DC Vault 2

Gilthanis said:
Yeah....I haven't looked at the break down. Double check NickOfTime's breakdowns to get a feel for what gives the most bang. It isn't always the number of points for a single position but also how many we can take for the same resources. ;)

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040868438&postcount=2089
Click to expand...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/123993183/HardOCP-dcvault-summary.htm is more up to date :)

SOB and Muon dpad are our lowest points, But dpad needs wine installed to run on linux...

For SOB, my 2P [email protected] is probably getting 13.5T ppd (12wu, 1 wu per fpu, 2 threads per wu) and my i7-4770s (4 wu) ht off 7T ppd...
so your 4p 6282 should get at least 36T ppd and xeon 4650's 56T ppd...
So the 6282 and 5 xeons would bring SOB ppd up to 350T and change next overtake to 3d and 30/60/90d points to 174/226/243
 
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Cytrix over at PSP posted this in response to a thread I posted warning of potential removal.

PSP is now run mainly through primegrid and that meets all the rules of DC-Vault. The old teams/PRPnet is for people who cannot use BOINC, which is only a few (8 users-I last counted) for this project. As a result, the website etc is not updated very often.
Click to expand...

http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=19447
 
So, it has been raised in the past and is kinda being brought up again. However, I have only really read one team members standpoint on the issue in past discussions. I would like to know what the rest of the team thinks about commercial projects being included in the Vault. I know the term commercial is very broad in how one might interpret it, but without going into a very detailed over complicated definition, might we try to come up with some kind of civil discussion on the topic.

Some have argued that projects need to give results to the volunteers free of charge since they are the ones who crunched the data. Very few projects out there really do this. Yes there are some that make it available, but lets face it, most average people will never find it. Then you have projects that make the results easily available to you.

Others have argued that if the project is a for profit organization, it should not be included. I will point out that the DC-Vault as of 6/25/14 does not have any rules against these projects. In the past Aqua@home was part of the Vault and is still used as an example of commercial projects. Majestic-12 is currently looked upon as commercial by many and continues to be argued on whether the Vault should support it. I have read the old forum posts at DC-Vault and must say that past members were quick to judge and seem to have attacked other members hastily. But, I want the past to stay in the past. This isn't a discussion solely against one project. It is merely a generalized attitude of the team on whether they think it matters if a project is commercial or not. I'm not breaking it down to details on this or that research. Simply, black and white. Commercial and/or non-profit should be included in the DC-Vault.
 
The first thing you need to do is define Non Profit, while I do not really care to support private industry with my donation, (IMHO they can pay for their own) there remains a very fine line in what is considered to be Non Profit, If there are any betting people out there I would be willing to bet that any research being done out there has patents that have been filed on their results / findings. Most likely these patents have been filed by the institution or scientist or both. If you research F@H for example you will find patents filed by Stanford, Vijay Pande, and the different scientist that create the projects. each of these stand to profit from the research I have donated to, so what is non profit ?
 
Grandpa_01, that is exactly the underlying problem with the debate. Break it all down and it is all about profiteering in some manner. What it boils down to is how it reads on paper. Some people don't break it down like that though. For some, the non-for profit is a holy entity that does everything for the betterment of XYZ. That is why I didn't want to debate on the definition of commercial, but maybe should have clarified the opposing side as well. :)
 
Mr.Pernod said:
isn't the OGR project also a part of YoYo@home ?
Click to expand...

YoYo does have a wrapper for it. However, as far as the Vault goes, the work done at YoYo is kept separate than the work at the main project. That way there is no double dipping in regards to Vault points. If we want Vault points for OGR28, we have to run the OGR28 client. If you support the OGR28 project by running YoYo, we get Vault points for YoYo.
 
Gilthanis said:
http://stats.distributed.net/team/tmsummary.php?project_id=28&team=24958

As you can see, we have barely touched this project. If it is added to the Vault, it would be an easy point gain. We do not currently have our own guide for it if anyone is available and familiar with it. Just an FYI for those planning future contributions. :D
Click to expand...

Hmm....
http://faq.distributed.net/cache/1.html
http://www.distributed.net/Download_clients
Win 32-bit CPU
win 64-bit AMD
Linux CPU

Looks like the OpenCL and CUDA clients are for RC5-72 not OGR28
And looks like you just install the software and setup within... I might try test it tommorrow...
 
