Sound with the Oculus Rift

F

Focker

Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Messages
794
I'm about to pull the trigger on the Dev Kit 2, but what's holding me back is I don't own a decent pair of headphones and I really don't want to turn a $350 toy into a $500 toy because I already own a $2,000 stereo system. So my question is.... have any of you used an Oculus with a stationary speaker system and how well did it work compared to headphones?
 
Stationary speakers (surround sound) would be better than headphones. I've never tried it, and I'm not sure software exists to enable rotational tracking in any game, but if it doesn't by now it should in the future.

I'm also interested in this, as I hate wearing headphones.
 
Youn said:
Stationary speakers (surround sound) would be better than headphones. I've never tried it, and I'm not sure software exists to enable rotational tracking in any game, but if it doesn't by now it should in the future.

I'm also interested in this, as I hate wearing headphones.
Click to expand...

I play War Thunder a lot and can affirm that when using free look and 5.1 headphones the sound can move a lot. I'll assume it's the same with stationary speakers.
 
Buy a headset. Games with functioning VoIP are fun and your team will thank you for not creating feedback loops.

People that hate wearing headphones haven't worn good ones (?) For far less money you can have a far better audio experience.
 
rdqlus said:
Buy a headset. Games with functioning VoIP are fun and your team will thank you for not creating feedback loops.

People that hate wearing headphones haven't worn good ones (?) For far less money you can have a far better audio experience.
Click to expand...

Thanks for totally ignoring my whole point, and if you had my home theater system you'd change your mind. I've listened to headphones and you couldn't be more wrong.

My question is strictly about the oculus rift and anyone who has already used it without headphones. There has to be someone on here... I've tried to find answers elsewhere without luck.
 
Youn said:
Stationary speakers (surround sound) would be better than headphones.
Click to expand...

Not for Oculus Rift. Your directional sound will be in the wrong direction if you're using fixed speakers with a movable headset. Although I guess it could compensate for that.
 
BladeVenom said:
Not for Oculus Rift.
Click to expand...
It's up to the software and wouldn't be difficult AT ALL to program for, maybe as little as one line of code to remove (or compensate for) rotational translation of the incoming sound.

A quick search reveals other people talking about this, so there is a chance someone's mocked it up already.
 
Youn said:
...maybe as little as one line of code to remove (or compensate for) rotational translation of the incoming sound.
Click to expand...
There's a bit more to it than that, however. Primarily because the spatialization will always be incorrect along at least two axes, but also because you rarely have a particularly great distance between your two speakers. Phantoms exist only between the speakers, but never outside it: as soon as you yaw your head too far — and you're almost guaranteed to that in any VR experience pretty often — you're done. Everything becomes incorrect.

You have a better shot at it when you have a well-configured 5.1 or 7.1 system, but it's still going to be wrong when you pitch or roll.

All this not even going into the issue of room acoustics rarely matching the expected acoustics of the virtual environment, which will may or may not break presence, and is never trivially-solvable on speakers.

That said, the Rift isn't a finalized consumer product, it might not be enough to give you a sense of presence anyway and there aren't great solutions to every VR issue. Speakers probably won't let you experience presence, but it may not make a particularly great difference either. Your mileage is going to vary.
 
Get some really nice cans and never go back to speakers for gaming again. I can locate sounds way better on my cans then speakers.

To the op what cans have you tried? I can where mine all day long np and I forget theu are my head
 
I would go with Sennheiser 598 + Soundblaster Z combo

Myself, I am ready with a HD 650 + Essence STX
 
I honestly really appreciate your suggestions, but I DON'T WANT HEADPHONES and am only interested to hear from people who have an oculus rift.
 
I wasn't annoyed using 2.1 speakers with mine, but I never got into anything hugely immersive. The DK1 is also totally inadequate for delivering presence, so any issues with sound wouldn't have broken it. You might find that the DK2 isn't good enough either — though you might. It sits right on the edge of 'good enough'.

From a pure theory perspective today, the only system that's going to work well is a set of headphones with really good HRTF. But if all you're doing is dicking around, the audio aspect doesn't matter all that much.

Are you asking because you're on the fence about cancelling your pre-order?
 
wonderfield said:
I wasn't annoyed using 2.1 speakers with mine, but I never got into anything hugely immersive. The DK1 is also totally inadequate for delivering presence, so any issues with sound wouldn't have broken it. You might find that the DK2 isn't good enough either — though you might. It sits right on the edge of 'good enough'.

From a pure theory perspective today, the only system that's going to work well is a set of headphones with really good HRTF. But if all you're doing is dicking around, the audio aspect doesn't matter all that much.

