LG's curved monitor - analysis of curvature

So you already know from school that concave-curved surfaces can cover higher angle than flat surfaces of the same length.

With computer displays, higher viewing angle contributes to immersion.

LG's new display is curved [mostly] because of this. But just how curved is it?



Good step in the right direction but not enough to really matter, I'm afraid.

You're talking about this like everyone will be sitting dead center in the middle of their monitors.

LG (and other panel manufacturers) have to consider variable viewing angles on top of this, not to mention what that might do to things like ergonomics and reading use. I'm not an expert on this as much as you, but it seems like your example is ideal only for movie viewing and gaming, and specifically only from that exact point...

Other than viewing angles, doesn't viewing distance also come into play here?

I know some folks sit quite far away from their desktop monitors, but my eyesight sucks, so I generally sit pretty damn close. Maybe they felt the UC97 curvature had to be a happy medium to also account for this?

A sharply curved display, like in your example would definitely be more immersive given a single viewer sitting in the sweet spot.. but perhaps, that's not what they were going for, and wanted something that was a slight improvement for 1 viewer, but not uncomfortable to view for 2 people?

AFD said:

A sharply curved display, like in your example would definitely be more immersive given a single viewer sitting in the sweet spot.. but perhaps, that's not what they were going for, and wanted something that was a slight improvement for 1 viewer, but not uncomfortable to view for 2 people?

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Fair point, but it doesn't hold water. I just calculated for a scenario where two users are sharing a display (watching a Youtube video, playing split-screen or whatever).

Results? With LG's implementation of curvature, HFOV gain is 2.1%.
With "ideal" version, it is 7.7%.

Wait, how is it you tested this scenario? On paper or in a program? Or are you actually testing against real world results?

Xinmosni said:

Wait, how is it you tested this scenario? On paper or in a program? Or are you actually testing against real world results?

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Math software. Even though comparing angles is fairly simple math which could be done on paper easily.

On paper it looks right but you would still need to test the mathematics through actual in world testing. Some projector users are already doing this. WSGF

People who want curved displays will change their minds once they realize the IPS glow is obviously more pronounced by the 'off angle,' curved corners, plus wide gamut IPS glow more than standard gamut panels.

Skott said:

On paper it looks right but you would still need to test the mathematics through actual in world testing. Some projector users are already doing this. WSGF

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Image distortion is of course the difference between the angle at which a point on display should be seen (0° for orthographic elements and images, higher for rectilinear) and the actual angle at which we're looking at it. Overall distortion can be calculated for any surface (flat, cylindrical, spherical) and any viewing position relative to that surface.

From what I've seen so far, off-axis viewing scenarios wouldn't introduce some crazy unseen distortions on curved monitors.

NCX said:

People who want curved displays will change their minds once they realize the IPS glow is obviously more pronounced by the 'off angle,' curved corners

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How would I be in a position to look at the corners of a curved display at an extreme angle?

NCX said:

People who want curved displays will change their minds once they realize the IPS glow is obviously more pronounced by the 'off angle,' curved corners, plus wide gamut IPS glow more than standard gamut panels.

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The UC97 isn't wide-gamut, correct?

And shouldn't having the outer edges curved towards the viewer actually help to minimize the appearance of corner IPS glow (with one viewer sitting centered)?

After viewing the new 4k curved Samsung TV's at Best Buy, I am a convert. I immediately noticed the depth sensation increase, and even more importantly the reflection/glare reduction aspect. They had a curved display right on top of a flat 4K, both with the same AR properties (semi-gloss), and the reflection of identical background lighting was far greater on the flat screen.

The curve on this LG monitor does indeed appear to be pretty weak. Although I think A3 in the diagram may be too limiting, as you'd have to be in a very small point in space laterally and longitudinally to the display. I learned that during my Fresnel lens experiment with 3x FW900's, having to have your eyes positioned in a relatively small point in space is not practical at all.

People move about, shift in their chairs, like to change distances to the display to prevent eye fatigue, etc etc. Although I do think the reasoning of "multiple users" viewing the same screen is a very small proportion of computer display usage. Ultimately, I'd like to see a display right at about half way between "B" and "A3". That would give a nice depth of the display, yet not limit position to a high degree. Although for me the point is a bit moot for now, as 60 Hz IPS display motion clarity would immediately rule out such a display.

I may be silly, but I like my straight lines to be straight.

Curved displays can enhance the viewer’s immersive experience with its curved form. The screen "wraps around the viewer" and so there's a comfortable feeling of stability and immersion. LG explains that the curved screen has a curved trajectory similar to a person’s ‘Horopter Line’ allowing the maintenance of a constant focus.

Also, the distance to the viewer is constant (unlike a flat display in which the middle is closer than the edges). This means that in a flat display there's a subtle image and color distortion which does not happen in a curved panel. The larger the flat screen and the closer the distance from the screen, the distortion becomes more noticeable.

Another advantage is that a curved screen feels larger and brighter compared to a flat display. This, again, enhances the viewing experience. LG says that a viewer will feel that the size of a curved display screen is larger than its actual size. Curved displays also feel brighter because the light coming from the screen is focused on the center of the screen.

