Kimera Industries Cerberus: The 18L, mATX, USA-made enclosure

How's something like this for the vents?

2014-05-06_vent-layout-test2.jpg
 
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I think I'd prefer rectangular areas, but I'm happy to see a full render :D You really like your red, huh? Sexy! :)
 
Looks awesome (especially in red)!

Rectangular, slanted vents might be more suitable.

Additionally, have you considered using two handles perpendicular to the depth (with respect to the chassis front) instead of one parallel handle? I feel that it may provide a more coherent design.
 
theGryphon said:
I think I'd prefer rectangular areas, but I'm happy to see a full render :D You really like your red, huh? Sexy! :)
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xSDMx said:
Looks awesome (especially in red)!

Rectangular, slanted vents might be more suitable.
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I'll be busy the next few days, but when I have time I'll try to post a few renders with different vent arrangements. I just did this one real quick because I got tired of messing with the details of the frame for today.

I really like the idea of a red case because it is uncommon and it would go great with the new ROG boards. I'm thinking of having the exterior panels powder coated because I would like to offer different colors (black, white, red, blue, green, etc.).

xSDMx said:
Additionally, have you considered using two handles perpendicular to the depth (with respect to the chassis front) instead of one parallel handle? I feel that it may provide a more coherent design.
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Not you too! :p

Like I told AFD here, having two perpendicular handles rack server/Mac Pro style may look better but the handle is meant for transporting the case, so having a single parallel handle leaves the other hand free to carry suitcase, monitor, etc.

I have some ideas for a travel harness for the case that would wrap around it to protect the finish and provide pockets/straps to carry keyboard/mouse/headphones/etc. (I'm envisioning something like charww's original bag). I'm looking forward to getting my M1 carry bag but it looks kinda awkward getting the case out, with this design you would just undo the top flap and pull the case right out.
 
The handle is optional.

I'll definitely do some mockups with rectangular vents since they seem to be the most popular option.

I prefer the power button above the ports but if there is demand for the other way I can change it.
 
As someone who also intends to move this case around, I suppose that I can recognize the utility of a single, long handle.

Maybe you could keep the handle parallel to chassis depth (with respect to the front) and satisfy aesthetic desire by simply lowering the stance of the handle and running the handle along the entire chassis depth (i.e., one long, sleek handle).

How much complexity will the handle add to fabrication? Have you instead considered using straps or mounting a prefabricated handle?

Your travel harness idea sounds most excellent.
 
I'll experiment with different handle designs. The current one isn't set in stone.

I would rather have a solid handle than straps. It's not so much complexity as cost. I originally was going to use the MNPC Tech handles but there isn't enough clearance for a 120mm fan with those handles so that means something custom unless I can find an off the shelf one that is long enough to clear the fan and looks good.

I just have vague ideas for the harness, I'll develop it more later.
 
Aibohphobia said:
I prefer the power button above the ports but if there is demand for the other way I can change it.
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demand? so.. for whom do you work? what company are we helping under the disguise of some random [H] user developing a new case? or you plan to use us and then sell the design? hmmm?

Aibohphobia said:
I love my M1 (kudos to Necere and wahaha360 for the awesome case) due to it's small size and looks but there has been several times now where I've run low on memory despite having 16GB (curse you Photoshop and your voracious appetite for RAM!). Unfortunately it doesn't look like 32GB will be an option on Mini-ITX until Intel rolls out mainstream DDR4 support with Skylake.

With X99 and next-gen PCIe SSDs coming out later this year I started looking at a microATX build and the SG09/SG10 is pretty much the only game in town for a compact microATX case that I could find. At 23L it is very compact compared to everything else on the market, even smaller than some ITX cases (looking at you Prodigy) but having grown used to the M1 even that seemed too big. I don't need ATX support, or an ODD, or 3.5 mounts, so it seem like there was room to go smaller.
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I don't care what Aibohphobia does with the design so long as I can purchase one.

If you are so concerned of some conspiracy why not just reverse engineer all of the 3D models he has kindly shown us?

Anyway - I can't wait to pack my X99 in here.
 
D4rkn3ss said:
demand? so.. for whom do you work? what company are we helping under the disguise of some random [H] user developing a new case? or you plan to use us and then sell the design? hmmm?
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It's expensive getting just a few cases made so I need to make sure that the design appeals to enough people to bring the price per unit down to something reasonable.

