Jimquisition: Shaming PC Ports

Except that Battlefield won't let us fix their shit. Sigh. The one game I wish we could fix.

Shame on the developers. Good points made.
 
Jim is really a voice for us gamers these days. While many other gaming "journalists" are happy to suck up and drop 8's and 9's , its refreshing to see someone at the ground level experiencing the bullshit we are.
 
All good points he made but honestly, I don't see these game companies changing. Most people just buy their shit over and over again (and I'm guilty... bought BF4 knowing full well it was EA. Killing company after company, game series after game series).

Until we truly begin voting with wallets as a whole, they won't feel the sting nor the incentive to change their ways. And for me personally, I really need to stop getting suckered in by Battlefield and Mass Effect.
 
Term-X said:
All good points he made but honestly, I don't see these game companies changing. Most people just buy their shit over and over again (and I'm guilty... bought BF4 knowing full well it was EA. Killing company after company, game series after game series).

Until we truly begin voting with wallets as a whole, they won't feel the sting nor the incentive to change their ways. And for me personally, I really need to stop getting suckered in by Battlefield and Mass Effect.
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That's the problem. Not enough of us are willing to vote with our wallets. Lots of talk and no action frankly.

It won't be until it annoys the casual gamer that it'll actually get to be a real issue for publishers/developers.
 
Wow, what a great fucking video. Such great points. Hell, I even take modders for granted many times.

Those developers should fucking hang their heads in shame. It really is pitiful.
 
big_aug said:
Wow, what a great fucking video. Such great points. Hell, I even take modders for granted many times.

Those developers should fucking hang their heads in shame. It really is pitiful.
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I agree 100%. They really ought to get their stuff together and be embarrassed when they are outdone by a person that's never even seen their code before.
 
big_aug said:
Wow, what a great fucking video. Such great points. Hell, I even take modders for granted many times.

Those developers should fucking hang their heads in shame. It really is pitiful.
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I totally agree.
 
I think he forgot to mention one thing: the games he mention are genuinely good games, which is why people bother fixing them. I've been watching Jim's own LP of Deadly Premonition, and (at the time of recording, some of it was fixed sindce) not only was it buggy as hell and locked at 720p, it also had atrocious KB+M controls and NO controller support. Had the game not been a stellar modern cult classic, noone with brains enough to check out reviews or the forums would have come within 500 miles of that shit, and I bet it would have sold less than a 1000 copies.
I hope they fix it up in a major way soon, I'm dying to play it myself
 
Good for calling them out I guess but I'm super tired of the fact that people don't realize they are obviously deliberately making the pc versions suck so as to make the console versions seem better by comparison, because the console profit prospects lebowski... if you can actually CODE a game like Dark Souls then you can also optimize it to run well on ANY platform. Put two and two together ffs and stop supporting these fuckers. Start taking notes of which companies (dev as well as publisher) and remember not to buy their future products. In the meantime there are lots of other options to have a lot more fun in your spare time
 
Dark Souls was a 1:1 port. Consoles actually suffered far more optimization issues due to being weak boxes of turd.
 
hfk said:
Good for calling them out I guess but I'm super tired of the fact that people don't realize they are obviously deliberately making the pc versions suck so as to make the console versions seem better by comparison, because the console profit prospects lebowski...
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Given equivalent retail pricing, one would expect the console version to be almost universally less profitable per unit than the PC version.
 
wonderfield said:
Given equivalent retail pricing, one would expect the console version to be almost universally less profitable per unit than the PC version.
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No it isn't? Maybe in some retail stores, but most stores price the xbox/ps3 versions about 25% higher... and piracy is generally easier on PC. You're seriously telling me you don't think the "bad" parts of the industry care about this?
 
wonderfield said:
What part of "given equivalent retail pricing" was not understood?
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What are you talking about? The console version is mostly priced higher than, not equal to the PC version. And you just decided to completely ignore the fighting piracy incentive. Easy to see which side you're on
 
I think it is a lack of foresight rather than some crazy conspiracy to promote console versions over PC versions.
 
hfk said:
Easy to see which side you're on
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I'm on the side of knowing what "given equivalent retail pricing" means. And, I have to say, it's nice over here. Pretty nice grass. Good flowers. An educational system. Really fantastic stuff.
 
wonderfield said:
I'm on the side of knowing what "given equivalent retail pricing" means. And, I have to say, it's nice over here. Pretty nice grass. Good flowers. An educational system. Really fantastic stuff.
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Well please do use your fancy education to elaborate on how dfferent than is the same as equal to
 
Parja said:
"...given..." Seriously? You don't get the concept?

