The Steam Machines

My only interest is in the biometric reading stuff that has been hinted towards (imagine zombies sensing your fear as was quoted in one of the articles). Rest of the controller sucks ass given the number of buttons and also unnamed buttons at the bottom that don't make sense to me.

As for K+M feel on a console controller. Jury is still out on that one given so limited info about the controller.
 
flegg said:
But your own PC won't come with complimentary steam trading cards and badges.
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And probably free games. I would think Valve will have to start offering free games to keep these selling.

LeviathanZERO said:
The link is in the OP.
These obviously are not for you, but my brother who hasn't had a new computer since 2004, and is a console nut, is in the market. 8GB of RAM and an R9 for $499? That isn't a bad deal at all. Look at the video cards on some of these, the low end is priced pretty aggressively. Don't forget you also get an OS, new controller and power connections. Not bad at all.
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And what does this do that an Xbox One/PS4 won't do for a console gamer? Serious question. It is a bit faster... free online?

I doubt the "tweaking" aspect will appear to him since he gave up PCs in 2004.

Domini said:
They are console like, it was never said that every machine would have a standard. Besides its a PC which you can upgrade yourself!
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And will Steam OS support the amount of hardware/drivers with the same quality that Windows does? Are those tiny cases with little expansion room really ideal for upgrading? What if a new GPU is too big? Or the cooler it comes with does not work with the case? Will a console gamer even care to tinker with his system? And won't a PC gamer prefer a high end PC with a large case with nice cooling/expansion room?
 
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Flogger23m said:
And what does this do that an Xbox One/PS4 won't do for a console gamer? Serious question. It is a bit faster... free online?
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Those don't play Civ.
You are all missing the main pull of these boxes, PC games.

I doubt the "tweaking" aspect will appear to him since he gave up PCs in 2004.
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That has nothing to do with it.
 
I see these totally failing. When someone pays $1000 for one of these and doesn't see a huge improvement over his $400 PS4 he's going to cry foul, and I don't blame him. I don't understand why any of you are backing these. Valve should concentrate on it's OS if that's what their true intentions are.
 
You're telling me Valve somehow magically made a joystick that feels like a mouse after dozens of companies have failed over dozens of years?

I believe it when I see it.
 
Focker said:
I see these totally failing. When someone pays $1000 for one of these and doesn't see a huge improvement over his $400 PS4 he's going to cry foul, and I don't blame him. I don't understand why any of you are backing these. Valve should concentrate on it's OS if that's what their true intentions are.
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Me too.
 
i dont see them failing, pre built pc's still have a very large market share over build it your self ones, plus some of them have dual boot windows and steam os.

so if you want to buy a small form factor pre built pc that packs a punch the steam box looks like the best choice, and the 1000$ steam box's are a lot more powerful than the xbone or ps4, even the 500$ one looks pretty close spec wise especially once you get mantle with that 270x in future games.

steam box is not for most people here at HardOCP we already know how to build a htpc, its for people that want to try pc gaming but in their living room with no real setup required.

would i buy one? no. is there a market for it? very much so.
 
Wildace said:
...its for people that want to try pc gaming but in their living room with no real setup required.
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And the main question is, do people want to use a (limited) PC in the living room? Why will people, who do not want to game on a PC, suddenly want to game on a limited PC simply because it is in the living room?

The location maybe part of it, but then why not buy a standardized console like the PS4/One? Clearly, speed and updatability is low on the typical console gamers list of important features.

The only market I see for this are people who like tech gadgets and will buy one simply to test it out and see how it is, while the mainstream will continue to buy regular consoles or build their own, more capable PCs.
 
there are other reason to want a steam box over a console.

you have more freedom than a locked in console platform. pc exclusives might be another reason to consider one, there are vastly more pc games than both consoles combined and more ways to purchase those games on pc.
 
Wildace said:
i dont see them failing, pre built pc's still have a very large market share over build it your self ones, plus some of them have dual boot windows and steam os.

so if you want to buy a small form factor pre built pc that packs a punch the steam box looks like the best choice, and the 1000$ steam box's are a lot more powerful than the xbone or ps4, even the 500$ one looks pretty close spec wise especially once you get mantle with that 270x in future games.

steam box is not for most people here at HardOCP we already know how to build a htpc, its for people that want to try pc gaming but in their living room with no real setup required.

would i buy one? no. is there a market for it? very much so.
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Try playing BF4 on one of the pre-built PCs as shown for 499/599. Then go play it on a PS4. Come back and tell me which plays better.
Also, not to mention the Valve OS may not even run BF4 considering it is an Origin exclusive lol.
 