My preference is for the power button to be above the USB ports but in the grand scheme of things it's a minor issue and if enough people feel feel otherwise that it would mean the difference between whether the case gets made or not, I'll change it.

Right now I'm just some dude on a forum working on this in his spare time, no evil mega-corporations involved. I'd like to sell enough of this design to fund development of some of my other case ideas but if just enough sell to cover costs and I can get one for myself, so be it.
 
xSDMx said:
I don't care what Aibohphobia does with the design so long as I can purchase one.

If you are so concerned of some conspiracy why not just reverse engineer all of the 3D models he has kindly shown us?

Anyway - I can't wait to pack my X99 in here.
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+1 ;)
 
Here's round holes in a rectangular pattern:

2014-05-07_vent-layout-test1.png


This is with 5mm holes (previous render was 3mm). I think the hole pattern needs to be denser but otherwise I'm liking it.

Tweaked the handle to match the proportions of the case better.

Tomorrow or Friday I'll try out rectangular slot vents.
 
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D4rkn3ss said:
so.. for whom do you work? what company are we helping under the disguise of some random [H] user developing a new case?
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Aibohphobia said:
Right now I'm just some dude on a forum working on this in his spare time, no evil mega-corporations involved.
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Yeah, I think the majority of manufacturers are simply too narrow-minded (or possibly too stupid) to bother crowd-sourcing a case idea in this manner.

However, I would wholeheartedly support any mfg that would be smart enough to actually do so. Giving the customers what they actually want, if possible, is a great idea and should be encouraged :)

EDIT:

Aibohphobia said:
Tomorrow or Friday I'll try out rectangular slot vents.
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Any reason why the side panel vents can't be extended more towards the front of the case? Just looks kinda weird that the top and side don't match. Also, the new handle looks a little tall imo.. sorta lunch-box'ish :D
 
IMHO, it would look best if the handle was long and low.

Instead of slats, what if the vents were zig-zagged?
 
xSDMx said:
IMHO, it would look best if the handle was long and low.
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+1. Maybe a curved arch handle would look nicer? Here's a crude photoshop..

dyYm5YI.jpg


Might be expensive to get custom machined, though. A cheaper idea that might look okay is to use a pair of thinner handles running parallel with maybe an inch between them (so you'd be grabbing both with one hand)..

FXj4MT8.jpg


http://mnpctech.com/pc-case-lan-party-gaming-carry-top-server-tower-handles/pc-bar-handles.html

Either way, I definitely prefer a solid handle over carrying straps.
 
AFD said:
Any reason why the side panel vents can't be extended more towards the front of the case? Just looks kinda weird that the top and side don't match. Also, the new handle looks a little tall imo.. sorta lunch-box'ish :D
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I have to agree with that although I know why Aiboh did it this way. First, there is the PSU. Second, there is the noise issue, which I agreed with too. Now that I see the case though, I think it would be better if the side vent matched the top.

In fact, I really really would like to see the vent being extended to the very bottom, of course leaving some frame around it just like the top vent. If you have time, please show us a model of this so we can confirm it would look better or worse. Appreciated as always :)
 
AFD said:
Any reason why the side panel vents can't be extended more towards the front of the case? Just looks kinda weird that the top and side don't match. Also, the new handle looks a little tall imo.. sorta lunch-box'ish :D
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No reason they can't, I didn't because it's just the side of the PSU under that part of the panel so it didn't need venting. I don't mind the current vent layout but I seem to be in the minority :p

I'll do a mockup this evening with the side vent all the way across to match the top.

Actually the handle is the same height as before, the new proportions just make it look taller. I have some other ideas for the handle I'll try out.

xSDMx said:
IMHO, it would look best if the handle was long and low.

Instead of slats, what if the vents were zig-zagged?
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The handle height is the same, about 27mm between the panel and the bottom of the handle. I think that may be cutting it close for someone with really big hands so if anything the height may need to increase slightly.

AFD said:
+1. Maybe a curved arch handle would look nicer? Here's a crude photoshop..

dyYm5YI.jpg


Might be expensive to get custom machined, though. A cheaper idea that might look okay is to use a pair of thinner handles running parallel with maybe an inch between them (so you'd be grabbing both with one hand)..

