Star Citizen - media blowout, Chris Robert's new game

chineseman said:
Speaking of the Hornet and joysticks. I noticed the joystick/throttle of the Hornet is an exact copy of the Saitek X52 which is what CR had on his desk in the earlier videos. Might be something to consider for all you Hornet lovers out there.
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Hopefully my old X45 still works by the time the game hits.
 
chineseman said:
Speaking of the Hornet and joysticks. I noticed the joystick/throttle of the Hornet is an exact copy of the Saitek X52 which is what CR had on his desk in the earlier videos. Might be something to consider for all you Hornet lovers out there.
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I was looking at the X52. If that's the one that CR uses I'm in! :D
 
Decimus said:
Hmmm I might have to look into that joystick. I have been considering getting one but have been holding out till dogfighting
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B!nd. said:
I was looking at the X52. If that's the one that CR uses I'm in! :D
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Be advised that the Saitek X52 isn't the most reliable stick. the X52 Pro, however, gets good praises but it is discontinued so you may have to do some digging. Also, the X55 is in the works which may keep the same design but with newer/better parts.
 
chineseman said:
Be advised that the Saitek X52 isn't the most reliable stick. the X52 Pro, however, gets good praises but it is discontinued so you may have to do some digging. Also, the X55 is in the works which may keep the same design but with newer/better parts.
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Thanks for the heads up. I think a joystick/thrust controller would be awesome combined with OR. I wish I could justify getting OR but with a 2-4 year old the idea of having complete audio/visual deprivation from the real world means my house would be destroyed in less than an hour :p
 
chineseman said:
Yea, I have no idea either. The thought just popped up and I was hoping there was some info. It would kinda suck if you had to reload/recharge at a station after every fight. I assumed the game would be like a big sandbox where you could do your own thing at your own pace. However, it could be just a mission based game where you accept a mission, go kill or deliver something, and then return to the mission giver and restock (I hope the game isn't like this!).
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Fuel for thrusters you will have to get from suns/refuelling tankers like the starfarer, harvesting hydrogen essentially.

Powerplant delivers unlimited supply (time wise, not concurrency) of energy to your ships systems. How you balance it is up to you (you can overclock systems too, apparently). Your energy based weapons won't need any kind of recharging.

Your munitions based weapons like gattling cannons/mass drivers/missiles however will.

It's ENTIRELY awesome that it's this way. If you get into a long engagement and pop all your limited munitions off it will make you rethink the next possible engagement. I can't imagine that it would be hard to get to a jump point and go stop at a close by system to restock munitions though, it's just providing a solid level of reality.
 
Weenis said:
Fuel for thrusters you will have to get from suns/refuelling tankers like the starfarer, harvesting hydrogen essentially.

Powerplant delivers unlimited supply (time wise, not concurrency) of energy to your ships systems. How you balance it is up to you (you can overclock systems too, apparently). Your energy based weapons won't need any kind of recharging.

Your munitions based weapons like gattling cannons/mass drivers/missiles however will.

It's ENTIRELY awesome that it's this way. If you get into a long engagement and pop all your limited munitions off it will make you rethink the next possible engagement. I can't imagine that it would be hard to get to a jump point and go stop at a close by system to restock munitions though, it's just providing a solid level of reality.
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Sounds good! I agree it does add another strategic layer to combat and missions, I just hope it doesn't become a huge chore or inconvenience that affects the flow of the game.
 
Decimus said:
Thanks for the heads up. I think a joystick/thrust controller would be awesome combined with OR. I wish I could justify getting OR but with a 2-4 year old the idea of having complete audio/visual deprivation from the real world means my house would be destroyed in less than an hour :p
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There's a few things that can help with that.
 
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Decimus said:
Thanks for the heads up. I think a joystick/thrust controller would be awesome combined with OR. I wish I could justify getting OR but with a 2-4 year old the idea of having complete audio/visual deprivation from the real world means my house would be destroyed in less than an hour :p
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Occulus Rift looks like it confers some very real advantages in this game but I'm most likely not gonna use it. After rocket jumping as a soldier and zooming around the map double-jumping as a scout in TF2, I've had enough of my share of OR. Plus, I always have the TV on right next to my monitor to keep me entertained during downtimes.
 