RC5-72 and OGR-27 used the same client when I was running them both a while back. I think this is one of those my lazy butt keeps promising to do a guide for, but can never find the time... But NickofTime has it about right - it's a simple install and run. Key things to remember are (or were, at least) that the client will want to run both RC5 and OGR, so if you only want to run one, you have to set that.

Oh, what the hell - here's a start of a walkthrough for the 64 bit version of Windows 7/8 as I reset it up:
  • The install is just a simple Open the Zip File and Copy to a Folder of Your Choosing...
  • Windows version still uses a DOS Shell style interface. Very old school fun!
  • Upon running dnetc.exe for the first time, you're presented with a screen with options 1-4, along with save & exit (0) and discard & exit (9) options. Choose (1) to start.
  • Choose (1) and enter the email you previously used on RC5 or OGR projects OR just enter the email you want them to send your password to if new.
  • Note per their page: "Finally, you will need to request that your stats password be sent to you by email to the address that you specified in your email client configuration, which is also the one under which you appear in the stats server. To do this, you must be on your (or one of your) personal stats page(s) and click on the link at the very bottom of that page that reads: "I cannot remember my password. Please email [insert your email address here]'s password.". Once you click on that link, you should receive an email with your stats password shortly thereafter."
  • Unfortunately, I seem to have forgotten my password, and it takes a while for them to send it when requested, so I'll update this part about joining our team tomorrow when I get it!
  • Hit (0) to return to the main menu
  • Next, hit (2) for Buffer and Buffer Update Options, then choose (9) for Load-work Precedence. There are good instructions here, but the TL;DR is to just add "=0" behind RC5-72 to just get OGR-28. Note that the client is design to get whatever the current flavor of OGR is, so you use "OGR-NG" instead of "OGR-28" when setting this up.
  • If you have a relatively unstable internet connection, you can use (13), Fetch Work Threshold to increase the number of buffered units, but they recommend leaving it at 0 for standard fixed internet connections. Just FYI.
  • Next, hit (3) for Performance Related Options, then hit (4) to set Priority Level. Here you can adjust the level from the default of 0, which will only run when all other processes are idle, up to 9, which will run this over all other processes - only do this on a dedicated machine! I have a borg somewhere currently only running RC5-72 using the command line version that I have no idea where it is, and I think it has this set to 1. That is obviously low enough to be unnoticeable yet return me some regular points. If running this concurrently on a BOINC machine, keep this low, if the primary project, bump this up as high as you can tolerate. As always, YMMV... EDIT: Just playing around with it, setting this to "2" on my i7 takes over all eight BOINC threads and runs dnetc.exe at 96-98%. Setting it to "1" allows BOINC to run each of the eight BOINC threads (POGS right now) at 4-6% while dnetc.exe takes about 60%. And setting it to "0" seems to be having the same effect as "1". So I have no idea how to get it to run at a lower Priority than BOINC right now...
  • Back on the Performance related options page, ignore (3) in Windows, as it's not yet implemented. Linux users, if you know otherwise, please let me know! But option (2) will allow you to set specific cores to run it on, or allow you to run it as a single threaded client. "-1" is the default and will auto-detect cores, "0" is for single threaded, and any number "1" or greater will be the number of cores it will attempt to use. I will confirm that in the future and update accordingly...
  • Okay, you should now have your email entered, the project selected, and your priority set. Get back to the main menu and hit (0) to save and exit. You are now done with setup, and can run the program without messing with any of that again!
  • Of course, if you want to redo any of that info, you can do it one of three ways - if not running, either restart with the flag "-config" to modify settings (the not so easy way), or just delete the dnetc.ini file in the project directory and restart to redo everything above (the hard way!). OR do it the easy way - if running, minimize the client, which should send it to your tray, then right click the cow icon and select "Configure" - this will pause the client and reopen the config area. Once you hit (0) to save and exit, the client will automatically apply the changes and continue!
  • Lastly, this uses TCP port 2064 by default to report/retrieve work, so if you have connectivity issues, check that on your firewall!

And for whatever I missed here, there is more info at http://faq.distributed.net/ for general info. The readme that comes with the zip AND the FAQ page both claim there is a first time setup tutorial at www_DOT_distributed_DOT_net/docs/tutor_clients.php, but that's a lie, so don't waste your time - try http://www.distributed.net/Docs_tutor_stats instead.