FXj4MT8.jpg


http://mnpctech.com/pc-case-lan-party-gaming-carry-top-server-tower-handles/pc-bar-handles.html

Either way, I definitely prefer a solid handle over carrying straps.
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Looks like a pretty good 'shop to me, even the perspective matches ;)

To me the smooth curved handle doesn't really go with the boxy case though. Also, like I've been saying, the height can't really go lower to allow room for people with big hands.

Having carried heavy stuff with two thin parallel handles I know I don't want to do that :p The smaller surface area causes the handles to dig into your hands. Even fully loaded the case wouldn't be all that heavy but I still want it to be fairly comfortable to carry, the use case I keep in mind is having to lug it from one end of a big airport to another.

theGryphon said:
I have to agree with that although I know why Aiboh did it this way. First, there is the PSU. Second, there is the noise issue, which I agreed with too. Now that I see the case though, I think it would be better if the side vent matched the top.

In fact, I really really would like to see the vent being extended to the very bottom, of course leaving some frame around it just like the top vent. If you have time, please show us a model of this so we can confirm it would look better or worse. Appreciated as always :)
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I don't think the extra venting towards the front will dramatically increase the noise leakage. All this hardware crammed in a small box will be fairly noisy at full load no matter what.

Part of the reason for the side vent's current layout is because the filter would be attached to the rad bracket. I'll try a render with full venting but unless I'm just blown away by how it looks I don't think it'll make it to production :)
 
Aibohphobia said:
I think that may be cutting it close for someone with really big hands so if anything the height may need to increase slightly.
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Sure.. you won't cater to the crazies that will inevitably cram 2 GPU cards in your case, but you'll accommodate the equally few guys (gals?) with incredibly large monster paws. Lol, j/k :D
 
AFD said:
Sure.. you won't cater to the crazies that will inevitably cram 2 GPU cards in your case, but you'll accommodate the equally few guys (gals?) with incredibly large monster paws. Lol, j/k :D
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Touché ;)

But according to this, the most popular men's ring size is 9 (19mm inside diameter) with size 8-14 (18.1mm-23.0mm dia) being the typical range.

That's for the ring finger though, if we add a few mm for the middle finger then 27mm between the panel and the handle is cutting it close even for average hands.
 
Aibohphobia said:
Part of the reason for the side vent's current layout is because the filter would be attached to the rad bracket. I'll try a render with full venting but unless I'm just blown away by how it looks I don't think it'll make it to production :)
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I think you'd love it! Look how good it looks on the Jonsbo V3+ ;)
1red.jpg


I think if you do this, both the side bracket and the fan filter can also be made a large full-coverage size. Rads/fans would install on one side of the bracket, and the full-coverage filter would install on the other side. Then, the side panel comes on top.

I've been advocating utilizing the bottom part of the side panel for something, you know to create more functionality and give more options to the user. With a full-coverage (and hinged) side bracket, you can give screw holes for
1) Two 2.5" drives (side-by-side), or
2) One 3.5" drive (which would void 120mm fans at the bottom, but there would be space for 92mm fans still), or
3) 3 x 92mm fans

I hope you catch my drift... It's all about giving options and creating more value out of the same space ;) And, it would look great too! :D
 
The full venting there on the Jonsbo doesn't look bad per se, but I still prefer the look of the M1 with just the upper part vented:

3df9166a_dsc01652e2cbw.jpeg


In the end I'm making this for myself, not strictly to turn a profit. While I don't feel that strongly about some design aspects (like whether the power button is above or below the USB ports) I am not sold on venting the whole panel. I recognize the utility it could provide (3.5 won't fit there with the current layout though) and I'll do a render to be safe, but I'm still leaning to venting just the upper part.
 
Maybe fully vented panels could be an option. Would you still want it even if the bracket stayed the same?

2014-05-08_vent-layout-test2.jpg


Actually cut the holes this time instead of cheating with black circles :)

If only Noctua made black and red fans, because some of those with this case in red and a Rampage V Gene would look amazing :D
 
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Now that looks good!!! :drool:

I guess Noctua knows what they're missing in terms of sales, but corporate identity can be more crucial than sales. Still, I do wish too that they'd be more creative with usage of their identity colors, mix it up a little, you know...

