AMD: Doing The Work For Everyone

pxc said:
If your goal was to misinform, then you succeeded. :D

From TechReport's excellent coverage:

Proprietary and tied to GCN, at least according to people who know what they're talking about.

Does that clear it up?
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AMA with AMD states the opposite. I know a lot of Nvidia fans are giving themselves hemorrhoids trying to force the situation to seem otherwise.

Its tied to GCN for the development stages, yes, as a basis for using an existing and current GPU architecture to springboard off of: but this is not a permanent relationship. Once the standard is completed, AMD will release the 'blueprints' and allow anyone to develop architecture optimized for Mantle. They have never stated that this would not be the case.
 
What a bunch of corporate jerks.

All sarcasm aside, this is yet another example of the stark difference in philosophy at the two companies. Nvidia fanboys are worshipping the company that loves to fuck them at every opportunity. AMD is far from a perfect company, but any rational person would be forced to objectively conclude that, assuming equal performance, AMD deserves their money. They're a large company, and by definition they exist to tear as much money away from consumers as humanly possible. They just don't take it to the next level of dickitude like Nvidia does.
 
pcjunkie said:
Yes if Nvidia chooses to support it down the road.
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If it's so open that any gpu architecture can use it then why isn't it supported by 5xxx and 6xxx series radeons ?

Surely if nvidia can do it for their own gpu then it will be a piece of cake for AMD to add it to older GPUs right ?
 
Michaelius said:
If it's so open that any gpu architecture can use it then why isn't it supported by 5xxx and 6xxx series radeons ?

Surely if nvidia can do it for their own gpu then it will be a piece of cake for AMD to add it to older GPUs right ?
Click to expand...

I'm sure they could in the future, if they think it's a good idea. Right now they're just working on getting it to work with their current cards.
 
Michaelius said:
If it's so open that any gpu architecture can use it then why isn't it supported by 5xxx and 6xxx series radeons ?
Click to expand...

Someone will tell you how radically different it is from those cards, even though feature and performance show it's not to be the case.

AMD's reason is to focus on getting everything out the door. The real reason, to get everyone out the door and buy new graphic cards. Mantle is simply just a way to resale old hardware. Why rename the 7000 cards to 200? Keep buying that outed hardware.

I wonder if there was a person who owned a Radeon hd 7870 that went and bought a 270X? There's bound to be someone that did.
 
KazeoHin said:
AMA with AMD states the opposite. I know a lot of Nvidia fans are giving themselves hemorrhoids trying to force the situation to seem otherwise.
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Q. How's Mantle going to be compatible with Fermi/Kepler/Maxwell etc. or Intel's HD graphics? Will you be forced to maintain backwards compatibility with GCN in future?

A. Mantle depends on the Graphics Core Next ISA. We hope that the design principles of Mantle will achieve broader adoption, and we intend to release an SDK in 2014. In the meantime, interest developers can contact us to begin a relationship of collaboration, working on the API together in its formative stages. As for “backwards compatibility,” I think it’s a given that any graphics API is architected for forward-looking extensibility while being able to support devices of the past. Necessary by design?
 
Michaelius said:
If it's so open that any gpu architecture can use it then why isn't it supported by 5xxx and 6xxx series radeons ?

Surely if nvidia can do it for their own gpu then it will be a piece of cake for AMD to add it to older GPUs right ?
Click to expand...

I'm sure certain fan boys want to pick a fight but I'm not going to oblige and just say yes.
 
Ultimately it's going to come down to putting AMD's solution side-by-side with NVIDIA's solution and seeing which of the two is better.
 
