Microsoft Wants You to Forget Windows 8

canna said:
Win 7 includes media center. Win 8 does not. If I have to shell out for the OS and then they have the nerve to ask me to buy extra "OS features" on top of it, then they can pretty much go fucking pound sand with their "upgrade". I'll stick to what I have that works, TYVM.
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That wasn't he problem the problem is all the other <6% features that remain included that I pay for which I'll never use. Most of that shit is for enterprise management & networking which I don't need at home.
 
I ran Vista rc's on sub par computers without issue (Athlon XP's with 512mb of ram) .. ran it on beefier setups without issue ..

I like and currently run 8.1 without issue .. there was a frustrating learning curve at first, but now I prefer 8 over 7 ..

I don't use any of the "tiles" though

as stated .. Vista got a bum rap mostly due to companies not writing decent drivers for their hardware
 
Ur_Mom said:
Some people had zero issues with Vista, and I'm one of them. But, there were MANY that did. :/ And they were loud when they had problems, too.

Windows 8 problems. They are 99% around the Start Screen. Everything else seems to be extremely solid, fast, stable and just a good OS. Throw that Start Screen (and remove Aero Glass...) on there, and people start complaining.
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Yes, I agree completely. I prefer Win8 to Win7 categorically. Once you decide not to use "Metro" as your UI (which is easy to do, actually), and install a free utility like Classic Shell for its start menu, it operates just like Win7 with the explorer.exe UI (which is still intact in Win8, although it is buried under Metro in Win8's shipping condition.)

My point about what Microsoft needs to do vis-a-vis' the start menu is for the benefit of getting Win8 into Enterprise--without a start menu it's just not going there in any meaningful capacity.
 
There really wasn't anything wrong with Vista for the most part. Sure the HW mfgs were slow to get drivers out, but that wasn't MS's fault.

The big problem was with the OEMs selling low end computers with Vista. That is where the big dislike came from. That was in part MS's fault because they helped market those systems as "Vista capable" when they should have had a least 4GB of RAM and they were sold with 512MB or 1GB of RAM.

As for Windows 8, the lack of start menu is my only real complaint. I have been using a start menu addon almost since 8 came out. The rest of the OS is great.
 
Quix said:
Windows 8 isn't a bad OS. it's what it signifies that people hate. Microsoft's message for Windows 8 was: Let's kill all Windows app compatibility and switch to a new interface designed for tablets!

Which alienated their core fan base
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You want to know what alienated their fan base? When they started referring to PROGRAMS as APPS.

*right click* Open with...
(which APP would you like to run this)
(which you like to find an app at the microsoft store)

*sigh*

People use desktop computers because they want to use desktops, they don't want to feel like a tablet that you can't take anywhere but has a keyboard and mouse attached to it.
 
I think it's kind of tacky to compare Windows 8 or 8.1 to Windows ME or Vista.

Windows ME was so buggy as to be unusable, and Vista was a very slow OS with all kinds of driver issues.

Windows 8 actually works fine. I've used it everyday since it came out, and I can tell you it's not exceptionally buggy or a fundamentally unsound design. You may hate the interface, fine, but to lump it in with software that actually doesn't even work... that's ridiculous. You can't compare it to Windows ME.

It probably helps a little that I have a touchscreen desktop, a touchscreen laptop, and a Surface Pro, though. I didn't have to learn how Windows 8 works by fumbling around with the mouse and keyboard at first. I learned it via touch, and then figured out how to use the mouse and keyboard as a backup.
 
cyclone3d said:
There really wasn't anything wrong with Vista for the most part. Sure the HW mfgs were slow to get drivers out, but that wasn't MS's fault.
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Do we know this? At a minimum, MS could have done more to get those in line or delayed Vista. Part of the reason Windows 7 was a smooth rollout is that they had the drivers in line from Vista. It would have been better for MS in the long run if they figured something else out besides having to mint another OS.

