (also overclocked) that will fit in this case. With ease. Edit: ok, the 7990 may be a stretch if overclocked (but it's 12" long and won't fit if ODD has to remain an option for this case).

The heat from a 290X is exhausted just fine with a blower-type cooler. Not a problem.
 
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