Is there any ITX cases similar to the Steam Box?

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PcZac

Limp Gawd
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Aug 30, 2013
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Of course you need a PCI-E extender for the case to work, but I really like the form factor and layout of the case.

unnFSZs.jpg
 
There are cases with that layout albeit barebones. Clean ITX slim cases are HTPC oriented and thus wont accept large GPU.
Close to that are:
Alienware X51
ASRock M8
Digital Storm Bolt
Falcon NW TIKI
There was a project here in the forums for M3A2 case also.
 
Sounds like a good candidate for the NCASE M2 :D

I'd also love a case in a similar form factor. You could do a low-end gaming build in an Antec ISK 300-150 by using an i3 or i5 and 7750 video card but something in a slightly larger size to allow more flexibility would be awesome.

Edit: The basic layout is actually pretty straightforward, though the Valve design seems to rely on the vents for intake, I don't see any intake fans. Also, it looks like they cut off the tab from the video card IO bracket so the rear is flush.

Rough_Layout.jpg
 
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I wish I didn't have to abandon the M3A2 project. I died a little inside when I did.

There are a few up projects in the works that hopefully bare some fruit soon. TheHobbyist has something going on and of course Lazzer408 seems to have made a lot of heady, but no firm release date.
 
You know, the more I think about this layout, the more I think it will have heat problems. The reason they can do it with the Steam Machine is they're able to limit the component choice which allows them to design ducting specifically for those components. That's not really possible to do if you need to design a case to work for many different GPUs (blowers/non) and CPU coolers/socket locations.
 
Yeah, that is a problem. People want a large gpu or large psu and many times both in a very small enclosure. You can only go so small with these choices and yet people keep trying.
 
I would rather this case exist than not and have to buy known working parts. Which is better than it not existing BC of its own limitations.
 
Since seeing Valve's Steambox prototypes I've been trying to figure out if it's possible to design a case with a similar layout but more flexibility and I think I've now got a possible layout that allows for a full-size video card, two 2.5 drives, one 3.5 drive, and a slim ODD in a 10L box (smaller than a Tiki!):

fDD25O9.png


gGK1BHl.png


It's kind of a cross between the Steambox/X51/Tiki and the NCase M1.

I was looking at this for the PCIe extender, it's rated for PCIe x16 Gen3 and they specifically mention validating with the 290X, 770, etc.

It's hard to tell in the pics but there is a fair size gap between the PSU and the video card so cable management shouldn't be too terrible.

I'd love some feedback, the basic layout seems sound but I may be missing something obvious that breaks the whole design.

Edit: Wow, I feel like an idiot, this is almost the same layout as the M3A2, just a little taller. I guess there is only one logical layout for a slim case with an SFX PSU and support for dual slot cards.
 
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Aibohphobia said:
I was looking at this for the PCIe extender, it's rated for PCIe x16 Gen3 and they specifically mention validating with the 290X, 770, etc.
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About the ribbon cable. about a year ago I tried to find one that could handle a modern-day high end video card. At the time i was looking for something to 100% reliably run a gtx690. Anyway, I contacted a company that makes them and spoke with one of their engineers. From what i was told there is something called impedance which i dont really understand but basically proper shielding of the ribbon cable is essential. And this is what separates the cheap ones you see just about everywhere from the very expensive ones.

best one i found was the PE-FLEX16KR-3 ...however, it was supposedly so good that they only sell them to companies and not general public. Their older model still goes for like $50. So while i've found that at least one quality ribbon cable that ~should~ in theory work for high end video cards, it is much less of a hassle to just use a riser card instead of a ribbon cable. from my limited info i gathered, riser cards don't have as many issues as a ribbon cable.

There are cheaper ones out there, but since i don't really know much about this impedance stuff, i don't know how or in what way it would effect high end video cards.
 
Yes, the extender is the weak link with any slim gaming case. I'd read about the riser vs extender issue but the problem with risers is the only way for the bottom of the retention bracket to clear the motherboard IO area is to use a short straight riser in addition to the right angle making the case wider than I wanted, though Valve solved that problem by cutting off the tabs from the retention bracket :rolleyes:

I had saw the one you linked to but it only comes in a 3" configuration and I only need 1". The one I linked says it has been validated with several high-end cards but it may be so expensive it would blow the price of the case out of the water.
 
I know nothing about the reputation of this vendor, but I found this: http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=8

Maybe I'm missing something important, but why in these designs are we not considering running the riser cable beneath, say, a MB/GPU tray and having it come up the side of the case so that the GPU PCB is flush/level with the MB? Has anyone else been thinking of flipping the GPU so it faces 'up'?
 
