Why there isn't any revolution in PC Speakers

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maverick786us

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I've been member of this thread for almost 8 years, I own Corsair SP2500 speakers, that are good. Although with my current specs the quality is average and maybe once I build a high end Haswell build with ASUS Z87 chipset mobo, the sound quality might enhance.

I always admire Corsair sound system. I love my PC speakers and Corsair 5100 headset that uses USB. Why Corsair hasen't released any 5.1 version of its speakers?

In fact in these threads, I have never seen any high end speakers. Logitech is more of LogiCRAP.

Are the manufacturers not serious about good quality high end PC speakers?
 
Hrm, idk. Some speaker companies tailor some of their products towards "desktop use".
I've heard good things about products from:

- Swan
- Audioengine
- M-Audio
- B&W

Logitech and other brands seem to be tailored more to the low to mid-range... they aren't bad for the price, but they're still middle of the road. Klipsch is maybe on the better end of "PC Speakers". Some of their sets are pretty well-reviewed (ProMedia 5.1)
Bose is over-priced (mid-range speakers at high-range price), but at least what I've heard from the Companion or Music Monitor (especially for the size) series isn't as bad as people make it out to be (or at least to my ears, it sounds good... everyone hears differently, it seems)

A lot of people just get a receiver/DAC and get a pair of bookshelf speakers (Polk, or many other brands) or monitors. I'm currently using Behringer MS-16s, and for a 2.0 set they are not bad at all. I use them mostly for music or other 2-channel sources. I have no interest in 5.1 sound... considering 2.1 at some point, but bookshelf/monitor speakers have decent bass anyway.
 
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maverick786us said:
I've been member of this thread for almost 8 years, I own Corsair SP2500 speakers, that are good. Although with my current specs the quality is average and maybe once I build a high end Haswell build with ASUS Z87 chipset mobo, the sound quality might enhance.

I always admire Corsair sound system. I love my PC speakers and Corsair 5100 headset that uses USB. Why Corsair hasen't released any 5.1 version of its speakers?

In fact in these threads, I have never seen any high end speakers. Logitech is more of LogiCRAP.

Are the manufacturers not serious about good quality high end PC speakers?
Click to expand...

There are plenty of high end speakers out there. Speakers and amplifiers do need to specifically be made for computers..
 
I think the market for pc 5.1 speakers has dried up,

the economy is different ...I think more gamers have to whether they want to or not use headphones, living at home with their folks / roommates / apartments ...any number of scenarios in which gaming with speakers may well get you kicked out / killed :rolleyes:


those that can actually game with speakers will likely use a AVR and 5.1 HT speaker setups to do it.


I had a surround speaker set up for 10years and could properly set up the surrounds for about 2yrs of that time...lol..


but I think the 5.1 type speakers set ups are probably mainly HT type setups now...

if broke HTiB

or if you have 500~ish

Pioneer SP-BS21LR (or 41s or whatever) + center +sub (looking at newegg prices for 5.1 setup of pioneers $380~ish before tax and shipping and about $100~ (cheapest refurb AVR @ accessories for less

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...3-5.1ch-home-theater-receiver-3d-ready/1.html

certainly you could spend more (or maybe less hitting the used market) but if you want higher end the point is still start looking at HT stuff.
 
Probably because there isn't a market for it. Audiophiles can already get high end audio equipment. High end 'computer speakers' is redundant. Probably the target audience would already buy separate components and know that 'high end computer speakers' would be more of a gimmick than anything.
 
But people who want to enjoy high end gaming do need high end speakers. Even if you are watching movies where you connect your desktop to TV using HDMI, you can always enjoy the excellent sound effect.

As far as PC gaming is alive, there should always be a need for high end PC speakers. Strange, I don't know, an HTIB which is not designed for PC, how much it can it refine the output generated by a PC, if you are using good soundcard or your mobo has good onboard sound. Can you get the those details in an HTIB?

I might be wrong, but using an HTIB instead of PC speakers is like using a TV instead of a good quality PC monitor for gaming.
 
maverick786us said:
But people who want to enjoy high end gaming do need high end speakers. Even if you are watching movies where you connect your desktop to TV using HDMI, you can always enjoy the excellent sound effect.

As far as PC gaming is alive, there should always be a need for high end PC speakers. Strange, I don't know, an HTIB which is not designed for PC, how much it can it refine the output generated by a PC, if you are using good soundcard or your mobo has good onboard sound. Can you get the those details in an HTIB?