I promise I will finish this out with screenshots over the next few evenings, but there's a bit to get started, and I have to be up for work in six hours... Gilthanis, should I update this post with info, or would you prefer me to put this all in another location (or new thread?) and just link from here?
 
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Thank you Jathanis. I have added that as the current guide. Any new guide should probably be made in the Guides section for easier reference and organization. I appreciate the assist.
 
Since there had been little talk about it, I wanted to point out that Majestic-12 actually will pay out part of its earnings to contributors. The pay out is based on your contribution to the project and is based on a few things.

1. You must have ran the project for 90 days during the payout period. (I'm not sure how they handle momentary lapses and such)
2. You must have transmitted at least 20GB of data

The larger your contribution to the project, the larger the payouts are.

You can read the details of the creation of the Distributed Computing Partners LLC
http://www.majestic12.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3484

Signing up to receive payments is here: https://www.majestic12.co.uk/projects/mj12payreg.php

They report all payouts in the forums as well if you wish to read up on whom all have received money. Last payout info is here: http://www.majestic12.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5220
 
Back from a quick wedding trip out of state. Nobody has brought up focus for July. Any preferences out there? Project additions/removals discussion is still going on until the 7th.
 
Hey, I could always hit WCG for a month - new a few more hours here and there to work on some various badges... Including WUProp!

I really have no preferences - I've just been running whatever hits me, going for various personal milestones...


On a totally different note - anyone else here running Majestic-12 have issues with the client just shutting down/crashing ever so often? The longest I think I've seen it stay running was about 3-4 days, and most times I can't keep it going for 36 hours. It seems to die quickest anytime a game is being played on the system... Just to give you an idea, a full day of it running would give me 6-7 GB traffic, so now at the end of June, I should have almost 200 GB traffic for the month. I actually have 94 GB, which means it's been down or (like right now) running but waiting for work with that damn NoMoreURLsAvailable message it gets every time I start it up! Almost doesn't seem worth the trouble on this machine. Should I try it on my old XP machine instead of this Win 8 rig? Thoughts?
 
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I've had it a few times where MJ-12 just craps out after it's been running for some time, have you tried changing the setting to have the client automatically restart? It's under the general options, it's possible to have it auto restart every x hours. It might be worth setting that to 24 or 48 hours, see if it helps.
Do you find that it's using a ton of RAM before it dies, or not? I know some have seen memory leaks.
I don't have it installed on a WIndows box to comment on stability on different versions or vs. Linux so I can't help you there unfortunately.
 
I haven't looked that much into it, but I think the only time it crashed on me was when I pushed the system too hard. How many crawlers you got going?
 
I had 25 async workers/30 open buckets going as 15 workers wasn't really pushing my connection or CPU. I just lowered it to 20/25 to see if that makes a difference. And it never seems to be using much RAM, although I haven't seen it pinpointed right before a crash...

I am going to do the auto-restart and hope it will help. I'll report back in a few days.
 
Keep your eyes peeled. New project additions are on their way as Rusty gets the stats updates. Project removals should be on their way as well.
 
I have added the POGS 2 day challenge at BOINCStats to the challenges thread. It starts in about a week. Crunching@EVGA made that project their focus for the month of July as well. The only project I saw nominated for this month was WCG. I think it is a worthy candidate and always has a share of my resources. Anyone have preference on a GPU project to focus on?
 
Project additions are beginning to show up in the Vault. Stats have not yet been posted. Removals should follow shortly. We are still awaiting stat exports from MindModeling. NRG will be put on hold for a month or two to see if they honor their commitment of more work availability.
 
Gilthanis said:
Project additions are beginning to show up in the Vault. Stats have not yet been posted. Removals should follow shortly. We are still awaiting stat exports from MindModeling. NRG will be put on hold for a month or two to see if they honor their commitment of more work availability.
Click to expand...

Yep, I see the following so far...
Removed
LHC@Home - SixTrack project Rank 88,9820pts
The Lattice Project Rank 29 9742pts
ABC@Home Rank 51 9730pts
Prime Sierpinski Problem - PRP Rank 4 9000pts

Added
Constellation Rank 99?
PrimaBoinca Rank 133?
Numberfields Rank 25?