Anyway, yeah, I still think full-vented side panel would help the case airflow with a powerful GPU. Without the full vent, the air coming from the bottom fans will hit the GPU, heat up, and then have a hard time to escape. With full vent, that air escape to the side...

I do love this looks though. Maybe leave it like this and vent the other side too? That would help prevent hot air build-up too...
 
It does look very good in the renders, but I have to ask if you have taken into account how panels are cut or bent, because many of the sharp edges shown in the renders don't seem very feasible.
 
theGryphon said:
Now that looks good!!! :drool:

I guess Noctua knows what they're missing in terms of sales, but corporate identity can be more crucial than sales. Still, I do wish too that they'd be more creative with usage of their identity colors, mix it up a little, you know...

Anyway, yeah, I still think full-vented side panel would help the case airflow with a powerful GPU. Without the full vent, the air coming from the bottom fans will hit the GPU, heat up, and then have a hard time to escape. With full vent, that air escape to the side...

I do love this looks though. Maybe leave it like this and vent the other side too? That would help prevent hot air build-up too...
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Thanks, the more I see it in red the more I want it :p

Noctua has that industrial line coming out that's all black and the redux line that's grey, they just need a gamer line in red and black :D

Blower cards are recommended (if only AMD would come out with a good reference cooler :( ) but with non-reference coolers I would think that if the panel was fully vented the CPU would suck in a lot of the GPU exhaust. Anyway, it worked out on the M1 so I think it'll be fine here.

I think I'll reduce the hole size to 4mm diameter so it's less "transparent" and vent the other side too. It would help with the PSU intake too.

vipz said:
It does look very good in the renders, but I have to ask if you have taken into account how panels are cut or bent, because many of the sharp edges shown in the renders don't seem very feasible.
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I've tried to make sure the panels and frame are feasible to cut and bend. The real thing isn't intended to have perfect 90° corners, I just haven't modeled that much detail.

2014-05-09_panel-check.png
 
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Aibohphobia said:
I've thought of that but I want to keep the front nice and clean. One of my early designs had a beveled front panel with vents on the side like this but I scrapped it because it brought the volume to about 16L and I was aiming for sub 15L.

2014-04-26_alternate-front1.png

The vent layout is just temporary, I'll come up with something more aesthetically pleasing later

2014-04-26_alternate-front2.png


When I started I actually set 16L as the absolute upper limit. This design would be pushing it and if I can get away with less I will but I suspect I'll get outvoted :)
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Aibohphobia said:
Lian-Li is using some really bulky hinges in that video but there's plenty of compact ones available. Basic lift-off hinges should be fairly straightforward to implement:
2014-05-01_hinge-mockup-animation.gif
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The current box design is too generic. I really like the beveled design you considered earlier.

I think you could make that bevel functional by putting the basic IO and power button on it. This way people using dual gpu setups can have the option of laying this case on its front and have the air being vented vertically.

With this orientation the front fans that weren't really doing anything in your simulations might actually have an impact on air flow.


I was going to suggest considering a removable motherboard tray because the space really is tight but I think this is less warranted if you implement those hinges for the side panels.

As for the overall aesthetic the rectangular ventilation is great. I like the honeycomb look but I wouldn't mind seeing the above pic being the final look.

Since you have enough space for multiple rads at the bottom below the motherboard I think you should contemplate expanding the number of expansion brackets from 4 to 5. This would serve a very niche population but they do exist.
 
^ You have a point there. Looking at it again, that design had more character, and idk, maybe that alone is enough to overlook the added volume.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "lay it on its front" Did you mean "on its side"?

Considering the beveled design, maybe that extra volume can be put to some use... How about an option to install a slot load optical drive in front of the PSU?

If you make the side vents in the front a single thin slot opening (with beveled design), it would serve dual, no triple purpose: If the user wants to install an optical drive, that opening would be where the DVD is loaded. If not, then the user can reverse the PSU for it to take in air from outside! Or, two SSD's can be installed there! At the bottom of the front, there could be an option for a 120mm fan, or a 3.5" drive, or two 2.5" drives as it is now. From an engineering point of view, I love this multipurpose idea! :D

What do you guys think?

Edit: Aiboh, how far 25+25mm (rad+fan) go from the bottom? Does it void the third slot completely?
 
