Intel Z97, what's the point?

sblantipodi

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Hi,
I don't understood what's new on Z97.

What is the improvements of Z97 over Z87?
Is a new chipset really needed?

Thanks.
 
Pure marketing. Z97 is needed for DC and Broadwell. I can't see buying a Z97 for a 4770K, but for the upcoming Broadwell it will be necessary. I'm not upgrading, but I am building a second rig so I'll go with an Asus Z97 Pro WHEN the refreshed Haswells come out next month and, most likely upgrade to Broadwell in the future. Were it not for needing another PC, I wouldn't consider buying anything right now.
 
Pure marketing. Z97 is needed for DC and Broadwell. I can't see buying a Z97 for a 4770K, but for the upcoming Broadwell it will be necessary. I'm not upgrading, but I am building a second rig so I'll go with an Asus Z97 Pro WHEN the refreshed Haswells come out next month and, most likely upgrade to Broadwell in the future. Were it not for needing another PC, I wouldn't consider buying anything right now.

What is DC and why Broadwell need it?
As far as I know the socket is the same, what new features brings broadwell that needs a new chipset?
 
Come on! You 're an Intel guy! A rich guy who is supposed to brag about his superior rig in internet fora and showing benchmarks to poor AMD users. This comes at a price! You are SUPPOSED to change motherboards often, comes with the bragging rights! What good is being rich, if you can't prove it? :D Besides, Intel wants to squeeze some more $, so it's a win-win!

Sent from my paidbydumbbuyertomakefreepubblicitytosmartmanufacturer VI using crapatalk
 
Hi,
I don't understood what's new on Z97.

What is the improvements of Z97 over Z87?
Is a new chipset really needed?

M2 PCIe SSD support & SATA Express support. Also seems most of the current reviews show a current gen Haswell K processor overclocks better on Z97 vs. Z87.

What is DC and why Broadwell need it?

Devils Canyon is the code name for the Refresh Haswell K processors with improved TIM and heat spreader technology to allow for higher overclocks. Looks like Devils Canyon are 88 watt processors and may exceed Z87 power specs.

See the story at WCCF Tech

Broadwell is the new 5th gen processor from Intel and again, the top end K models may exceed the Z87 power envelope (pure speculation on my part but seems plausible based on current DC processor power need)

As far as I know the socket is the same, what new features brings broadwell that needs a new chipset?
Don't know yet but a new gen processor usually has multiple new power/instruction requirements. I am sure we find out as leaked information trickles out of the Big Blue camp.
 
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I don't understood what's new on Z97.
Sata express seems to be the main new feature. There is also the question of processor support.

Devils Canyon is the code name for the Refresh Haswell K processors with improved TIM and heat spreader technology to allow for higher overclocks. Looks like Devils Canyon are 88 watt processors and may exceed Z87 power specs.

See the story at WCCF Tech

Broadwell is the new 5th gen processor from Intel and again, the top end K models may exceed the Z87 power envelope (pure speculation on my part but seems plausible based on current DC processor power need)
Before ivy bridge came out there were loads of rumours about incompatibilities with existing boards. Stuff about having to replace the BIOS with a totally different one by an upgrade path that the end user carried out. Rumours of weird tie ins with some new drm system or somesuch and that it would be incompatible with older operating systems.

Then when ivy bridge actually came out it turns out all that was needed was a regular bios update and that all the scare stories had been BS.

If you need a new motherboard for other reasons then I would get the latest chipset (assuming the price is similar) but if your only reason to get one is a planned upgrade to devils canyon or broadwell I would wait until the processors are actually released and evaluate the evidence at that time.
 
M2 PCIe SSD support & SATA Express support. Also seems most of the current reviews show a current gen Haswell K processor overclocks better on Z97 vs. Z87.

-snip-

I saw that as well. TTL was doing a review of one of the lower end ASUS boards and was running a 4770k @ 4.9Ghz with 1.28 or something crazy like that. I've only seen a crazy golden chip do that before.



You guys are forgetting to mention that the voltage regulator is moving off of the CPU with Z97. With Haswell, the voltage regulator was moved from the motherboard onto the CPU, and now with the refresh it's moving back. It's unclear whether or not plopping in a 4770k will use the FIVR or the onboard voltage regulator.