I might be wrong, but using an HTIB instead of PC speakers is like using a TV instead of a good quality PC monitor for gaming.
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Yes, you are wrong. Speakers are speakers, doesn't matter if they are called computer speakers or home cinema speakers of whatever. Generally computer speakers have their own AMP usually built into the subwoofer or they are active speakers, come with their own power supply.

There are a number of reasons why there is no high end gaming speakers. The big one is that gaming doesn't need high end speakers. Those people who are in a situation where they are using their gaming computer for music listening and watching movies, they already have purchased either a good pair of headphones or a separate speaker and amp/receiver system.

And the other reason of course is the HTIB systems. Any decent HTIB system will be more than good enough for gaming.
 
Computer speakers are for casuals!

I like gaming with big, loud speakers and I gave up on computer or PC speakers years ago. They're fine at lower volumes, but because they are typically designed to be compact, they're not that great. I went from a Logitech Z-5500 5.1 computer speaker set, which was decent and had a good sub for a computer speaker set, to an Onkyo 7.1 HTiB (HT-S5100) which was a little better, and then I upgraded my living room AV receiver and moved the old living room AV receiver to the computer and upgraded the speakers and sub at the computer.

I think that computer speakers are fine for if you just need to get sound out of a computer, but if you really want to enjoy the sound coming from your computer then you need to look beyond computer speakers. If you want good music-listening speakers, look at some active studio monitors but if you want something for gaming then either get a good HTiB setup (I like Onkyo's HTiB packages) or just buy an HDMI receiver and buy the individual speakers you want.

What it comes down to is space, money, and how loud you can be without angering neighbors.
 
djoye said:
Computer speakers are for casuals!

I like gaming with big, loud speakers and I gave up on computer or PC speakers years ago. They're fine at lower volumes, but because they are typically designed to be compact, they're not that great. I went from a Logitech Z-5500 5.1 computer speaker set, which was decent and had a good sub for a computer speaker set, to an Onkyo 7.1 HTiB (HT-S5100) which was a little better, and then I upgraded my living room AV receiver and moved the old living room AV receiver to the computer and upgraded the speakers and sub at the computer.

I think that computer speakers are fine for if you just need to get sound out of a computer, but if you really want to enjoy the sound coming from your computer then you need to look beyond computer speakers. If you want good music-listening speakers, look at some active studio monitors but if you want something for gaming then either get a good HTiB setup (I like Onkyo's HTiB packages) or just buy an HDMI receiver and buy the individual speakers you want.

What it comes down to is space, money, and how loud you can be without angering neighbors.
Click to expand...

This. If you want high end sound you are gonna have to look at true high end speakers or building your on. The home speaker DIY market is pretty large and you can build your own speakers cheaper than you can buy them. It's not always practical on a computer desk though so that route isn't always for everybody. But you can always go with a quality 3 or 4 inch full range driver in a small box and those would fit pretty well and sound better than any 2.1 set of PC speakers. Tang Band makes a set of 3" bamboo full range drivers that I love. They've got a 4" version that sounds even better. Either of these in a small cabinet would work very well and you wouldn't have to mess with a crossover

I've always wanted to throw something in a Scanspeak flavor together with a proper receiver/amp and a good powered sub. One day I will.
 
The nature of speakers (or any transducer, really) is that diminishing gains are severe past certain relatively low price points.

Speakers are a solved problem. Manufacturers largely know how to make completely adequate speakers for astonishingly little money. Buy a set that suits your budget, taking care not to spend more than necessary, and enjoy them until they stop working. If you're looking for a revolution — don't. There isn't going to be one.
 
Many manufacturers tried in the past: Logitech Z series 5.1 THX, Klipsch ProMedia 5.1, Creative had a high-end offering...to name a few. They hung on for a while, but ultimately failed because they were expensive: $350+ for computer speakers when the next tier down 5.1 set from the same brand was a fourth of the cost (or even less), and those were often a better speaker system than what they were running for their televisions (if they even had more than the built in TV's built-in speakers). On top of that, many people just didn't want to mess with (or didn't have adequate space around their desk) properly setting up a 5.1 speaker system in order to get the best results out of their expenditure.
 
the term "High End" is used very loosely in the PC world. If Logitech systems are considered high end or even mid level then really what is entry level.

In reality fitting large high end bookself speakers with quality pre and power amp is out of the question for 99.9% out there for their pc. Let alone the cost of a true high end system is far more than any high end pc.
 
I think one of the major factors is the move toward consoles and laptops.

Out of the universe of people playing games, those who want a serious setup for their PC are a small minority and many of those will just go with a receiver and a sub/speakers.