Focker said:
I see these totally failing. When someone pays $1000 for one of these and doesn't see a huge improvement over his $400 PS4 he's going to cry foul, and I don't blame him. I don't understand why any of you are backing these. Valve should concentrate on it's OS if that's what their true intentions are.
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This IS Valve "concentrating on its OS". And you personally "not understanding" Steam Machines will have little impact on what is a longterm play that we are only in the beginnings of. Anyone but the most short-sighted sees possibilities in this: a console that plays mods, can take advantage of Steam sales, isn't locked down and walled off from modifications like a PS/xbox, doesnt have a windows tax associated with the upfront cost like a traditional gaming PC, doesnt have a render path thats held hostage behind a windows paywall in order to gain the latest graphical advancements, the list goes on.

Plenty of naysayers screamed into a pillow about Steam originally too, and that it would not take off. Where are they now? Probably playing a game on Steam.
 
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Consoles are an anachronism from the '80s. The only reason to buy one today is for some exclusive game title, which is an awful reason.

This is the last console generation (and it's already worn out its welcome). Valve has a headstart on the next gen.
 
KickAssCop said:
Try playing BF4 on one of the pre-built PCs as shown for 499/599. Then go play it on a PS4. Come back and tell me which plays better.
Also, not to mention the Valve OS may not even run BF4 considering it is an Origin exclusive lol.
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wont be hard, you can dual boot, some come with it. you can play every pc game on a steambox also the steam OS will get mantle support too so you eventually can play bf4 on the steam os.
 
jwcalla said:
Consoles are an anachronism from the '80s. The only reason to buy one today is for some exclusive game title, which is an awful reason.

This is the last console generation (and it's already worn out its welcome). Valve has a headstart on the next gen.
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Doubt it. People want to buy hardware and be done with it. Most people don't care much about pushing graphical/technological limits, and certainly do not care about opening up a system. It is probably a large reason why console games out sell PC games.
 
Flogger23m said:
Doubt it. People want to buy hardware and be done with it. Most people don't care much about pushing graphical/technological limits, and certainly do not care about opening up a system. It is probably a large reason why console games out sell PC games.
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The current speculation is pressure will come from mobile devices, embedded PCs, and the "cloud" (or home cloud) which essentially offer the same advantages (cost, convenience) and trade offs (hardware capability) as current consoles have over the PC.

One caveat here would still be the developer support angle. A platform owner would still be in the best position to attract developer support since they benefit directly from such support compared to open systems and as such be willing to invest the most in doing so.
 
DPI said:
This IS Valve "concentrating on its OS". And you personally "not understanding" Steam Machines will have little impact on what is a longterm play that we are only in the beginnings of. Anyone but the most short-sighted sees possibilities in this: a console that plays mods, can take advantage of Steam sales, isn't locked down and walled off from modifications like a PS/xbox, doesnt have a windows tax associated with the upfront cost like a traditional gaming PC, doesnt have a render path thats held hostage behind a windows paywall in order to gain the latest graphical advancements, the list goes on.

Plenty of naysayers screamed into a pillow about Steam originally too, and that it would not take off. Where are they now? Probably playing a game on Steam.
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YOU are one of THOSE who doesn't understand the majority of console users CANNOT afford a decent steambox/pc/etc. When YOU understand THAT you'll be better off.

I have 3 brothers and a few cousins who I've been gaming with for over 20 years... they're all married with kids and average income. I've lived the bachelor life and have few responsibilities. They all love my computer setup and the games I have for it. And I only spent $1,000 building my average to decent pc. They simply don't care to spend even that much. I've told them I could probably build them decent pc's that can play games at 1080p at not much more than what a Xbox One costs. They simply don't care/want to. I really can't blame them. So I get stuck playing GTA V on the 360 now and then. Game is horrible, but they love it and I have fun playing with them. They are the majority of gamers.
 
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Focker said:
YOU are one of THOSE who doesn't understand the majority of console users CANNOT afford a decent steambox/pc/etc. When YOU understand THAT you'll be better off.
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Well price isn't a valid excuse anymore...

