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HealthCare.gov Cracked In 4 Minutes
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Taldren
Gawd
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I'm a Libertarian that thought that the GW Bush years were horrible, but feel the Obama years have been far worse. Carter was a little before my time, so you would need to help me out on this one to put it into perspective ...
How many people died under a Carter scandal? Benghazi killed 11 total and the number due to Operation Fast and Furious continues to grow over time.
Did Carter ever use a wing of the government to attack his political enemies such as how the IRS was used in 2012?
Did the Carter administration ever allow anything akin to what the NSA is doing now?
Did the Carter administration allow spying on the News Media akin to what happened with the AP and other news networks?
Did the Carter administration increase the national debt by an amount equal to the debt of every president before him put together? (I know Bush administration also did this).
Darth Millennial
Gawd
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Taldren
Gawd
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I can't see the point of view of those that said "At least we tried" ... would you say the same to those that jump from building because they think they can fly? As sure as gravity pulls you down, this was also a completely predictable outcome.
This really puts the Government Shutdown in a new light. The entire reason it happened is because the Republicans said that O-Care was a train wreck and wanted the law appealed. This was watered down to just wanting a delay at the end, but Obama wouldn't negotiate and forced the shutdown to occur.
Well ... what has happened since? He ended up delaying most of O-Care anyway because it is a train wreck. As such I don't believe the Democrats are going to be able to use the shutdown in the 2014 elections anymore.
This really puts the Government Shutdown in a new light. The entire reason it happened is because the Republicans said that O-Care was a train wreck and wanted the law appealed. This was watered down to just wanting a delay at the end, but Obama wouldn't negotiate and forced the shutdown to occur.
Well ... what has happened since? He ended up delaying most of O-Care anyway because it is a train wreck. As such I don't believe the Democrats are going to be able to use the shutdown in the 2014 elections anymore.
He's a white-hat penetration tester. He is undoubtedly under NDA on how he did it. As a pen tester you can't give away your HOW you did it until time has passed where the organization has fixed it.
I can guarantee you that he used an attack on the OWASP Top 10.
lilbabycat
2[H]4U
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It would not surprise me if "hacking" into the system involved something as simple as renaming a few letters/numbers in one of the redirect URL's in between registration/log on.
Spot on. I'm a former Republican who was sick and tired of Bush growing government and spending like gold-digger wife. From my research Carter was a horrible POTUS so who knows what Reagan's legacy would have been if not for Carter although personally I loved Reagan. He was truly the last POTUS we had in recent memory that was a leader.
Obama is just awful. I simply do not understand how any person and history will not look back at this administration and see it as one of the most corrupt and incompetent in human history. Only the moochers and takers will cry on his last day in office.
None of these countries have the population numbers we have as a country. In addition, please research the horror stories from the UK's NHS and their waiting lists.
Maybe the system is like our missile defense system.
User account: admin
pasword: 00000000
If anecdotal horror stories are what qualify a system as a failure, then the US system has totally bombed. I'd rather be on a waiting list (the tales of which are horribly exaggerated for propaganda purposes) than have no health care at all because I can't afford it.
The goalposts are over here, not over there.
Hand the list of 70,000 names over to someone in the administration for verification. Did he do that? I'm not asking him to divulge how he did it -- I just want this to be more than "I have here in my hand a list of 205 communists working for state department."
On a different note, there's also a surprising amount of derp on this board considering the technical nature of the site. Idiotic comments about this administration being "the most corrupt in history" and stuff. Seriously, Google "indictments by presidential administration" and see what happens. Or, tell you what -- you pick the objective measure by which you want to compare this administration to others, and then we'll talk.
I don't think Obama is a saint, but this administration has been a hell of a lot more competent than the last one. Bitch all you want about his deficits, but those deficits have dropped significantly since year one -- in stark contrast to the guy before him, who was handed a surplus and turned it into $1.4 trillion of debt in his last budget year. President McCain would have also "increased the debt as much as every president before him" because he would have started from that same deep hole. President Romney, even if he dismantled Obamacare and adopted the Ryan budget on day one, would be in front of Congress right now asking for the debt ceiling to be raised.
Dude, Obamacare fixed nothing. In fact it made it worse. There are only three benefits to it. 1) eliminates pre-existing condition restrictions. 2) puts more people on medicaid and 3) lines the pockets of insurance companies. 4) you cna now keep "kids" on plans until 26 instead of 23.
