The Bitcoin market has crahed, get ready for a flood of cheap cards on eBay.

johnny* said:
Hopefully sooner rather than later... anything to bring normalcy back to GPU pricing is welcomed.
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The problem will be they are going to be Memory bandwidth bound, the same as GPUs, the only trade off will be you get better power / heat however the price will be pretty high since they are custom made chips.
 
iGrooCk said:
If Bitcoin and other cryptos will continue to get pounded by this sort of news then people will get scared and sell, its how the markets work. Speculation drives companies out of business, its rather simple.
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Bitcoin and ilk are not a company.
 
xIronCrossx said:
Seriously, how clueless can one individual be. You would be a horrible stock market trader. OMG IT DROPPED IN VALUE, QUICK SELL EVERYTHING! :rolleyes:

Oh and cheap cards are a win-win for everyone.
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This is incredibly naive. You would be a horrible stock trader.

If the price were definitely going to go up, people would pay more for the item. The speculation of growth or crash is built into the price, that is decided by the market. A lot of the people speculating on the BTC instrument are doing so based on intuition alone. Many of the traders deciding the fair price through their speculative analysis are very inexperienced, so you end up with this highly volatile instrument.

Almost all of the value of BTC that you see today is based solely on speculation. It has little/no value otherwise. There is no physical substance backing it, no government controlling it, it's value is 100% scarcity and speculation. This makes it a very risky investment.
 
astyler said:
Almost all of the value of BTC that you see today is based solely on speculation. It has little/no value otherwise. There is no physical substance backing it, no government controlling it, it's value is 100% scarcity and speculation. This makes it a very risky investment.
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Why yes, a unit of account with near instantaneous transfer, no counterparty risk, and a decentralized transaction ledger secured by the most powerful computing effort ever undertaken by humans has little/no value.

Glad you cleared that up for us.
 
jojo69 said:
Why yes, a unit of account with near instantaneous transfer, no counterparty risk, and a decentralized transaction ledger secured by the most powerful computing effort ever undertaken by humans has little/no value.

Glad you cleared that up for us.
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Although it can be useful, there is no value backing this cryptocurrency versus any other.
 
First of all, Bitcoin has had crashes like this before and there were many "OMG ITS GONE LAWL" cries then, but it came back up. It happened shortly before the jump to 900 in fact. This is one of those situations where it really doesn't matter too much if China wants to outlaw the exchange of bitcoin for other currencies; marketplaces will go elsewhere. MtGox for instance is based in Japan and always has been. Chinese *coin users will do what they do when their government blocks something on the net - get around it and use remote services.

As far as the prices, I doubt there will be huge sales of extra cheap GPUs at a rush simply because of this. Anyone who is investing enough in these things to buy GPUs specifically for mining, won't sell off because the thing dropped currently. I hope it means that demand will go down a bit and prices will drop back to normal for R9 cards perhaps, but I don't expect people are hawking their GPUs immediately.

As far as ASICs/FPGAs are concerned, I really hope they don't come to Scrypt-based currencies - we saw what they did to the BTC mining pool and it was really horrible except for the few with huge amounts of money to buy ASICs. Adding ASICs to bitcoin mining is like running a drag race, and allowing people walking (CPUs, free but painfully slow), driving a tiny off the shelf stock old hatchback car (GPUs, affordable but more expensive than walking but much faster), and driving a drag racer/ rocket car (ASICs, specialized, expensive, orders of magnitude faster) ALL to compete against each other. Note there are hardly any cheap-ish ASICs - for a while Butterfly Labs was selling a $200 model, but now they're only selling much more expensive ones. Trying to get into Bitcoin today with anything less than hundreds or thousands of $ worth ASIC hardware probably won't end up being even mildly profitable. I don't want this to happen to Litecoin and the like, so that the wealth will actually be spread out a bit and it may have a larger usable lifespan in mining.

