Bay trail tablet ram

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zalazin

[H]ard|Gawd
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From what I understand a single dimm or sodimm of memory is only 64 bit. My question is Bay trail except for the D version is dual channel. Most tablets with 2 Gb 32 bit windows would likely only have one 2 gb sodimm. Therefore dual channel memory cannot work.
So a Z3740D single channel Baytrail would be just as fat as a dual channel chip? Are there
any 8" Tablets that do support duall channel ram?
 
Based on what little information I have read, there is speculation that an 8" Win 8 tablet with 4GB might come out next year. I believe there are currently some issues developing 64-bit drivers for Bay Trail. Until that is resolved tablets will only have the 32-bit version of Win 8. You need the 64-bit version of Win 8 to fully recognize 4GB of RAM. 32-bit limits system RAM to about 3.2GB - 3.4GB because all the components also needs some address space as well.
 
My concern is I am contemplating a Dell venue 8 pro which has the Single Channel Z3740D.
I actually prefer the 32 bit windows because it will run older 16 bit apps. It would appear to me that only one mem module would only allow 64 bit memory access anyway. Therefore it would not matter if the chip was dual channel.
 
zalazin said:
From what I understand a single dimm or sodimm of memory is only 64 bit. My question is Bay trail except for the D version is dual channel. Most tablets with 2 Gb 32 bit windows would likely only have one 2 gb sodimm. Therefore dual channel memory cannot work.
So a Z3740D single channel Baytrail would be just as fat as a dual channel chip? Are there
any 8" Tablets that do support duall channel ram?
Click to expand...
There are, and they are all slower by comparison. I own a tablet with the Z3740D. Its extremely snappy.
 
Thank you very much for the info. I just pulled the trigger on the 64 gb venue pro. Have a good holiday!!
 
The Lenovo Miix 8 and Toshiba Encore 8 have the Z3740 (Non D) which supports 4GB and Dual channel ram, though the 2GB is soldered on...
 
The memory is soldered on the motherboard on many lower cost and especially on smaller tablets (because height restraints and other size limitations). The same thing happens on lower cost ARM-based devices, where single channel is shipped when the SoC support DC. It's a cost saver, to the point that it's cost reduced so much it becomes unattractive. ;)

Cherry Trail tablets coming in Q3'14 support up to 8GB, so hopefully that may make memory expansion more universal on form factors which allow SODIMM upgrades.
 
So because the 2Gb is soldered on board the dual channel is negated?Do the boards themselves even allow a second mem slot? Is the 2 Gb 2 seperate 1gb modules?
 
jmilcher said:
Soldered single chip in the Dell V8Pro
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Are you sure it isn't 2 x32 memory devices (2 x 256Mx32 devices = 2GB w/64-bit interface)? A single "x64" memory chip wouldn't be commodity memory. The motherboard picture I've seen looks to have 2 RAM chips on it.
 
zalazin said:
Thank you very much for the info. I just pulled the trigger on the 64 gb venue pro. Have a good holiday!!
Click to expand...

Well, when you get it you can install CPU-Z and see if the RAM is running single channel or dual channel mode.
 
pxc said:
Cherry Trail tablets coming in Q3'14 support up to 8GB, so hopefully that may make memory expansion more universal on form factors which allow SODIMM upgrades.
Click to expand...

Doubtful since that will likely increase the cost and thickness of the tablet. The Dell Venue 8 Pro is an interesting device. But I would wait for at least Cherry Trail / Willow Trail. For my wish list in order of importance.

1. Separate port for the charger. That way you can charge the damn thing when the Venue is plugged into a USB dock so that it can be connected to a monitor, keyboard and mouse. (possible if enough people complain about it)

2. At least 4GB of system RAM. (Very likely to happen)

3. 128GB of storage. (Doubtful)

4. User replaceable battery (seriously not going to happen though)

5. Two micro SDHC card slots. (Possible, but unlikely)

6. Higher resolution. Not necessarily 1080p, but something a bit higher than 1280x800. Basically for writing notes.Something like 1680x1050 to keep the same 16:10 aspect ratio perhaps? (Likely will happen).
 