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mutantmagnet said:
The current box design is too generic. I really like the beveled design you considered earlier.

I think you could make that bevel functional by putting the basic IO and power button on it. This way people using dual gpu setups can have the option of laying this case on its front and have the air being vented vertically.

With this orientation the front fans that weren't really doing anything in your simulations might actually have an impact on air flow.


I was going to suggest considering a removable motherboard tray because the space really is tight but I think this is less warranted if you implement those hinges for the side panels.

As for the overall aesthetic the rectangular ventilation is great. I like the honeycomb look but I wouldn't mind seeing the above pic being the final look.

Since you have enough space for multiple rads at the bottom below the motherboard I think you should contemplate expanding the number of expansion brackets from 4 to 5. This would serve a very niche population but they do exist.
Click to expand...

How about etching some kind of pattern on the front panel so it's not so plain?

I was fine with the chamfer (apparently bevel refers something more like the end of a chisel) if it improved airflow but since the test results seemed to invalidate that configuration I'm hesitant to add that much volume to the case purely for aesthetics.

Not exactly sure what you mean by laying it on its front, do you mean having the rear connectors sticking up in the air like the FT03?

I thought about a removable mobo tray early on but the extra complexity didn't seem worth it.

A fifth slot would make sense for a few use cases but trying to be everything to everybody is why the cases like the Prodigy and 250D are so stupidly big for ITX. If there's enough demand I'll consider it.

theGryphon said:
^ You have a point there. Looking at it again, that design had more character, and idk, maybe that alone is enough to overlook the added volume.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "lay it on its front" Did you mean "on its side"?

Considering the beveled design, maybe that extra volume can be put to some use... How about an option to install a slot load optical drive in front of the PSU?

If you make the side vents in the front a single thin slot opening (with beveled design), it would serve dual, no triple purpose: If the user wants to install an optical drive, that opening would be where the DVD is loaded. If not, then the user can reverse the PSU for it to take in air from outside! Or, two SSD's can be installed there! At the bottom of the front, there could be an option for a 120mm fan, or a 3.5" drive, or two 2.5" drives as it is now. From an engineering point of view, I love this multipurpose idea! :D

What do you guys think?

Edit: Aiboh, how far 25+25mm (rad+fan) go from the bottom? Does it void the third slot completely?
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Since affordable slot-loading drives seem to be on the way out I'm very hesitant to add support for them to the case. I personally don't use ODDs so I wouldn't want a slot in the side panel for it (I paid extra to get the no ODD slot panel for my M1 :p) so that would mean offering two different panels. That wouldn't be too much of an issue in itself but if there are 4-5 color choices then that would be 8-10 possible combinations (and if we throw in a fully vented panel option on top of that it starts to get silly).

There's about 57mm between the bottom of the case to the bottom of a dual-slot card in the top slot AKA the third slot.
 
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^ Sure, no problem. I don't use ODD's either. It was just an idea, in case you decide to do that larger chamfer design.

I'm happy with the size of the case. Do you think you can do the corners a little bit chamfered without making the case larger? Even if it is for 10mm, it would change the looks...

So, there is plenty space for a 240x25mm rad plus 25mm fan. Nice!
Actually, I was counting the slots from the top, so I was referring to the second slot from the bottom :) Would it be totally blocked, or a very thin card can fit? Like a wifi card or something...
 
With the current panel design it'd be difficult to chamfer the front without a bunch of ugly seams (mostly where the top panel and bottom frame meet the side panels). I'll look into it though.

It's been a long day so here's a picture instead :)

2014-05-09_bottom-rad-fit-check1.png
 
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I think I'll go ahead and add that 5th expansion slot. It almost fits already since there is that clearance on the bottom for slim 120mm fans. I forgot about it but I'd already trimmed a little off the height a few days ago so adding the 5th slot would only increase the height to 281mm.

Dimensions: 281mm (H) x 170mm (W) x 324mm (D) = 15.5L

That means you could have a octo-core 2011-3 CPU and a Titan-Z with two slots left over in something smaller than the EVGA Hadron :D

Gryphon, that would also increase that dimension in the pic to 63mm.

Edit: Adding another few mm to the height would allow 120x25mm fans on the bottom, the width can go down to 168mm without issue (0.95mm steel panels instead of 2.54mm aluminum) so that would keep the volume at 15.5L. This adding a few mm here and there is dangerous to the case size though, do you think the extra height is worth it?
 