There are some cryptocurrencies that have additional features designed to be "useful" beyond simply as a commodity or currency. For instance Namecoin (which, I believe sadly is SHA256, like BTC. I thought it was Scrypt) is perhaps the most famous as it is a currency which is also attached to a distributed, censorship-and-data-mining-resistant DNS. Anoncoin is specifically designed with additional security layers (and this is scrypt based) and exchanges can be easily made over i2P/Tor and other darknets, including automated coin-mixers in darknets to allow you the reliability of the coins, while not giving up your privacy when you use them. Peercoin is meant to consume less electricity and also have some other benefits. There are others out there too, but those are some of the most promising.
 
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doz said:
Except the fact that there is nothing backing crypto currencies. With stocks, you will have fluctuation due to changes in the market, company, product, ect. What is changing crypto currencies? Who regulates it? Its a very grey area that I dont believe will ever be something substantial. Gives those people who are anti-government something to hope for. In the meantime, a few people will make some money and a few people will lose some money. Its up to each individual whether he takes that chance.
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There is nothing backing the US dollar, there is nothing backing stocks. So what if the government promises you that your bank account is insured for 100K. They can print off 100K in 2 seconds. There is no gold backing it, no other commodity. It's just a cloth blend with some ink on it that people collectively think is valuable.

Same with your stocks -- yeah there is a company name on it, but if said company goes under and declares bankruptcy, what do you get? Again, backed by NOTHING.

I'd love to see crypto currency make it mainstream - just because it's a new and different way of doing things. Do you really think we as a society will for the next 5000 years use paper money? The trend is electronic, whether bitcoin is the one that makes it nobody knows, but the idea isn't going away.
 
PRIME1 said:
http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ina-payment-processors-digital-cryptocurrency

Wow, that was quick! :eek:

At least this should bring down the cost of both used and new cards.
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PA9JRh6.jpg
 
SpecTP said:
I still would not touch a graphics card that had been used for mining unless it was discounted heavily. Its lifespan would be very suspect.
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Hang out here in the forum longer than 5 days and you will soon learn that idea is total crap.

Would you walk away from a 911 turbo at a sweet price just because *gasp* someone had gone 100mph in in for a while?


I'd rather have a well maintained car/GPU that was run hard and lived up to it's name than a GPU that sat around collecting dust and baking itself under 1" of dust never living up to it's potential.
 
collegeboy69us said:
There is nothing backing the US dollar, there is nothing backing stocks. So what if the government promises you that your bank account is insured for 100K. They can print off 100K in 2 seconds. There is no gold backing it, no other commodity. It's just a cloth blend with some ink on it that people collectively think is valuable.

Same with your stocks -- yeah there is a company name on it, but if said company goes under and declares bankruptcy, what do you get? Again, backed by NOTHING.

I'd love to see crypto currency make it mainstream - just because it's a new and different way of doing things. Do you really think we as a society will for the next 5000 years use paper money? The trend is electronic, whether bitcoin is the one that makes it nobody knows, but the idea isn't going away.
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I'm not a big government lover but you are just wrong here. The US dollar IS backed by the "Full Faith and Credit of the USA" which means the currency has a backing and you will be repaid (inflated worthless dollars). If you have stock in a company and you purchase one stock then you legally owe a part of that company. This ownership can be sold or transferred just like physical goods.

With Bitcoin, there is really no tangible, intrinsic value other than securing it behind encryption and scarcity. This is akin to putting bacon in a safe with a lock that would take years to open but since there a very limited supply of bacon, the perceived price jumps as people look to make a quick buck of the shortage and herd mentality.

Speculative bubbles happen very often as we saw in stocks, housing and other Ponzi schemes. Heck I still remember house shopping during the housing boom (thank goodness I didn't buy) and some smuck installed 5K granite countertops and jacked up the asking price by 50K. Seriously? Humans I think are hardwired to make something more valuable than it really is and sell it to the next sucker.

In short, once Bitcoin or any derivative form of currency becomes a threat to normal established currencies, it will be banned sending the virtual currency into the abyss from where is came from. I would sell now while you can.
 
collegeboy69us said:
Hang out here in the forum longer than 5 days and you will soon learn that idea is total crap.

Would you walk away from a 911 turbo at a sweet price just because *gasp* someone had gone 100mph in in for a while?