Are you asking because you're on the fence about cancelling your pre-order?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input, and I'm more on the fence about ordering it in the first place or just waiting for the commercial release. I've been anxious to get one for a couple years now, and the DK 2 specs has me pretty close to pulling the trigger.
 
wonderfield said:
I wasn't annoyed using 2.1 speakers with mine, but I never got into anything hugely immersive. The DK1 is also totally inadequate for delivering presence, so any issues with sound wouldn't have broken it. You might find that the DK2 isn't good enough either — though you might. It sits right on the edge of 'good enough'.

From a pure theory perspective today, the only system that's going to work well is a set of headphones with really good HRTF. But if all you're doing is dicking around, the audio aspect doesn't matter all that much.

Are you asking because you're on the fence about cancelling your pre-order?
Click to expand...

I think the entire model and company was based off of DK1 delivering "presence".
Saying it is inadequate makes me question you.
 
Focker said:
Thanks for totally ignoring my whole point, and if you had my home theater system you'd change your mind. I've listened to headphones and you couldn't be more wrong.

My question is strictly about the oculus rift and anyone who has already used it without headphones. There has to be someone on here... I've tried to find answers elsewhere without luck.
Click to expand...

Hmm perhaps I should have said "for the same amount of money" you can have a better audio experience? If you compare my ~$500 setup with the home audio config costing the same (speakers & amp) I'm guessing my Beyerdynamics sound better. I could be wrong though.

As for comparing it to your home system, have you listened to a $2000 headphone/amp combo? Also $2000 doesn't buy an amazing home theatre sound system. That's like a decent amp and 2 good speakers (not 5 good ones and a sub and a receiver to drive it all - like not even close).

Whatever, it doesn't matter in the end since it's unlikely that game developers are going to code in the support you're looking for. Perhaps if enough people want it but most are just going to get headphones - I suggest you do the same.
 
rdqlus said:
Hmm perhaps I should have said "for the same amount of money" you can have a better audio experience?
Click to expand...
It's a personal choice. I have a ~$600 headphone set up but I spend more time listening to my ~$300 speaker set up. I just prefer the way a set of speakers fills the room with sound. I can definitely hear more detail in the headphones and they have a better balance across the range. But "a better audio experience"? Nah, I still prefer the speakers.

As for the OR, I haven't heard of anything that does what you're looking for, I can't imagine it would be terribly hard for someone with the know-how to do it... but that could be said about a lot of things, lol.
 
wonderfield said:
There's a bit more to it than that, however. Primarily because the spatialization will always be incorrect along at least two axes, but also because you rarely have a particularly great distance between your two speakers. Phantoms exist only between the speakers, but never outside it: as soon as you yaw your head too far — and you're almost guaranteed to that in any VR experience pretty often — you're done. Everything becomes incorrect.

You have a better shot at it when you have a well-configured 5.1 or 7.1 system, but it's still going to be wrong when you pitch or roll.

All this not even going into the issue of room acoustics rarely matching the expected acoustics of the virtual environment, which will may or may not break presence, and is never trivially-solvable on speakers.

That said, the Rift isn't a finalized consumer product, it might not be enough to give you a sense of presence anyway and there aren't great solutions to every VR issue. Speakers probably won't let you experience presence, but it may not make a particularly great difference either. Your mileage is going to vary.
Click to expand...

This is a really good point that I hadn't actually thought of. Once you tilt your head you need speakers in the ceiling.
 
rdqlus said:
This is a really good point that I hadn't actually thought of. Once you tilt your head you need speakers in the ceiling.
Click to expand...
Well, just like with stereo, if you tilt your head 90 degrees then a sound that would normally be coming from the left speaker only would now be coming from both left and right, at a slightly diminished volume. So, is that extra speaker REALLY needed?

Yes, ideally you'd have speakers surrounding you in a sphere configuration for better coverage, but almost nobody has such a setup. Support for 5/7/9.1 would still be worth the effort for those who already have (and love) it and wish to not have to strap additional crap onto their heads. Some of us into audio have acoustically appropriate rooms and enjoy games more without headphones because it's simply more immersive. Yes, it costs more money, but that's not the point.

I don't imagine most developers caring much about this, at least not anytime soon.
 
Youn said:
Well, just like with stereo, if you tilt your head 90 degrees then a sound that would normally be coming from the left speaker only would now be coming from both left and right, at a slightly diminished volume. So, is that extra speaker REALLY needed?
Click to expand...
Define "needed". For correctness, yes.