I think that this is the biggest change. Having the voltage regulator back on the motherboard might possibly bring back the era of spending more on a motherboard means higher overclocks because of better on board components. I'm not exactly a huge fan of this, but I'd rather have it on the board than the CPU to keep the CPU cooler and remove one more possible thing to the silicon lottery.

Is the chipset really needed? Not really. It's just another way for Intel to make more money while AMD plays catch up. (Hopefully in single core performance) Since this is a refresh of Haswell, I'm curious as to whether or not Intel will permanently be moving to a tick tock tock plan as opposed to the previous tick tock.

On a side note, I personally want to see a generational performance boost like we saw with Nehalem to SB. Don't get me wrong, it's awesome that people with 2500k's are still don't need to upgrade for gaming, but I want more! :p
 
What's the deal with SATA Express? Will 2 ssds in SATA ports in RAID 0 be faster on z97 than z87?
nm..1000 mb/s :)
 
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I have an Intel DZ87KLT-75K in my main rig, and they just released a BIOS update on 5/1/14 that had "Updated Processor Support" in the release notes. Considering it's an Intel board, and no other processors for S1150 were released recently; I have confidence that DC/broadwell will be compatible with certain Z87 boards. Who really knows until we get an official statement though :p
 
Come on! You 're an Intel guy! A rich guy who is supposed to brag about his superior rig in internet fora and showing benchmarks to poor AMD users. This comes at a price! You are SUPPOSED to change motherboards often, comes with the bragging rights! What good is being rich, if you can't prove it? :D Besides, Intel wants to squeeze some more $, so it's a win-win!

Sent from my paidbydumbbuyertomakefreepubblicitytosmartmanufacturer VI using crapatalk

I think people who have no lives get off in changing reloading Windows 8 installing on of their steam collection over. It's much more fun then just plugging in a new graphics card
and saying HEY look what I did changing motherboards and CPUs in a lot more fun but I'm a AMD FX-8350 branded person.
One day I might goto the DARK SIDE of the force which is Intel.....
 
Hi,
I don't understood what's new on Z97.

What is the improvements of Z97 over Z87?
Is a new chipset really needed?

Thanks.

Devil's Canyon and Broadwell will not be supported on Z87, due to differing power delivery mechanisms which were not used on Z87.

So basically anyone upgrading to DC or Broadwell will need Z97, neither will work on Z87. IIRC intel has confirmed Broadwell to work on Z97, with the 100 series chipsets being designed for Skylake. Anyone using an older Haswell with an existing Z87 board has no reason to upgrade. SATA-E certainly isn't a reason, since there is nothing on the market yet to take advantage of it. Even if so, SSDs are plenty fast as is.
 
I think people who have no lives get off in changing reloading Windows 8 installing on of their steam collection over. It's much more fun then just plugging in a new graphics card
and saying HEY look what I did changing motherboards and CPUs in a lot more fun but I'm a AMD FX-8350 branded person.
One day I might goto the DARK SIDE of the force which is Intel.....

God ain't that the truth. I recently upgraded to a Samsung SSD and decided to reinstall my OS instead if trying to clone or anything and it was a pretty good pain in the balls. Took many hours to get everything installed again and back to where it was. My Origin games were a particularly wonderful pain to put back. I was thinking I might upgrade to Intel when the Haswell refresh came out but now think I'll just get a 8350 and ride it out for a while instead if having to go thru all that shit again.
 
I too have the same question: What's the point of a z97 mobo?

Broadwell won't be out for another 6 months, add 6 months to find & fix any defects, you're looking at another year or more.
 
I too have the same question: What's the point of a z97 mobo?

Broadwell won't be out for another 6 months, add 6 months to find & fix any defects, you're looking at another year or more.

Devil's Canyon also requires Z97. Basically, the boards are for those who are upgrading. If you're not upgrading, it isn't for you. That sounds like a pretty ridiculous statement, but essentially............ if you have a 5 year old system and decide hey, I want a new platform, well the choice is obvious if you want the DC. You get Z97 and DC. And DC will not work on Z87. Why would you even want to upgrade if you have Haswell? But if you're getting something new over something 4-5 years old, you get Z97.

To be clear: there's no reason to get Z97 if you want to use your existing Haswell and Z87 board. I don't know why anyone would question this, most people don't upgrade yearly anyway. Even back in the early 2k years I didn't upgrade my CPU yearly. If you're looking for a reason to do a yearly upgrade, well, there isn't one. Stay where you're at. You only need Z97 for Devil's Canyon (being released in 3 weeks) and Broadwell.
 