For July, I plan on continuing GIMPS for the GPU and mostly SOB for CPU :). I will probably switch CPU back to Muon dpad to avoid the rank loss ...
 
Mind Modeling is also being added, but we are trying to get the stats export going. I'm still waiting on hearing about OGR-28.
 
Gilthanis said:
Mind Modeling is also being added, but we are trying to get the stats export going. I'm still waiting on hearing about OGR-28.
Click to expand...

Constellation Rank 98 16pts per position
PrimaBoinca Rank 133 22.6pts per
Numberfields Rank 25 26pts per
 
These additions also dropped us to 8th place in the Vault. However, there is still more shifting as soon as the other two projects are added and the removals take place.
 
Gilthanis said:
These additions also dropped us to 8th place in the Vault. However, there is still more shifting as soon as the other two projects are added and the removals take place.
Click to expand...

Ouch :(

Guess I should quit playing around with FB for a while.
 
WARNING: SERIOUS MATHS AHEAD! :D

Okay, we want to get our places back, it's time to hit Primaboinca [H]ARD. Here's why we fell behind three other teams - We are:
1558 points behind AMD Users for 7th place
2820 points behind Rechenktaft for 6th place
2899 points behind SETI.Germany for 5th place

but, in Primaboinca, the stats look like:
[H] @ 7009 points
AMD Users @ 9876 points (2867 points ahead of us)
Rechenkraft @ 9406 points (2397 ahead)
SETI.Germany @ 9954 points (2945 ahead)

So based on NickOfTime's calcs of 22.6 points/place, we need to move up 69 places, from 133 to 64 to pass AMD Users. Getting to 40th place would give us about 2100 Vault points, put us at 9100 in Primaboinca - only about 718 Vault points away from jumping back in front of Rechenkraft and 797 from passing SETI.Germany.

Then based on those numbers, we currently stand in Constellation:
[H] @ 8440 points
AMD Users @ 9678 points (1238 points ahead of us)
Rechenkraft @ 9855 points (1415 ahead)
SETI.Germany @ 9968 points (1528 ahead)

So here, jumping from 98 to 40 would put us at 9368 in Constellation, gaining us 928 Vault points and getting us back to 5th place!

We're already at 9349 points in Numberfields, so our ability to make up room there is minimal. I say hit Primaboinca hard until we're up to at least 9100, then finish up with Constellation...

And those two pushes would shave over 3000 points off the 4,659 point leads The Knights Who Say Ni currently have on us for 4th place.
 
To add to my previous post:

In Primaboinca, we need about 60K ppd to break into the top 10 daily teams, about 80K ppd to put us in the top 5, and alomst 200K ppd to get to second behind BOINC Synergy (@ 370K average). We need to get to about 9M points to get into the top 40 spots, so for a month long push, we'd need to hit almost 300K ppd to hit the goal I mentioned above. Two months at 150K ppd as a team would do the same.

In Constellation, 10K ppd would move us into the top 10 teams for production, 20K ppd would put us top 5, and 50K ppd would put us second only behind DPC. A month of 50K ppd would gain us 1.5 million, and the #39 team right now is at 1.5M points TOTAL.

So depending on how much ppd per core we can generate on these two projects, we should easily gain back our 5th place standing by the time (American) football begins! :D

I'm going to start moving half my cores over to each of the two to get an idea of how my 16 threads will do...
 
Also, keep in mind that at first there will be a rush for advancement and the project may not be ready for that much overhead. It will eventually fade back to normal, but to begin with, don't be surprised to see work come up dry... Just a warning before people start complaining.

We also still need to add Mind Modeling and OGR-28 which are coming. Then there is still removal of Climate Prediction and RNA which are also going to happen. Stay tuned.

Grandpa, you don't need to stop focusing on FB just yet. We still have no points in Primaboinca at FB. Nor do we have points yet for Constellation. So, you can still double dip both competitions with those two projects. :D
 
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We can and will I am going to take a slightly different direction though, I am going for the quick points in Numberfields, I should be able to get us 400+ in around 20 days there if there supply of work holds out. And I see they did not remove PSP I do not know if brilong is still running them or not but he is just a few days away from another 333 points there. So that will get us to 7th in math in 20 days. Then I can switch to PSP since I have been accepted there or go to Primbotica depending on how things are going there. I can see lots of opportunity to get us back to where we were.