For correctness, you need either a large array of speakers along many axes (something like an Atmos system could probably work well) or a speaker system that translates its drivers along with the motion of your head, regardless of the axis. The latter system already exists in headphones, and they're pretty affordable to boot.
 
It is not needed because if a sound is dead center on both axis then chances are it is coming from above your head, or if it is muffled then it's traveling through the floor or from within your own body.

You gotta remember that nothing in VR, visually or audibly, is truly "correct" in technical terms, but that is not to say you can't simulate things pretty well with currently popular solutions. To say it is technically incorrect is missing the point of the thread and over-simplifies how our actual ears behave in the real world. Even with stereo it is easy to trick our brains into thinking something is in front or behind us.
 
Youn said:
Well, just like with stereo, if you tilt your head 90 degrees then a sound that would normally be coming from the left speaker only would now be coming from both left and right, at a slightly diminished volume. So, is that extra speaker REALLY needed?
Click to expand...

If you don't have a VR headset, you probably aren't tilting your head 90% when playing games. Besides you never actually feel like you're inside the game when using a monitor, so the sound positioning isn't as important as when using a VR headset.
 
Youn said:
You gotta remember that nothing in VR, visually or audibly, is truly "correct" in technical terms
Click to expand...
Presence is predicated entirely on the mechanical (technical) aspects of correctness. If your subconscious does not accept it as a plausible projection, you simply cannot experience it. The senses have to be fooled on an entirely subconscious level prior to any cognitive reasoning, and when subtle aspects of the simulation are incorrect (say, when the motion tracker's latency is too high), you lose the subconscious sense of being in a different environment. There's a fundamental 'connection' that has to happen.

The environment itself can be completely implausible, but when the simulation of it as a projection is close enough to correct, your subconscious can accept it. Otherwise, it cannot.
 
Right but audio is not nearly as sensitive as video. If a sound is off by 5 degrees your brain doesn't go all crazy and it suddenly breaks immersion.

If you haven't tried it before then you really don't know.
 
Friend of mine has the Oculus Dev Kit 1. He also has a set of logitech 5.1 speakers and a Logitech G930 wireless surround headset. I have tried both setups, and the difference is infinitely better with the headset.


The problem is positional awareness. Can software account for it? Yes, but it is a pain in the ass to code for and game developers will not put the time or energy into it. Also, anything that has been ported over to work with it by the developers or if you rigged a current game to run it the games will not have support for it.

Next problem is immersion. The whole point of the oculus is to immerse yourself from the outside world. Hearing things outside of this small virtual bubble around your head will detract from this. I have tried both setups both headset and speakers, even when I wasn't moving my head much, the audio coming from one angle when I'm looking at another completely ruined the immersion. The only time it didn't was when the main source of noise was directly in front of me...e.g. the engine from a race car or a plane.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
The problem is positional awareness. Can software account for it? Yes, but it is a pain in the ass to code for and game developers will not put the time or energy into it. Also, anything that has been ported over to work with it by the developers or if you rigged a current game to run it the games will not have support for it
Click to expand...

I'd actually think it's something you'd do outside the game. The game puts out a 5.1 signal, you feed that through a positioning algorithm and then feed the updated information to the speakers.
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
Friend of mine has the Oculus Dev Kit 1. He also has a set of logitech 5.1 speakers and a Logitech G930 wireless surround headset. I have tried both setups, and the difference is infinitely better with the headset.


The problem is positional awareness. Can software account for it? Yes, but it is a pain in the ass to code for and game developers will not put the time or energy into it. Also, anything that has been ported over to work with it by the developers or if you rigged a current game to run it the games will not have support for it.

Next problem is immersion. The whole point of the oculus is to immerse yourself from the outside world. Hearing things outside of this small virtual bubble around your head will detract from this. I have tried both setups both headset and speakers, even when I wasn't moving my head much, the audio coming from one angle when I'm looking at another completely ruined the immersion. The only time it didn't was when the main source of noise was directly in front of me...e.g. the engine from a race car or a plane.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll wait for the commercial release. :) (Oculus has hinted that the rift isn't the only hardware they're making, so I'm assuming it's going to be headphones).
 
Tudz said:
I'd actually think it's something you'd do outside the game. The game puts out a 5.1 signal, you feed that through a positioning algorithm and then feed the updated information to the speakers.
Click to expand...
There wouldn't be enough information to derive spatialization information. Such an algorithm would need at the very least a vector representing the listener and vectors for each of the emitters, and you could still only attempt to skew things back into correctness.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top