Love the look of the last one, really will get the kid into teh right frame of mind... :)
 
Andyk5 said:
Joystick will super seed the mouse and keyboard, but in time, you have to give it time, not give up quickly and continue practicing after being killed by mouse users time after time. Mouse is more intuitive and easier to learn since you use it every day. Joystick not so much, but think of the amount of utility you need out of a mouse.
You need to control your ship which is pointing the nose, lets say a simplified 8 axis worth of movement, then you need forward and reverse throttle, you need roll, pitch and rudder, which is another 8 axis.
So just to control the ship you need 16 axis and two button. Mouse+WASD+2 more keys for throttle can control the ship, number keys up top can select the weapons and left/right mouse buttons can fire two different mouse groups. You have just maxed out all the abilities of your hands and are not controlling the guns, you are shooting straight where your ship is pointing at.

A joystick can do all axis needed for movement including roll, rudder, throttle, as well as rockets and other weapons systems. Now one of your hands is free, which ever hand you are more accurate with, now can use the mouse to center the ball mount turrets on the enemy and shoot at directions that you are not travelling to ( a must have in space dogfighting). Granted a left hand mouse aim would very hard to learn and the best way would be probably having 2 individual joysticks where left hand+keyboard controlled the ship and right hand mouse or right hand joystick controlled the turrets. At least that is what I am planning to do when I fly the Hornet on my own.
This also points out how special the Hornet can be when flown by a pilot and a weapons officer. One guy concentrating solely on shooting can make a huge difference while the other one is performing proper dogfighting maneuvers
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Yeah, I can see the advantage to a joystick if you have guns that are articulated, I guess I was mainly thinking of fixed gun fighters where a joystick lacks the accuracy of a mouse.

It seems to me to get much benefit from a joystick you'd need to buy something pretty high end, I'm not really willing to spend a lot of money to get something high end that I may not end up using all that much. The most I've ever spend on a joystick was about $100 and it felt like a waste of $100.
 
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You might take a look at the castAR system as it allows a bit more awareness while using at the cost of some immersion and having to put up IR LED tracking markers.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/technicalillusions/castar-the-most-versatile-ar-and-vr-system
Please no fanboy wars, each have their own strengths, I'll have both, just in case.

Note some of the larger bombers look to be able to reload from internal stores, but I imagine the details are still in flux. Smaller ships will need to resupply someplace to replace used munitions for sure.
 
chineseman said:
Hey, at least the kid will know not to bug dad when they grow up or it's the cage for them! In the meantime, he can tell the wife the kid is role-playing a prisoner as he flies around in his Cutlass.
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The wife is going to be playing as well and hopefully my son a little while later once he starts to grasp video games better :)

Hey and look at that I already own the last one. . .
 
Dang it...I want a Connie type ship...but TBH I really am not a fan of the aesthetic of the Connie. :(

Or the Freelancer for that matter.
 
Skripka said:
Dang it...I want a Connie type ship...but TBH I really am not a fan of the aesthetic of the Connie. :(

Or the Freelancer for that matter.
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I really like the aesthetics of the connie on the outside. . . The inside however needs an overhaul and I keep hearing that they are going to do that on a lot of the first ships including the connie but have yet to see anything come from it.

The Freelancer. . . Yeah I am not really a fan and seriously debating on trading it in for something else on the wifes account. Maybe she will be getting a Retaliator :D
 
Decimus said:
I really like the aesthetics of the connie on the outside. . . The inside however needs an overhaul and I keep hearing that they are going to do that on a lot of the first ships including the connie but have yet to see anything come from it.

The Freelancer. . . Yeah I am not really a fan and seriously debating on trading it in for something else on the wifes account. Maybe she will be getting a Retaliator :D
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Retaliator I could like...but I wonder about the crew requirement to make it effective in combat. Something like a B17 (that they compare it to) of yore needed 12 guys to make it formidable, otherwise it was just a lumbering airliner.
 
Skripka said:
Retaliator I could like...but I wonder about the crew requirement to make it effective in combat. Something like a B17 (that they compare it to) of yore needed 12 guys to make it formidable, otherwise it was just a lumbering airliner.
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I think max crew on it is 6-8? So more intensive than the Constellation but not nearly as bad as an Idris :)

I would assume it could be effective with 2 human players and the rest AI but we really need better answers on the capabilities of AI I think.

You could always do a Gladiator
 
Decimus said:
I think max crew on it is 6-8? So more intensive than the Constellation but not nearly as bad as an Idris :)

I would assume it could be effective with 2 human players and the rest AI but we really need better answers on the capabilities of AI I think.