After all we are the [H] so lets get [H]ard. ;)
 
I'm not seeing PSP in my browser...

Numberfields seemd to pay out pretty good points per work unit last I ran it. But I couldn't tell you what those were at the time...
 
Early results on Primaboinca:

Work Units are fixed at 200 points each. My i7-950 @ 3.8 is doing them at a rate of about one per two hours. So based on that each thread can do 12 per day, so 12x8x200 = 19,200 ppd as a thoeretical max. Take off about 5%, and I'll be happy with 18K ppd. And my two C2Q machines together can usually do about 2/3 the ppd, I'd expect to be able to put up about 30K ppd.

So if that math is correct, I would outproduce all but eleven teams currently running it... Based on that, while Gilthanis is correct that other teams may jump on, Primaboinca has been running strong for years and I don't expect to see a huge upswing there. Constellation, OTOH, with those small overall team points, I could see as a potential target for many.

After all, when we really get rolling, there's only a handful of teams in the world that can match the [H]ard Commandos in the midst of a push! Now I only need to acquire moar cores!!!
 
Gilthanis said:
I'm not seeing PSP in my browser...

Numberfields seemd to pay out pretty good points per work unit last I ran it. But I couldn't tell you what those were at the time...
Click to expand...

You are right it is not there anymore, I thought I saw it this morning maybe I did not. :eek:
 
Ok, DC Vault Summary Updated, Looks like digiK-oz stats now has the points per position also :)

DC Vault Summary

Hmm, We are 2nd last in OGR28, When that is added to the vault we will be behind a few thousand points... Well, Unless the points are combined with ogr-27?
 
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Jathanis said:
RC5-72 and OGR-27 used the same client when I was running them both a while back. I think this is one of those my lazy butt keeps promising to do a guide for, but can never find the time... But NickofTime has it about right - it's a simple install and run. Key things to remember are (or were, at least) that the client will want to run both RC5 and OGR, so if you only want to run one, you have to set that.

Oh, what the hell - here's a start of a walkthrough for the 64 bit version of Windows 7/8 as I reset it up:
  • The install is just a simple Open the Zip File and Copy to a Folder of Your Choosing...
  • Windows version still uses a DOS Shell style interface. Very old school fun!
  • Upon running dnetc.exe for the first time, you're presented with a screen with options 1-4, along with save & exit (0) and discard & exit (9) options. Choose (1) to start.
  • Choose (1) and enter the email you previously used on RC5 or OGR projects OR just enter the email you want them to send your password to if new.
  • Note per their page: "Finally, you will need to request that your stats password be sent to you by email to the address that you specified in your email client configuration, which is also the one under which you appear in the stats server. To do this, you must be on your (or one of your) personal stats page(s) and click on the link at the very bottom of that page that reads: "I cannot remember my password. Please email [insert your email address here]'s password.". Once you click on that link, you should receive an email with your stats password shortly thereafter."
  • Unfortunately, I seem to have forgotten my password, and it takes a while for them to send it when requested, so I'll update this part about joining our team tomorrow when I get it!
  • Hit (0) to return to the main menu
  • Next, hit (2) for Buffer and Buffer Update Options, then choose (9) for Load-work Precedence. There are good instructions here, but the TL;DR is to just add "=0" behind RC5-72 to just get OGR-28. Note that the client is design to get whatever the current flavor of OGR is, so you use "OGR-NG" instead of "OGR-28" when setting this up.
  • If you have a relatively unstable internet connection, you can use (13), Fetch Work Threshold to increase the number of buffered units, but they recommend leaving it at 0 for standard fixed internet connections. Just FYI.
  • Next, hit (3) for Performance Related Options, then hit (4) to set Priority Level. Here you can adjust the level from the default of 0, which will only run when all other processes are idle, up to 9, which will run this over all other processes - only do this on a dedicated machine! I have a borg somewhere currently only running RC5-72 using the command line version that I have no idea where it is, and I think it has this set to 1. That is obviously low enough to be unnoticeable yet return me some regular points. If running this concurrently on a BOINC machine, keep this low, if the primary project, bump this up as high as you can tolerate. As always, YMMV... EDIT: Just playing around with it, setting this to "2" on my i7 takes over all eight BOINC threads and runs dnetc.exe at 96-98%. Setting it to "1" allows BOINC to run each of the eight BOINC threads (POGS right now) at 4-6% while dnetc.exe takes about 60%. And setting it to "0" seems to be having the same effect as "1". So I have no idea how to get it to run at a lower Priority than BOINC right now...
  • Back on the Performance related options page, ignore (3) in Windows, as it's not yet implemented. Linux users, if you know otherwise, please let me know! But option (2) will allow you to set specific cores to run it on, or allow you to run it as a single threaded client. "-1" is the default and will auto-detect cores, "0" is for single threaded, and any number "1" or greater will be the number of cores it will attempt to use. I will confirm that in the future and update accordingly...
  • Okay, you should now have your email entered, the project selected, and your priority set. Get back to the main menu and hit (0) to save and exit. You are now done with setup, and can run the program without messing with any of that again!
  • Of course, if you want to redo any of that info, you can do it one of three ways - if not running, either restart with the flag "-config" to modify settings (the not so easy way), or just delete the dnetc.ini file in the project directory and restart to redo everything above (the hard way!). OR do it the easy way - if running, minimize the client, which should send it to your tray, then right click the cow icon and select "Configure" - this will pause the client and reopen the config area. Once you hit (0) to save and exit, the client will automatically apply the changes and continue!
  • Lastly, this uses TCP port 2064 by default to report/retrieve work, so if you have connectivity issues, check that on your firewall!