As someone who's been in this hobby for the past almost 20 years, I can say that AMD may not always deliver on it's promises. Hell, their track record will show you that. However, the tech they do advance and deliver has traditionally be beneficial for all. Maybe not directly, but through competition people benefited. Anyone remember 3dnow? Wasn't a big adoption, but hell if it didn't boost Quake FPS something serious. When Intel was mocking the importance of FPU(pre GPU days) the Athlon came along and stomped Intel in that regard(not all areas, but FPU was great). Athlon 64 was first consumer 64 bit cpu and Intel laughed up until they got on board. Integrated memory controller? AMD. List goes on. I thought their merger with ATI set them back 5+ years due to their fiscal dilemma they got into afterwards. However, maybe in the long run it will prove to be a wise choice. I run Intel and Nvidia now, but I do miss my AMD cpus, mainly b/c I like the underdog and even if they are slower, they are still cheaper and fast enough for anything I do. Their GPU's are competitive with Nvidia, but are less efficient in terms of watts per performance, similar to how AMD cpus are less efficient vs Intel counterparts. FACT. Yet, whomever bashes AMD is pretty damm shortsighted in if AMD were to go out of business tomorrow, what do the sheeple think will happen to Nvidia's already stupid pricing???? Or Intel for that matter? I guess you all don't remember the days of paying $450 for a lower end performance cpu. AMD brought us Duron's socket A for @$60 that could with some finesse/oc run with top end stock cpus in most games, similar to the value of the Celeron 300A/333A's yet for a third of the price :). Hate on AMD all you want, but AMD has helped us all to enjoy the state of tech as we know it. Of course Intel has played a bigger role as well, but tell me honestly that Intel would be where they were at today w/out being pushed into their advancements by AMD. We'd probably still have P4 toasters that ironically are the older/slower version of Bulldozer lol. I'm still scratching my head at how AMD though that tech with long pipes was a good idea, but who knows! Maybe they can make it work eventually, but I'm hoping they have some back up plans.
 
Ashbringer said:
Nvidia isn't doing their customers any favors with their technology. Gsync and Physx are just some examples of how Nvidia is trying to lock customers in. It's great if you intend to always buy an Nvidia graphics card, but sucks if you plan to venture to AMD or even Intel.
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If AMD and Nv shared the same tech, what would make them different? Why either should exist separately?
A customer that uses Nvidia features on a products they don't make money on does nothing for Nvidia.
How does giving it away for free for AMD users to use benefit Nv?

You think customers will make a emotional decision to buy Nvidia next time because they where so generous? lol yeah right.
Most customers buy what they can afford first, performance second, and features third.
 
That's actually a pretty awesome comment coming from a company.

Kudos to AMD on this one!
 
Nvidia: "HEY EVERYONE, HEY EVERYONE: G SYNC IS A THING AND IT IS SUPER IMPORTANT TRUST US PAY US MONEYS"

AMD: "K, but we can do it for everyone and for free. just say'n..."

Nvidia: "Psh our totally necessary solution is for US and US ONLY BECAUSE REASONS, by the way, money."

AMD: "Aint no thang, we got this."
 
WorldExclusive said:
If AMD and Nv shared the same tech, what would make them different? Why either should exist separately?
A customer that uses Nvidia features on a products they don't make money on does nothing for Nvidia.
How does giving it away for free for AMD users to use benefit Nv?

You think customers will make a emotional decision to buy Nvidia next time because they where so generous? lol yeah right.
Most customers buy what they can afford first, performance second, and features third.
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Why should Intel and AMD exist separate then?
IBM developed the X86, Intel and AMD refined it.
If it wasn't for the cross license agreement between Intel and AMD we all might be running ARM or Power PC chips right now. That agreement made the X86 explode and become the backbone of modern computing.
Hell if Intel hadn't paid companies like Dell and HP to keep AMD out, Intel and AMD could have very easily flipped positions and we'd be rooting for Intel as the underdog. Too bad damage was done. Intel paid its fines and kept its throne.

Imagine if AMD and Nvidia did the same.
Cuda, Physx and Mantle fully supported on all GPUs.
And with Mantle fully supported, PC gaming transcends Windows.
Free BSD, Linux, Windows, OSX... They all get a big immediate boost, cross platform coding becomes easier because now its ONE language instead of 100, we all win.
 
Won't be the first time AMD has done something like this. CPU companies are used to doing these kinds of things, making tech for everyone to use. AMD gave us x86-64, Intel gave us shiznit like PCI and PCI-Express. Both have given us a ton of stuff. Surprisingly, nVidia did allow FXAA to work on Radeons. I have no idea how FreeSync will turn out though. We need this shit to come out so sites like HardOCP can give us the real lowdown on it. Speaking of which, can't wait for HardOCP to tell us their own experiences with G-Sync, cuz I still ain't sold on dat either.
 
So where can we get Freesync? I could not find any information on AMDs site about it.
 