You could always do a Gladiator
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Except a Gladiator is a short range non-sleeping non-cargo (for intents) capable craft. All this ofc presumes that either will be available again before 11/26. I like the design of the Gladiator a bit more than the Retaliator just aesthetically....but the functional shortcomings are what gets me.

Already have Super Hornet LTI and a Cutlass LTI packages....thinking of swapping the Cutlass should the time come with something meaner than the Cutlass seems to be...but nothnig strikes my fancy all that much, that does everything I want it to without needing a dozen AI NPCs to make the vessel fully function.
 
Tudz said:
Yeah, I can see the advantage to a joystick if you have guns that are articulated, I guess I was mainly thinking of fixed gun fighters where a joystick lacks the accuracy of a mouse.
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What accuracy? SC won't be War Thunder arcade. There is no benefit to mouse in flying and fixed guns.
 
So Crytek IS talking at the AMD dev conference, they are set to start in about half an hour.
It also looks like they announced TressFX 2.0 and new stuff with Bullet Physics. Sadly these sessions will not be livecast. :/

VgK5W0y.jpg
 
Lorien said:
So Crytek IS talking at the AMD dev conference, they are set to start in about half an hour.
It also looks like they announced TressFX 2.0 and new stuff with Bullet Physics. Sadly these sessions will not be livecast. :/

http://i.imgur.com/VgK5W0y.jpg[/IM G][/QUOTE]

I'm sure they'd just end up talking about the new audio cards that happen to do video as well ;)
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Meeho said:
What accuracy? SC won't be War Thunder arcade. There is no benefit to mouse in flying and fixed guns.
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I have never played War Thunder so I don't understand the reference. I'm talking about space sims, and the space sims I've played you need to get the enemy ship in to your targeting reticle to hit them, it's easier to do that with a mouse than a joystick.
 
Skripka said:
Already have Super Hornet LTI and a Cutlass LTI packages....thinking of swapping the Cutlass should the time come with something meaner than the Cutlass seems to be...but nothnig strikes my fancy all that much, that does everything I want it to without needing a dozen AI NPCs to make the vessel fully function.
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We don't have any real details yet but I thought most of the speculation was that the Cutlass will end up being the highly configurable muilti-purpose vessel much like the Constellation but for 1-2 people. I'm not sure if I'd get rid of your Cutlass until the brochure comes out.
 
Tudz said:
I have never played War Thunder so I don't understand the reference. I'm talking about space sims, and the space sims I've played you need to get the enemy ship in to your targeting reticle to hit them, it's easier to do that with a mouse than a joystick.
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In War Thunder arcade mode you point your mouse cursor and the plane tracks it automatically. Space sims that I've played were more like flight sims and there you had direct control of the craft just like with joystick. I find it much easier to fly with a joystick in that case.
 
Meeho said:
In War Thunder arcade mode you point your mouse cursor and the plane tracks it automatically. Space sims that I've played were more like flight sims and there you had direct control of the craft just like with joystick. I find it much easier to fly with a joystick in that case.
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I find it easier to "fly" but with a joystick I find I get the enemy in front of me but struggle to do the last little bit of getting in the reticle to hit them. With a mouse it's easier to do that last bit of actually killing the enemy.

I haven't played a lot of space sims, I will admit, but the ones I have played, the best input method I've found was to yaw and pitch with the mouse.
 
B!nd. said:
I was looking at the X52. If that's the one that CR uses I'm in! :D
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Saitek's are known for being one of the worst brands of joysticks.

They focus on looks over function and quality and generally will lost a year tops.

CH Joysticks are regarded as one of the best, they might not have the flair or flash of Saitek joysticks but they focus where it counts, on being precise and tough (many people that bought them back in the 90's can still use them today).


You might also want to look at the Thrustmaster line (Warthog), I've heard it's decent (but very pricey).

I went through this whole thing when I was looking for a new joystick to replace my old Ms Sidewinder force feedback (which is still a great joystick, but they are no longer made and you're only luck is to find one on ebay if you want one).

So after spending days reading flight sim forums, etc I came away with the general views being:

CH best "bang for the buck" in terms of durability (built like a tank) and precision. Cons being that the fighterstick has no twist ability, so you need pedals.

Thrustmaster good joystick for more modern focused sims, but is very pricey.

Saitek the el-cheapo route, it might work fine for you, but they are generally less precise (unless you mod them) and aren't nearly as durable and will break after so long.
 
Stiler said:
Saitek's are known for being one of the worst brands of joysticks.

They focus on looks over function and quality and generally will lost a year tops.