I'll use myself as an example. I currently have a very nice health care plan. Between me and my employer we pay about $13k for a $15 co-pay for in network GP, $50 co-pay for in network ER, $50 co-pay for in network specialists, and $200 co-pay for out of network ER with 80% payment for out of network GPs, specialists, and hospitals up to a maximum out of pocket of about $16k. Translation, if I get hurt out of state or insist on seeing a specialist out of state, I may have to dig up $16k per year of treatment doing that. (for a family of 3 to infinity)
Looking at my options at helthcare.org, I can pay a minimum of $7200 for a family of three in premiums and for that I get a ~$6300 deductible per person with a total deductible of almost $13k. The network is very small, and I have less than a 50% chance of having any coverage wherever I go in state. Out of state has no network, so unless there are some friendly provisions in the fine print I don't have access to, don't travel. Which means that I have to pay over $13k in a year before I see any insurance kick in, and can be liable for over $20k of healthcare payments in any given year sticking to the rules.
Oddly enough, many of the bronze plans cost MORE than better silver plans. Also oddly, it doesn't matter what I pick as a plan at what level, I'm on the hook for about $13-20k a year in healthcare costs. The closest to my plan is a platinum plan whereif I combine it with the cheaper kid insurance, My annual cost is about $17k in premiums with no deductible and a maximum out of pocket of $4500. This is closest to my employer coverage, but has a smaller network. THe reality is that in no year have I ever exceeded the deductible for most of the plans although I have come close a couple times and exceeded it one year due to hitting up the local ER twice and they bill absurd rates.
Everything is worse than my employer plan, the insured pool is larger, and the premium is higher. Why? Because the insurance companies wrote the stupid ACA.
Even stupider, is you can take my brother who has less income, and he gets screwed even MORE than me in terms of percentage of take home pay it eats up compared to me DESPITE being eligible for a small subsidy.
So back to the benefits:
1) no pre-existing condition exceptions - already didn't exist with shared risk pool employer insurance. Benegfit for individual policies on the open market.
2) more people on medicaid - ok good for them, but even by the accounting form the president's accounting office well before the bill was passed, the net result was likely that it would largely be offset by essentially pricing the lower end of the middle class out of insurnace and leaving them with the fine/tax as the only financially feasible option. Their projections were that you would wind up with about a million more insured, the congressional accounting held that the provision would hold the line at about 30 million uninsured. OF course with the awesome economy, we have more uninsured, and I suspect their numbers were optimistic about the economy and the knock on effect to the viability of ACA compliant employer healthcare.
3) The insurance companies get people forced onto more expensive plans with less participating coverage, and they get slighty higher premiums form existing employer plans for extended coverage to the required level.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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Quite a few of the countries you listed have terrible healthcare systems. Single payer doesn't automatically mean it's good.
Anyway, this ACA thing (not single payer) is a huge fiasco.
Parja
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Right. According to TFA, it wasn't even a "hack". He just figured out the URL(s) to access the information directly and there apparently was no authentication or anything in place to keep him out.
Only 9, out of the 34 I listed, have a healthcare system which ranks lower than the US system (as per the WHO ranking). A few of the 9, ranked lower, are quite close to the US system, in ranking.
Zangmonkey
Supreme [H]ardness
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Wierdo
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Terrible by universal healthcare standards, we are at the bottom of the list. Canada is not the best system for a country with UH for example, but their system costs them around %10 of their GDP (vs %15 here), or ~$3,600 vs ~$6,700 in monetary terms.
Sweden, considered the national with #1 healthcare in the world by many, spends %9 of its GDP on healthcare and has almost half the infant mortality rates, that's crazy.
Wierdo
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Terrible by universal healthcare standards, we are at the bottom of the list. Canada is not the best system for a country with UH for example, but their system costs them around %10 of their GDP (vs %15 here), or ~$3,600 vs ~$6,700 in monetary terms.
Sweden, considered the national with #1 healthcare in the world by many, spends %9 of its GDP on healthcare and has almost half the infant mortality rates, that's crazy.
nation*
My Farmville for an edit button.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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There is a whole lot more to look at that WHO rankings. Greece, for example, has good health care, but if you've been unemployed for a year, you pay for your own out of your own pocket. The Ukraine and Russia have some of the worst life expectancy rates in developed countries. The healthcare in Oman is provided by westerners moving into the country due to the steadily increasing GDP. Costa Rica has a mostly unregulated prescription drug market. China has some of the worst health care on the planet, worse than much of Africa. Germany spends damn near as much as we do.
That's not to say healthcare in the US is the best. It isn't. We do have the edge when it comes to speed, technology and drugs - but we waste money like mad. A lot of this has to do with a strong need for tort reform, less price fixing, crazy Medicare regulations that spread to the rest of the industry, and the fact that we are fat.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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That info is very outdated.