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2xNKg = $542~

You can even go second hand parts if you trust the source and get it for less. But $550 vs. $500 or $400 with games being less expensive on PC really kills the "affordability" argument. And with consoles having huge installs and massive updates, the whole "pop a game in and play" argument also goes out the window. Well that part has been out the window since the last generation. It's still less expensive in the long run to go with a computer gaming rig.
 
MikeTrike said:
Well price isn't a valid excuse anymore...

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/2xNKg = $542~

You can even go second hand parts if you trust the source and get it for less. But $550 vs. $500 or $400 with games being less expensive on PC really kills the "affordability" argument. And with consoles having huge installs and massive updates, the whole "pop a game in and play" argument also goes out the window. Well that part has been out the window since the last generation.
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That PC is pretty poor. If you think that will be easily handling new games in a few years, you are sadly mistaken. A lot of super budget PCs quickly become disappointing PCs within 2 or 3 years.

And most PS4 games are ready to play seconds after popping in the disc, they install the game while you are playing the game.
 
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A PC doesn't slow down over time.
An Xbox1 or PS4 will not be playing new games at max detail in a few years either.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
A PC doesn't slow down over time.
An Xbox1 or PS4 will not be playing new games at max detail in a few years either.
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ocellaris said:
That PC is pretty poor. If you think that will be easily handling new games in a few years, you are sadly mistaken. A lot of super budget PCs quickly become disappointing PCs within 2 or 3 years.

And most PS4 games are ready to play seconds after popping in the disc, they install the game while you are playing the game.
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And it's still cheaper if you buy a new GPU 2-3 years down the road.
 
The stupid is strong in this thread. Can't believe how much people want to white knight valve in this forum.
 
As opposed to the black knight, who gets his arms and legs chopped off, yet still doesn't give up the fight?
 
ocellaris said:
That PC is pretty poor. If you think that will be easily handling new games in a few years, you are sadly mistaken. A lot of super budget PCs quickly become disappointing PCs within 2 or 3 years.

And most PS4 games are ready to play seconds after popping in the disc, they install the game while you are playing the game.
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The one thing that people seem to forget about PCs is that settings can be changed and even low settings will still look better than consoles on some games. If you want to run Ultra for every game that comes out, then yes you will be spending a good chunk of money. Guess what, its another great advantage to a PC! You can spend what you want in order to get the performance you desire, unlike consoles that are stuck with the same or worse over the lifetime.
Console games "optimize" just so they can run at a pathetic 30fps. Dont give me that bullshit that consoles magically "improve" either.
 
Focker said:
YOU are one of THOSE who doesn't understand the majority of console users CANNOT afford a decent steambox/pc/etc. When YOU understand THAT you'll be better off.

I have 3 brothers and a few cousins who I've been gaming with for over 20 years... they're all married with kids and average income. I've lived the bachelor life and have few responsibilities. They all love my computer setup and the games I have for it. And I only spent $1,000 building my average to decent pc. They simply don't care to spend even that much. I've told them I could probably build them decent pc's that can play games at 1080p at not much more than what a Xbox One costs. They simply don't care/want to. I really can't blame them. So I get stuck playing GTA V on the 360 now and then. Game is horrible, but they love it and I have fun playing with them. They are the majority of gamers.
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A real pc gamers doesn't let family or friends that they CARE ABOUT play games on consoles. Sell them on a decent pc, even one at $500.
 
CMadki4 said:
The more the Valve Steam Machine story develops, the more I find myself scratching my head asking "aren't these just pre-built PC from various mfg.'s with a special OS?"

I am obviously a big fan of the steambox concept, as I've made several of my own, down to the custom case. But I feel like the "Steam Machine" initiative is just putting a different spin on hardware/systems that have alread been available (Falcon Northwest, Alienware, Digital Storm, white box builds, etc.)

The big difference between a PC and an official "Steam Machine" seems to be the OS, and from what I gather the OS will actual limit what the hardware can do over using traditional Windows OS.

I have a PC.... in a console-like case.... with 4 wireless controllers sync'd to an internal receiver.... which launches straight into Steam Big Picture Mode (WIn7).... Is this not a "steam machine"?