I'm one of those that really likes good PC surround - so much I built my own rear speaker booms that fold up when I need them out of the way. The thing is, I had to do it all my self because what I wanted was so abnormal that I couldn't even find any examples on the internet.
 
genkifd said:
the term "High End" is used very loosely in the PC world. If Logitech systems are considered high end or even mid level then really what is entry level.

In reality fitting large high end bookself speakers with quality pre and power amp is out of the question for 99.9% out there for their pc. Let alone the cost of a true high end system is far more than any high end pc.
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Agreed, but those were "high-end" speaker systems for those particular computer accessory makers, especially compared to their standard or entry level offerings.
 
The people who are saying "no market" have it right. Most gamers just have no fucks to give about sound, it seems. I mean I'll see pictures of setups with 6 high end monitors, quad video cards driving it, and then two shit little speakers, tossed under the screens at off angles.

When that's the majority of the people, well, making a product doesn't make much sense.

So instead those of us that want high end sound turn to the pro audio world or the home theater world. Both have solutions that work nicely for computers, and that start around the level where PC speakers stop and go all the way up to OMGWTFBBQ expensive.

So if you want good sound on your computer, those are the markets to explore. Pro speakers, usually called "monitors" are good if you want something where the amp is built in the speaker and also generally that are designed to sit close to you. Home theater speakers are better if you want to move them further away, and want to choose your own equipment. Also pro speakers tend to be more focused around 2.0 or 2.1 setups and HT speakers tend to be more focused around 5.1/7.1 setups.

Personally, I'm a fan of home theater speakers. I have a nice 7.1 HT setup hooked to my computer and I love it. Just be warned, you can spend a lot on good sound :). My sound setup cost more than the entire rest of my computer components combined.
 
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DoubleTap said:
I think one of the major factors is the move toward consoles and laptops.

Out of the universe of people playing games, those who want a serious setup for their PC are a small minority and many of those will just go with a receiver and a sub/speakers.

I'm one of those that really likes good PC surround - so much I built my own rear speaker booms that fold up when I need them out of the way. The thing is, I had to do it all my self because what I wanted was so abnormal that I couldn't even find any examples on the internet.
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I saw your speaker booms. I was looking for something like that in the past but I think my rear speakers are too big for them. I ended up building some ugly wall mounting system because I didn't want them on the floor.

pc71.jpg


I have a combination of Sony and Onkyo speakers for my surrounds, I need to cave in and buy some better (same model) surround speakers.
 
reaper12 said:
Yes, you are wrong. Speakers are speakers, doesn't matter if they are called computer speakers or home cinema speakers of whatever. Generally computer speakers have their own AMP usually built into the subwoofer or they are active speakers, come with their own power supply.

There are a number of reasons why there is no high end gaming speakers. The big one is that gaming doesn't need high end speakers. Those people who are in a situation where they are using their gaming computer for music listening and watching movies, they already have purchased either a good pair of headphones or a separate speaker and amp/receiver system.

And the other reason of course is the HTIB systems. Any decent HTIB system will be more than good enough for gaming.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. That is not "the big one".

The "big" reason is that 90%+ of the population not only have inflicted hearing damage upon themselves...but also that most people cannot tell the difference between a good pair and bad pair of speakers or headphones if their lives depended on it. They have no ear training, and cannot hear shit.

So long as it is *loud* and the bass is so ridiculously overdriven to cause earthquakes lay people that make up 90%+ of the population will think anything sounds "good".


That is why there is no revolution in high-end PC speaker setups. There's no need. Most consumers will buy any audio snake oil out there, and be taken and be taken for their money...and quite happily.
 
I still use my logitech z680s they are 5.1 they are like 10 years old

and why would there be? PC sound card can connect to any home theater reciver and or pretty much any kind of speaker system. the pc versions are just smaller ones of those and sometimes have a 3.5mm jack that can be converted with an adapter anyway,.
 
djoye said:
I saw your speaker booms. I was looking for something like that in the past but I think my rear speakers are too big for them. I ended up building some ugly wall mounting system because I didn't want them on the floor.
Click to expand...

There are commercial solutions for that kind of thing, they are just expensive. You can get stage lighting/speaker stands with cross bars from Ultimate Support, Oddesy, or companies like that. If the speakers are heavy you have to put a counter weight on them though.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. Is it possible to keep my Corsair SP2500 and additionally connect some good HTIB like Onkyo to experience great sound quality effect?
 
maverick786us said:
I've been member of this thread for almost 8 years, I own Corsair SP2500 speakers, that are good. Although with my current specs the quality is average and maybe once I build a high end Haswell build with ASUS Z87 chipset mobo, the sound quality might enhance.

