Really? You're assuming that we won't have to pay for electricity; this world is a giant business and the people who end up controlling the technology will be the ones to profit from it. Certainly won't be a charity thing. And again, Bitcoin is not "infinite". There is a limited amount that can be made.
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Mt. Gox Sued Over Bitcoin Losses
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Really? You're assuming that we won't have to pay for electricity; this world is a giant business and the people who end up controlling the technology will be the ones to profit from it. Certainly won't be a charity thing. And again, Bitcoin is not "infinite". There is a limited amount that can be made.
kirbyrj
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That wasn't my point was it...people made money in Diablo 3 as well selling make believe stuff...some even thought they were going to make a living out of it...ha!Look at it now. This to will pass like a fart in the wind.
If it does it does, and if it doesn't it doesn't. My point is there's no reason to bash the system when there is clearly money to be made doing it. The casualty is the PC enthusiast wanting a good graphics card for cheap. But lets face it, if I buy that card for $600 and it makes $10 a day, in 2 months, its paid for and every month after that it's profit.
In 6 months if it stops being profitable, you'll be able to buy whatever graphics card you want.
CounTDookU23
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So here are my noob questions.
- If they were encrypted and popped back in to the system they would be flagged right
- from what I read there are only so many bit coins and each one is unique, no?
- why cant they just issue those bit coins over to these people who lost?
My thinking is that if they all of a sudden disappeared off the system, why can't they just be issued back to the point where the trading was stopped.
- If they were encrypted and popped back in to the system they would be flagged right
- from what I read there are only so many bit coins and each one is unique, no?
- why cant they just issue those bit coins over to these people who lost?
My thinking is that if they all of a sudden disappeared off the system, why can't they just be issued back to the point where the trading was stopped.
Retronym
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if karpeles lives another two months i'm going to be pretty impressed.
Well, if it doesn't have any value it should be pretty easy for them to come up with a bunch of it to replace what they lost right?
Just sayin'
CounTDookU23
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Thats what my thinking is. If the holder of the coin holds some sort of key for that coin..... couldnt all transactions of that encrypted coin be traced through the sytems? And if those coins pop in to the system, wouldn't the date for that coin be flagged?
CounTDookU23
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Errr Data for the coin **** wont let me edit.
Retronym
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Criticism of the efficacy of bitcoin as a source of income loses most of its validity if its based off of nothing more than a supply/demand metric of a particular hobby. Their hobby became more expensive, as parts are now scarcer. Thats life, deal with it. But no, that won't cut it, so lets paint with a broad brush and proclaim everyone involved globally in something with a multi-billion dollar market cap wrong! They should not be creating disruptive new technology, removing barriers to entry for people all over the world for a very real need. "Bah, its stupid, and you're stupid for wasting your time doing it".
But no, we are the idiots.
Hubris at its finest.
atp1916
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Bitcoin will never be regulated financially, and law enforcement oversight as a derivative of that financial regulation will never happen either.
However, bitcoin certainly needs law enforcement oversight from the context of upholding social contract theory. If you steal (and it is proven), you go to jail. Period.
However, bitcoin certainly needs law enforcement oversight from the context of upholding social contract theory. If you steal (and it is proven), you go to jail. Period.
I swear, there should be some sort of consequence to rambling about something that you know nothing about.
That's not how it works. The supply is fixed, regardless of the amount of mining.
There are 25 bitcoins created every 10 minutes. It doesn't increase with more miners. Miners are only paid their share based on the # of calculations they do.
The only thing I do agree with is that it s fucking stupid and wasteful system. The calculations are a waste of electricity (artificially difficult)
It's not BitCoin that is rising against the USD, it's USD that's crashing against the BitCoin.
And the people crying over their bitcoin vanishing in the middle of the night are the same people declaring "you're missing the boat if you don't overpay for a gpu right now!"
