NSA Targets Leaky Apps Like Angry Birds

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It's a damn shame that even apps like Angry Birds are being used to spy on us. Is nothing sacred?!? Damn you NSA!!!

The National Security Agency and its UK counterpart GCHQ have been developing capabilities to take advantage of "leaky" smartphone apps, such as the wildly popular Angry Birds game, that transmit users' private information across the internet, according to top secret documents.
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It's a damn good thing the NSA has learned how to take advantage of vulnerabilities in our enemy's communications systems, even the innocuous entertainment apps.
 
Some people still want to take every shreed of news and think of it as being directed against them completely ignoring that the Agency's mission is Foreign Intelligence and once in a while, those foreigners come to the US.
 
lcpiper said:
Some people still want to take every shreed of news and think of it as being directed against them completely ignoring that the Agency's mission is Foreign Intelligence and once in a while, those foreigners come to the US.
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Their mission might be Foreign Intel but the facts show they care about spying on us/allies too.
 
Their mission might be Foreign Intel but the facts show they care about spying on us/allies too.
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There are friendly nations, but there are no friendly Intelligence Services.

As for spying on the US, it's because non-US Persons use Verizon just like we do. It's all in there together, one big pot.
 
That doesnt justify their actions though. There are good reason why warrants used to be needed but with patriot act they dont need PC or anything to just surveil you.
 
KleeziE said:
Their mission might be Foreign Intel but the facts show they care about spying on us/allies too.
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Yeah The NSA and Canadian CSEC/CSIS store information on everybody from their massive almost complete dragnets. They may not be looking at it all today but raise a few red flags and you can be damn sure all your information is there for them to see when/if they want.
 
That doesnt justify their actions though. There are good reason why warrants used to be needed but with patriot act they dont need PC or anything to just surveil you.
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Yes they do. If you are a US Person they still need a warrant to listen to you, they don't need a warrant to do the bulk metadata collection, phone number, time and duration of call, in a disassociated database where they can't use the number to get your name or address, or anything else. All they can do is look at the relationship between a known "bad number" and other numbers, times of calls, the patterns that suggest something organized is going on between this bad guy and other numbers. Then this goes to the FISA court and they get the court's OK to request the full call data from the Carrier. If a person is involved that is a US person, then they have to get a warrant.
 
That doesnt justify their actions though.
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Do you know what "their actions are"?

Do you have a real idea of what the NSA really does all over the world?

If something makes an electronic fart, they listen to it. Any kind of electronic signal whatsoever, from any and every country in the world, from anything military, anything political, anything educational, anything organized, anything that flies, anything that floats. All of it.
 
And somehow people think that all they do is listen to phones and read emails.
 
lcpiper said:
Yes they do. If you are a US Person they still need a warrant to listen to you, they don't need a warrant to do the bulk metadata collection, phone number, time and duration of call, in a disassociated database where they can't use the number to get your name or address, or anything else. All they can do is look at the relationship between a known "bad number" and other numbers, times of calls, the patterns that suggest something organized is going on between this bad guy and other numbers. Then this goes to the FISA court and they get the court's OK to request the full call data from the Carrier. If a person is involved that is a US person, then they have to get a warrant.
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Yeah, they say they can't connect data but me working in the big data field says otherwise.
 
lcpiper said:
Yes they do. If you are a US Person they still need a warrant to listen to you, they don't need a warrant to do the bulk metadata collection, phone number, time and duration of call, in a disassociated database where they can't use the number to get your name or address, or anything else. All they can do is look at the relationship between a known "bad number" and other numbers, times of calls, the patterns that suggest something organized is going on between this bad guy and other numbers. Then this goes to the FISA court and they get the court's OK to request the full call data from the Carrier. If a person is involved that is a US person, then they have to get a warrant.
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Before 2011, this was not possible because the courts restricted it. But the Obama Administration was the one that requested that the Bush Administration court order be removed. How did the rule become possible in the first place? Because the Bush Administration saw it was ripe for abuse and requested the court put a court order forth to prohibited a dragnet.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...6ef658-0fe5-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html
What had not been previously acknowledged is that the court in 2008 imposed an explicit ban — at the government’s request — on those kinds of searches, that officials in 2011 got the court to lift the bar and that the search authority has been used.
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Yeah, they say they can't connect data but me working in the big data field says otherwise.
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Didn't say they can't, said they don't.

It's a process, collect the metadata in a closed loop, add a hot phone number, known bad guy, do the analysis of that "network" to identify which numbers might be suspect partners. This is the metadata program part, it's not all of it, it's just the beginning.

