NSA Patented The Secure Manhole

Probably worried about someone knowing which wires and fiber to cut off the NSA, or it's just to protect government maintenance access.
 
The patent says why:

"Modern telecommunications equipment is increasingly utilizing underground vaults and conduits that are accessible by sealed manhole openings."

Used in theory to protect the US telecom infrastructure that is accessible via manholes.

I would be more worried about the patents the NSA files that are held under gag order.
 
Perhaps this is a job they should actually be doing as the National Security Administration, you know securing things. Bravo.
 
I rely on staunch heterosexuality and an avoidance of the DOC to secure my manhole.
 
communication is the reason but....

I'm A Civil Engineer by trade- mostly land survey but do a lot of residential city work.

with a bit of planning, i could wreak havok on a large portion of any modern city in the world-without harming anyone.
 
lenardo said:
communication is the reason but....

I'm A Civil Engineer by trade- mostly land survey but do a lot of residential city work.

with a bit of planning, i could wreak havok on a large portion of any modern city in the world-without harming anyone.
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And now you're on a list, congrats!
 
woo woo :)

i'd never do it, it will be in the story i am writing but that is the extent of it.

hell we get invade by zombies-that are attracted by sound, i have the perfect ...well zombie mulcher is the name i came up with-adopted from john ringo's description of his version in his darkling sea books.
 
Welsper said:
And now you're on a list, congrats!
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Come on, security and terrorism is a joke. Anyone of moderate intelligence could buy a rifle and ruin the economy in a couple weeks. A couple shots at airplanes, transformers, and oil refineries and this whole place is seized up.
 
Aluisious said:
Come on, security and terrorism is a joke. Anyone of moderate intelligence could buy a rifle and ruin the economy in a couple weeks. A couple shots at airplanes, transformers, and oil refineries and this whole place is seized up.
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As if you're going to at all hurt a transformer with a rifle. There's a lot more than meets the eye that you're totally ignoring.
 
Aluisious said:
Come on, security and terrorism is a joke. Anyone of moderate intelligence could buy a rifle and ruin the economy in a couple weeks. A couple shots at airplanes, transformers, and oil refineries and this whole place is seized up.
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True. Any nutjob can wreak havoc anytime by any means. Timothy Mcveigh comes to mind. Two guys with a lot of hate an inguenity can cause mass hysteria and destruction.
 
Aluisious said:
Come on, security and terrorism is a joke. Anyone of moderate intelligence could buy a rifle and ruin the economy in a couple weeks. A couple shots at airplanes, transformers, and oil refineries and this whole place is seized up.
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I'm aware, I meant what I said as a joke.
 
Come on, security and terrorism is a joke. Anyone of moderate intelligence could buy a rifle and ruin the economy in a couple weeks. A couple shots at airplanes, transformers, and oil refineries and this whole place is seized up.
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I think this is a little foolish to believe in light of the current winter storm and it's effects. It's had essentially the same effect shutting down airports all across the Eastern US but no one is saying anything about an economic disaster as the outcome.

More than 6,900 domestic and international flights were canceled Thursday alone, according to flight-tracking website FlightAware.com.
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http://www.weather.com/news/commuter-conditions/winter-storm-pax-travel-impacts-20140211

As for the power grid, someone has already attacked a power substation, yes it caused damage, and now engineers are looking for cost effective solutions that will provide protection against such simplistic measures.

planes in flight get shot at all the time, perhaps worse is laser light incidents where someone tries to blind the pilots with a laser, happens all the time, no plane has ever been brought down because of this though.

Given a good number of people collaborating to conduct these types of attacks, yes you could cause some trouble for a little while but you are not going to bring the country to financial ruin. We get too much of our income from foreign sources for activities performed outside the US.

It's just too simplistic and doesn't have as much impact as some people think.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Did anyone else read "secure manhole" as something that stops kinky things from happening?
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Hey, when it comes to fucking people over the NSA are a bunch of greedy little bastards who wants sole fudge backing rights all to themselves so no one else can do it.
 
lenardo said:
communication is the reason but....

I'm A Civil Engineer by trade- mostly land survey but do a lot of residential city work.

with a bit of planning, i could wreak havok on a large portion of any modern city in the world-without harming anyone.
Click to expand...

Prove it, I'll keep tabs on the news.:D
 
Looks like a screwed up man doing the splits.