Another, more noticeable advantage to a curved television screen is its ability to cut down on ambient light reflections. Not only does it mitigate reflections from side lighting—think the lamp on your media center—by reducing the screen's open angle, it also reflects what light does strike the screen away from the viewer.

With less light washing out the on-screen picture, blacks appear blacker while contrast and color accuracy improves.

For a bigger screen, buy a bigger TV ( cheaper than curved at that). There are no color or any other distortions in quality flat TVs. Curved brings negatives - distorted geometry and just one viable viewer/seating position, and only one positive - glare reduction (which is not a problem in light controled environments). IMO it is just a fad that sounds cool, aimed to sell more TVs.

From reading about this a year ago and rather technical articles this is like 3D TV, a marketing gimmick but not beneficial for real world use for TV's.

It's a win as long as it significantly reduces the IPS glow for a person sitting at 60cm. From experience, since moving my head (and thus the effective viewing angle of the far edge) significantly reduces IPS glow, I'd expect this to achieve at least a similar result without having to move my head. How well it does shall be seen. I don't know if it's gonna be in my price range though. I'm hoping for Costco to pick it up

There are better and cheaper ways to remove IPS glow. But VA panels are better anyway for the use these monitors aim for.

Meeho said:

There are no color or any other distortions in quality flat TVs.

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Nope, flat screen's have ton's of problems. Objects appear larger in the center of the screen versus the outer portions, your eyes constantly have to adjust focus from the center of the screen to the outer areas due to uneven focal distance, the viewing angles of the outer portions of the screen are worsened due to light being emitted straight out into the room instead of at the viewers eyes. You can't sit really close to a flat screen for an immersive experience, hence why Imax was created. Ever sit really close to a flat screen Cinema? Horrible experience. And there's more glare.

Curved:
1. Improves immersion
By curving the image slightly forward, the world you’re watching seems to ‘wrap around’ you more, entering slightly more into your peripheral vision and thus drawing you deeper into the world you’re watching.

2. The sense of 'depth' is enhanced
This is because curving the edges of the image towards the viewer enhances the visual perception of depth in what you’re watching.

3. You get a wider field of view
Bending the edges of the image towards you makes you feel as if you’re seeing a wider image than you get with a flat screen. Draw lines from your head position to the edges of, say, a 65-inch flat TV and then draw lines from your head position past the edges of a 65-inch curved TV to the same plane you’d have been watching the flat screen in, and the curved screen’s image appears to stretch further across the wall than the flat TV image, despite the screen sizes involved being ostensibly the same.

4. Contrast is better than 'non-curved' screens
Curved screens focus the light coming from the screen more directly at your eyes – in much the same way satellite dishes strengthen signals by focussing them onto an LNB – and so can deliver between 1.5x and 1.8x higher contrast than flat screens.

5. Uniform viewing distance
Curved TVs track the rounded shape of our eyes better, and thus deliver a more focused, comfortable image than flat screens.

Samsung has taken this argument so seriously that it’s set its curvature level at that of a 4200mm-radius circle, appropriate to the current average TV viewing distance of 3.2m (based on studies conducted in America and Germany).

6. You get a wider effective viewing angle
LCD TVs have a directionality problem, whereby the way they push light through their LCD arrays means that viewing from down an LCD TV’s sides means you usually have to put up with quite drastic reductions in color saturation and contrast.

With curved screens, though, the way the curve adjusts the direction of the emitted light means that contrast and color retain almost perfect accuracy.

As a matter of fact, the only thing flat screens are better at is price, and very slightly better geometry. Curved screens do everything else better.

Vega is right. And geometry problems are non-existent. Anything you can experience with flat display, you can experience with cylindrical display. You want straight lines? No problem. You can display perfectly straight lines on cylindrical displays.

Using flat surfaces to cover medium or high field of view is terribly wasteful because you're seeing parts of display at an angle. Seeing something at an angle means apparent size of that portion will be reduced. A piece of paper rotated 45° relative to the viewer will appear much smaller than that same piece of paper viewed at 0°.

The most important difference between flat and cylindrical displays is this: buying 20% larger flat display will not give you 20% more of HFOV. Buying 20% larger cylindrical display will give you exactly 20% more of HFOV.

Meeho said:

For a bigger screen, buy a bigger TV

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pcjunkie said:

From reading about this a year ago and rather technical articles this is like 3D TV, a marketing gimmick but not beneficial for real world use for TV's.

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Aren't we talking about curved close-viewing PC monitors, not TVs?

And yes, from a distance with multiple viewers, curved panel TVs might be unnecessary.. but a curved PC display when viewed at a much closer distance by one viewer should bring improvements *especially for 21:9 ultrawide PC displays of this size*, which is what we're discussing, right?

Vega said:

Nope, flat screen's have ton's of problems. Objects appear larger in the center of the screen versus the outer portions, your eyes constantly have to adjust focus from the center of the screen to the outer areas due to uneven focal distance, the viewing angles of the outer portions of the screen are worsened due to light being emitted straight out into the room instead of at the viewers eyes. You can't sit really close to a flat screen for an immersive experience, hence why Imax was created. Ever sit really close to a flat screen Cinema? Horrible experience. And there's more glare.