Vista also has some 'we know better' details they made easier to get around in 7.
 
I'm getting pretty damn tired of people talking about how "every other MS OS is bad" thinking they are witty or something. That definitely didn't apply for their business operating systems, before the two were integrated. NT4 was revolutionary and Windows 2000 was great also. On the consumer side, people only mention "Me" which was trash, but of course never mention Win95, which was also revolutionary, and/or count Win98 and Win98se as one or two OSes depending on whatever suits their purposes.

Vista was only "bloated" from the perspective of someone not yet living in a world that needed anything more than 32-bit XP. Vista did a LOT that we mostly take for granted these days. Vista was the first Windows OS that made running the 64-bit version viable. It wasn't a compromise or a kludge vs the 32-bit version as was the case with XP, and you could still run 32-bit apps and games with essentially no performance decrease.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Some people had zero issues with Vista, and I'm one of them. But, there were MANY that did. :/ And they were loud when they had problems, too.

Windows 8 problems. They are 99% around the Start Screen. Everything else seems to be extremely solid, fast, stable and just a good OS. Throw that Start Screen (and remove Aero Glass...) on there, and people start complaining.
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I loved Vista 64, and had no problems with it.

I really didnt like 8. Start screen, metro, etc. 8.1 with a 3rd party app makes it decent.
 
It's not just the star menu that needs to be fix.

It's also the layout of the theme on Windows 8 that is terribly done.

Everything is flat with no shadow, I cannot tell which layer I am on anymore.
Way too flat....

This is why Apple tries to do it with transparency with flat design....
 
shansoft said:
It's not just the star menu that needs to be fix.

It's also the layout of the theme on Windows 8 that is terribly done.

Everything is flat with no shadow, I cannot tell which layer I am on anymore.
Way too flat....

This is why Apple tries to do it with transparency with flat design....
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I don't see a lot of complaints on this, but a few. I'm one of them. I know a lot of people here hate Aero Glass (or even the Luna theme in XP) and like the classic look. I don't. I like the eye candy of Windows 7, and can tell instantly that it's not on, and it bugs me.
 
WaltC said:
I thought the same thing, at first. I took advantage of the 4-month-long introductory sale Microsoft had for Win8--$39.99 got you Win8 Pro (and all subsequent updates, including 8.1) +Media center. I would have thought *everyone* would have jumped on that with both feet.

Even though I've got Media Center, though, I've also got VLC. Believe me, VLC is free, too, and when I watch movies on my computer I do not use Media Center anymore. VLC is demonstrably superior to Media Center. Even if you are still on Win7 I recommend it over Media Center.
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I have a cable card. I need Windows media center for cable TV. DVR from my TV carrier = $20/month when you add in the "DVR fee". Cable Card hooked up to my HTPC = $1.49/month. Guess which route I took, ha.

I already have windows 7 w/media center. No reason to pay to get windows 8 to lose media center.
 
I've gotten used to the start menu and navigation theme of 8 and if you're so included 2 minutes worth of configuring makes it almost identical to 7.

What I don't like is the stability. I have more damn problems with this OS. It's to the point that when I install a new program I set a restore point. When something happens that Windows 8 doesn't like it self destructs to the point that 7 hours on the phone with MS couldn't resolve the problem and I reloaded the OS twice. Lately it's been bluetooth disconnects. I really feel like we are beta testing 9 for them.
 
sfsuphysics said:
You want to know what alienated their fan base? When they started referring to PROGRAMS as APPS.

*right click* Open with...
(which APP would you like to run this)
(which you like to find an app at the microsoft store)

*sigh*

People use desktop computers because they want to use desktops, they don't want to feel like a tablet that you can't take anywhere but has a keyboard and mouse attached to it.
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Desktop use "widgets" lol
 
Savi said:
Using windows 8 atm WITH Stardocks Start8, if I did not have Start8 I would be back on Win7. When you do not have to deal with any of the Metro bull shit, it is a good OS, then again I have simple needs, Games, Watching Videos, Web Browsing, etc. I could see this being hell for IT guys in company's, though and new users. Still can not understand why Microsoft wanted a tablet GUI for a desktop:confused:
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You don't need Start8 with 8.1, but OK.
 