He doesn't need any. He said, "I think..." while you were the one who claimed there was evidence.
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Strangely sucky PC ports, DRM, label of piracy, the convenience of only just reaching lowest common denominator and then release.... It's so obvious. I'm still waiting for contradicting points that suggest I'm wrong to assume there's a deliberate attempt to make switch from PC gaming. So, come on then?
 
hfk said:
Strangely sucky PC ports, DRM, label of piracy, the convenience of only just reaching lowest common denominator and then release.... It's so obvious. I'm still waiting for contradicting points that suggest I'm wrong to assume there's a deliberate attempt to devalue PC gaming. So, come on then?
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That's not proof, nor is it evidence. We know, for a fact, that publishers and devs make more money per PC game sold vs. their console counterparts. They also make more money per copy when going completely digital distribution. It's only when Sony or Microsoft pay out for platform exclusives where this changes.

The real reason some ports are complete duds is due to farming out porting to third party studios, lack of budget, strict publisher deadlines, squeezing out games to hit holiday seasons, horribly convoluted dev tools + proprietary APIs or just a complete lack of knowledge about the platform.

PC gaming is massively profitable. Sabotaging your own efforts on one platform to put another platform in a better light costs more time and effort than just not releasing a port in the first place. It's highly illogical.
 
hfk said:
Well please do use your fancy education to elaborate on how dfferent than is the same as equal to
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Christ. This is English, not quantum mechanics.

"Given equivalent retail pricing" means, roughly, "in cases where the retail price of one is equal to the retail price of another". It establishes a condition to the statement which follows. When pricing is not equivalent, the statement "one would expect the console version to be almost universally less profitable per unit than the PC version" is assumed not to apply.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
That's not proof, nor is it evidence. We know, for a fact, that publishers and devs make more money per PC game sold vs. their console counterparts. They also make more money per copy when going completely digital distribution. It's only when Sony or Microsoft pay out for platform exclusives where this changes.

The real reason some ports are complete duds is due to farming out porting to third party studios, lack of budget, strict publisher deadlines, squeezing out games to hit holiday seasons, horribly convoluted dev tools + proprietary APIs or just a complete lack of knowledge about the platform.

PC gaming is massively profitable. Sabotaging your own efforts on one platform to put another platform in a better light costs more time and effort than just not releasing a port in the first place. It's highly illogical.
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I never said proof. It's completely obvious I mean evidence as facts to support an assumption. I just looked up a retail store here that sells Dark Souls xbox version at $92 and the same store sells the pc version at $64. Are you telling me they make the same profit from 1 sale of either version? $28 additional dollars are spent in the production of each xbox copy? I find that a bit hard to believe. Obviously pc gaming is profitable. But you have more control on consoles and a lower bar to meet when it comes to quality. It's easier. Less worries. I dont have to point out anything else, just look at the progression of things over the past decade
 
hfk said:
I never said proof. It's completely obvious I mean evidence as facts to support an assumption. I just looked up a retail store here that sells Dark Souls xbox version at $92 and the same store sells the pc version at $64. Are you telling me they make the same profit from 1 sale of either version? $28 additional dollars are spent in the production of each xbox copy? I find that a bit hard to believe. Obviously pc gaming is profitable. But you have more control on consoles and a lower bar to meet when it comes to quality. It's easier. Less worries. I dont have to point out anything else, just look at the progression of things over the past decade
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Proportionately more money per copy, yes. Your anecdote still relies completely on conjecture. MSRP for console and PC games are $50-60 each. A publisher or dev does not have to pay MS or Sony $10 per copy sold like they do on the xbox and PS, respectively.

It defies logic to think that a publisher would drop some serious change on a port just to fuck it up on purpose to promote console sales. That is going to earn you less money than properly porting the game and enjoying healthy sales on all of the platforms you release on.
 
I think as soon as the port developers realize that they have to make a game work with so many different configurations of PC's that they just throw in the towel and do the least amount of things to break their masterpiece. That's why we end up with shit ports.

SLI? CrossfireX? Some of these guys have 2 video cards??? WTF! Make it work with only one will fix that problem! Limit the resolution to the lowest PC monitor you can buy. Some guys still have dual core processors? That's the new benchmark for our game's optimizations! And so on and so on...
 
Godmachine said:
That's the problem. Not enough of us are willing to vote with our wallets. Lots of talk and no action frankly.

It won't be until it annoys the casual gamer that it'll actually get to be a real issue for publishers/developers.
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"Voting with your wallets" is a flawed concept, because you have to buy the game first. You don't pay after you find out the game is worthwhile. Because of that, they develop games that convince you to buy them, not neccesarily games that are good. That's why sequels and misleading bullet points are so common.
 