JaguarSKX said:
since that will likely increase the cost and thickness of the tablet.
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Which I also pointed out earlier. It's too bad that it seems like the only tablets with user upgradeable memory are the largest models, which tend to be the most expensive too. It doesn't help that the form factor for even SODIMMs are somewhat bulky for small devices.
 
JaguarSKX said:
Doubtful since that will likely increase the cost and thickness of the tablet. The Dell Venue 8 Pro is an interesting device. But I would wait for at least Cherry Trail / Willow Trail. For my wish list in order of importance.

1. Separate port for the charger. That way you can charge the damn thing when the Venue is plugged into a USB dock so that it can be connected to a monitor, keyboard and mouse. (possible if enough people complain about it)

2. At least 4GB of system RAM. (Very likely to happen)

3. 128GB of storage. (Doubtful)

4. User replaceable battery (seriously not going to happen though)

5. Two micro SDHC card slots. (Possible, but unlikely)

6. Higher resolution. Not necessarily 1080p, but something a bit higher than 1280x800. Basically for writing notes.Something like 1680x1050 to keep the same 16:10 aspect ratio perhaps? (Likely will happen).
Click to expand...

I'd like some type of dedicated video out, pretty common on smartphones and tablets, as well without relying on USB.

Possibly slightly larger.

The problem with the higher resolution is UI usability issues and might be a conscious design decision and not just a cost/technology limitation. The LG Pad 8.3 uses a 8.3 inch 1900x1200 at roughly the same price point but with Android and lower specs.
 
JaguarSKX said:
Well, when you get it you can install CPU-Z and see if the RAM is running single channel or dual channel mode.
Click to expand...

Unlikely. CPU-Z on my Miix 2 can't read any SPD info (i guess there is no SPD info).

@JaguarSKX:
1. That is the reason i am going to order BT keyboard, mouse and miracast receiver.
2. 4GB RAM would be nice, but for the intended use of these devices 2GB is acceptable.
3. 128GB of storage would be awesome, but in my case i feel the 64GB eMMC in my Miix2 and possibly a 64GB microSD card will be enough for my storage needs :).
4. User replaceable battery is not going to happen. That feature would meen 2-3mm bulkier devices, and that just won't happen.
5. Well, Miix2 at least has one.
6. 8" tablet with more than 1280x800 ? Did you actually used one ? 1280x800 is what i would consider a limit for most people when talking about text without changing the scaling options in OS. 8" 1280x800 has similar font size to the 13" 1920x1080 device, and for most people, even those font sizes when using standard 100% scaling are small. Sure, with scaling it would be usable, but unfortunately many apps aren't ready for the scaling feature.
 
zalazin said:
Thank you very much for the info. I just pulled the trigger on the 64 gb venue pro. Have a good holiday!!
Click to expand...

Congrats! I think you'll like it. I've had mine for 6 weeks now and it is by far to best cheap PC I've ever owned. The only thing that is a bit of a downer is the pen. It does work well for my purposes but it isn't the quality of a Wacom pen by a good margin. That said it works about as well as a Wacom pen with handwriting to text conversion which is a very nice experience on this device, the speed and accuracy on something this size is great.
 
faugusztin said:
Unlikely. CPU-Z on my Miix 2 can't read any SPD info (i guess there is no SPD info).

@JaguarSKX:
1. That is the reason i am going to order BT keyboard, mouse and miracast receiver.
2. 4GB RAM would be nice, but for the intended use of these devices 2GB is acceptable.
3. 128GB of storage would be awesome, but in my case i feel the 64GB eMMC in my Miix2 and possibly a 64GB microSD card will be enough for my storage needs :).
4. User replaceable battery is not going to happen. That feature would meen 2-3mm bulkier devices, and that just won't happen.
5. Well, Miix2 at least has one.
6. 8" tablet with more than 1280x800 ? Did you actually used one ? 1280x800 is what i would consider a limit for most people when talking about text without changing the scaling options in OS. 8" 1280x800 has similar font size to the 13" 1920x1080 device, and for most people, even those font sizes when using standard 100% scaling are small. Sure, with scaling it would be usable, but unfortunately many apps aren't ready for the scaling feature.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the right Miracast receiver I looks like it could be very nice:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EesSBxaBMr8. And yeah, the resolution is low but it does work well at 125% scaling for desktop use.
 