Were I flush with disposable income, I would probably try an NVidia card again after about 12 years ( I cannot afford both an amd and an NVidia). I've always gone with ATI/AMD but had thought to try NVidia sometime again, esp after the titan. But the corp has always irritated me with it's arrogance and it's bent toward proprietary ownership. Now hearing AMD's commitment to the community of human gamers I think I'll stay loyal. I'd love to be able to buy the top end cards from both and compare them for myself, but that's unlikely unless I win the lotto. Anyway, thanks AMD.
 
Our company really cares about you.
-Marketing Guy

Omg they care! <3
-Idiots
 
bexamous said:
Our company really cares about you.
-Marketing Guy

Omg they care! <3
-Idiots
Click to expand...

Care? No... LoL... working with open standards can be smart business long term vs. short term proprietary gains.

Sigh...
 
bexamous said:
Our company really cares about you.
-Marketing Guy

Omg they care! <3
-Idiots
Click to expand...

You came here just to say this?
So dont praise a company for doing something thats appreciated and see how that turns out.
Spin it how you want, your post tells us more about the bland life you lead :p
 
Michaelius said:
If it's so open that any gpu architecture can use it then why isn't it supported by 5xxx and 6xxx series radeons ?
Click to expand...

Nobody said any architecture can use it. That, however, does *NOT* mean it is tied to a specific piece of hardware architecture nor does it mean it's proprietary.

Take, for example, literally every fucking version of DirectX and OpenGL. They weren't compatible with old hardware, but they were not proprietary and not tied to a specific architecture.

Or, put another way, Mantle is DirectX 12 and so far only GCN supports DX12, but Nvidia is free to make hardware that supports DX12. There, make sense?
 
Nvidia, Titan for over a grand..... No next gen console contracts, 290x for half the price ( on paper ) now Crypto currency....

They make great cards but AMD seems to be making smarts decisions and getting lucky, and luck is important..

I see Nvidia really over delivering on their next big thing.
 
Nenu said:
You came here just to say this?
So dont praise a company for doing something thats appreciated and see how that turns out.
Spin it how you want, your post tells us more about the bland life you lead :p
Click to expand...

Praise what again?

One company is releasing some product and another company's marketing guy is doing his job of spewing some bullshit. For standards his lists is GDDR5 that AMD had nothing to do with. And then Mantle which is 100% made by AMD. Where is the "we know that the biggest advancements come when all industry players collaborate?" If AMD was seeking this why didn't they bring Mantle to Khronos perhaps and get feedback from Intel and Nvidia? See how Apple handled OpenCL. Maybe Khronos wouldn't be ideal but where is AMD collaborating with anyone else? And then the last item is FreeSync, which the only thing AMD really came up with was the name. As they point out its an optional part of eDP and soon DP1.3. Where is AMD's part? Basiaclly in summary "We'll do whatever benefits us the most." Oh how surprisng.
 
bexamous said:
Praise what again?

One company is releasing some product and another company's marketing guy is doing his job of spewing some bullshit.
Click to expand...
I'm sad for you.
Freesync is what most of us wanted, not a heavily overpriced version that only sells on specific high Hz monitors.
Its main advantage is at low framerates not high.
Its great that NVidia developed it first, but its cheap and easy to do so NVidia are shooting themselves in the foot by overcharging and limiting it to a few monitors.

For standards his lists is GDDR5 that AMD had nothing to do with.
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I still like Freesync.

And then Mantle which is 100% made by AMD.
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Good job too otherwise we wouldnt be getting it.
I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do.

Where is the "we know that the biggest advancements come when all industry players collaborate?" If AMD was seeking this why didn't they bring Mantle to Khronos perhaps and get feedback from Intel and Nvidia?
Click to expand...
Because they did it in house. If you have the ability, why complicate the issue by contracting it out.
If Khronos were all that, there would be no need for Mantle.

See how Apple handled OpenCL. Maybe Khronos wouldn't be ideal but where is AMD collaborating with anyone else? And then the last item is FreeSync, which the only thing AMD really came up with was the name. As they point out its an optional part of eDP and soon DP1.3. Where is AMD's part? Basiaclly in summary "We'll do whatever benefits us the most." Oh how surprisng.
Click to expand...
If you bothered to read the posts in this thread you would know that AMD are opening up Mantle to other devs.

Re Freesync, AMD will supply the driver code and make sure their gfx cards handle the new vblank timing.
They will also have a hand in devising the specs.

You come across as all that, but you come up short on the basics.
 