Pringle said:
This.

No conspiracy here, move along.
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Not so fast.

If irony was a stench, the innuendo in your comment would be defying logic in the beijing sewers right about now.

Furthermore,

Never claimed they would want to kill off pc gaming, obviously that wouldnt make sense, rather basically suggesting that some companies seem to have an interest in keeping all the platforms about equally attractive at the expense of the quality of the pc versions. But there you go. Apparantly thats a whole new level of blasphemy to some people who would rather have theories proven before they are even opened for debate.

cageymaru said:
I think as soon as the port developers realize that they have to make a game work with so many different configurations of PC's that they just throw in the towel and do the least amount of things to break their masterpiece. That's why we end up with shit ports.

SLI? CrossfireX? Some of these guys have 2 video cards??? WTF! Make it work with only one will fix that problem! Limit the resolution to the lowest PC monitor you can buy. Some guys still have dual core processors? That's the new benchmark for our game's optimizations! And so on and so on...
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Sir I would believe you, and I would happily investigate it with you, but apparantly you are in fact defying logic with your conjecture

ballistic90 said:
"Voting with your wallets" is a flawed concept, because you have to buy the game first. You don't pay after you find out the game is worthwhile. Because of that, they develop games that convince you to buy them, not neccesarily games that are good. That's why sequels and misleading bullet points are so common.
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Well at least you would think enthusiasts could learn to see a pattern after a while.. no? hmm:)
 
I agree with his points, but he really shouldn't have brought Dark Souls into it as an example. Namco and From Software did say that they don't know how to put it on PC very well and warned users that it probably won't be that good. But people wanted it and begged for it. They pretty much said, okay, since you guys want it so badly, we'll do what we can. And they did.

It wasn't as if they just went, lets make some more money by bringing it to the PC. They just answered the players' request. And I think that is good on them. Someone with more knowledge than they about games on PC, came by and fixed it. Good on him. Great on him, actually.

But the fact is, it wasn't a money grab, but something they did for their fans, regardless of their feelings on the fact that it might not be up to par.

I definitely agree with people taking the people who does these things for granted though. If you've ever been on a modding forum, people bitch, moan, whine and threaten when something isn't working or isn't out right away. It's like the idea of, no good deed goes unpunished. The more you do, they more they expect it from you.
 
It's not the game companies fault people keep buying shit over and over. Remember the COD dedicated servers boycott?
 
pothb said:
I agree with his points, but he really shouldn't have brought Dark Souls into it as an example. Namco and From Software did say that they don't know how to put it on PC very well and warned users that it probably won't be that good. But people wanted it and begged for it. They pretty much said, okay, since you guys want it so badly, we'll do what we can. And they did.

It wasn't as if they just went, lets make some more money by bringing it to the PC. They just answered the players' request. And I think that is good on them. Someone with more knowledge than they about games on PC, came by and fixed it. Good on him. Great on him, actually.

But the fact is, it wasn't a money grab, but something they did for their fans, regardless of their feelings on the fact that it might not be up to par.

I definitely agree with people taking the people who does these things for granted though. If you've ever been on a modding forum, people bitch, moan, whine and threaten when something isn't working or isn't out right away. It's like the idea of, no good deed goes unpunished. The more you do, they more they expect it from you.
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A single fucking guy fixed their horrible fucking port. They SHOULD be completely ashamed of themselves regardless of any warning they gave. The fact that they admit they suck does not excuse the fact that they suck.
 
Yeah, totally agree with the video. It can't be that hard to fix these games if a random guy can do it with less than 5 MB of code.
 
big_aug said:
A single fucking guy fixed their horrible fucking port. They SHOULD be completely ashamed of themselves regardless of any warning they gave. The fact that they admit they suck does not excuse the fact that they suck.
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That's true but they did announce that the port would be "bare bones" entirely. That's kind of a rare admission from a developer. Normally its "SURPRISE! The game is fucked! Enjoy until we can be bothered to fix it!".

PC gamers have been fixing lazy sloppy games for decades now. Nothing new about that.
 
big_aug said:
A single fucking guy fixed their horrible fucking port. They SHOULD be completely ashamed of themselves regardless of any warning they gave. The fact that they admit they suck does not excuse the fact that they suck.
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While it may not totally excuse it, they were upfront about the issues long before the port came out. If people bought the game not knowing the issues that is entirely the fault of the buyer not being informed. Still, with any luck this port taught them a few things about working on the PC and Dark Souls 2 will end up being much better.
 
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