DrakonSan said:
I know nothing about the reputation of this vendor, but I found this: http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=8

Maybe I'm missing something important, but why in these designs are we not considering running the riser cable beneath, say, a MB/GPU tray and having it come up the side of the case so that the GPU PCB is flush/level with the MB? Has anyone else been thinking of flipping the GPU so it faces 'up'?
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Yes, look for NFC S3 Mini.

I also made a sketchup mockup of an idea I had, I'll post pics once I get to upload them.
 
DrakonSan said:
I know nothing about the reputation of this vendor, but I found this: http://www.mini-itx.com/store/?c=8

Maybe I'm missing something important, but why in these designs are we not considering running the riser cable beneath, say, a MB/GPU tray and having it come up the side of the case so that the GPU PCB is flush/level with the MB? Has anyone else been thinking of flipping the GPU so it faces 'up'?
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That's where that scary/nebulous/important impedance stuff comes in ;)
You can't make riser cards or ribbon cables as long as you want/need. The PCIe lines are being run with high frequency low voltage signals that have a 'life' of their own.
In layman terms, if you make the ribbon cable so long, that you can have your GPU facing upwards similar to the mobo the signals on the line won't be within PCIe spec any more.. those kind of lengths need to be traced and hf designed on the mobos (ATX, uATX..). And having another connector on the line doesn't make things better, it makes them worse for the signals. I'm amazed riser cards and ribbon cables work at all.
 
JoanTheSpark said:
That's where that scary/nebulous/important impedance stuff comes in ;)
You can't make riser cards or ribbon cables as long as you want/need. The PCIe lines are being run with high frequency low voltage signals that have a 'life' of their own.
In layman terms, if you make the ribbon cable so long, that you can have your GPU facing upwards similar to the mobo the signals on the line won't be within PCIe spec any more.. those kind of lengths need to be traced and hf designed on the mobos (ATX, uATX..). And having another connector on the line doesn't make things better, it makes them worse for the signals. I'm amazed riser cards and ribbon cables work at all.
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But people use ribbon cables and they work, check out the S3 mini ans also look for Velociraptor on OCN (the guy got his gpu parallel to the motherboard albeit behind it.

--------------------------------------
Oh also:
Mtohqs7

kdeLFLF
 
I sent 2 of the M3A2 prototypes to a company in the UK. I used a similar spec'd riser/spacer setup as the Tiki. They had issues with stability and errors when using a Titan gpu. They were name brand and shielded, short, not excessively long. It is doable, but the cost associated with a proper riser really is restrictive to making this style of a case happen on smaller scale.

As far as the thermals go, I found that a large positive pressure is required. Otherwise, the whole case gets warm to the touch. Even with the hottest components having direct access to external air (GPU and CPU) they still get hot without positive pressure fan setup, pushing cooler external air in.

On the M3A2 I did this with two 120mm side panel mounted fans pushing in. They helped big time.

But in the general the slim design is an absolute pain in the butt to work with. Even after you figure out how to fit all the components in and you've dealt with the heat issues, you end up with a 3D jigsaw puzzle that is difficult to add and remove components without taking it almost completely apart.

On second thought, I don't miss working on the M3A2 case that much... The memories of anxiety of trying to meet all the proper requirements and manufacturing the parts is rushing back.... Uggg....
 
Black5Lion said:
Yes, look for NFC S3 Mini.

I also made a sketchup mockup of an idea I had, I'll post pics once I get to upload them.
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S3 has my attention, but no 12" cards. X51 psu is great, see neutrino, but can't drive those beasts. Mobile is giving me issues with the pics you put up, will have to wait to see them.
 
yeah, read what he writes.. compromise and not much heat.. I dunno what that ribbon cable is running at. And the pricetag of it will be north of $50 I'd guess as he'd got them made (and needed to team up to get the price down).
That S3 mini is for a half length GPU, not your 11" long overheight cards.
Again, it's amazing the PCIe extenders work at all and I stand by what I wrote, the longer you make them, the worse the signals will be and the higher the chance will be to get stability issues.
 
Black5Lion,

The URL you put for the images goes to the album view and not to the jpg itself so it doesn't display properly. Also, you can go to File > Export > 2D Graphic in SketchUp to save a picture of the model rather than taking a screenshot.