Sorry guys, but the only ones missing anything are the suckers who believe this unbacked, unregulated, uninsured currency is worth something.
pretty much every collector of any sort of item are suckers then too.
a baseball card or comic book worth $1000 is no different than a bitcoin. they are both valued at what someone else is willing to pay for it.
if no one wants it they become worthless like the money you used to "trade" for it becomes worthless if no one wants it.
apparently someone didnt want that USD nearly as much as that comic book same thing applies to crypto currency someone is willing to get rid of their USD or other tradeable goods to get a bitcoin.
what that person plans to do with the bitcoin doesnt really matter because you can achieve the same end with any other item in world because the world is based on trading.
doesnt matter if it is a comic book, a brick or a stick or food or even the air you breathe under water to go scuba diving. if someone wants it they will trade something you want for it. do you call scuba divers idiots for paying for a tank filled with air... they pretty much just paid for nothing...
"
everything is just trading. the government just likes to say you "bought" something so they get their share in taxes from government issued trading materials.
I've made hundreds off that currency that you imply is worth nothing. I believed. It was.
But nobody is trying to replace trading cards with power grid sucking electronic ones because your mad the man has to have his cut of the $1,000 to help keep the government running, and tin foil hat paranoids want to keep the transactions secret.
You should retire then...
obviously you have been out of the loop.
there are plenty of electronic trading card games.
even steam has electronic trading cards lol.
atp1916
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Keep flippen' those burgers, kiddo.
Back on topic - The downfall of Gox is an opportunity for the bitcoin community at large to unshackle its image from the anarchist / extreme libertarian fringe groups that have hijacked the point of the currency.
LOL....I probably make more in a month than you do in a year...
But I do agree the community needs to unshackle.
http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/...aking-baseball-cards-digital-without-the-gum/
they are doing what ever thay can to take it digital and still make money doing so, obviously its less collector friendly but well thats as it should be with anything digital its easier to get for free what you want in a digital world.
people still put value on that digital content if they pay for it. just like people put value on digital cards for magic the gathering or other card based electronic games. even tho there is no physical item.
how is a bitcoin any different. someone places a vlaue in it and wants it so they pay what they feel it is worth. if you are someone that has no self control and just hops on a train because everyone else is then that is your problem not the person making money off you in the process.
and being bitter because you missed the train or lost all your money buying the train ticket is not my problem lol.
they are doing what ever thay can to take it digital and still make money doing so, obviously its less collector friendly but well thats as it should be with anything digital its easier to get for free what you want in a digital world.
people still put value on that digital content if they pay for it. just like people put value on digital cards for magic the gathering or other card based electronic games. even tho there is no physical item.
how is a bitcoin any different. someone places a vlaue in it and wants it so they pay what they feel it is worth. if you are someone that has no self control and just hops on a train because everyone else is then that is your problem not the person making money off you in the process.
and being bitter because you missed the train or lost all your money buying the train ticket is not my problem lol.
I waded through this thread actually hoping to learn a bit more about Bitcoin. Sadly, about the only thing I learned from most of the Bitcoin defenders (for lack of a better term) is they have some pretty terrible and defensive mechanisms to defend their hobby. Seriously, making assumptions saying that anyone who doesn't like them wants AMD at MSRP (I don't even know what that's about) and are bitter they missed the train and so on?
Seriously, it's 2014 and people still make grand assumptions of other strangers online as part of their enlightened master plan to demonstate their logic and defend their position. I usually see sort of logical discourse amongst ignorant mouth-breathers in meatspace.
Anyway, I guess I will go research elsewhere.
(There were some decent arguments and nuggets of interest in here, so thank you to you.)
My initial opinion is that people want to make money out of nothing, or doing next to nothing, or by magic while they sit on the couch. I just don't quite buy into it. (Then again, I also don't buy into most people who earn money off ads on websites or YouTube vlogging as a career.) But I am open to hearing more about it, as I'm certainly not an expert.
Seriously, it's 2014 and people still make grand assumptions of other strangers online as part of their enlightened master plan to demonstate their logic and defend their position. I usually see sort of logical discourse amongst ignorant mouth-breathers in meatspace.
Anyway, I guess I will go research elsewhere.
(There were some decent arguments and nuggets of interest in here, so thank you to you.)
