Surface Pro 3 (5/20/14)

Let's see it with the display's brightness turned all the way up and adaptive brightness turned off in a pitch black room with the "blank" screensaver running. I bet the backlight bleed is hideous.
 
This device is a lot more fun and versatile than I thought! Decided to try BlueStacks for the first time, didn't expect much but it blew me away with how well it runs Android apps like Clash of Clans with Google Play Games game save sync, Beach Blitz Buggy with tilt control, Autodesk Sketchbook Pro with pen and pressure support, etc. To think I was struggling with the decision to buy Galaxy Note Pro 12.2 or SP3 and losing Windows or Android app compatibility but now I get the best of both worlds, my tools like Wireshark and my investment in Android apps.

Android3_zps9f8acb19.png
 
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mi7chy said:
This device is a lot more fun and versatile than I thought! Decided to try BlueStacks for the first time, didn't expect much but it blew me away with how well it runs Android apps like Clash of Clans with Google Play Games game save sync, Beach Blitz Buggy with tilt control, Autodesk Sketchbook Pro with pen and pressure support, etc. To think I was struggling with the decision to buy Galaxy Note Pro 12.2 or SP3 and losing Windows or Android app compatibility but now I get the best of both worlds, my tools like Wireshark and my investment in Android apps.
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Cool. I've not used Bluestacks in a while. Some apps seemed to bog it down even on an i7 class desktop machine, but it may have improved. So what do you think about the keyboard and have you tried to use the pen in OneNote 2013 desktop? Thanks!
 
Megalith said:
Let's see it with the display's brightness turned all the way up and adaptive brightness turned off in a pitch black room with the "blank" screensaver running. I bet the backlight bleed is hideous.
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Good idea, because I often spend hours staring at my tablet's black screen in a pitch dark room. :rolleyes:
 
heatlesssun said:
Cool. I've not used Bluestacks in a while. Some apps seemed to bog it down even on an i7 class desktop machine, but it may have improved. So what do you think about the keyboard and have you tried to use the pen in OneNote 2013 desktop? Thanks!
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Coming from Thinkpad tactile keyboard which is probably the gold standard and typing 100+ wpm the Touch Cover keyboard is actually fine. I prefer to turn off keyboard back light with F1 key so it doesn't drain battery. The black color is actually dark grey and turns out looking nice along with the soft touch material. Was concerned it would look generic and was eyeing other colors but I'm happy with it.

Not a fan of touch pad and prefer Thinkpad Touchpoint nub but it's usable for the most part. Two finger scroll gesture works but if using on your lap it's more ergonomic to use index finger and thumb rather than index and middle and it would be nicer if it was taller. Touch and double-touch works. Palm rejection isn't 100%. Works if you press your palm but if you lightly brush your palm it moves the mouse cursor. Pad isn't too wide and isn't offset so you're not resting on it or constantly brushing it so it shouldn't be much of an issue. Left and right-click you probably want to use on a flat surface otherwise it can be tricky with the slight keyboard flex and play on your lap.

OneNote seems to work fine so far but this is my first exposure so I should probably review the manual. One click on the top pen button launches it, two clicks does a screen capture, you can insert photos, documents, write, front/back camera photo, etc. Pen input works similar to Galaxy Note series but requires just a tad more pressure and has screen edge accuracy which can be hit or miss with Wacom. With OneNote app it syncs to phone. Pretty much standard stuff. Overall happy with the pen but one little annoyance with the pen is each side button rocks side to side and makes little clicky noise even when you're not pressing it. Going to check out the ones at the retail store to see if it's just mine or if they're all like that. Let me know if you have specific questions about OneNote.

On a side note, haven't figured out how to highlight text in Chrome with touch only no keyboard. This is where the pen is handy. Hold down bottom pen button and swipe text to highly. IE does support touch text highlighting.

Btw, Microsoft retail store has discounted bundles. $250 for warranty extension to 2 yr, Type Cover and your choice of any sleeve or with Office 365 for $50 more ($300). You have 45 days from purchase of SP3 regardless if you bought online or in-store. They'll even let you return the Type Cover and apply credit towards bundle.

Link to Surface Pro 3 user guide:
http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/support/userguides

If you're an artist you probably want to update to the latest N-Trig driver for better app compatibility after you do the Windows Update for firmware and OS:
http://www.n-trig.com/Content.aspx?Page=wintab
 
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mi7chy said:
Coming from Thinkpad tactile keyboard and typing 100+ wpm the Touch Cover keyboard is actually fine. I prefer to turn off keyboard back light with F1 key so it doesn't drain battery. The black color is actually dark grey and turns out looking nice along with the soft touch material.