Come on! You 're an Intel guy! A rich guy who is supposed to brag about his superior rig in internet fora and showing benchmarks to poor AMD users. This comes at a price! You are SUPPOSED to change motherboards often, comes with the bragging rights!
Except you don't need to upgrade past Z68-based products in order to lord benchmarks over AMD users ;)

What good is being rich, if you can't prove it? :D Besides, Intel wants to squeeze some more $, so it's a win-win!
Intel is effectively competing against themselves in the high-end. If they want users to upgrade, they need to give them a compelling reason to do so over the features present in THEIR OWN older products.

As it is, I'm still perfectly happy with a Sandybridge CPU and a Z68 motherboard. I've seen nothing ground-breaking from Intel that would make me want to upgrade.
 
I think people who have no lives get off in changing reloading Windows 8 installing on of their steam collection over. It's much more fun then just plugging in a new graphics card
and saying HEY look what I did changing motherboards and CPUs in a lot more fun but I'm a AMD FX-8350 branded person.
One day I might goto the DARK SIDE of the force which is Intel.....

I'm insulted. ;) I enjoy reinstalling crap--not sure why. It's like a fresh start at life. Maybe you'll get everything right this time.
 
I enjoy doing a fresh install of OS on a new advanced system as well. If you are serious about performance then the Z97 will interest you.

Sure the performance gains aren't mind boggling but there is performance gains to be seen and when you want to do all you can to keep your system in the lead then upgrading is necessary and if you enjoy the whole process then it will be enjoyable as well.

For me it's enjoyable.
 
I don't see the problem - Z97 pricing seems to be direct replacement to Z87 boards with same features (apart from good deals than can be found now due to removing older products from channels)
 
M2 PCIe SSD support & SATA Express support. Also seems most of the current reviews show a current gen Haswell K processor overclocks better on Z97 vs. Z87.



Devils Canyon is the code name for the Refresh Haswell K processors with improved TIM and heat spreader technology to allow for higher overclocks. Looks like Devils Canyon are 88 watt processors and may exceed Z87 power specs.

See the story at WCCF Tech

Broadwell is the new 5th gen processor from Intel and again, the top end K models may exceed the Z87 power envelope (pure speculation on my part but seems plausible based on current DC processor power need)

Don't know yet but a new gen processor usually has multiple new power/instruction requirements. I am sure we find out as leaked information trickles out of the Big Blue camp.

Also, usually you don't do incremental upgrades such as Z87->Z97 *unless* there is something in the newer chipset that you can use right away; the last time this was the case was with LGA1155, and specifically Z77. Contrariwise, if the price difference between the two overlapping chipsets is little or none (and in Z97's case, the difference appears to be firmly in the NONE camp), go with the newer chipset (Z97) when the two motherboards are identical otherwise.

I may actually FINALLY be in a position to stop having to stall over my long-overdue upgrade - and it is coming simultaneously with the release of Z97 (at least by the majors - including ASRock); ASRock has also begun shipping Z97 versions alongside the Z87 versions of the Extreme series (Newegg has them in stock now). The price difference (Z87 vs. Z97) is all of $1USD in the case of the Extreme4; further, due to a noticed inventory quirk at MicroCenter Rockville, I'm expecting the first Z97 shipments will soon arrive there (and at other retailers) as well.

Basically, if you have Z87 now, stay put. If you are building/upgrading to LGA1150, and Z97 is available, go Z97.

UPDATE - As expected, MicroCenter IS getting their first Z97 motherboard shipments in - the Z97 Extreme6 landed at Rockville, MD today.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/433089/Z97_Extreme6_Socket_LGA_1150_ATX_Intel_Motherboard

While the SRP is, in fact, lower than the Z87 Extreme6 (by $20USD), the discounts put the older board cheaper in-store by $15USD instead.

I'm expecting such price wackiness to continue where there are versions of each that overlap (gotta clear out that older inventory).
 
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Chipset and motherboards have been a bit stale lately. Should of waited until they could bring DDR4/quad channel to mainstream before releasing this.
 
Chipset and motherboards have been a bit stale lately. Should of waited until they could bring DDR4/quad channel to mainstream before releasing this.

DDR4/quad-channel is for a new socket (which this isn't) - both of those will come with Z99.