And for whatever I missed here, there is more info at http://faq.distributed.net/ for general info. The readme that comes with the zip AND the FAQ page both claim there is a first time setup tutorial at www_DOT_distributed_DOT_net/docs/tutor_clients.php, but that's a lie, so don't waste your time - try http://www.distributed.net/Docs_tutor_stats instead.

I promise I will finish this out with screenshots over the next few evenings, but there's a bit to get started, and I have to be up for work in six hours... Gilthanis, should I update this post with info, or would you prefer me to put this all in another location (or new thread?) and just link from here?
Click to expand...

Some Linux Setup Instructions... (Runs in background with screen on all cores)
wget http://http.distributed.net/pub/dcti/current-client/dnetc-linux-amd64.tar.gz
tar -xvf dnetc-linux-amd64.tar.gz
cd dnetc520-linux-amd64/
./dnetc
Option 1 General Client Options
Option 1 - Set Email Address
Option 0 Return to Main Menu
Option 2 - Buffer Settings
Option 9 - Load-work precedence
Set OGR-NR,RC5-72=0​
Option 0 Return to Main Menu
Option 0 Save and Exit​
screen ./dnetc
Ctrl-A d (to detach and let run in background...)

Rough Performance Estimates..
i7 Sandy [email protected] - 3,834 Gnodes ppd per core
i7 [email protected] - 4,968 Gnodes ppd per core
opteron [email protected] - 2,950 Gnodes ppd per core
 
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NickOfTime, I have added this to the All Inclusive DC List. Thank you for the info.
 
Primaboinca Windows run times over the past 24 hours:

i7-950 @ 3.8: 15 work units, 9529 sec. high, 7475 sec. low, 8328 sec. average - 2h 19m, 16,600 ppd
C2Q 9550 @ 2.83: 18 work units, 9472 sec.high, 7612 sec. low, 8628 sec. average - 2h 24m, 8,010 ppd
C2Q 6600 @ 3.0: 7 work units, 14,262 sec. high, 10,326 sec. low, 13,124 sec. average - 3h 39m, 5,260 ppd

So total, that should put me at 29,870 ppd, right around what I thought... However, at first I thought this program just hated the older C2Q, then I noticed the CPU time instead of the run time, and discovered this:
6070 sec. low, 6300 sec. high, averaging 6227 sec. per WU, lower than either of the other two machines... I think that it trying to run GPUGrid and Moo! Wrapper on two separate cards in addition to these 4 WUs at a time is causing some issues. I may try to see if reducing the cores to 3 for CPU and 1 to support GPU improves this any...

EDIT/UPDATE: So to kick off this first day for Dookey and me on the project, Dookey's 82,400 points puts him as the #3 producer on the project today. Adding in less than 1/3 of my contribution today (so far), and we're #8 producing overall (and if they had the other 10K ppd from my forced update, we'd be #6!)

This has already moved us up 11 places, which should be good for almost 250 Vault points today! (Or in other words, 10 places from Dookey and 1 place from Gilthanis & me...:rolleyes:)
 
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