Not a fan of touch pad but it's usable for the most part. Two finger scroll gesture works. Touch and double-touch works.
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Thanks, that's useful info. Have you tried the pen with OneNote 2013 desktop yet?
 
FRZ said:
Really thought this thing would be sold out initially, all my LA area frys and best buy show in Stock. Online at tigerdirect too.
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It's not cheap, so I expected there to be good stock available. I picked up an i5 8GB/256GB model and so far so good coming from a Surface Pro.
 
I'm waiting to see a teardown, if there's any realistic possibility of putting in your own ssd, I'm getting the 64GB version and skipping the $200 upcharge for a measly 64GB extra storage, or $500 for 4GB RAM and 192GB storage. That first $799 has huge bang for your buck in terms of hardware.
 
The CPU is different for the 64gb version as well. i3-4020y with a HD4200 as opposed to the i5-4300u with a HD4400.

mi7chy, are you able to confirm whether or not the SP3 throttles under extended load? And if yes is this due to thermal limitations? Also if you own a previous Surface Pro device how it compares to them noise wise in terms of normal usage, video, and load?
 
Kueller said:
I'm waiting to see a teardown, if there's any realistic possibility of putting in your own ssd, I'm getting the 64GB version and skipping the $200 upcharge for a measly 64GB extra storage, or $500 for 4GB RAM and 192GB storage. That first $799 has huge bang for your buck in terms of hardware.
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I'm pretty sure the screen will be glued to the glass and removing it with a heat gun will ruin it.
 
Megalith said:
Let's see it with the display's brightness turned all the way up and adaptive brightness turned off in a pitch black room with the "blank" screensaver running. I bet the backlight bleed is hideous.
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So remind me again why anyone would be in a pitch black room with the brightness turned all the way up staring at a blank screen saver....
 
Henri108 said:
I heard it was a custom screen and that the glass is build-in in the screen. Not sure if it's true.
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I think he means how the Surface Pro 1/2 chassis made heavy use of glue to stay together and dis-assembly required a heat gun.

damstr said:
So remind me again why anyone would be in a pitch black room with the brightness turned all the way up staring at a blank screen saver....
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From a real world sand point the best example of this being an issue in usage would be watching videos, and more specifically movies in a dark environment.
 
limitedaccess said:
I think he means how the Surface Pro 1/2 chassis made heavy use of glue to stay together and dis-assembly required a heat gun.



From a real world sand point the best example of this being an issue in usage would be watching videos, and more specifically movies in a dark environment.
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I don't know how many people watch movies on a Surface in a pitch black room at maximum brightness but I suspect its very very low.

In pitch black rooms normal brightness is even fairly bright so having it at maximum brightness? I doubt it.
 
damstr said:
I don't know how many people watch movies on a Surface in a pitch black room at maximum brightness but I suspect its very very low.

In pitch black rooms normal brightness is even fairly bright so having it at maximum brightness? I doubt it.
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Well not specifically the maximum brightness part as back light bleed would be noticeable even in "normal" brightness levels.

Keep in mind that particular user (original poster you quoted) has a rather strong affinity for OLED screens.
 
If anybody was still wondering I have verified that the BT type cover adapter does indeed work with the SP3 type covers.

Also the SP3 type covers work with the SP2.

Also that the MS store sucks for not having a "ship all items together" and sending me my SP3 type cover 2+ months before sending me my i7 SP3.
 
I must say, having used the Surface Pro 2 extensively, I am really enjoying the 3. I was really concerned that the 12" screen was going to make the tablet too cumbersome, I am pleasantly surprised by how easy it is to handle. I am sure the fact that it is lighter and thinner than the second model probably has a lot to do with it. The 3:2 aspect ratio is also a huge improvement as 16:9 on tablet just doesn't feel right and is a productivity killer for me. I am now trying to decide whether to return the i5 and wait for the i7 variant. I am not really sure how different it will truly feel given the i5/i7 are dual core ULV parts. Also, HD5000 GPU isn't a significant step-up from the 4400 either, but I think my OCD may force me to make the change anyways. Regardless of what I do, the Surface Pro 3 is a winner.
 