I don't get it. But I am happy to see something "new-ish" hit the tech scene once and awhile.
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This is all a good thing why are you bothered. The advantage to steam machines is that for the first time ever we have a company bringing solutions to age old problems with the HTPC and gaming and doing it in an open way that allows others to enjoy and support the solutions. And the best part is this company will probably die if they do not succeed here. So they have all the motivation in the world to make it happen unlike any company before.

The best HTPC controllers are shitty Xbox 360 controllers with garbage D-pads and and even more stupid dongle that is not being built into any computers. Now we have something different that we can put on our HTPCs.

For the vast majority of history no one could walk into a best buy and even find an HTPC in any section let alone the gaming section that would fit in their entertainment center. Valve might be able to change this. Sure you can build your own HTPC but can you build one for a stranger on the internet? Probably not but you can tell him to order a steam machine or pick one up in best buy.

What steam machines can do is not revolutionary or even amazing in fact it is pretty basic, just give HTPC users some of the nice advantages of consoles, really simple shit, local multiplayer games and input, easy to fit in normal entertainment centers. Usable without a keyboard and mouse. etc.....
 
Domini said:
Console games "optimize" just so they can run at a pathetic 30fps. Dont give me that bullshit that consoles magically "improve" either.
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Consoles definitely improve through developer optimization and experience. Look at PS3 and XBox launch games compared to the current games.
 
So... all the squabbling in this thread aside, what's the real point of a Steam machine? I'm genuinely curious I guess. My own conclusion right now is that it's for people who don't want to build their own PC. It's a convenient product they can buy along the lines of a console that they can just turn on and use without too much effort. Even if they were to buy a pre-built PC, they have to worry about specs and whether or not it can run a game etc. So I guess the Steam machine is just something that says "I will work for you out of the box". That's fine and great I think. Although, I think this is the immediate appeal; I think Valve is also banking on this for a long term strategy of decoupling itself from MS and Windows altogether down the road. Once they want to do this eventually, they'll have all the groundwork in place I guess.

What I'm wondering right now:
- For people like us, is there any point to a Steam machine right now?
- What can it play? The games on Steam that are Linux compatible (or I guess specifically compatible with its OS)? Is that it?
 
ocellaris said:
Consoles definitely improve through developer optimization and experience. Look at PS3 and XBox launch games compared to the current games.
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Sure they improve lol because they aren't porting games from the previous generation after a year or 2. I wouldn't exactly call that improvement. So what each driver release improves PC games. Same shit different name. The difference is console proponents talk like the improvements can make a mid level powered machine into a high level machine 2 years in the future. It is some fantastic Kool-Aid. But most of the more realistic people don't fall for this.

Over the years many of the advantages of consoles have dwindled and the new generation only shows that more no longer are consoles things were you put a game in and play, now its, well maybe there is a system update, maybe the game needs an update, maybe you need to install the game. All the things people used to complain about on PCs are now a part of consoles and this is why the whole argument about optimization has come up now days because without that argument consoles have almost nothing left that makes them different than a PC.

The last big advantage to a console is that they can push a different hardware input device that the PC makers have a hard time getting by. So one advantage is multiple controllers, but now days with so many people using a console as gaming device for MP COD and similar games tons of games don't even ship with local multiplayer and a huge user base has no interest in that. Next up is unique input devices, the big one of this generation is Kinect 2, but lol seems most of the console players seem to think that Kinect 2 is the problem. But wait consoles are a good value right, not anymore... It used to be the console makers would lose significant money in order to get sales early in the game but now they are just buying mid level gaming computers and selling them close to what they cost meaning the big loss leader early on is no longer an advantage.

So pretty much all a console boils down to now days is that you can go buy one that is preconfigured for a TV room. And steam will now be attacking that advantage in 2014.
 
ocellaris said:
Consoles definitely improve through developer optimization and experience. Look at PS3 and XBox launch games compared to the current games.
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Game engines are bound to improve overtime, but optimization on a console basically cripples the game until it runs at 30fps. You either have poor eyesight or are sitting 30ft away from your tv to not notice that its awful.

Luckily this "generation" will be close to 1080p
 
ManofGod said:
So, Dell/ Alienware is going to sell one. None of these machines will be cheap by the looks of it but, if they have good warranties, it could be interesting.
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This right here. It'll all come down to the warranty and customer service.
 
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