Bwahahahahaha
 
Why wouldn't you just make one that SCREWS on, and has a sensor on the underside to alert police/whomever if anyone tries to unscrew it? :eek::p
 
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
Why wouldn't you just make one that SCREWS on, and has a sensor on the underside to alert police/whomever if anyone tries to unscrew it? :eek::p
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I thought the whole point of this security thing was to prevent anyone from screwing the manhole. I think your probes and screws might sort of go against the intent. :p
 
Why wouldn't you just make one that SCREWS on, and has a sensor on the underside to alert police/whomever if anyone tries to unscrew it?
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Several reasons, one it would be a bitch to machine, really costly. Next, this doesn't require a matching threaded hole for the threaded cover. Then third, the weight is enough that it would take some power tool of some large sort to screw it in, that would be more expense and along with that if you cross threaded it the cost of repair replacement would be bad too. Shit do I really have to continue unfucking your thoroughly fucked up idea?
 
Who pays for this? What a fucking waste of money. Unreal.
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And if they didn't secure the man holes and someone broke in, how much would you bitch about the unsecured entrance?
 
Cr4ckm0nk3y said:
The patent says why:

"Modern telecommunications equipment is increasingly utilizing underground vaults and conduits that are accessible by sealed manhole openings."

Used in theory to protect the US telecom infrastructure that is accessible via manholes.

I would be more worried about the patents the NSA files that are held under gag order.
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That describes the need to have a secured manhole, but not the need for a patent on such a thing. I mean maybe for a company that produces manholes, a patent like that would be useful, but for the NSA itself? Weird.
 
a patent like that would be useful, but for the NSA itself? Weird.
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No it isn't. Now if they need manhole covers made they contract out the work and license the winning bidder to manufacture them according to the patent. Now they control where the manhole covers will be built so that they don't become common knowledge and are more difficult to defeat because those trying to break into them may never have seen them before.
 
they need a patent so when they decide to shut down the grid, they'll be the ones in control of it.
 
extide said:
That describes the need to have a secured manhole, but not the need for a patent on such a thing. I mean maybe for a company that produces manholes, a patent like that would be useful, but for the NSA itself? Weird.
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If you go through the effort to design it, why not patent it while your at it?

Or don't patent it and have a company steal the design and patent it themselves.
 
Depends on what kind of transformer you're talking about. This kind is vulnerable:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...#axzz2t20h4AYf
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Just takes a little hardening.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/shotspotter-detection-system-documents-39000-shooting-incidents-in-the-district/2013/11/02/055f8e9c-2ab1-11e3-8ade-a1f23cda135e_story.html

Octocopter_with_camera.jpg


+

shotspotterSTILL4_1383334873934.jpg


Makes a good start.
 
extide said:
That describes the need to have a secured manhole, but not the need for a patent on such a thing. I mean maybe for a company that produces manholes, a patent like that would be useful, but for the NSA itself? Weird.
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Due to the NSA's mission they have a direct interest in the protection of the US telecom system.

Having a patent allows the NSA / Govt to have sole control over who manufactures the item, how the item is produced, and how it is implemented. That way the Govt doesn't have to wait for private industry to see a need or risk tipping their hand to the "enemy." If the NSA feels there is a need to immediately secure manholes then they can without waiting on private industry to design a solution.

The Govt has 1,000's of patents for everything from solar panels to GPS to medical marijuana. Most of the NSA's patents are held on a gag-order unless a competing product is filed. Just like patents filed by the military or clandestine services the general public normally has no idea of their existence. As I said above, the items are patented to restrict the use of the intellectual property.
 
If the NSA wants to patent this kind of stuff, fine... But since this was paid for with taxpayer money, then it should at least be freely licensed to all US based companies who want to manufacture a device based on the patent.....
 
If the NSA wants to patent this kind of stuff, fine... But since this was paid for with taxpayer money, then it should at least be freely licensed to all US based companies who want to manufacture a device based on the patent.....
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I am sure this would be the case, as long as they are making them to satisfy a Government Contract which qualifies for the use of these devices.
 
jpochedl said:
If the NSA wants to patent this kind of stuff, fine... But since this was paid for with taxpayer money, then it should at least be freely licensed to all US based companies who want to manufacture a device based on the patent.....
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That has been an item of contention for years. It has to do with the patent laws having been designed 50+ years ago and the Govt wanting to have control over technology and its application.

Don't forget many of the patents are for some pretty dangerous stuff. You can't have weapons of war freely licensed to any US company who wants to make it. Imagine if the NSA snooping patents were freely given away. Then comes the question how would the Govt manage/determine what patents are freely licensed? They can't even handle building a website.