Click to expand...

Our eyes have to constantly adjust focus and that is a good thing and, if anything, an argument against curved screens. Glare is a benefit in non controlled environments, I agree. The size, distance and curvature of cinema screens cannot be compared to the scale of monitors and living room TVs, nor their use.

Curved:
1. Improves immersion
By curving the image slightly forward, the world you’re watching seems to ‘wrap around’ you more, entering slightly more into your peripheral vision and thus drawing you deeper into the world you’re watching.

Click to expand...

Compared to a flat screen with comparable FOV, the difference is minimal if not non existent on the computer monitor scale. Theaters are different.

2. The sense of 'depth' is enhanced
This is because curving the edges of the image towards the viewer enhances the visual perception of depth in what you’re watching.

Click to expand...

This could be true, but reminds me of the same kind of things that were said about 3D screens, which are a known gimmick. Anyway, so would better contrast, to a higher degree.

3. You get a wider field of view
Bending the edges of the image towards you makes you feel as if you’re seeing a wider image than you get with a flat screen. Draw lines from your head position to the edges of, say, a 65-inch flat TV and then draw lines from your head position past the edges of a 65-inch curved TV to the same plane you’d have been watching the flat screen in, and the curved screen’s image appears to stretch further across the wall than the flat TV image, despite the screen sizes involved being ostensibly the same.

Click to expand...

Hence, buy a slightly bigger flat screen for the same effect.

4. Contrast is better than 'non-curved' screens
Curved screens focus the light coming from the screen more directly at your eyes – in much the same way satellite dishes strengthen signals by focussing them onto an LNB – and so can deliver between 1.5x and 1.8x higher contrast than flat screens.

Click to expand...

In reality, too small of a difference on the scale we're discussing here to be of any issue. Those numbers you've pulled are theoretical and only for flawed technologies.

5. Uniform viewing distance
Curved TVs track the rounded shape of our eyes better, and thus deliver a more focused, comfortable image than flat screens.

Click to expand...

This is marketing brochure speak and makes no sense.

Samsung has taken this argument so seriously that it’s set its curvature level at that of a 4200mm-radius circle, appropriate to the current average TV viewing distance of 3.2m (based on studies conducted in America and Germany).

Click to expand...

The world isn't built to any curvature around our eyes, which makes no sense anyway.

6. You get a wider effective viewing angle
LCD TVs have a directionality problem, whereby the way they push light through their LCD arrays means that viewing from down an LCD TV’s sides means you usually have to put up with quite drastic reductions in color saturation and contrast.

With curved screens, though, the way the curve adjusts the direction of the emitted light means that contrast and color retain almost perfect accuracy.

Click to expand...

LCDs are such a crap technology that the above is the least of their problems and nothing a slight curvature can help with in a perceivable way.

As a matter of fact, the only thing flat screens are better at is price, and very slightly better geometry. Curved screens do everything else better.

Click to expand...

I would say price, geometry and viewer position tolerance, without any issues curved ones introduce.

Randomoneh said:

Vega is right. And geometry problems are non-existent. Anything you can experience with flat display, you can experience with cylindrical display. You want straight lines? No problem. You can display perfectly straight lines on cylindrical displays.

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No, you can't without compensating for it, which is impossible to do correctly as it depends on constantly changing factors.

Using flat surfaces to cover medium or high field of view is terribly wasteful because you're seeing parts of display at an angle. Seeing something at an angle means apparent size of that portion will be reduced. A piece of paper rotated 45° relative to the viewer will appear much smaller than that same piece of paper viewed at 0°.

Click to expand...

Yes, a whole 2.6% currently and 13.2% at theoretical, non practical best. Terribly wasteful!

The most important difference between flat and cylindrical displays is this: buying 20% larger flat display will not give you 20% more of HFOV. Buying 20% larger cylindrical display will give you exactly 20% more of HFOV.

Click to expand...

Yes, it will "only" give you, what, 19.4% larger FOV? Hardly deserving to be red, bold and underlined.

AFD said:

Aren't we talking about curved close-viewing PC monitors, not TVs?

And yes, from a distance with multiple viewers, curved panel TVs might be unnecessary.. but a curved PC display when viewed at a much closer distance by one viewer should bring improvements *especially for 21:9 ultrawide PC displays of this size*, which is what we're discussing, right?

Click to expand...

Most of it applies to both.

I think this will be the same a nice option to have and there is definitely a market for it. But I don't believe this will completely change the flat panel standard for a few reasons.

1. Not everyone is comfortable being surrounded and completely immersed. This is dependant on how powerful the effect is of course, but I tried 3d movies and triple monitor setups and I could not get comfortable with either. Having one 24-27" monitor is what I prefer for my home setup. I don't like having to turn my head while gaming or watching a movie.

2. Curved displays are going to take up more space. If you want your tv to sit flush with the wall to get a minimalistic setup that will not happen with a curved screen.

That said I think the idea is really cool and I welcome it with open arms and I will surely consider getting one if the effect is more on the sublime level.