Balthazar2k4 said:
I must say, having used the Surface Pro 2 extensively, I am really enjoying the 3. I was really concerned that the 12" screen was going to make the tablet too cumbersome, I am pleasantly surprised by how easy it is to handle. I am sure the fact that it is lighter and thinner than the second model probably has a lot to do with it. The 3:2 aspect ratio is also a huge improvement as 16:9 on tablet just doesn't feel right and is a productivity killer for me. I am now trying to decide whether to return the i5 and wait for the i7 variant. I am not really sure how different it will truly feel given the i5/i7 are dual core ULV parts. Also, HD5000 GPU isn't a significant step-up from the 4400 either, but I think my OCD may force me to make the change anyways. Regardless of what I do, the Surface Pro 3 is a winner.
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I wouldn't trade in for the i7 unless you absolutely plan to push things to the limit. In ULV Core processors, the difference between the i5 and i7 isn't that huge; the graphics are the biggest leap. I'd rather save that money for an upgrade to a future model.
 
limitedaccess said:
mi7chy, are you able to confirm whether or not the SP3 throttles under extended load? And if yes is this due to thermal limitations? Also if you own a previous Surface Pro device how it compares to them noise wise in terms of normal usage, video, and load?
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This is my first Surface Pro. On SP3 i5/8GB/256GB with a load of BlueStacks Android emulator running, WinRAR multi-thread benchmark and YouTube 1080p video all going on for ~15 minutes CPU clock is maintaining near base clock or higher so I would say no to throttling. While all this was going on video playback is smooth, scrolling [H] forum in another browser instance is responsive and so is doing a screen capture and penning inside OneNote. Battery drain isn't excessive at high load. Fan is hardly noticeable under load at lap distance and probably sounds like nail in tire air leak. You have to put your ear next to fan then it's noticeable but it's next to right speaker in landscape so first time it happened I thought one of the speakers was humming. Browsing alone the fan isn't even on. Heat wise under load it's about as warm as a phone or tablet when gaming so noticeable but not uncomfortable. Benefit with the design versus traditional clamshell is the heat source isn't cooking your eggs when used on lap. Happy with performance so far and glad I didn't splurge on i7 4650U but definitely get 8GB DRAM. As a comparison, WinRAR performance is equivalent to my old Xeon in signature but without the other tasks going on. Upgrading from 2-core to 2-core doesn't make financial sense but if it was 14nm i7 4-core Iris Pro 5200 then I'd be interested.

On a side note, I wished it had some of Android UI polish like popping up virtual keyboard when touching an input field and automatically closing, histogram for battery, etc.

Android5_zps6102d2f4.png
 
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mi7chy said:
On a side note, I wished it had some of Android UI polish like popping up virtual keyboard when touching an input field and automatically closing, histogram for battery, etch.
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Modern apps support auto popup keyboards. Windows 7 and prior would do it for desktop apps but it could problematic. Desktop apps can implement auto popup keyboard behavior but it's not the default behavior in Windows 8.x.
 
heatlesssun said:
Modern apps support auto popup keyboards. Windows 7 and prior would do it for desktop apps but it could problematic. Desktop apps can implement auto popup keyboard behavior but it's not the default behavior in Windows 8.x.
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Trouble is, IE desktop version doesn't do this automatically. I haven't found a setting for this.
 
damstr said:
I'm pretty sure the screen will be glued to the glass and removing it with a heat gun will ruin it.
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This is what I expect. I'm not in urgent need of a SP3, my SP1 still works fine. But I'm in love with the 3:2 aspect ratio, 12" size and lighter weight of the SP3. I will be getting one, just curious to see what a tear down shows
Henri108 said:
I heard it was a custom screen and that the glass is build-in in the screen. Not sure if it's true.
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Interesting, but still leaves the question of how the screen is attached and what form factor SSD is used. M2? msata? Soldered to mobo?

The only info I've found so far is a mention that the SSD appears to be a OEM 840 Evo (not a fan of TLC flash on a device that's likely to be quite full and see a fair bit of disk use).

I had been planning on getting the 128GB version from the beginning, but $200 for that first 64GB storage upgrade really aggravates my deal-hunting OCD.
 
Aurelius said:
I wouldn't trade in for the i7 unless you absolutely plan to push things to the limit. In ULV Core processors, the difference between the i5 and i7 isn't that huge; the graphics are the biggest leap. I'd rather save that money for an upgrade to a future model.
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My plan is to replace my Sager 7330 with this, so the extra horsepower in the graphics department might be nice. The primary use for this machine will be business while traveling, but I can see myself just playing with it around the house too. Going to give my iPad Air to my oldest as I see the SP3 as a proper replacement.
 
