It's official, Nvidia will not support Mantle

PRIME1 said:
Where did MS or Khronos say that?
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"While Huddy didn't say how closely OpenGL Next might mirror Mantle, he repeated the contention that Mantle shaped DirectX 12's development. We expressed some doubts about that contention when we addressed it earlier this year, but Huddy was adamant. Development on DirectX 12's new features may have begun before Mantle, he said, but the "real impetus" for DX12's high-throughput layer came from the AMD API."

Your AMD hate is really getting old. At least pretend to not be completely biased.
 
stealthy123 said:
"While Huddy didn't say how closely OpenGL Next might mirror Mantle, he repeated the contention that Mantle shaped DirectX 12's development. We expressed some doubts about that contention when we addressed it earlier this year, but Huddy was adamant. Development on DirectX 12's new features may have begun before Mantle, he said, but the "real impetus" for DX12's high-throughput layer came from the AMD API."

Your AMD hate is really getting old. At least pretend to not be completely biased.
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Where did MS or Khronos say that?
 
stealthy123 said:
"While Huddy didn't say how closely OpenGL Next might mirror Mantle, he repeated the contention that Mantle shaped DirectX 12's development. We expressed some doubts about that contention when we addressed it earlier this year, but Huddy was adamant. Development on DirectX 12's new features may have begun before Mantle, he said, but the "real impetus" for DX12's high-throughput layer came from the AMD API."

Your AMD hate is really getting old. At least pretend to not be completely biased.
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so pretty much what i said
DX12 has been in the works for much longer and MS thought hey thats kinda neat lets add that to DX12 and im 100% sure its not coping the Mantle code

that is NOT copying Mantle thats add on useful thing from it to an already mostly ready to go API

its like saying OpenGL copys Nvidias APIs every time they add an NV extension
 
Elios said:
DX12 has likely been in the works for a wile
MS is not fast to put out new specs for DX why put out a new DX when so many games are STILL using DX9 and 10
better to wait for at DX11 to take off a bit
also likely they planed it out for what ever the next OS after 8 would be
so no point in talking about it till they where close to the ready with the OS it would be part of

Mantle is hardly ready for any thing and even AMD has admitted its only a beta

DX12 will be NOTHING close the Mantle in any way as MS has said that DX11 hardware should be able to run DX12
running Mantle on any thing but GCN is imposable or AMD would of done it with there own cards by now
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Put out new specs for DX12 that is the difference?
With this masterpiece you prove yet again that you have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about.
DX11 hardware is such a broad statement. But once DX12 comes out you will get a nice message on the Nvidia forums on how it does not support card X or Y and there are not so much doing anything about it.

Mantle is made so it could perform very well the reason why drivers are so bloated and make life hard for developers because of the legacy support, fine for the old and crippled method of driver development but not good when you need to optimize performance.

Mantle is still working on frostbite 3 engine and Nitrous engine. In retail products. It is real .....
 
It's official, NVidia does what only favors NVIDIA, what a shock! What do you mean I cannot run an ATI graphics card on an Nforce 3 agp setup with dual core AMD processor but an NVIDIA card will work in Vista? :rolleyes: They could have fixed that but gave a big FU instead. Something I will never forget with their constant anti competitive practices.

Edit: personal preference. I like the cards but, I prefer AMD more since they have not tried to screw me over yet. The only exception I have made is on this Surface 2 I own.
 
Araxie said:
gtx 480 was able to run SLI without bridge with drivers 258.96 any newer driver after that forced to use the bridge.. and was well explained by NVIDIA. actual cards like 290 and 290X can saturate PCI-Ex16 3.0 in Crossfire.. so for the upcoming cards that could be a problem.. the AMD eyefinity wasn't a joke AMD was focused in eyefinity since 2009, but Nvidia was focused with 3Dvision and 3D gaming since 2008, of course when you want to promote a technology you have to keep the focus in that for long time and if can i remember well, AMD enabled 3d gaming in 2011? 2012? i cant remember correctly and still its a very inconsistent and few brands are really certified AMD 3D and are very limited, so can we say AMD copied Nvidia? meh.. they have to go towards consumers want, nvidia had almost a monopoly with he 3dvision technology and AMD wanted to do the same, what can do amd? add support for that.. same with nvidia..
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The only practical use of the 3d was to get 120Hz monitors out leading to lightboost. I haven't personally seen gsync but it appears promising.
 
Mantle will be upgraded more often than all the other APIs. DX12 and OpenGL will lay for years untouched like they have been for years at a time while Mantle will get constant upgrades every so often with driver releases. By the time DX12 comes out the performance of Mantle will still be higher. All these other APIs may have the idea of Mantle but Mantle will still be ahead of the game in the end. Forefront of them all. Leading the pack. Mantle is also compatible with all the supported Windows. 7 and up. No lock out like DX12. OpenGL never gets used either. Mantle has gotten more support than OpenGL has ever gotten in the past 10 years. Last biggest game engine i think that was made on OpenGL was Quake3 and Doom3. Mantle has a lot of games under radar coming up. I'm sure it will perform better than DX12. Maybe way better lol. Have to see what happens though.
 