JaguarSKX said:
Well, when you get it you can install CPU-Z and see if the RAM is running single channel or dual channel mode.
Click to expand...
It's single channel, according to dell: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/dell-venue-8-pro/pd

FrixmJz.png


The difference isn't too horrible vs dual channel DDR3-1066 memory, but DC 1066/1333MHz memory would have been better.
 
No chance of upgrading these kinds of systems - chasing a low z-height for the chassis means you don't have room for a SO-DIMM socket, it would make the system way too thick as you've stacking screen over mainboard/battery over chassis.

I've got a T100 and the lack of memory does hamper it a bit at times, very disappointing they didn't go with the 4GB supported by the Z3740 chip.
 
It would have been nice to so more options on the Bay Trail devices but the first thing they had to be was on cheap side. It looks like Atoms and the devices running them are going to become considerably more powerful as Intel moves to 14 nm and 64 bit.

That said these Bay Trail's are pretty amazing. I just got a Miracast receiver and was playing with running my Dell Venue 8 Pro across two screens and just seeing how much it handle. I was able to run Visual Studio, Word, OneNote with a IE modern with about 10 tabs while playing 1080P YouTube video and this little kept up pretty well. Not at all the fastest thing around but everything ran quite smoothly and was plenty useable.
 
The 2 gig limitation is the reason why I am skipping Bay Trail. I owned 2 Atom based Win8 tablets and in both of them I was more limited by the ram then the CPU.
 
There are a ton of videos on YouTube benchmarking Bay Trail devices doing things well that are simply beyond previous generation Atoms.
 
Andyk5 said:
The 2 gig limitation is the reason why I am skipping Bay Trail. I owned 2 Atom based Win8 tablets and in both of them I was more limited by the ram then the CPU.
Click to expand...
Bay Trail supports 4GB, but nobody seems to be shipping tablets with that much memory (most likely due to shipping with 32-bit Win 8.x). Cherry Trail next year supports a max of 8GB, but we'll probably see a similar pattern of 1/2 that maximum on shipping tablets, regardless of Windows version shipped.

Supposedly next quarter some Atom tablets shipping with Win 8.1 64-bit will include 4GB, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
pxc said:
Bay Trail supports 4GB, but nobody seems to be shipping tablets with that much memory (most likely due to shipping with 32-bit Win 8.x). Cherry Trail next year supports a max of 8GB, but we'll probably see a similar pattern of 1/2 that maximum on shipping tablets, regardless of Windows version shipped.

Supposedly next quarter some Atom tablets shipping with Win 8.1 64-bit will include 4GB, but I'm not holding my breath.
Click to expand...

I believe the issue is related to how 64-bit Win 8 does not support connected standby currently.
 
limitedaccess said:
I believe the issue is related to how 64-bit Win 8 does not support connected standby currently.
Click to expand...
Hmm what an arbitrary limitation MS put on 64-bit Windows 8.x. I just remembered another arbitrary limitation: system specs have to be gimped to qualify for MS's discounted $30 Windows/Office bundles.

Regardless, 64-bit Windows installed Atom tablets are coming next quarter. I just hope MS allows them to ship with 4GB at the same discounted OS/Office price. :rolleyes:
 
I don't believe that x64 hardware currently supports connected standby and that only Atom SoCs support it at the hardware level.
 
I started this thread and after owning the 64 GB venue 8 pro I have returned it.
Constant out of Memory warnings likely because only 2GB. It would run some stuff but I was overall disappointed in it. The crowning touch was that was when I tried to run Halo Sparten Assault, a Windows 8 App the menu screen was garbled the game could not even be started. The Microsoft Studio 343 reply to users of Dell Venue 8 pro tablets was that they were currently working on a console version release. They seemed not to care less.
https://forums.halowaypoint.com/yaf_postst229580_Can-t-Run-Spartan-Assault-on-Dell-Venue-8-Pro.aspx
Good I couldn't care less about Microsoft !!!
 