All this hate i really dont understand. There is nothing wrong with the OS.

I love using it.
 
Freebo said:
All this hate i really dont understand. There is nothing wrong with the OS.

I love using it.
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I agree. However, I guess I do not care anymore since, as long as the new OS next year makes us money, that is all matters.
 
Ur_Mom said:
Some people had zero issues with Vista, and I'm one of them. But, there were MANY that did. :/ And they were loud when they had problems, too.

Windows 8 problems. They are 99% around the Start Screen. Everything else seems to be extremely solid, fast, stable and just a good OS. Throw that Start Screen (and remove Aero Glass...) on there, and people start complaining.
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New is good and Different is bad. Which is why call of duty makes money new but not different.
 
I only had 3 problems with Vista.
1. Ungodly long shutdown times.
2. UAC prompting me if I sneezed.
3. Having to go to accessories and right clikcking the command prompt and selecting run as administrator every time in order to get it to run 90% of its functions instead of getting a fully functional command prompt by typing cmd in the search/ run box.
You got past those 3 things and it was pretty good.
 
There are two things that would get me excited about Windows 9.

1. File Explorer overhaul with file tagging.
2. Deeper OneDrive integration that lets you set any folder to be accessible online.
 
Ranulfo said:
Defending a "hybrid" OS by claiming a touch screen interface is the best for everyone, all the time. Just get used to it you old fogeys. Its better, because we say it is.
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He never did that but of course, bullshit and all.
 
Microsoft is always about the "next" thing.. sometimes this is done to keep your excitement up about a product but also sometimes done to make you forget how bad a product currently is. Microsoft through their proxy Paul Thurrott (he has on occasion said WE when referring to Microsoft) has many time on the "Windows Weekly" and "What The Tech" podcasts hyped a new MS product.. then admit later on that same product has problems.. but.. don't worry.. those problems will eventually be fixed.

XP is launched in October, 2001 but already by January, 2002, references to "Longhorn" are already being made. But not until 2003 did Microsoft itself start ramping up the rhetoric about "Longhorn".. Microsoft Longhorn to cost as much as man on moon project, Gates says

Vista arrives January, 2007 but by late 2007, Windows 7 is already being rumored on Engadget.

Windows 7 released in July, 2009 and Windows 8 is mentioned that November in a slide by MS.

Windows 8 comes out October, 2012 and by early 2013 Windows 9 talk springs up

Yes I get the concept of a company roadmap, but I have always had a feeling that Microsoft is always pushing that next thing, I guess, because that is where the money is.
 
SGA76 said:
I only had 3 problems with Vista.
1. Ungodly long shutdown times.
2. UAC prompting me if I sneezed.
3. Having to go to accessories and right clikcking the command prompt and selecting run as administrator every time in order to get it to run 90% of its functions instead of getting a fully functional command prompt by typing cmd in the search/ run box.
You got past those 3 things and it was pretty good.
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UAC prompting was 70% the programmers fault. Lazy programmers use to the unlimited power given to them in XP doing things that could be done without elevated authority, but not caring enough to program otherwise. By the time 7(Vista SP1 now with window snapping!) came out programmers wised up quite a bit.
 
Insula Gilliganis said:
Yes I get the concept of a company roadmap, but I have always had a feeling that Microsoft is always pushing that next thing, I guess, because that is where the money is.
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Love or hate Windows, the next version of Windows is always a big IT story. Windows 9 is going to be a huge IT story because of the widely perceived failure of Windows 8 and whether or not Windows 9 overcomes these failures. That's what this thread and the OP story is about.
 
pingjockey said:
Sometimes it takes a bad release to bring awesome features to a new release. For example, a ton of the virtual memory features in windows 7/8 wouldn't have been built without windows Vista.