The Z87->Z97 situation is analogous with LGA1155 and Z68/Z77, except that here are fewer differences between Z87 and Z97 than was the case with Z68 and Z77.

The lack of differences are why I don't suggest that current Z87 motherboard owners crossgrade to Z97; however, if you are building LGA1150 now, I would suggest going Z97 *instead* of Z87. (As was the case with Z77 vs. Z68, there is basically no price difference.)
 
DDR4/quad-channel is for a new socket (which this isn't) - both of those will come with Z99.

The Z87->Z97 situation is analogous with LGA1155 and Z68/Z77, except that here are fewer differences between Z87 and Z97 than was the case with Z68 and Z77.

The lack of differences are why I don't suggest that current Z87 motherboard owners crossgrade to Z97; however, if you are building LGA1150 now, I would suggest going Z97 *instead* of Z87. (As was the case with Z77 vs. Z68, there is basically no price difference.)

But what if Devil's Canyon can do our laundry?
 
But what if Devil's Canyon can do our laundry?

Note that I didn't discount a new feature that Z97 has that you could leverage; after all, I DID recommend Z77 with even Sandy Bridge CPUs (due to features that Z77 included that are NOT CPU-dependent). In my case, Z97 does support SATA Express (which Z87 does not) - that is not CPU-specific. However, if I had already purchased a Z87 motherboard, I'd be breaking my own policy by recommending Z97 instead, as my reasoning for recommending Z97 has nothing to do with Devil's Canyon.
 
You're making a bigger deal out of this than you need to.

It's pretty fucking simple. If you're buying a new platform, you buy Z97. If you're not buying a new platform, you stay put, and you don't buy a new platform.

Z97 is required for Devil's Canyon and Broadwell. Obviously if someone is not upgrading that doesn't mean shit. So why would anyone with Z87 get a Z97? They don't.

It's pretty obvious that most folks don't do yearly upgrades, and like every yearly product update, there's no reason for anyone to get a Z97 if they have Z87. Christ. I have never ever done yearly cpu or motherboard upgrades. Ever....well maybe ONCE in more than 10 years. Even when there were big generational jumps, it was a bi-annual upgrade most of the time. I don't see why there are some asking for reasons to upgrade. If you upgrade you upgrade to Z97. If your'e not upgrading, you don't upgrade. That sounds stupid, but that's basically how it is. Z97 is what you get if you're upgrading. Z97 is the only choice for anyone seeking a new mainstream quad core platform. Everyone else stays put.
 
You're making a bigger deal out of this than you need to.

It's pretty fucking simple. If you're buying a new platform, you buy Z97. If you're not buying a new platform, you stay put, and you don't buy a new platform.

Z97 is required for Devil's Canyon and Broadwell. Obviously if someone is not upgrading that doesn't mean shit. So why would anyone with Z87 get a Z97? They don't.

It's pretty obvious that most folks don't do yearly upgrades, and like every yearly product update, there's no reason for anyone to get a Z97 if they have Z87. Christ. I have never ever done yearly cpu or motherboard upgrades. Ever....well maybe ONCE in more than 10 years. Even when there were big generational jumps, it was a bi-annual upgrade most of the time. I don't see why there are some asking for reasons to upgrade. If you upgrade you upgrade to Z97. If your'e not upgrading, you don't upgrade. That sounds stupid, but that's basically how it is. Z97 is what you get if you're upgrading. Z97 is the only choice for anyone seeking a new mainstream quad core platform. Everyone else stays put.

Or we can do whatever we want if we have money to burn. In that case the "point" would be, I want the fastest proc on the block and I'm not going to hide in the shadows and pretend I didn't throw money at Intel just because it's not necessarily the "smart" buy. Never claimed to be good with money, but I do have this "Buddha will provide" kinda outlook. I'm sure Intel just loves idiots like me :D
 
Or we can do whatever we want if we have money to burn. In that case the "point" would be, I want the fastest proc on the block and I'm not going to hide in the shadows and pretend I didn't throw money at Intel just because it's not necessarily the "smart" buy. Never claimed to be good with money, but I do have this "Buddha will provide" kinda outlook. I'm sure Intel just loves idiots like me :D

Oh, well, that's totally cool. :) I've done that a time or two for sure (not always with CPUs, but in general). My comment is more or less those complaining about "why should I upgrade Z87 to Z97"? If you have to ask, you don't. Know what I mean.