I always admire Corsair sound system. I love my PC speakers and Corsair 5100 headset that uses USB. Why Corsair hasen't released any 5.1 version of its speakers?

In fact in these threads, I have never seen any high end speakers. Logitech is more of LogiCRAP.

Are the manufacturers not serious about good quality high end PC speakers?
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as 'high end PC speakers'. You can get a pair of high-end active monitors and that's it. Nothing high-end will be labeled as 'PC' something.
 
Assembling own speakers might be a complicated job. I've seen some HTIB from Onkya, it is so expensive, that if I buy a new gaming rig, it will cost me less than these HTIBs.

Can someone suggest me an HTIB, with heavy speakers, those speakers should have details, where a slightest sound can be heard?

Example:

1) My Corsair SP 2500 speakers are amazing. But afterall, these are small speakers. There are occasions, when I hear as if the woofer is creating bursting sound, but that is the only case with iTunes, where I have to keep the volume around 50%.

2) In Crysis Warhead, the last mission, before entering the airbase, I can't hear with the sound of rain and lightening with my speakers, but can clearly hear it with my Corsair 1500 gaming headset.

So is there any economical HTIB, through which I can clearly hear the rain lightening, and I should'nt feel that woofer is creating any burt sound while playing, itunes? I am looking for something that should create 3D sound and REALISTIC effect. For me neighbours are not an issue. Space is up to some extent, but I will use those speaker pipes
 
maverick786us said:
Assembling own speakers might be a complicated job. I've seen some HTIB from Onkya, it is so expensive, that if I buy a new gaming rig, it will cost me less than these HTIBs.

Can someone suggest me an HTIB, with heavy speakers, those speakers should have details, where a slightest sound can be heard?

Example:

1) My Corsair SP 2500 speakers are amazing. But afterall, these are small speakers. There are occasions, when I hear as if the woofer is creating bursting sound, but that is the only case with iTunes, where I have to keep the volume around 50%.

2) In Crysis Warhead, the last mission, before entering the airbase, I can't hear with the sound of rain and lightening with my speakers, but can clearly hear it with my Corsair 1500 gaming headset.

So is there any economical HTIB, through which I can clearly hear the rain lightening, and I should'nt feel that woofer is creating any burt sound while playing, itunes? I am looking for something that should create 3D sound and REALISTIC effect. For me neighbours are not an issue. Space is up to some extent, but I will use those speaker pipes
Click to expand...

Any regular home theater setup works for that. If you buy anything cheap or anything labeled with 'PC' you're going to get utter crap and you waste your money. Just face it, if you want surround you're going to have to spend a minimum of 2,5 times the money you would spend to a stereo setup. Probably a bit more.
 
B00nie said:
Any regular home theater setup works for that. If you buy anything cheap or anything labeled with 'PC' you're going to get utter crap and you waste your money. Just face it, if you want surround you're going to have to spend a minimum of 2,5 times the money you would spend to a stereo setup. Probably a bit more.
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Can you provide me some examples?
 
There are "high end" PC speakers. They're just not easy to find and wont be at the local big box and may or may not be on amazon. They are usually called multimedia but they are designed for the desktop space for the most part

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/powered-speakers/Alpha-PS1-Powered-Speaker
http://www.paradigm.com/products-current/type=bookshelf-powered/model=a2/page=overview
http://www.focal.com/en/focal-xs-21/266-focal-xs-21-3544050690257.html
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Computer-Speakers/MM-1/overview.html
http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/digital_music_solutions/x_300a/x_300a/index.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/computer-speakers
https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/audio-core-200/6/
http://www.avihifi.co.uk/products.html
http://www.eclipse-td.net/products/td-m1/
http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/products/airstream/ws100/
http://www.vanatoo.com/
 
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wonderfield said:
The nature of speakers (or any transducer, really) is that diminishing gains are severe past certain relatively low price points.

Speakers are a solved problem. Manufacturers largely know how to make completely adequate speakers for astonishingly little money. Buy a set that suits your budget, taking care not to spend more than necessary, and enjoy them until they stop working. If you're looking for a revolution — don't. There isn't going to be one.
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I don't agree with this at all.

There is a chasm of difference between a high end audiophile setup and some "adequate" 2.1 PC speakers. And although these days you can get a hell of a lot for your money, the diminishing returns are not that severe..
 
matteos said:
There is a chasm of difference between a high end audiophile setup and some "adequate" 2.1 PC speakers. And although these days you can get a hell of a lot for your money, the diminishing returns are not that severe..
Click to expand...
By what measures are the differences "chasmic"?
 
maverick786us said:
Can you provide me some examples?
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Sure but you'd have to name your price range first. Martin Logan makes quite nice surround setups for example.