I'd rather have a well maintained car/GPU that was run hard and lived up to it's name than a GPU that sat around collecting dust and baking itself under 1" of dust never living up to it's potential.
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Had a friend of mine tell me one day "If a friend of mine came over asking to borrow my car and my wife, I would tell him to rent a car and take my wife somewhere nice." I found the comment humorous and asked him why lend out his wife and not car? He said "At least I know what will happen to my wife"

Point being, I also would not purchase a video card used for mining. You simply do not know the conditions it was under and besides, I like warranties.
 
Rizen said:
I wouldn't say it crashed, BTC is still trading for $500+ and LTC is going for $15 when it was $8 for months. Values dropped a lot of because of China, I would expect it to pick back up somewhat. It's been volatile for years, this isn't anything new really.
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I agree. BTC was <$200 almost all summer, and LTC was <$3. I'm pretty happy with LTC > $10. Sure, it would have been best to sell at $45, then rebuy at $9, but in the long term, BTC & LTC are still way up.
 
Reality said:
That was the episode where George stopped having sex and was giving hitting instructions to Derek Jeter, ATG Seinfeld episode
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Thank you for your very informative remark, you know your Seinfeld :p
 
collegeboy69us said:
Hang out here in the forum longer than 5 days and you will soon learn that idea is total crap.

Would you walk away from a 911 turbo at a sweet price just because *gasp* someone had gone 100mph in in for a while?


I'd rather have a well maintained car/GPU that was run hard and lived up to it's name than a GPU that sat around collecting dust and baking itself under 1" of dust never living up to it's potential.
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Yes.. I would walk away from that 911 in a heartbeat. Even if it was a Ferrari Enzo, I'd still walk away. I've seen plenty of twin turbo 911's with completely blown clutch and leaking engine parts that people try to unload on an unsuspecting buyers.
 
My biggest issue with btc was getting my damn money out. In Canada, its rather hard to avoid PayPal and their bs fees and the threat of a frozen acct due to a very large transfer.
 
Ignore all, acquire Dogecoin. Very wow, much win, so amazing, such doge!
 
SpecTP said:
I still would not touch a graphics card that had been used for mining unless it was discounted heavily. Its lifespan would be very suspect.
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It's actually more likely that if a card has survived mining, then the likelihood of it failing during normal use is less than that of a brand new card. These cards have already been torture tested. Any that fail have already been RMA'd... you're getting the pick of the litter, the ones that haven't been culled.
 
Venomous said:
This is pure bollocks, that card won't die anytime in the near future... Easily be many generations of card releases before the thing died... This isn't a mechanical engine where bearing wear begins to degrade because lubrication breaks down ...

People have been spurting this nonsense ever since Overclocking cpu's came around... And it's been debunked.
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It's nothing like overclocking. Nobody in their right mind pushes a card or CPU so hard that it requires 100% fan speed 24 hours a day while staying a couple of degrees below throttling thresholds.
 
lloose said:
It's nothing like overclocking. Nobody in their right mind pushes a card or CPU so hard that it requires 100% fan speed 24 hours a day while staying a couple of degrees below throttling thresholds.
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I did, 3@6950 for 3years

all three cards still folding at home today
 
lloose said:
It's nothing like overclocking. Nobody in their right mind pushes a card or CPU so hard that it requires 100% fan speed 24 hours a day while staying a couple of degrees below throttling thresholds.
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I run my mining cards at 70 % fan and 70-75C. 7970s don't throttle until 95C or so, that's well below the safe limit.

Haven't had any of them go out on me yet, stable as a rock.
 
x3sphere said:
I run my mining cards at 70 % fan and 70-75C. 7970s don't throttle until 95C or so, that's well below the safe limit.

Haven't had any of them go out on me yet, stable as a rock.
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Youre the minority here. I see countless other people who push their cards to their absolute max full time for a few extra khash.
 
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fdiaz78 said:
I'm not a big government lover but you are just wrong here. The US dollar IS backed by the "Full Faith and Credit of the USA" which means the currency has a backing and you will be repaid (inflated worthless dollars). If you have stock in a company and you purchase one stock then you legally owe a part of that company. This ownership can be sold or transferred just like physical goods.