You also have to take into account that those countries are mostly homogenous with their population. They don't have major issues with immigration and naturalization.
Krenum
Fully [H]
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You will be able to keep your doctor. Period.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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What if my doctor doesn't want me anymore?
sfsuphysics
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So you're way of thinking is to always trust the government and to be a good citizen who doesn't every question authority?
jbltecnicspro
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I had an el cheapo plan. High deductable. Guess what I did so that I could pay for something in case I had to use it? Saved my money until I had said deductable as an emergency fund. I think a big problem with a lot of people today is that no one knows how to plan for the future or manage their money for shit.
Krenum
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Weather your doctor wants to keep you or not is irrelevant.
Now your getting somewhere.
Tell us all why your doctor wouldn't want to keep you, and you will have the answer to your own question.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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I called his wife a fatty.
sfsuphysics
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???
Using wikipedia as my sole source on this (because I can't be dicked around to spending too much time on this) but the US 13% of it's residents are foreign born (including illegal immigrants) vs 14.3% for someplace like Sweden of which 9.2% actually outside of the EU.
So at the very least these countries are about the same homogenous makeup as the US. It will be interesting to see which way it goes though as there are have lots of "refugee" immigrants from outside the EU and with smaller populations that translates to a larger percentage of the population.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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You're merging two different thoughts here. First, the UN lists are based on legal immigration and estimates based on census information. Second, places like Sweden have much less cultural and ethnic diversity in comparison to the US. Sweden is one of the most white and western places on earth. Sweden has a much higher rate of legal immigration than illegal compared to the US.
RealityCrunch
[H]ard|Gawd
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Question is: Are those differences enough to put the US at 38th on the list and to require 50% more funding (% total of GDP) than countries who rank higher?
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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No, allowing medical and insurance cartels decide costs with the backing of the FDA and other regulatory bodies is, though. That's not something a single payer system would address directly.
In short - it's because the system and government are corrupt.
Want to buy a pack of tongue depressors? $50. Why? Some back room deal made between the insurance company, Medicare and the federal government.
CreepyUncleGoogle
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No, I don't. That would be super depressing.
sfsuphysics
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Yeah but the history of the $25 aspirin, or the $10 box of kleenex (one of those super small boxes with the stuff so rough you could sand smooth a tree with it), or etc... existed long before the government ever put it's hands into the game.
Taldren
Gawd
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Terrible by universal healthcare standards, we are at the bottom of the list. Canada is not the best system for a country with UH for example, but their system costs them around %10 of their GDP (vs %15 here), or ~$3,600 vs ~$6,700 in monetary terms.
Sweden, considered the national with #1 healthcare in the world by many, spends %9 of its GDP on healthcare and has almost half the infant mortality rates, that's crazy.
Wait, wait, wait ... those are socialized medical countries on the list and their health costs are still going up. That isn't possible!!
By the time the majority of people figure out that government created the problems so they could push their solutions onto us it will be too late.
Do me a favor, take those totals and put them in perspective to gold and see how they line up.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
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It actually did not. Rising medical costs came specifically from Medicare/Medicaid backed finance arrangements and the regulation of approved supply and equipment vendors. HMO and PPO inflate costs instead of deflate them.
Taldren
Gawd
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Here ... I'll help.
Gold prices per year (USD average)
2001 - 271.04
2002 - 309.73
2003 - 363.38
2004 - 409.72
2005 - 444.74
2006 - 603.46
2007 - 695.39
In 6 years, the price for gold increased by 256.6%? No ... the Value of the USD went DOWN, so it takes more dollars to do anything with. That is why record profits doesn't mean anything in a market that is being inflated.
G1. Killer
Limp Gawd
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I don't think you actually have looked into this matter. The Healthcare system has never been truly private. In fact after Woodrow Wilson one of the worse presidents it became regulated more and more by the government.
Wierdo
[H]ard|Gawd
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I think you nailed the problem: Rampant corruption.
The reason we can't have nice things is because corruption makes most project fall of their faces, they get half-assed like Obamacare, and then handed over to sleazy/incompetent contractors that won the lowest bid on an overpriced project - or perhaps cashed in on some special favors.
It doesn't matter what solution is put on the table, it'll cost much more than it should and be built on a shaky foundation to boot. This is why people here don't trust their gov with spending like others do abroad in some places, we have no faith in the execution whatsoever because of a consistently poor track record.
Wierdo
[H]ard|Gawd
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most projects fall on*