The layout is interesting but you may want to reconsider the 1U PSU, they allow for compact designs since they are so small but they scream like banshees at full load.

JoanTheSpark,

I'm a little leery of extenders too but I think it would work in this case since I would only need the shortest one they make.
 
I disagree with the 1U PSU, 12 inch cards are going to create that open space in front of the motherboard - might as well fill it a solid SFX psu.
 
updawg said:
I disagree with the 1U PSU, 12 inch cards are going to create that open space in front of the motherboard - might as well fill it a solid SFX psu.
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Exactly.

Not to mention, you want the GPU to breathe and not be surrounded on it's critical faces (fan side and PCB side) by another heat generating piece of hardware.
 
Skott said:
Yeah, that is a problem. People want a large gpu or large psu and many times both in a very small enclosure. You can only go so small with these choices and yet people keep trying.
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Large psu on mITX is useless. People need to get a brain. What we need is other vendors to jump ship and start releasing SFF psus, like SFX, TFX and Flex ATX. No more ATX psu BS. You don't need more than 450-500W for a mITX system, and thus ATX psus are useless since such power factor can be placed on small psus.
 
Part of the problem with this kind of design might be trying to build a "no-compromise" case. If you try to stuff a 250W GPU and a hefty CPU in a case like this it might be that thermal issues are unavoidable, at least without custom cooling designs. It's tempting to try and put anything in a case like this just because it can technically fit, whereas something like loneindustries' case has built-in limitations.

But if you stick with slightly more reasonable components, something meant more for running on a 1080p TV, then I don't think you would have so many issues with heat and power.
 
Drown Babies said:
Part of the problem with this kind of design might be trying to build a "no-compromise" case. If you try to stuff a 250W GPU and a hefty CPU in a case like this it might be that thermal issues are unavoidable, at least without custom cooling designs. It's tempting to try and put anything in a case like this just because it can technically fit, whereas something like loneindustries' case has built-in limitations.

But if you stick with slightly more reasonable components, something meant more for running on a 1080p TV, then I don't think you would have so many issues with heat and power.
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Yes. A "no compromise" case would be large and complicated. I got so tired of getting emails and calls from people wanting custom cases smaller than the SG05 but wanted to fit a Titan, ATX modular PSU, AIO cooler, full sized optical, 2x 3.5" HDD, blah blah blah....

With the currently technology available, there is a balance between performance and size that must be struck if you want a small case. And in most cases you have to sacrifice performance to reduce the overall size of the case.
 
With Kaveri Apu coming out. I don't plan on using big towers anymore. I think I am going simple next year. Especially with a F1CWS Evo Chassis.;)
f1cws-evo-000-000-s.jpg
f1cws-evo-000-180-s.jpg
f1cws-evo-000-270-s.jpg
 
I'm actually working on a case that will be able to do all of this.

Mind you, the space to actually get all of these extra goodies requires a significant increase in space.

I'm currently using a custom 2U server rack, as well as a Coolermaster HAF XB as my test benches.

4iyy.jpg


Note:
Yes, its a full size PSU.
Yes, the GPU is on a 2U riser card. I've gone through 19 versions of these to find this one to be the best. About half of them would simply not even boot up properly.
GPU is a Radeon R9 290 on stock cooler. I decided to use the R9 290 instead of Nvidia because its heat dissipation is one of the worst if not the very worst.
I am speaking with three manufacturers about developing prototypes of my case. I plan to send 3 of these prototypes to hardforum users for free, and keep 2 for myself as benchmark tests.


Several things I have noticed so far:
PCI-E Risers do not affect performance whatsoever.
Most server PSUs blow air through the chassis without changing airflow directions. Most regular PSUs would however be trying to pull in air from the side panel in this config.
 
What's the rendering software people are using? I have some ideas, but I think if I use words, they will be miscommunicated.
 
Mostly SketchUp. It's easy to learn (relatively) and can be pretty powerful as long as you stay aware of its limitations.

It's great for designing a layout but you'll need to switch to something more professional once it comes time to actually get parts manufactured.

Edit: Darn you CMadki4, beat me to it :)
 
WTF am I doing? Is this concept even feasible with a ribbon riser between the GPU and MB 'divider'?
 
Yes, it should be possible with a extender like the NFC S3.

Edit: There is no room for the PSU cables though.
 
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Aibohphobia said:
There is no room for the PSU cables though.
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Clearly. This isn't meticulously engineered. The important part is the general orientation and position of the MB and GPU and if it might make a grilled cable sandwich out of the ribbon.
 
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