My initial opinion is that people want to make money out of nothing, or doing next to nothing, or by magic while they sit on the couch. I just don't quite buy into it. (Then again, I also don't buy into most people who earn money off ads on websites or YouTube vlogging as a career.) But I am open to hearing more about it, as I'm certainly not an expert.
kirbyrj
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That's the thing though...it is worth $580 or so real dollars right now for each bitcoin you have. Tomorrow it might be worth more or less. In 6 months it might be worth nothing, but saying it isn't worth anything is incorrect.
Retronym
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Since it bothers you so much what other people do with electricity they pay for, why don't you petition your government to decide who is worthy of electricity, and what activities are worthy. My wallet would thank you for proving bitcoin's validity.
kirbyrj
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I waded through this thread actually hoping to learn a bit more about Bitcoin. Sadly, about the only thing I learned from most of the Bitcoin defenders (for lack of a better term) is they have some pretty terrible and defensive mechanisms to defend their hobby. Seriously, making assumptions saying that anyone who doesn't like them wants AMD at MSRP (I don't even know what that's about) and are bitter they missed the train and so on?
Seriously, it's 2014 and people still make grand assumptions of other strangers online as part of their enlightened master plan to demonstate their logic and defend their position. I usually see sort of logical discourse amongst ignorant mouth-breathers in meatspace.
Anyway, I guess I will go research elsewhere.
(There were some decent arguments and nuggets of interest in here, so thank you to you.)
My initial opinion is that people want to make money out of nothing, or doing next to nothing, or by magic while they sit on the couch. I just don't quite buy into it. (Then again, I also don't buy into most people who earn money off ads on websites or YouTube vlogging as a career.) But I am open to hearing more about it, as I'm certainly not an expert.
What you have failed to observe is that this is about the 5th bitcoin related "news" item in the past week. All of the threads are similar in that they break down to those who say, "What did you expect, it's based on nothing," and those that say, "Who cares, I still make money." To which the response is, "But I want AMD cards at MSRP."
If you're coming to a thread entitled, "Mt. Gox sued over Bitcoin Losses," I can't imagine that you are seriously trying to research "a bit more about Bitcoin" because this thread has virtually nothing to do with actual Bitcoin. To post that you are disappointed with the way "Bitcoin defenders" are defending their position and then calling relating to them as "ignorant mouth-breathers in meatspace" shows that you're just trolling.
At the end of the day, trading Alt-coins is pretty much the equivalent of trading penny stocks, but there's money to be made doing it, and people make money. Just because you related it to as "magic while sitting on the couch," doesn't mean that people don't make money doing it. You already showed your hand by stating, "I just don't quite buy into it."
1. I'm not just trolling, but thanks for assuming. Trolling is somewhat in the eye of the beholder, yes?
2. I'm sorry, next time I want to post, I'll make sure I read the last 6 months of news articles to make sure I don't step into a topic where a horse is being beaten past death. My bad, I guess. But thank you for providing the context; it does make sense in explaining some of the responses.
3. I saw an article about Bitcoin/Mt. Gox. The presence of this article made me interested in the topic, so I clicked into the thread. Guess that somehow is stupid?
4. Never said people don't make money from it. In fact, my statements would suggest people *do* make money from it (out of nothing, next to nothing, or magic).
5. I said, "I just don't quite buy into it," to give some idea of where I stand at the moment. I didn't sit here and cry about it and I didn't want to sound like I'm just being ornery, but rather have a tendency towards one side. It's not a hard stance, it's just my initial impression based on, as I at least implied, a somewhat limited exposure to discourse on the topic. Hence why I thought I would explore the topic.
*sigh*
2. I'm sorry, next time I want to post, I'll make sure I read the last 6 months of news articles to make sure I don't step into a topic where a horse is being beaten past death. My bad, I guess. But thank you for providing the context; it does make sense in explaining some of the responses.
3. I saw an article about Bitcoin/Mt. Gox. The presence of this article made me interested in the topic, so I clicked into the thread. Guess that somehow is stupid?
4. Never said people don't make money from it. In fact, my statements would suggest people *do* make money from it (out of nothing, next to nothing, or magic).
5. I said, "I just don't quite buy into it," to give some idea of where I stand at the moment. I didn't sit here and cry about it and I didn't want to sound like I'm just being ornery, but rather have a tendency towards one side. It's not a hard stance, it's just my initial impression based on, as I at least implied, a somewhat limited exposure to discourse on the topic. Hence why I thought I would explore the topic.