Now you get the FISA court to let you pull full IDs for your suspect numbers from the carriers, if you have a US Person involved, now you get your warrant if the Judge buys off, if not, the US Person is off the hook for now, they still have the others, remember this starts with a Non-US Person.

Now they pull in everything they have, order up whatever they need in order to see who is who and what is what. But these are not US Persons, they are suspect to begin with. If a US Person is involved in the investigation then it's by warrant.
 
 
So they read data that is sent in cleartext over the internet? Wow what a surprise :rolleyes:. And apps that give away system/user information without any protections are all the better. SSL/TLS should be standard for production use now, why servers even still support HTTP is stupid (yes, including you hardforum).
 
Originally Posted by temujin987;

"they also wrote 7 out of 10 posts (excluding the OP) in this thread."
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LOL, that's cute man, I just saw it cause Kent did. No it's ok, I understand even if you don't. See, you think that because I don't agree with some things, that it means I must be in favor of others. This is not correct. Give it some time, you'll catch on.
 
BERLIN - The U.S. National Security Agency is involved in industrial espionage and will grab any intelligence it can get its hands on regardless of its value to national security, former NSA contractor Edward Snowden told a German TV network.

In text released ahead of a lengthy interview to be broadcast on Sunday, ARD TV quoted Snowden saying the NSA does not limit its espionage to issues of national security and he cited German engineering firm, Siemens as one target.

"If there's information at Siemens that's beneficial to U.S. national interests - even if it doesn't have anything to do with national security - then they'll take that information nevertheless," Snowden said, according to ARD, which recorded the interview in Russia where he has claimed asylum.

Continued at, http://www.cbsnews.com/news/snowden-nsa-conducts-industrial-espionage-too/
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Siemens industrial drives were the industrial controls compromised by the Stuxnet virus, and they are present in everything from heavy machinery to nuclear facilities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

Stuxnet is a computer worm discovered in June 2010. It is speculated to have been created by United States and Israeli agencies to attack Iran's nuclear facilities.[1] Stuxnet initially spreads via Microsoft Windows, and targets Siemens industrial control systems. While it is not the first time that hackers have targeted industrial systems,[2] the first publicly known intentional act of cyberwarfare to be implemented, it is the first discovered malware that spies on and subverts industrial systems,[3] and the first to include a programmable logic controller (PLC) rootkit.[4][5]

The worm initially spreads indiscriminately, but includes a highly specialized malware payload that is designed to target only Siemens supervisory control and data acquisition (SCADA) systems that are configured to control and monitor specific industrial processes.[6][7] Stuxnet infects PLCs by subverting the Step-7 software application that is used to reprogram these devices.[8][9]

Different variants of Stuxnet targeted five Iranian organizations,[10] with the probable target widely suspected to be uranium enrichment infrastructure in Iran;[9][11][12] Symantec noted in August 2010 that 60% of the infected computers worldwide were in Iran.[13] Siemens stated that the worm has not caused any damage to its customers,[14] but the Iran nuclear program, which uses embargoed Siemens equipment procured secretly, has been damaged by Stuxnet.[15][16] Kaspersky Lab concluded that the sophisticated attack could only have been conducted "with nation-state support".[17] This was further supported by the F-Secure's chief researcher Mikko Hyppönen who commented in a Stuxnet FAQ, "That's what it would look like, yes".[18] It has been speculated that Israel[19] and the United States may have been involved.[20][21]
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I'm okay with them using Angry Birds for spying. It's not like I'm personally doing anything wrong so I could care less if they can see what's on my computer. Besides that, the NSA isn't doing anything abusive with the stuff they're collecting and they haven't ever. People get really excited about this whole having rights thing and really, I don't get it. It's not like anyone had the right to privacy anyhow. :rolleyes: Americans are all self-entitled jerkfaces that drive huge vehicles and waste tons of money on dumb stuff like sports and guns.
 
Besides that, the NSA isn't doing anything abusive with the stuff they're collecting and they haven't ever
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Sorry but this just sounds naive, you have no idea what they are using this data for... frankly neither do I, but i would rather side on the side of caution and assume they are abusing it, like every other entity that collects mass data. Considering they didnt even want U.S citizens to know if they were collecting this data.