Conker said:
Mantle will be upgraded more often than all the other APIs. DX12 and OpenGL will lay for years untouched like they have been for years at a time while Mantle will get constant upgrades every so often with driver releases.
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Let me introduce you to the real world: OpenGL is updated with a new release every summer, and vendors are free to release their own extensions whenever they want.

By the time DX12 comes out the performance of Mantle will still be higher.
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But first Mantle will have to beat DX11 performance.

OpenGL never gets used either. Mantle has gotten more support than OpenGL has ever gotten in the past 10 years.
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There are over 1100 OpenGL games on Steam right now. How many are there for Mantle?
 
The longest stretch of time between OpenGL updates was 34 months. But that was also fifteen years ago, so I don't think "lays for years untouched" is really a valid criticism of the API. OpenGL's been receiving yearly updates since 2009, and extensions are made available asynchronously and whenever vendors want to ship them.

The Mac said:
pretty sure he means AAA titles, dont be pedantic.
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Is "AAA-ness" consequential?
 
yes.

Most people only buy AAA.

thats why AAA are AAA, and indies are indies.
 
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"AAA" and "AA" refer to the game's budget, not its sales. Indies are labelled as such not because they don't sell in volume (has DayZ not been a Steam top seller since its release?), but because they're developed independently of large publishers.

Do you have a better understanding of the terminology now?
 
correct, AAA titles have masive budgets, AND get massive sales.

Except when they flop of course.

But the expectation is sales consummate with budget. Otherwise they wouldnt spend the money.

As i said, most people only buy AAA.
 
Twelve of the top twenty Steam games being played right now, according to Valve's own data, are independent titles (and one is a mod), so your claim is more than slightly dubious.

The Mantle-powered Thief does not even make the top 100.
 
wonderfield said:
The longest stretch of time between OpenGL updates was 34 months. But that was also fifteen years ago, so I don't think "lays for years untouched" is really a valid criticism of the API. OpenGL's been receiving yearly updates since 2009, and extensions are made available asynchronously and whenever vendors want to ship them.


Is "AAA-ness" consequential?
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But if the base is shit, you're still going to get shit. So even if it does get updated every year, it still has a shit base. That is why OpenGL next will start from scratch, to cut the shit out.
 
The Mac said:
I stand by my assertion.
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Standing? Doubtful.

trick0502 said:
But if the base is shit, you're still going to get shit. So even if it does get updated every year, it still has a shit base. That is why OpenGL next will start from scratch, to cut the shit out.
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OGL Next is starting from scratch because it's a different API utilizing a different approach (explicit management of resources, etc.), not because the current approach is "shit". The current approach is based on high-level abstractions; the OGL Next approach is based on lower-level abstraction. The two approaches can — and should — co-exist.

Suffice it to say that you can't build sets of low-level abstractions atop high-level abstractions. To attempt to do so is entirely nonsensical.
 
wonderfield said:
Standing? Doubtful.


OGL Next is starting from scratch because it's a different API utilizing a different approach (explicit management of resources, etc.), not because the current approach is "shit". The current approach is based on high-level abstractions; the OGL Next approach is based on lower-level abstraction. The two approaches can — and should — co-exist.

Suffice it to say that you can't build sets of low-level abstractions atop high-level abstractions. To attempt to do so is entirely nonsensical.
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Really?

https://www.google.com/#q=developers+complain+about+opengl&spell=1
 
The Mac said:
believe what you will.

I stand by my assertion.
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Sooooo, data from the leading PC sales platform means nothing to you?

We ARE talking PC here. Consoles have their own APIs (Xbone has DirectX™®© 11.0™®©, which I'm sure is EXACTLY IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY CONCEIVABLE to the PC API we've been using for years...)

So if you want to throw out 'but consoles' then you are in the wrong thread. Nvidia is not in consoles. Mantle is not in consoles. OGL is not in consoles.
 
KazeoHin said:
Sooooo, data from the leading PC sales platform means nothing to you?

We ARE talking PC here. Consoles have their own APIs (Xbone has DirectX™®© 11.0™®©, which I'm sure is EXACTLY IDENTICAL IN EVERY WAY CONCEIVABLE to the PC API we've been using for years...)

So if you want to throw out 'but consoles' then you are in the wrong thread. Nvidia is not in consoles. Mantle is not in consoles. OGL is not in consoles.
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Origin, Uplay, GOG, etc...