With Bitcoin, there is really no tangible, intrinsic value other than securing it behind encryption and scarcity. This is akin to putting bacon in a safe with a lock that would take years to open but since there a very limited supply of bacon, the perceived price jumps as people look to make a quick buck of the shortage and herd mentality.

Speculative bubbles happen very often as we saw in stocks, housing and other Ponzi schemes. Heck I still remember house shopping during the housing boom (thank goodness I didn't buy) and some smuck installed 5K granite countertops and jacked up the asking price by 50K. Seriously? Humans I think are hardwired to make something more valuable than it really is and sell it to the next sucker.

In short, once Bitcoin or any derivative form of currency becomes a threat to normal established currencies, it will be banned sending the virtual currency into the abyss from where is came from. I would sell now while you can.
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Great post, spot on. Stock has the backing of the output/production and assets of the company you buy. Your analogy might work better if it were plastic bacon that was not consumable, to further the point that their is no intrinsic value.
 
fdiaz78 said:
I'm not a big government lover but you are just wrong here. The US dollar IS backed by the "Full Faith and Credit of the USA" which means the currency has a backing and you will be repaid (inflated worthless dollars). If you have stock in a company and you purchase one stock then you legally owe a part of that company. This ownership can be sold or transferred just like physical goods.

With Bitcoin, there is really no tangible, intrinsic value other than securing it behind encryption and scarcity. This is akin to putting bacon in a safe with a lock that would take years to open but since there a very limited supply of bacon, the perceived price jumps as people look to make a quick buck of the shortage and herd mentality.

Speculative bubbles happen very often as we saw in stocks, housing and other Ponzi schemes. Heck I still remember house shopping during the housing boom (thank goodness I didn't buy) and some smuck installed 5K granite countertops and jacked up the asking price by 50K. Seriously? Humans I think are hardwired to make something more valuable than it really is and sell it to the next sucker.

In short, once Bitcoin or any derivative form of currency becomes a threat to normal established currencies, it will be banned sending the virtual currency into the abyss from where is came from. I would sell now while you can.
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astyler said:
Great post, spot on. Stock has the backing of the output/production and assets of the company you buy. Your analogy might work better if it were plastic bacon that was not consumable, to further the point that their is no intrinsic value.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if all of a sudden the entire world deemed the USD to be worthless and stopped accepting it, what value does it now have outside of the US? Is the USD not worth what people are willing to pay for it?
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if all of a sudden the entire world deemed the USD to be worthless and stopped accepting it, what value does it now have outside of the US? Is the USD not worth what people are willing to pay for it?
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The value of the USD, as any currency, reflects the strength of the economy. If the USD becomes worthless, it will be because the US economy will be sinking fast. And then, even inside the US, the USD wouldn't "worth" much, as it would be "weak" to buy anything imported. It's why african countries have their official currency, but in the streets, you can pay with USD just fine.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if all of a sudden the entire world deemed the USD to be worthless and stopped accepting it, what value does it now have outside of the US? Is the USD not worth what people are willing to pay for it?
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The value of a fiat currency is the purchasing power if commands within the country that issues it (or any purchasing power it has globally as well). As long as it has this purchasing power, the global market could not reach a consensus that it was worthless and stop trading for it.

It's "backed by the full faith and credit of the USG", which means the government cannot suddenly say it is worthless without severe repercussions to the national and global economy.

Even highly volatile or inflated currencies (dinar, dong, etc.), hold some value globally to speculators/traders, even if they aren't easily exchanged because of their high risk.

BTC is like a fiat currency, with no backing. However, it has no institutional backing, but has some value from purchasing power. This purchasing power is extremely limited due to its volatility. Almost all the value in BTC today is from speculative interest.
 
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I have no fucking idea how a bitcoin/litecoin/dogcoin gets its value, but I find all of this shit extremely facinating
 
jojo69 said:
103924.24 PetaFLOPS equivalent encryption power begs to differ
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This is an unfortunate myth. BTC has no value from the computing power used to create it. You cannot get that computing power back or put it to good use.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths

Is a great article that can clear up the 'value' of BTC. It's a little biased but is largely spot on with the myths. It doesn't tackle the issue of the current trading price versus the intrinsic value correctly, but this is probably because it is outdated.
 
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