If it was so harmless for them to collect it, why were U.S Citizens protected by the constitution not informed?
 
lcpiper said:
Some people still want to take every shreed of news and think of it as being directed against them completely ignoring that the Agency's mission is Foreign Intelligence and once in a while, those foreigners come to the US.
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Yeah,right,and in between spying on us and planning terrorist attacks they play Angry Birds. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah 8 out of 10 terrorist prefer angry birds over tetris. It all makes sense now. :rolleyes:
 
lcpiper said:
Some people still want to take every shreed of news and think of it as being directed against them completely ignoring that the Agency's mission is Foreign Intelligence and once in a while, those foreigners come to the US.
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Angry Birds? Get fucking serious.

NSA is an agency whose only constraint in the past was resources and now the appear to have an unlimited budget, an hence no judgement or sense of self-restraint.

Copy *.* was never meant to be in the agency's scope and its ridiculous it feels entitled to it. But since it can't control itself its about to have its dick chopped off.
 
By Kaitian;
Yes, I do read, sir. That doesn't change my point if you were trying to change it?
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I'm not attacking you man, relax a little, I was just saying that the source documents that are referenced sometimes have distinctly different meanings then what the reporters try to fabricate from them.
 
lcpiper said:
Do you know what "their actions are"?
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I think that's what most people have a problem with. Who's holding them accountable to their bosses - the American people? Where's the oversight? Who's watching the watchers? People are just supposed to take them at their word? The Federal Government has an intolerably bad record when it comes to saying one thing and doing another. Why SHOULD people trust the NSA to be honest? Why SHOULD people be expected to just accept that it's all being done in their best interests and won't be used against them down the road? Government OF the people means the people know what's going on, and government FOR the people means it doesn't use information about the people AGAINST the very people its supposed to protect... yet that's exactly what happens. The signers of the Constitution are rolling in their graves over what this country is turning into. National Security is a BS reason that these tyrants hide behind to get away with it. If the nation is that insecure that its government has to hide the truth from and lie to its own people on a regular basis then its charter has been abandoned and it's no longer worth defending.
 
Considering they didnt even want U.S citizens to know if they were collecting this data.
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OK,I was going to mean, but I'll try and tone it down. They don't want the bad guys to know, and that means they can't tell us either.

You see, as soon as an enemy knows how you are able to learn their secrets, they close that door up as tight as they can? The biggest part of what makes things classified is how we gained the information, not the information that we gained.

That is why Snowden, who was only in there exposed to this stuff a few months, was such a tool. He doesn't actually know shit about what we do, why we do it, and what we do to protect our own people from abuse. He only had a clearance for 4 months, he was a noob, ignorant. At the best case he only learned a little, made up his mind and stole a bunch of stuff before he could learn that the real picture is different then what he thought he was seeing. At worst he lied and cheated his way in with the intent to expose what he already believed was abuse, again, before he even had any knowledge of what was being done to protect American's privacy and rights. How many times is quoted as if he is an authority, He isn't an authority, he's just the closest thing to an authority that will talk, but despite all the stuff he stole and all these months of time to look at it, he is maybe now coming around to the idea that he might have jumped the gun a little.

Problem is, he's already done criminal things, even if the courts end up ruling that the programs were unconstitutional, then change the laws that allow the programs to operate, and shut it all down, he is still guilty of stealing other things that are being released that had nothing to do with these programs and were not violating US Person's rights in any way. He is still fucked.
 
NSA is an agency whose only constraint in the past was resources and now the appear to have an unlimited budget, an hence no judgement or sense of self-restraint.
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Wrong, your wrong, of course they have a budget, of course this limits their activities. They needed a way to gather the communications of foreign nationals within the borders of the US, current law restricted it back prior to the Patriot Act, that Law changed things so they could do what they needed. Once they got the lawful OK to expand their operations to communications infrastructure within the US, they had to create the programs that would do this, they created the first programs but there were problems, one was shut down, it was changed, approved and started as a new program. Now there are new concerns and challenges. It's not going away, but just because they needed to expand their reach due to a changing world doesn't mean they run unfettered and unrestricted without oversight like a pack of wild dogs.
 
By jpm100;
Copy *.* was never meant to be in the agency's scope and its ridiculous it feels entitled to it. But since it can't control itself its about to have its dick chopped off.
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Umm, what is this?
Copy *.* was
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Flyboat, I am a government contractor. I don't waste your money, I get paid by my company, the actual Contractor, to work for them, to provide the services my company was contracted to perform. If the government lets a contract that is wasteful, unnecessary, or redundant without need, it's the government and not the contractor that is wasting the money.

The purpose for the government to use contractors usually is because the contractor can provide a service for the government that is better and or cheaper then what it would cost for the government itself to expand and do for itself. In other words, if the government needs a bridge built, sometimes it's cheaper to have someone else do it, then to go into the bridge building business itself.