Steam doesnt have a single EA game released within the last year, nor will it have a single one in the future.

So yeah, the leading STEAM platform means nothing to me.
 
The Mac said:
Origin, Uplay, GOG, etc...

Steam doesnt have a single EA game released within the last year, nor will it have a single one in the future.

So yeah, the leading STEAM platform means nothing to me.
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Do you have metrics saying that Origin, Uplay, GoG, and any others have more market share COMBINED? I'd say it's a stretch. I repaired, designed and built gaming PCs for years, and Steam was the dominant platform by an almost humorous percentage. I would venture a guess that steam has a 99.X percent share. Things MAY have changed in the 6 months I've been gone from that industry, but hey, I doubt it.
 
chances of some one having Origin/Uplay/GoG and not having Steam is slim
so much so that the steam survey is a good cross section of what hardware is out in the wild
sucks that Blizz doesnt release there information as i bet it would jive with Steam
i CAN see some one having a Blizz game and not Steam
 
KazeoHin said:
Do you have metrics saying that Origin, Uplay, GoG, and any others have more market share COMBINED? I'd say it's a stretch. I repaired, designed and built gaming PCs for years, and Steam was the dominant platform by an almost humorous percentage. I would venture a guess that steam has a 99.X percent share. Things MAY have changed in the 6 months I've been gone from that industry, but hey, I doubt it.
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Kinda humorous to me. I have never, once, in the past 5 years ever seen anyone profess their love for EA. Which is interesting since EA is one of the most hated publishers on the planet and for good reason (destroying Bioware stands out in my mind). Anyway, today that has changed. First time for everything I guess.

The entire reason EA isn't on steam is because Steam wouldn't play along with EA's login specific microtransaction system. EA wanted to nickel and dime customers so they created origin as a result. To continue nickel and diming customers.
 
The Mac said:
Origin, Uplay, GOG, etc...

Steam doesnt have a single EA game released within the last year, nor will it have a single one in the future.
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Care to venture a guess as to how many PC games EA released in the last year?

Five.

Not, you know, five hundred (which is conveniently about how many were released on Steam between January and April alone). Five. And all those Ubisoft games not making it to Steam? That's zero.
 
wonderfield said:
Care to venture a guess as to how many PC games EA released in the last year?

Five.

Not, you know, five hundred (which is conveniently about how many were released on Steam between January and April alone). Five. And all those Ubisoft games not making it to Steam? That's zero.
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But hey, those FIVE games could turn this whole damn thing on its head! Everyone knows BF4 was a resounding success!



















/sarcasm.
 
KazeoHin said:
Do you have metrics saying that Origin, Uplay, GoG, and any others have more market share COMBINED? I'd say it's a stretch. I repaired, designed and built gaming PCs for years, and Steam was the dominant platform by an almost humorous percentage. I would venture a guess that steam has a 99.X percent share. Things MAY have changed in the 6 months I've been gone from that industry, but hey, I doubt it.
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My observation is anectotal, myself and all my gamer friends buy 99% AAA titles. Sure, a couple indies here and there.

I believe myself and the gamers i know are indicitive of a cross section of gamers as they all have different careers and different interests.
 
wonderfield said:
Care to venture a guess as to how many PC games EA released in the last year?

Five.

Not, you know, five hundred (which is conveniently about how many were released on Steam between January and April alone). Five. And all those Ubisoft games not making it to Steam? That's zero.
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and all 5 of those games were AAA titles. Thats 100%

how many of the 500 on steam were? and how many of those that were AAA used OGL?

I stand by my assertion.

Thats not the point however, AAA titles for the most part dont use OGL, so myself, or anyone i know dont give a damn about it.

Indies use it beecause its free, obviously.
 
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perhaps that was over simplified.

there are many free resources for ogl, not so much for directx

indies tend to be scrappy, recourceful code monkies into open standards.

The big boys tend to be full of programmers, artists, and engineers looking for big money careers.
 
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The Mac said:
The big boys tend to be full programmers, artists, and engineers looking for big money careers.
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*The (cough) big boys tend to be full programmers who work 18 hour days on a game and when the product ships get laid off due to studio downsizing or publisher restructuring 2 months later"

FTFY

**I like both AAA's and indies. Some of the best games i've played were from independents, while some bad ones were AAA's. Also, high budget titles is a high risk venture these days because sales aren't guaranteed. That's why studio downsizing and job security has been prevalent in recent years, it's far from the ideal stable career you make it out to be. But as far as gaming goes, you'll find tons of good independent games and AAA games. And you'll find bad games among both as well. Just buy what you like.
 
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doesnt change their motivation.

I have several friends in the industry. They do bounce around a lot.

Shitty hours, but they get paid and can pad their resume.

Besides, thats not much unlike MANY industries.

lol
 
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