It is all about the Govt being a nanny. A very large and dump nanny.

I do wish the Govt would lighten up restrictions for access to Govt patents related to the medical industry.
 
lcpiper said:
Several reasons, one it would be a bitch to machine, really costly. Next, this doesn't require a matching threaded hole for the threaded cover. Then third, the weight is enough that it would take some power tool of some large sort to screw it in, that would be more expense and along with that if you cross threaded it the cost of repair replacement would be bad too. Shit do I really have to continue unfucking your thoroughly fucked up idea?
Click to expand...

See also: rust. On any salted road they would be rusted solid. Which would require an air-powered impact wrench to loosen. Which would require a air compressor on-site. Which would require....
 
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
Why wouldn't you just make one that SCREWS on, and has a sensor on the underside to alert police/whomever if anyone tries to unscrew it? :eek::p
Click to expand...

A few reasons, all stemming from one root cause.

The Freeze/Thaw cycle. The roadway is constantly flexing and compressing. Over time, this deforms the manhole cap (not the cover) that's in place.

With a current manhole, even if the cap is pressing in on the cover, you can pop it off with a prybar and a bit of effort.

If you had to deal with screw threads? Forget it!

The threads themselves would also be susceptible to damage in the freeze/thaw cycle due to water infiltration.

The only way to forego that would be to make the cover, concrete cover assembly, cap and the threads MUCH thicker. And even that's only going to slow down the development of a problem. This increases the costs for materials, manufacture and installation.

And even southern areas that DON'T have to deal regularly with freeze/thaw still have to deal with a continuous hot/cold cycle. It doesn't to QUITE as much damage. But it still, over time, will deform the cap.
 
lenardo said:
communication is the reason but....

I'm A Civil Engineer by trade- mostly land survey but do a lot of residential city work.

with a bit of planning, i could wreak havok on a large portion of any modern city in the world-without harming anyone.
Click to expand...

In rural areas all you need is one or two asshole farmers to do that. ;)

bucketlist said:
Prove it, I'll keep tabs on the news.:D
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When talking about communication or power. it wouldn't really be that hard.

just need to know the right places to cut. I work for a small Telco / ISP out in a rural area. I can tell you that cutting 4 places our in the middle of nowhere would take out service to 3 of our towns from our main office and would break 1 side of our connection to another. 1 more cut and you have taken out that 4th town. Also know from something that happen last year people can get into our manholes to cut stuff without any issues. Had somebody that knew exactly what they were doing take try to take out one of our small towns. Not sure why as it is a small town of 300 people. Somebody went out to our office and started up the generator trying to run it out of gas (not realizing it was on natural gas not gasoline or propane), then went a few miles south and opened a man hole and cut all the fibers right at the wall of the hole on both sides, meaning that we couldn't just splice it back but had to then put in two new holes, and splice in a section. Similar things could happen in a larger city. If you know enough about the grid you can know exactly where to cut to take out sections of a city.
 
Thanks for the plans, now I know where to put the thermite so it falls through the security mechanism. :D

I am now on a list.
 
Exavior said:
In rural areas all you need is one or two asshole farmers to do that. ;)



When talking about communication or power. it wouldn't really be that hard.

just need to know the right places to cut. I work for a small Telco / ISP out in a rural area. I can tell you that cutting 4 places our in the middle of nowhere would take out service to 3 of our towns from our main office and would break 1 side of our connection to another. 1 more cut and you have taken out that 4th town. Also know from something that happen last year people can get into our manholes to cut stuff without any issues. Had somebody that knew exactly what they were doing take try to take out one of our small towns. Not sure why as it is a small town of 300 people. Somebody went out to our office and started up the generator trying to run it out of gas (not realizing it was on natural gas not gasoline or propane), then went a few miles south and opened a man hole and cut all the fibers right at the wall of the hole on both sides, meaning that we couldn't just splice it back but had to then put in two new holes, and splice in a section. Similar things could happen in a larger city. If you know enough about the grid you can know exactly where to cut to take out sections of a city.
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Yep actually scary how easy it really is. There was some guys who stole an ATM machine by cutting a hole in the roof of a restaurant, one of our fibres passed behind that building so they cut it first, in hopes it would disable the alarm system. There was no long distance calls going out till that was fixed. Town was more or less isolated. I think we have redundancy now though, but still, all one really has to do is cut all the aerial cables they see along each entry point (basically, highway) of the town.
 
Am I the only one that thought it was ironic that the NSA was trying to patent the security of our asses?
 
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