But if you're the latest and greatest type of guy, which i've done at various points with GPUs and a few times with CPU, that's totally cool as well. I just don't think the complaints about Z97 are warranted. If you want DC or are buying a new platform, well you get Z97. If someone is looking for reasons to not upgrade, or have a Haswell already and don't want to upgrade, well then don't upgrade. ;)
 
Or we can do whatever we want if we have money to burn. In that case the "point" would be, I want the fastest proc on the block and I'm not going to hide in the shadows and pretend I didn't throw money at Intel just because it's not necessarily the "smart" buy. Never claimed to be good with money, but I do have this "Buddha will provide" kinda outlook. I'm sure Intel just loves idiots like me :D

If you are buying cpu for gaming rig then i5 is smartesst buy you can possibly make :D
 
So when will we see the X99 chipset on motherboards and Haswell-E or is that now the Broadwell chipset
 
Built my first box in 10 years last December. Needed to stick to a tight initial-build budget. So in went an i3 knowing I'd simply drop in a 4770k down the road. Then I learn about the craptacular TIM and poor overclocking. I start reading up on de-lidding and even bare die cooling. Suddenly, Haswell Refresh! No more crappy TIM, better temps and overclocking? Ok sure but give me the 4970K so I can make use of this nice board I bought... and while it still hasn't been 100% confirmed one way or another, it is looking strongly like while sure I could drop in a HR, DC is a no-go.... So... I get to settle for a 4970 or upgrade my board in order to get a 4970k. :(
 
I was expecting this to happen so I waited and I'm glad I did. I liked the speed of the 4770k but I didn't like the TIM issue.
 
But what if Devil's Canyon can do our laundry?

Will it know to separate the whites from the coloreds? :p

The point is that some minor tweaks were made to the basic architecture of the CPUs which necessitated a new chipset. On one hand you could say that this coming from Intel is no shocker, as they have a habit of keeping socket lifespans short. On the other hand you could say that AMD has been and continues to be held back to some extent by implementing new CPU architectures while leaving sockets the same.

Z97 is the enthusiast flavor of the mid-range market segment for Intel. As such, they know that people will buy it, even if it is only a minor improvement over the existing enthusiast flavor mid-range chipset. I bet that these chipsets are only a small fraction of their overall sales so there is little risk in alienating users.

H97, on the business side, gives OEMs a new platform to show off in marketing while simultaneously liquidating old stock on CPUs, so it is a win/win for them.

The positive for the rest of us is that the Z87 products should now experience some price cuts as inventory is sold down, making an affordable platform even more affordable. Just because it is less upgradeable does not mean that it will not work for most people for the next 3 - 5 years and the majority of those buyers would probably not have utilized the new feature set anyway.

Also, didn't Intel do the same thing in the past with LGA 775? The first generation (Pentium 4) sockets were physically the same, but electrically dissimilar from the second generation (Core 2), preventing them from running the newer chips, while maintaining backwards compatibility with the older chips.
 
How many games benefit from 4c/4t? Most games dont even properly utilize 4 cores.

X64 executables should (and most do) - Kentsfield (Q6600) is proof enough of that.

So far, not so much as ONE x64-only game (or game executable) is unsupported by Q6600. (Yes - you did read that correctly.) Basically, the only issue there REALLY is with x64 and Q6600 (and every other x64 dual-core or quad-core from Intel - or AMD for that matter) has to do with chipset-specific issues, not with the CPUs themselves; the initial run of Intel's G41, for example, only supported DDR2 (the refresh only supported two sticks of DDR3) - therefore, it becomes a memory-capacity problem. (Not the fault of the CPU - P35 and P45, let alone X48, don't have that problem.)

Even Watch Dogs (the latest x64-only game) will run on Q6600 - the issue is that the game's memory requirements will outstrip the lowest-end of chipsets that support Q6600. (Again, that's not the processor's fault.) Don't blame the CPU for issues that aren't its fault.
 
I have been hearing alot about z97, and after researching some of the new boards, I am seriously considering jumping from the amd ship over to Intel. (Actually I have been wanting to make the jump for some time, but AMD will always have a place in my heart. :D )

I have been looking at a few boards and the one that looks good to me and is reasonable priced is the Gigabyte-GA-Z97X-SOC Force. Its around $200.00 and is loaded with features and apparently a awesome overclocker.
 
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