Mantle sounds cool. Freesync sounds cool, too. So do PhysX, G-sync, CUDA, and OpenCL.

I don't care.

I buy the card(s) that will give me the best performance for the price I'm willing to pay when I buy. Most "recently" I went from 2xGTX260 to 2xHD6950 (modded to 6970) to a single GTX770.

AMD's repeated delays of frame pacing for X-fire + Eyefinity meant the 6950s had to go. I picked up Skyrim from Steam's holiday sale and the microstutter was ridiculous. It didn't bother me for the 3 years I ran X-fire, but for some reason, it is just out of control on my rig in Skyrim.

I would have liked an R9 290x, but I'm not paying MSRP+$100 for one. A single 770 is doing well, and I can grab another one and SLI them to get 780 Ti-level performance for about the same price in the end.

I've been around long enough to see the dick moves from both Red and Green, and Green has racked up a far bigger score. In fact, since AMD bought ATI, their worst dick move is simple lack of execution (like frame pacing right now), while Green's dick moves are fully intentional "business strategy".
 
So long as AMD hands mantle off to the Khronos group or apache or something then I'm all for it. Making it AMD only would make it a modern glide.
 
jfreund said:
It didn't bother me for the 3 years I ran X-fire, but for some reason, it is just out of control on my rig in Skyrim.
Click to expand...

Skyrim has no microsutter, only DX9 has micro-stutter.

What you are describing is the placebo effect.
 
Moving the industry forward with broken switchable graphics (Enduro), Broken frame pacing for Crossfire, review samples that ran fans at different RPM from retail, and copy cat vaporware free sync.

I cant contain my excitement. Oh wait I mean that's all being worked on in software. Hold on it will be fixed whenever.
 
pxc said:
Using variable VBLANK to implement a variable refresh rate will require a particular way of doing it. It's fine that AMD will give away a particular solution which works with its own GPUs, but that doesn't really help any other manufacturers who could do it in any number of other specific ways (because other hardware controls it differently, there are better ways to do it, etc). This is what you get without industry standards, just another proprietary solution that masquerades as "open".

Dumb, hot-air PR. The rubes should eat it up.
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Whooa,
Take another look.
What AMD is supporting is a relative new features in the VESA display specs.
This is NOT something proprietary to AMD products.
Nvidia could have more easily gone the same direction but they chose on a proprietary technology you have to buy from them and their partners.

This is exactly the SAME approach over stereo 3D support. Nvidia solution was all proprietary, AMD was open making theirs work on 3rd party 3D software and 3D monitors that was already on the market.

AMD his on the high ground here. Open technologies are always a win-win for consumers.
 
Came expecting legions of fanboys, left satisfied.


Spazturtle said:
Skyrim has no microsutter, only DX9 has micro-stutter.

What you are describing is the placebo effect.
Click to expand...

You can keep saying this, but it won't make it true. Plenty of DX9 games work fine on AMD, Skyrim and the gamebryo engine have a habit of not being one of those. It stutters with a single card, let alone two.
 
I've started a new game of Skyrim (level 17) heavily modded with my 290 and it is so smooth its still surprising.
There is the odd moment when in a cavern that it jerks, but the rest of the time it is completely fluid.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
Whooa,
Take another look.
What AMD is supporting is a relative new features in the VESA display specs.
This is NOT something proprietary to AMD products.
Nvidia could have more easily gone the same direction but they chose on a proprietary technology you have to buy from them and their partners.

This is exactly the SAME approach over stereo 3D support. Nvidia solution was all proprietary, AMD was open making theirs work on 3rd party 3D software and 3D monitors that was already on the market.

AMD is on the high ground here. Open technologies are always a win-win for consumers.
Click to expand...

Hmm are they really ?
When the technology is open there is no force behind it to push it's adoption.

OpenGL games are a drop in a sea compared to DirectX stuff
OpenCL as alternative to PhysX is literally non existing
OpenCL is losing to CUDA
AMD open linux drivers are tragic compared to closed Nvidia ones
Nvidia 3D is lot more popular
TresFX was used in 1 game

So no as a consumer I don't feel like a winner because technology is open when noone uses it.
 
AMD is dumb here.

The beauty of free markets is making everything proprietary and getting every last drop of cash you can. Making things open and not taking every last cent you can is bad. Which is why AMD is fucked on CPUs.
 
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