The same thing can be said for Windows ME and features that were carried over to newer releases (system restore anyone??).

It is unfortunate though that it seems to be almost a Microsoft norm for just about every other release of windows to have issues....
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This is partially true but sort of misleading. The big changes in MS OS have always been in the OS that everyone hated. The more realistic interpretation is that MS like most companies making large software packages takes time to sort out the issues. The problem is the instead of sorting them out in the existing OS MS has always been driven by selling you the next OS. So they save the tweaks for the next OS as a motivation for you to upgrade. Then everyone thinks that OS is so amazing.

MS works like this. They have 2 teams, innovative / revolutionary team and then efficient team. The innovative team works on the big ideas and total changes. These ideas come out in the OS that people think are bad (ME / vista / 8) , then the efficient team comes in with the innovative ground work laid out for them already and tweaks it and fixes it up sorting out bugs, stream lining things that might not have worked as well. Does a light reskin and calls it a new OS.
 
I will also say that I believe MS knows this, and so they unfortunately believe that the poor performance of every other OS is inevitable. So rather than trying to make it better they make it worse. They take out features, they make unpopular changes. Then by the time you get to the "good" OS you are already used to it and say nothing about the missing feature or this or that you hated so much in the previous OS but it still the same in the new OS.

Its similar to many bimodal cycles. Like how managers press hard to bonus one month or year then give up the next. Because they are pumping then dumping to cheat an algorithm set up by execs. MS has seen this in their consumers, programmers etc...
 
SGA76 said:
I only had 3 problems with Vista...

2. UAC prompting me if I sneezed.
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There was a lot of FUD that went around in the Vista days about how UAC supposedly prompted for everything. I only get prompts when installing software or running certain system utilities that need admin privileges.

UAC is not simply a popup. It's a privilege elevation system, and in general I find it better than other solutions like sudo on Linux. In order for privilege elevation systems to work they need to prevent software from gaining any admin privileges without user input. Scaling back UAC to be 'less annoying' for Windows 7 in response to the FUD also had the side effect of making it less secure. One of the first things I do on Windows 7 is max out UAC and force it to always require a password via the group policy editor.
 
Reimu said:
Where are you, ktk, are yot going to answer VladDracule?

At any rate, going back to the topic. I want a better marriage of tile interface with the old start menu. Both have have place, and I would like to see Microsoft baking adaptability right in.

I would like to have the ability to map larger icons to keyboard shortcuts or function to apps that weren't made with touchscreen in mind actually, since touch is here to stay and I want to leverage legacy apps more effectively than just being able to use them!

Similarly, I would like a traditional window tab mode support being mandatory for newer apps. I don't want two separate applications if I can help it! I want one app that can change its interface depending on my current usage scenario! We have the hardware to do it, so there's no excuse to not follow through on it.
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Well at least i know that drac sucks not blood but m$'s man juices lol.

Good thing I never had win 8/8.1 on any of my personal systems ever.

Its like ACU, its crap, people say its crap but the US army keeps insisting it works until SHTF and then finally saying its crap/utter failure.

But then there are some who cant handle the truth... oh well, popcorn pls LOL!!
 
Blown 89 said:
I've gotten used to the start menu and navigation theme of 8 and if you're so included 2 minutes worth of configuring makes it almost identical to 7.

What I don't like is the stability. I have more damn problems with this OS. It's to the point that when I install a new program I set a restore point. When something happens that Windows 8 doesn't like it self destructs to the point that 7 hours on the phone with MS couldn't resolve the problem and I reloaded the OS twice. Lately it's been bluetooth disconnects. I really feel like we are beta testing 9 for them.
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Try setting up a new ADSL network OR creating a second admin account on win8/8.1

Nightmare compared to win7 .

people who complain only about the metro and UI are complete utter noobs imho, they cant / dont even go to the control panel to set up stuff...
 
ktk said:
Try setting up a new ADSL network OR creating a second admin account on win8/8.1

Nightmare compared to win7 .

people who complain only about the metro and UI are complete utter noobs imho, they cant / dont even go to the control panel to set up stuff...
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A second admin account isn't difficult at all in 8.1 unless you're tech illiterate in which case doesn't matter what OS you're using you're not going to make a second admin account.

