Prospective IT Advice?

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kidstechno

Gawd
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Dec 14, 2005
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I graduated with a CIMS degree back in 2009 and also got A+ and Network+ certified. I applied to a ton of jobs up and down the East Coast but got rejected for anything IT. Unfortunately all I have is Customer Service experience working retail through HS/College and landed a job at an insurance company shortly after graduating, which I'm currently a supervisor at for customer service. My dream/goals are to eventually make my way into IT because that's where I have just a passion and longing for. I've also tried to get into IT spots here just for experience but it always seems they run out of budget or fill it with some other schmuck who they were saving a spot from. Even my friend left the company stating there was no real opportunity to move up in our IT position. However, we've recently been on a "growth" kick with more resources being fed to IT/marketing because our systems are older than Methuselah.

My main point is this: My company pays for us to go to college, up to about $15k a year. With absolutely no experience in IT other than building my own computers/helping people out here and there - would getting a Masters really be worth it? Or should I really just focus on some type of Certs and go from there? I'm kind of at a crossroads and deciding what my next step would be.
 
A MS will never hurt you. It might not be an immediate big boost but it probably will help. My opinion is that if your company will pay for school, take it. That's free money. Get it while you can. Past and current employers paid for almost all of my BS and MS degrees and I don't regret it. I was always amazed at how few people took advantage of those programs.

Many people here will probably tell you it's not worth it..but if someone else is paying it absolutely is.
 
I agree with NetJunike, if someone else is willing to pay for the education you should have taken advantage of that yesterday. If you're a dedicated person, check out online-only programs. IIRC Penn State has a great program for less than $15k/year.
 
Get professional experience however you can. No job is too small. Experience works wonders in the IT field
 
Soldier101 said:
Get professional experience however you can. No job is too small. Experience works wonders in the IT field
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Pretty much. Paper can get you to the top of a list, but experience and ability will get you the job.
 
I was under the impression that certs and experience are what matter in IT, not education. If your employer is paying, better take advantage of it though.
 
r-486 said:
I was under the impression that certs and experience are what matter in IT, not education.
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....The people who tell you that usually don't have very much education, though, so I'm not sure I would listen to them. People with more education usually get paid more to do the same thing than people with less, so it seems fairly clear to me that the people doing the actual hiring and salary decisions in IT value it far more than the people with no education think they do.

I would also say that advanced degrees are a fairly esteemed accomplishment. Most people respect that. A master's degree in anything, even something like anthropology, is of significant value to anybody in nearly any job. It certainly isn't a substitute for experience, but it definitely complements it well. I'd hire someone with 2-3 years of good experience and a good master's degree (read their thesis if you'd like to decide whether or not their education is good) over someone with 10-12 years experience and no education almost any day of the week.

Anybody who tells you that a master's degree is worthless is a complete fool. There's definitely a lot of value in having one, and if you can get one and have your employer foot the tab I honestly think that's too good of an opportunity to pass up. I would say go for it.
 
Dogs said:
....The people who tell you that usually don't have very much education, though, so I'm not sure I would listen to them. People with more education usually get paid more to do the same thing than people with less, so it seems fairly clear to me that the people doing the actual hiring and salary decisions in IT value it far more than the people with no education think they do.
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The alternative to this is that you don't get hired because you have too much experience, and they don't want to pay someone twice as much when they can get a never ending stream of interns to do the same job for minimum wage.
 
wizdum said:
The alternative to this is that you don't get hired because you have too much experience, and they don't want to pay someone twice as much when they can get a never ending stream of interns to do the same job for minimum wage.
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If your skillset is limited to tasks they can easily pay interns minimum wage to do, then yes, you'll probably have that problem.

...but I don't really see this as a legitimate problem for good IT professionals. For one thing, companies don't like turnover, and another issue is that interns are there for the summer, so they're not always dedicated. In this regard, full time is more valuable to the company than a stream of interns that are constantly leaving and being replaced. Furthermore, to get capable interns we have to pay 2-4 times minimum wage depending on whether we're getting freshmen or trying to retain juniors or seniors.

Even at what most places around here pay good interns, you'd be making a livable, comfortable income. Most places have trouble hiring qualified senior IT persons (across the board, too. Systems administrators, network engineers, software developers, project managers, you name it), so if you're getting turned down for jobs, it's not because you're overqualified. I can imagine them telling people that, though, to avoid hurt feelings.
 
It's really all in who you ask -- some people would rather hire someone with pure experience in the field for mission-critical tasks and to hell with 'well-roundedness' in other areas, while others would prefer a general 'jack-of-all, master-of-none' type sysadmin to solve everyday problems. Education, Certs and Experience all carry weight in IT, but there's no silver-bullet in getting a job in IT just like any other field. The safest approach is a balance among the three, IMO.
 
wizdum said:
The alternative to this is that you don't get hired because you have too much experience, and they don't want to pay someone twice as much when they can get a never ending stream of interns to do the same job for minimum wage.
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The problem with the IT market is on the low end..entry level. It's not on the high end. Once you get a good bit of experience the problem of finding a good job basically goes away.
 
NetJunkie said:
The problem with the IT market is on the low end..entry level. It's not on the high end. Once you get a good bit of experience the problem of finding a good job basically goes away.
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In terms of entry-level work, are the options pretty much help desk or bust? As someone about to take an Intro to Networking class I'm looking for a little insight as to what I can expect in a couple years once I graduate.
 