*sigh*
Or, you could just stop the nonsense and save us all some money without all that hassle...if it bothers you that much that it bothers me feel free to put me on ignore. Betchya can't though.
atp1916
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I would argue that everyone would want to make money that way. Some people just have different / more effective ways of accomplishing that than others.
Retronym
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Or, you could just stop the nonsense and save us all some money without all that hassle...if it bothers you that much that it bothers me feel free to put me on ignore. Betchya can't though.
Hell no, you're not getting off that easy.
We're here to discuss topics and ideas. Otherwise what the hell are we doing here.
No.
You THINK its worth $580 a coin.
There aren't many places that will take it as payment.
If you wish to convert it to a spendable currency you'll have to find someone like Mt Gox to sell your coins then pray its not stolen or lost as you wait in que to sell and since none of these places are insured if your coins are stolen you're screwed.
My problem is being told I'm "missing out" because I don't wish to pay inflated prices for a GPU. Retailers are screwing EVERYBODY, gamers and miners alike, and as long as people are foolish enough to stand in line with money in their hands they're going to continue to screw us over.
kirbyrj
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Very simple...
1. Open a Coinbase account
2. Put bitcoins in Coinbase
3. Cash out to US Dollars any time you request to your bank account at current market value, and you receive a deposit in your bank account in USD in 3 business days.
Hence, it IS worth $580 in real US Dollars. It's almost as if you're not trying to make a good argument on purpose.
And as soon as Coinbase gets hacked, it'll be "Just open an account somewhere else."
3 days is all it takes to lose it all.
atp1916
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Don't feed the trolls or seek acceptance from the haters, fellow miners.
Their loss is our gain.
Their loss is our gain.
kirbyrj
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You don't have to store your bitcoin at Coinbase in order to use the service. If you're concerned about someone hacking into Coinbase, keep it in stored on your own local computer. My point is that it is very easy to convert bitcoin into "spendable" USD contrary to your point.
Just because you choose not to do it doesn't mean its not easy to do.
Big fat facepalm. Coinbase does not buy bitcoins. People do. Coinbase is just a middle man. One of many.
For example, there are millions and millions of dollars of OPEN BUY ORDERS over $500 for a single bitcoin here.
https://www.bitstamp.net/market/order_book/
and that's just one exchange, and that's just the OPEN orders.
The value of something doesn't get any more defined then that.
For the love of god, do some basic research before posting.
atp1916
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^^ Basic research would validate the "coiners'" position about what exactly bitcoin is and what it represents.
We can't have that now, can we?
We can't have that now, can we?
^^ Basic research would validate the "coiners'" position about what exactly bitcoin is and what it represents.
We can't have that now, can we?
Nope, we can't.
"Real" currencies are insured.
I'll accept bitcoin as a real currency once its exchanges are insured against lost.
If your bitcoins are in que to be sold and they're stolen, or about to be used for a purchase then stolen, and you've no way to get it back or reimburse for your loss its not a real currency.
You put REAL currency into a bank, it gains interest AND if that bank is robbed, it is insured by a government where you know you'll get your money back.
I've got no problems with the concept of bitcoins, but before I'm willing to consider them "real" it has to have more backing than a few nerds foaming at the mouth screaming "is too!" before I'm willing to fully accept them.
More drivel.
I keep a bunch of my cash in a fidelity brokerage account. Their cash fund is not FDIC insured. if they go insolvent and they are robbed, I don't get my money back.
By your logic, USD is not a real currency.
kirbyrj
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Think of it more like buying a stock. You're not going to get a physical stock certificate. The only place its going to exist is in a ledger somewhere. The price might go up or down from the price you paid for it. The biggest difference is that instead of paying a bunch of people to buy/sell it on an exchange, you can do it yourself. Essentially, you're buying into the idea that crypto-currency has some sort of future and the price has the potential to increase. If you're selling, you're trying to recover expenses or believe that the price is going to decrease. Public interest and perception can raise and lower the price just like any other stock.