Hell all i did was. Search accounts. Clicked on add, delete...user accounts. Added a local account. Hit edit on that account changed it to administrator. Easy as it was in XP or in 7, hell probably easier than XP as i could just search for the word accounts and it brought me to the setting.

Or did you mean another admin account linked to a second email? Didn't bother signing up for another email account just to check that.

As far as your ADSL comment, not even sure what the comment is regarding. Considering network creation and management is pretty independent of windows. When regarding connecting to an network ADSL issues with be a modem and router/switcher issue not a windows issue, even then you can still set up the PPPoE connection like always.
ktk said:
I still stand behind this as why win 8 sucks :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDpwKiRKmZc
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So the guy "used" the OS for 30 mins and gave up according to his own video. In other words he started up the OS and just spent 30 mins trying to get frustrated over things so he can make his video. His points are somewhat valid for windows 8, some are just flat out wrong when describing windows 8.1. It's not even his own argument the video is nothing but a regurgitation of mod mentality hate going on during windows 8 beta.

Anyways my most annoying problem on the consumer level with windows 8 is old hardware, old laptops which i shoved windows 8 on. With only windows 7 or Vista drivers to work with lead to instability, but that's not exactly Microsoft's fault.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Windows 8 is a different story. They've stripped out features from Windows Vista/7 and tacked on a phone interface that doesn't work very well on desktops. They make you pay extra for Media Center for no reason at all. They made it hibernate instead of shut down by default and call it a huge new feature. You're stuck with all the modern UI bloat that nobody writes apps for... Unless you're a niche user who benefits from the tablet features there's really no compelling reason to upgrade or buy a a new machine with Windows 8.
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Wasn't part of making the Media Center add on a pay feature driven by the EU lawsuits over anti-trust ... every feature that MS included for free (including the browser itself) has led to lawsuits in the EU ... pretty sure there was one on Media Center also accusing them of being anti-competitive for including it in the system for free
 
the_real_7 said:
Bring aero back and ill be happy
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I wont be, that shit was an ugly gimmick. I like Windows 8's plain interface, feels more responsive and to the point. They could shrink the borders a bit though, I think the top window border takes up slightly more space than it needs to.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
There was a lot of FUD that went around in the Vista days about how UAC supposedly prompted for everything. I only get prompts when installing software or running certain system utilities that need admin privileges.

UAC is not simply a popup. It's a privilege elevation system, and in general I find it better than other solutions like sudo on Linux. In order for privilege elevation systems to work they need to prevent software from gaining any admin privileges without user input. Scaling back UAC to be 'less annoying' for Windows 7 in response to the FUD also had the side effect of making it less secure. One of the first things I do on Windows 7 is max out UAC and force it to always require a password via the group policy editor.
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I USED Vista.
I had UAC prompt me when browser plugins tried to install, when I updated drivers, when I installed a game or any type of software...
Yeah, it is annoying when every other Microsoft OS you've used before doesn't do it (including NT and 2000).
You do get used to it after a while, and yes, the mild inconvenience is worth the added security, ESPECIALLY with family on the PCs clicking "OK" to everything and installing 70+ toolbars and any virus a plenty as the kids went straight to flash sites to play games, behind my back, which is why I pulled XP off fo their PCs.
Besides, I'm used to it from Linux (admin password for everything installed), my complaint was more like a "Coming from XP" type thing on my personal gaming rig.
Its something to adjust to.
Not something RADICAL to adjust to, just something to adjust to.
 
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