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Please, please don't make the case any larger for minor aesthetic or functional reasons.
 
Aibohphobia said:
This adding a few mm here and there is dangerous to the case size though, do you think the extra height is worth it?
Click to expand...

It's a slippery slope, my friend ;)

theGryphon said:
If you make the side vents in the front a single thin slot opening (with beveled design), it would serve dual, no triple purpose: If the user wants to install an optical drive, that opening would be where the DVD is loaded. If not, then the user can reverse the PSU for it to take in air from outside! Or, two SSD's can be installed there! At the bottom of the front, there could be an option for a 120mm fan, or a 3.5" drive, or two 2.5" drives as it is now. From an engineering point of view, I love this multipurpose idea! :D
Click to expand...

I didn't really like your open-slot idea at first, but if something like that could actually be used for all 3 purposes (PSU/120mm front intake, ODD slot, SSD/HDD space), then that would add an amazing amount of utility that would be worth the added dimension imo. Although, ODDs are on the way out, I'm really expecting a supply of slot-loads to remain on the market for at least a couple more years (at least the ones purchased and resold by Silverstone and EVGA).

That's one of the things I really love about the M1.. it makes great use of every possible square inch of the case, and almost every spot allows for different hardware configuration, depending on the user's need. Don't need an ODD? Bam, just slap some SSDs in there. Need a 3.5" drive, but want a 240 res? Pow, chuck that sucker on the bottom mount! A good SFF case can't feasibly be everything for everybody, but hopefully should provide the user with as much utility as possible in the smallest space allowed.
 
Aibohphobia said:
I think I'll go ahead and add that 5th expansion slot. It almost fits already since there is that clearance on the bottom for slim 120mm fans. I forgot about it but I'd already trimmed a little off the height a few days ago so adding the 5th slot would only increase the height to 281mm.

Dimensions: 281mm (H) x 170mm (W) x 324mm (D) = 15.5L

That means you could have a octo-core 2011-3 CPU and a Titan-Z with two slots left over in something smaller than the EVGA Hadron :D

Gryphon, that would also increase that dimension in the pic to 63mm.

Edit: Adding another few mm to the height would allow 120x25mm fans on the bottom, the width can go down to 168mm without issue (0.95mm steel panels instead of 2.54mm aluminum) so that would keep the volume at 15.5L. This adding a few mm here and there is dangerous to the case size though, do you think the extra height is worth it?
Click to expand...

That's great, so even the third slot will probably be open this way, and I think the added 3mm height (compared to before) is well worth it. I think you can drop the width to even 166mm.


AFD said:
I didn't really like your open-slot idea at first, but if something like that could actually be used for all 3 purposes (PSU/120mm front intake, ODD slot, SSD/HDD space), then that would add an amazing amount of utility that would be worth the added dimension imo. Although, ODDs are on the way out, I'm really expecting a supply of slot-loads to remain on the market for at least a couple more years (at least the ones purchased and resold by Silverstone and EVGA).

That's one of the things I really love about the M1.. it makes great use of every possible square inch of the case, and almost every spot allows for different hardware configuration, depending on the user's need. Don't need an ODD? Bam, just slap some SSDs in there. Need a 3.5" drive, but want a 240 res? Pow, chuck that sucker on the bottom mount! A good SFF case can't feasibly be everything for everybody, but hopefully should provide the user with as much utility as possible in the smallest space allowed.
Click to expand...

This was my thinking exactly, creating most value from even the smallest space.

Aiboh, you said the chamfered design would add another 15mm, right? Is that accurate?

If you drop the width to 166mm (barely letting the 140XL in), and add 15mm to depth to 339mm, then you have a 281x166x339 = 15.81L case.

Just saying ;)

I agree though, the case should not get any bigger than 16L. If possible, trim a little more from the top, leaving space for only 15mm fans. That top clearance seems to not contribute much, imho... Also, instead of an elaborate fan bracket on the top, maybe a simpler design, like the case lips being extended (like the top of Bitfenix Prodigy) may help. Actually, there seems to be space for two 120mm fans on top like Prodigy. Allow for two 120x15mm fans, and some mm's should be saved, no?