Now this has nothing to do with corrupted government officials allowing companies to bribe them for contracts that waste our money illegally. I am just talking about the proper use of contractors by the government.

As for finding exploits in Angry Birds and taking advantage of it to spy on bad guys, I see nothing wrong with it, do you?
 
lcpiper said:
As for finding exploits in Angry Birds and taking advantage of it to spy on bad guys, I see nothing wrong with it, do you?
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I think most people would be fine with that - as long as it's only the bad guys they're spying on... but there's two concerns there:

1) How do we know that's all they're spying on, and
2) Who's being defined as "the bad guys" at any given moment?
 
lcpiper said:
As for finding exploits in Angry Birds and taking advantage of it to spy on bad guys, I see nothing wrong with it, do you?
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As long as it's legal for anyone else to do the same, I see nothing wrong with it. Now, if it's illegal for anyone else to do so, then I expect to see a warrant giving them permission to use that exploit against a known target (not just a blanket sweep).

Government agencies are given a bit of leeway when it comes to protecting the country. But, they always seem to go just a tad too far in the eyes of most Americans. Legal? Sure. Right within their boundaries... They use every bit of their power to get information. That's their job.
 
Wow time to start doing internal port blocking, did not realize these apps were calling home to that extent. I'll have to do some packet sniffing on my firewall to see what kind of stuff is going through.
 
KleeziE said:
Their mission might be Foreign Intel but the facts show they care about spying on us/allies too.
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Mass data collection, spying on us ALL is not acceptable.


”Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.” - Ben Franklin
 
w00tMkay said:
Mass data collection, spying on us ALL is not acceptable.
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Nope. But, Patriot Act helped make it legal. Might not be acceptable, but they voted for it with great applause by the majority of American people.
 
By Ur_Mom;
Nope. But, Patriot Act helped make it legal. Might not be acceptable, but they voted for it with great applause by the majority of American people.
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Pretty close, I remember when they were doing this and my thoughts were, maybe we need this, I'm not sure, but as long as we can still vote and the rest of the system is still working, it can always be turned back.

Maybe that will happen, but I am not sure yet because there still seems to be a need for it. The real questions are, can they do this in a way that does not pose a risk to privacy and our freedom in the future? Can they convince us that this is true.

In the mean time they need to get a handle on things cause it can't keep going the way it is.

On the one side you have so many people distorting the truth for their own reasons.
On another, you have people releasing information that is now not even related to the issue and it's hurting us. The Angry Birds, Radio bugging, and intercepting physical deliveries of equipment all are examples of things that weren't even reported as being done to Americans, these were techniques used to do a valid job for valid reasons, and these kinds of things are being exposed now almost weekly. Knowing this stuff might be interesting reading, but they have nothing to do with the issue at hand and represent real harm being done to our country. Methods that we used to gain information information, in some cases, perhaps only rarely and against very important targets is now common knowledge and those targets are now aware of these risks and closing those doors to us.

I know some of you believe that the potential risk of abuse of our privacy and rights are very important and you are right, they are. But keep in mind that you are measuring the potential risk of abuse against the real and actual loss of information against valid targets that are real and open threats to the US.

Don't go thinking that if our house burns you aren't going to burn with it. North Korean is playing with Nucs and Long Range Missiles, Iran is doing the same, others already have them and we need to be watching them very close all the time. Some of these governments are not very stable, or they are insanely stable take your pick.

All I am saying is you need to keep the real picture in mind, this is not just an issue of sacrificing our rights or freedom for an illusion or security, or a small amount of security. Terrorism is a tiny piece of everything the NSA does. Years ago data was compromised at Los Alamos, Defense Contractor networks have been hacked, spies have been busy, and we have a long list of traitors who have given or sold secrets to others about our submarines, and other military capabilities.

Ask yourself one simple question, is there someone, or some group in the world, who if given an opportunity, would sail a ship with a nuclear weapon into San Francisco Bay and detonate it? If they could do it with ten ships, or twenty, would they?
Boston
New York
Philadelphia
Washington
Norfolk
Miami
Panama City
Pensacola
New Orleans
Houston
The Panama Canal
San Diego
Los Angles
San Fransisco
Seattle

Fifteen targets, with room to spare.

If they could do it, they would.
 
For a tiny part of what they do, their budget has roughly doubled sine 9/11?

I don't buy it, more like everyone is slamming their big heads into an open feed bucket.
 
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