Balthazar2k4 said:
My plan is to replace my Sager 7330 with this, so the extra horsepower in the graphics department might be nice. The primary use for this machine will be business while traveling, but I can see myself just playing with it around the house too. Going to give my iPad Air to my oldest as I see the SP3 as a proper replacement.
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Having owned an iPad Air and SP1 you're oldest will be getting the Air. The SP3 is awesome so far.
 
I just checked this out at Best Buy. Everything seems great except for the screen and pen. The stylus is simply terrible. It would break up whenever I tried to write something, and if I tried to put steady pressure on it, it not only wouldn't help but would smear the backlight of the display.
 
If I had to guess the demo units probably aren't running the latest firmware and software. Might have something to do with it. The demo I played with had zero issues.
 
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That is good to know, although it seems impossibly stupid to ship something with such a core function broken.

I forgot to throw out that the aspect ratio is absolutely brilliant. I can only hope that they consider using AMOLED for the next version, which is a possibility if they're looking to slim the device down even further and improve the battery.
 
Even without the day one firmware and OS updates it shouldn't behave like that so that unit is likely damaged. The incompetence of Best Buy to keep it on display and they wonder why their business isn't doing well.
 
mi7chy said:
Even without the day one firmware and OS updates it shouldn't behave like that so that unit is likely damaged. The incompetence of Best Buy to keep it on display and they wonder why their business isn't doing well.
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I've not see a single review thus far that said the pen was anything like Megalith has described so I would believe that you are correct about a damaged unit. I tried out the SP3 at a BB today and the pen had been ripped off the tether so no surprise about BB demo units.

Pretty amazing piece of hardware. For the size of the screen it's not heavy at all. The new keyboard is actually pretty good and the track pad is solid though I wish it were a bit bigger. There is some flex in the keyboard when the keyboard is angled using the magnet in the bezel, but key travel feels good to me. Definitely going for the i7 version when it comes out. Not a perfect device but the overall engineering of it is impressive,
 
I also noticed that the display unit I tried had no set positions for the kickstand; it was like I could set it at any angle I wanted. I could have swore there were supposed to be three specific angles it would lock at.
 
Megalith said:
I also noticed that the display unit I tried had no set positions for the kickstand; it was like I could set it at any angle I wanted. I could have swore there were supposed to be three specific angles it would lock at.
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This is the correct function of the SP3, it rotates 150 degrees but has friction in the hinge. It's pretty clever and while it's easy to adjust it does seem to stay in position perfectly.
 
drstk said:
AnandTech review is up.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8077/microsoft-surface-pro-3-review

Hoping to get mines tomorrow.
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Something to keep in mind with this review is that I believe Anand has mentioned the SP2 he has is the older i5-4200u version, whereas anything after I believe lot 1350 (2013, week 50) also has the same i5-4300u as the SP3.

The thermal throttling situation is a bit troubling. However I'm still hearing mixed reports regarding throttling in gaming situations.
 
After reading the Anand review I feel like this Surface Pro 3 needs more dev time.
 
Kueller said:
Interesting, but still leaves the question of how the screen is attached and what form factor SSD is used. M2? msata? Soldered to mobo?
.
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You see, screen and glass are 1 piece. I would not even consider replacing any part in the SP3...
I think I am going to buy a present for someone that is starting to hate his Mac... :D
 
Henri108 said:
You see, screen and glass are 1 piece. I would not even consider replacing any part in the SP3...
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Conrats, you must have had to try really hard to misunderstand my statement in the way you did since my post was filled with context clues that when I typed "screen" there I meant removing the front of the device (glass, display, digitizer) from the back of the device (magnesium body, motherboard, battery ect) with the goal of accessing the SSD. But thanks for the totally irrelevant correction.

To forestall you thinking I am still asking about SSD access: I am not! The ifixit tear down answered my questions.
 
Megalith said:
I just checked this out at Best Buy. Everything seems great except for the screen and pen. The stylus is simply terrible. It would break up whenever I tried to write something, and if I tried to put steady pressure on it, it not only wouldn't help but would smear the backlight of the display.
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Best Buy probably didn't update the device out of the box. With the SP3 firmware and N-trig driver update I don't have the breaking up issue. It is true that hard force will smear the back light, so there is more pressure sensitivity tweaking to be done.
 
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