Edit: Hmm, the power cable may not let the second fan on top, idk...
 
xSDMx said:
Please, please don't make the case any larger for minor aesthetic or functional reasons.
Click to expand...

I'm with you there, any size increase will have to be well justified. The little extra height for a extra slot seems worthwhile though. With a board like the Rampage IV Gene (hopefully the V will keep the same slot layout) which has a full x16 slot on the bottom you could have a single high-end video card with 3 slots left over for a WiFi card, PCIe SSD, and sound card for example.

On the other hand with the height trimmed to 275mm the volume would be 15.0L :cool:

AFD said:
It's a slippery slope, my friend ;)

I didn't really like your open-slot idea at first, but if something like that could actually be used for all 3 purposes (PSU/120mm front intake, ODD slot, SSD/HDD space), then that would add an amazing amount of utility that would be worth the added dimension imo. Although, ODDs are on the way out, I'm really expecting a supply of slot-loads to remain on the market for at least a couple more years (at least the ones purchased and resold by Silverstone and EVGA).

That's one of the things I really love about the M1.. it makes great use of every possible square inch of the case, and almost every spot allows for different hardware configuration, depending on the user's need. Don't need an ODD? Bam, just slap some SSDs in there. Need a 3.5" drive, but want a 240 res? Pow, chuck that sucker on the bottom mount! A good SFF case can't feasibly be everything for everybody, but hopefully should provide the user with as much utility as possible in the smallest space allowed.
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I'll definitely play around with alternate mounting options but I think ODD will be difficult. I just realized that even with extra space up front the only way for a ODD to fit without running into the front IO is to be mounted with the slot facing up like the M1 but it would have to be offset almost all the way to the side.

theGryphon said:
That's great, so even the third slot will probably be open this way, and I think the added 3mm height (compared to before) is well worth it. I think you can drop the width to even 166mm.

This was my thinking exactly, creating most value from even the smallest space.

Aiboh, you said the chamfered design would add another 15mm, right? Is that accurate?

If you drop the width to 166mm (barely letting the 140XL in), and add 15mm to depth to 339mm, then you have a 281x166x339 = 15.81L case.

Just saying ;)

I agree though, the case should not get any bigger than 16L. If possible, trim a little more from the top, leaving space for only 15mm fans. That top clearance seems to not contribute much, imho... Also, instead of an elaborate fan bracket on the top, maybe a simpler design, like the case lips being extended (like the top of Bitfenix Prodigy) may help. Actually, there seems to be space for two 120mm fans on top like Prodigy. Allow for two 120x15mm fans, and some mm's should be saved, no?

Edit: Hmm, the power cable may not let the second fan on top, idk...
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15mm is about the minimum distance I would want between the panel and the front intake fan. I never did test it with a PSU but you can try it yourself, hold a flat panel in front of a fan's intake and you'll notice that within a certain distance there is a sharp increase in noise.

166mm may not be enough though if you run just a single fan it would fit with room to spare ;)

The bracket is mostly for the handle to mount to, the fan mount is a bonus :)

That height savings I gained a few days ago was from only allowing easy clearance for a 15mm fan on top. You can see in that earlier pic that a 25mm fan is practically touching the VRM heatsink on that motherboard.

A second top fan would indeed interfere with the power cord.

For fun here's a render comparing the 275mm height version against everybody's favorite handled SFF case:

2014-05-09_size-comparison1.png


Not sure what's up with the light spot in the middle though.
 
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How about moving the front IO down a bit to leave space for the ODD? I've been thinking that the current placement is a bit uneasy on the eyes. I rather have it all the way down :)

I'm not saying you have to do the chamfered design, but if you do, I think the additional volume would be justified with added functionality.... and looks! ;)

Great renders btw! :cool:

Edit: So, alright, minimum width is 168mm. Depth is either 324 or 339. Height is I guess 281mm. So, that's either 15.30L, or sharp 16.00L ;)
 
So, how is the top panel gonna install? It seems like it's gonna slide back to front and then hold something at the front and then thumbscrew at the back, is that correct? Just trying to see how the panels will come together.

I was thinking if we need the bracket on the top at all, and whether the handle and fan can attach directly on the top panel, which would have to be thicker, and would need to very securely attach to the frame. Any thoughts?
 
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