Sorry for the experience. Apparently there is an issue with Spartan Assault on these Bay Trail 8" devices, doesn't seem to work on the Lenovo Miix 2 either. I would like to see this issue fixed, this is a one of the best modern games for Windows 8, but this is a new platform and not every app on any device works without problems.

As for your constant out of memory issues, I have no idea where that would be coming from. I've been able to do some pretty big work loads on this thing, I actually runs Visual Studio 2013 pretty well along with Office apps and web browsers open, and that's been an experienced reported by many folks.

EDIT: A screenshot of something that I think is pretty impressive for a device like this, Visual Studio and Blend 2013 while debugging a modern app, IE desktop and modern open with around 10 tabs total, two copies of Word 2013 with 10 page documents open, and 1100 page PDF open in the Reader, Microsoft modern PDF viewer, OneNote 2013 open with my 6 GB notebook, a couple of other modern apps including Xbox music playing in the background and Paint to edit this screenshot hooked to a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard. There's some chug here and there when page swapping switching between apps but this this is an insane workload for a device like this and it's completely usable.

Screenshot%20(101).png
 
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In the case of V8P the Z3740D only supports up to 2 GB of RAM I believe. And it looks like Dell was planning to very aggressive on the pricing, 5 to 10 bucks is a big deal on something that probably has thin margins.
 
heatlesssun said:
It would have been nice to so more options on the Bay Trail devices but the first thing they had to be was on cheap side. It looks like Atoms and the devices running them are going to become considerably more powerful as Intel moves to 14 nm and 64 bit.

That said these Bay Trail's are pretty amazing. I just got a Miracast receiver and was playing with running my Dell Venue 8 Pro across two screens and just seeing how much it handle. I was able to run Visual Studio, Word, OneNote with a IE modern with about 10 tabs while playing 1080P YouTube video and this little kept up pretty well. Not at all the fastest thing around but everything ran quite smoothly and was plenty useable.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I'm interested in the "visual studio" thing. Could you elaborate more on it? Does the thing you mentioned above are actually coding using visual studio (using debugging and all, not including emulator though since the device itself is Windows 8 and WP app can be tested directly at WP devices), or it just merely running it without actual work load?

I'm planning on getting bay trail based one for visual studio usage on the run (while I'm moving around to my clients). Slower is acceptable as long as it still usable. But if bay trail is not good enough for it the I have no other choice to pick haswell based one.

EDIT: Nevermind. It seems that you already explain on your post with screenshot that you actually debugging metro app. This is a good news then :)
 
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I've tested a number of small and medium sized projects and the performance of VS 2013 on my Venue 8 Pro is certainly good enough to be usable. That said it's kind of tough to use it even with a keyboard and mouse because of the screen size. But One could certainly do some debugging and minor editing with it.
 
MGDMN said:
I have never heard this before. Is there any truth to it?
Click to expand...
Yes, regular (SO)DIMM memory is organized as 64-bits wide. That width was an upgrade from the standard (72 pin) SIMM memory which was organized as 32-bits wide, which was an upgrade from earlier standard 8-bits wide (30 pin) SIMM/SIPP memory*. The memory data width generally matches the memory bus width on CPUs and chipsets, of course needing to satisfy the minimum in order for it to work.

JEDEC's web site has pinout references for all these older and newer memory types.

* a welcome innovation to all those techs who rubbed their thumbs raw from installing dozens of DIP memory chips in a single system, and hoping not to bend a single pin while doing so. ah, memories of the 1980s. :D
 
heatlesssun said:
I've tested a number of small and medium sized projects and the performance of VS 2013 on my Venue 8 Pro is certainly good enough to be usable. That said it's kind of tough to use it even with a keyboard and mouse because of the screen size. But One could certainly do some debugging and minor editing with it.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear that. As for device selection, I have Lenovo Miix 2 10" come to mind. I guess I'll get that instead of 8 inchers ones.
 
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