As for 'speakers being solved problems' I cracked up totally lol! There's nothing 'solved' in the speaker-room interaction. In anechoid chamber, yes, it's a solved problem. The problem is we don't live in anechoid chambers.
 
B00nie said:
There's nothing 'solved' in the speaker-room interaction.
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That is why I said speakers are a solved problem. What happens when you place transducers in a room is an entirely different domain of problems, solved orthogonally to transducers.
 
wonderfield said:
That is why I said speakers are a solved problem. What happens when you place transducers in a room is an entirely different domain of problems, solved orthogonally to transducers.
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You left the impression that there's little to gain after relatively cheap price level. The reality is that nothing could be further from the truth. Relatively good sounding speakers start at 1000 bucks a pair and sky is the limit.
 
I imagine I left that impression because that's essentially what I said, and not in error.
 
wonderfield said:
I imagine I left that impression because that's essentially what I said, and not in error.
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Well then like I said, you are quite incorrect. Speakers are the most difficult components to get right in the audio system. And typically the most expensive part of the setup too.
 
Hmm. This thread does not jive with my experiences nor does it match what I would consider general best practices for accurate nearfield playback (what you generally want out of PC speakers). You don't need to spend $1000 to get accurate low-distortion nearfield sound. You probably don't want martin logan speakers either. I assume we were talking electrostats? They'd be weird nearfield.

There's a reason monitors are constructed the way they are - front ported with low fatigue, low distortion high frequency drivers. Generally they are or should be using more sensitive drivers. Frequency response is important as well, more so than with home audio speakers. This is why computer users typically go with monitor-type speakers. They're designed for near field use and it eliminates some of the mess of using .

Your ears fatigue from odd order hamonics in the midrange and top end. High frequency distortion is usually the worst. To play lower, the smaller speakers (even the TB full ranges) sacrifice distortion characteristics. This makes them inaccurate, sometimes muddy in the bass range due to distortion from trying to play low. The generic computer speaker uses a small poorly damped cabinet with a marginal midrange driver and a tweeter. Then they include a sub. The cabinets + speaker just can't produce proper midbass punch. For example, the Swan M10's lose directionality in the midbass region and lack low bass. Larger speakers like tower speakers or electrostats wouldn't really physically work that close to your head. Sure you could put your desk in the middle of the room and keep the speakers optimally placed from the wall but that'd be odd.


It's worth reading up on Zaph or some of the other speaker design sites out there. There isn't really a need for high end computer speakers, you just get monitors or passive bookshelf speakers that work well in nearfield. Floorstanders and other exotic designs like larger horn loaded full range speakers won't really work for the environment.



B00nie said:
Sure but you'd have to name your price range first. Martin Logan makes quite nice surround setups for example.

As for 'speakers being solved problems' I cracked up totally lol! There's nothing 'solved' in the speaker-room interaction. In anechoid chamber, yes, it's a solved problem. The problem is we don't live in anechoid chambers.
Click to expand...

Do you mean anechoic?

If so, speakers sound bad to human ears in anechoic chambers. Psychoacoustics screw it up. Your brain expects some room sound. Without it, everything sounds dull and false. It's like wearing very strange headphones.
 
in general anyone who speaks in absolutes about audio stuff...isn't personally anyone I want to take advice from or listen to really at all...or if i do listen it will be with my bs filter set on maximum..

part of the reason there are a billion different speaker designs is that there is no one right speaker for everyone's ears or room or budget or needs.

If anyone wants to think no speakers sound good till you hit the $1000 price point good on them, in my listening to speakers costing from $50 to $10,000 plus (new) i've heard $100~ speakers I liked a lot and $5,000 speakers they could certainly keep for all i cared.


some would argue only absolute accuracy maters... making sure what comes from the speakers is as close to what was recorded as possible ... however to many such a speaker would be zero fun to listen to...

to my mind snobs and absolutists should be ignored ...really it should be about enjoying listening so if you are enjoying you $40 thrift-store stereo or you pc speakers so be it..

I have heard some pc speaker sets I could see enjoy listening to... none I honestly thought WOW... but some that were very decent...

but it ultimately doesn't matter to me what anyone else likes nor should it particularly matter to anyone else what I like ..or anyone else likes


right now I'm "saving the planet" :rolleyes: using 4watts listening to a pair of Realistic Minimus 77's I paid $10 for and a $60~ish SMSL SA-S3 T-amp and I am about as happy as can be ...

if it sounds good (to you) it is good if anyone else don't like it f*** em' that is my view
 
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