Cottons said:
In terms of entry-level work, are the options pretty much help desk or bust? As someone about to take an Intro to Networking class I'm looking for a little insight as to what I can expect in a couple years once I graduate.
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Not always. I hire people out of college with IT oriented technical degrees for work in our NOC. Managing gear, working tickets, monitoring stuff...and then they work up to consulting engineers. Best thing you can do is go out to user groups and other events to meet people. Make contacts.
 
Cottons said:
In terms of entry-level work, are the options pretty much help desk or bust? As someone about to take an Intro to Networking class I'm looking for a little insight as to what I can expect in a couple years once I graduate.
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Not at all. I started out in a small Private School group in San Francisco as a jr sys admin under a more experienced Lady. Learned a shit ton from a gen 3 silicon valley alum and never rode a help desk. I got paid shit, but it has paid off later on.
 
Dogs said:
If your skillset is limited to tasks they can easily pay interns minimum wage to do, then yes, you'll probably have that problem.
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You had mentioned that people with more experience tend to get paid more to do the same job as someone with less experience. The problem is, a lot of organizations will hire the guy with less experience to save money.

Now, that changes if you're looking at a company that actually cares about IT, but Cisco, IBM, and Microsoft can only hire so many people. I'm not saying that this is the only case, just that it is a case. Especially with more and more companies moving their hardware "to the cloud" and outsourcing their IT.

One of my professors in college was teaching because of this problem. He lost his job after 20 years, had plenty of experience and certs. He would go into interviews asking for $X amount of money, and they would tell him that due to his experience and their pay bracketing system, they were required to pay him $X * 2, which was not an option for them at this time.
 
wizdum said:
You had mentioned that people with more experience tend to get paid more to do the same job as someone with less experience.
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I said education, but none the less they do this because said experience is important to them. No company in the entire world is ever going to say "sorry, we don't want you because you're too good at what you do". They're going to offer you what they're willing to pay first, and if you decline they will move on down to the next guy. Nobody flat out refuses to hire someone because they are too good. If a company can get the perfect candidate for the price of an imperfect one, they're not going to say no. People who get turned down for being "over qualified" are actually being turned down for other reasons.

wizdum said:
...and outsourcing their IT.
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Yeah, that thing companies have supposedly been doing for the past, what, 25 years now? Important roles never get outsourced offshore, and the only time consultants are brought in at large companies is when the company can't find a skilled worker willing to fill the role, or when the company doesn't have time between now and their deadline obligations to get someone.

wizdum said:
One of my professors in college was teaching because of this problem. He lost his job after 20 years, had plenty of experience and certs. He would go into interviews asking for $X amount of money, and they would tell him that due to his experience and their pay bracketing system, they were required to pay him $X * 2, which was not an option for them at this time.
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At will employers don't have to actually do that. If someone wants to work for a certain amount, as long as that amount meets legal wage floors it won't be a problem. There's a different reason why they weren't interested in him.
 
OP here, thanks for the input. Does anyone know of any good accredited online only IT places that offer decent programs for reasonable costs?
 
My two cents; I've interviewed soooooo many people with these online degrees and they all suck. I'm so jaded by the candidates they spew out that I find myself discrediting these people because they have that degree type. Now if it's a legitimate college and a legitimate degree, that's one thing, but if you don't have time/money for that, I'd do certs. At least with certs the people know something, these six month "become a successful information systems professional" places teach you the bare minimum, stuff that can easily be learned on your home lab. On top of that, once you actually land the interview, you'll get slaughtered when I start asking technical questions that you put on your resume, but actually don't know anything about.

I like to see initiative; once you get into the door, if you show me you actively pursued and acquired certifications on your own accord, that shows me you care about the field...it's not just a "job."

Then all it takes is excellent communication/people skills and you're hired! :)
 
kidstechno said:
OP here, thanks for the input. Does anyone know of any good accredited online only IT places that offer decent programs for reasonable costs?
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Check your state schools too. I did my MS in Info Security through East Carolina and it was 100% online and it was in-state tuition.
 
Phog said:
My two cents; I've interviewed soooooo many people with these online degrees and they all suck. I'm so jaded by the candidates they spew out that I find myself discrediting these people because they have that degree type. Now if it's a legitimate college and a legitimate degree, that's one thing, but if you don't have time/money for that, I'd do certs. At least with certs the people know something, these six month "become a successful information systems professional" places teach you the bare minimum, stuff that can easily be learned on your home lab. On top of that, once you actually land the interview, you'll get slaughtered when I start asking technical questions that you put on your resume, but actually don't know anything about.

I like to see initiative; once you get into the door, if you show me you actively pursued and acquired certifications on your own accord, that shows me you care about the field...it's not just a "job."

Then all it takes is excellent communication/people skills and you're hired! :)
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Yea that definitely makes sense, and like I said - once I got out of college I got at least bare minimum A+ and Network+, and was perusing Security+ just for shites and giggles before I got hired at my current job and kind of abandoned it since saving a couple hundred bucks sounded pretty good. That's why I kind of want to do research first and find out which online programs are actually legit vs. ones that just teach "This is how a processor works" in a Masters class.
 
Don't waste your time with an M.S. Go the MBA route. MBA is a better option if you're looking to get to executive-level positions.
 
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