CH Joysticks are regarded as one of the best, they might not have the flair or flash of Saitek joysticks but they focus where it counts, on being precise and tough (many people that bought them back in the 90's can still use them today).


You might also want to look at the Thrustmaster line (Warthog), I've heard it's decent (but very pricey).

I went through this whole thing when I was looking for a new joystick to replace my old Ms Sidewinder force feedback (which is still a great joystick, but they are no longer made and you're only luck is to find one on ebay if you want one).

So after spending days reading flight sim forums, etc I came away with the general views being:

CH best "bang for the buck" in terms of durability (built like a tank) and precision. Cons being that the fighterstick has no twist ability, so you need pedals.

Thrustmaster good joystick for more modern focused sims, but is very pricey.

Saitek the el-cheapo route, it might work fine for you, but they are generally less precise (unless you mod them) and aren't nearly as durable and will break after so long.
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Ahh CH joysticks. That's what I used for X-wing vs Tie Fighter back in the day. I think it still works too lol. Their sticks today still look exactly like they did back then.
 
ya CH products last forever, CH flight stick + CH pedals is what i got, so thats what ill be using. only issue with the flight stick is its lack of buttons.
 
Stiler said:
Saitek's are known for being one of the worst brands of joysticks.

They focus on looks over function and quality and generally will lost a year tops.

CH Joysticks are regarded as one of the best, they might not have the flair or flash of Saitek joysticks but they focus where it counts, on being precise and tough (many people that bought them back in the 90's can still use them today).


You might also want to look at the Thrustmaster line (Warthog), I've heard it's decent (but very pricey).

I went through this whole thing when I was looking for a new joystick to replace my old Ms Sidewinder force feedback (which is still a great joystick, but they are no longer made and you're only luck is to find one on ebay if you want one).

So after spending days reading flight sim forums, etc I came away with the general views being:

CH best "bang for the buck" in terms of durability (built like a tank) and precision. Cons being that the fighterstick has no twist ability, so you need pedals.

Thrustmaster good joystick for more modern focused sims, but is very pricey.

Saitek the el-cheapo route, it might work fine for you, but they are generally less precise (unless you mod them) and aren't nearly as durable and will break after so long.
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Thanks for the info. Stiler.

I am definitely pro-quality and "best bang for your dollar" so I will definitely take the CH into consideration despite it requiring pedals. I just assumed that if CR was building SC with the Saitek that they would work well together.
 
B!nd. said:
Thanks for the info. Stiler.

I am definitely pro-quality and "best bang for your dollar" so I will definitely take the CH into consideration despite it requiring pedals. I just assumed that if CR was building SC with the Saitek that they would work well together.
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I haven't bought a new joystick yet mostly because I have a feeling there may be a setup endorsed or built specifically for Star Citizen with how big this game is becoming.
 
I did my research too a while ago and came to same conclusions as Stiler. I chose X52 Pro because it had twist - quite useful feature in space sims which I mostly play. It isn't so bad, after a year mine is still working.

CH seems very durable but no twist and they are quite big and not very comfortable for small-medium hands.
 
svr said:
I did my research too a while ago and came to same conclusions as Stiler. I chose X52 Pro because it had twist - quite useful feature in space sims which I mostly play. It isn't so bad, after a year mine is still working.

CH seems very durable but no twist and they are quite big and not very comfortable for small-medium hands.
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I'm debating just going all out and warthog hotas...

I REALLY dislike the idea of twist for rudder controls. But it may be because I'm a pilot. Most people don't already have those muscles trained to do certain actions.

Twisting for rudder to keep a turn coordinated during a bank... no thanks.
 
Weenis said:
I'm debating just going all out and warthog hotas...

I REALLY dislike the idea of twist for rudder controls. But it may be because I'm a pilot. Most people don't already have those muscles trained to do certain actions.

Twisting for rudder to keep a turn coordinated during a bank... no thanks.
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its actually not that bad once you get used to it. i got really good at it when i was playing bf2.

now i have the flight stick and pedals i kinda suck. but once i get comfortable with it i think it will be more precise than the twist sticks. i better practice up on aces high and rise of flight :D
 
I hope they can come up with an all-in-one solution. The fewer peripherals at my desk the better, imo. I don't even know how I'm gonna comfortably fit my keyboard, mouse, joystick, throttle, and 30" monitor on my desk. Then add in some pedals and I lose my comfortable footrest as well. I'd probably need to find a small stool to rest the joystick on instead of having it on my desk and blocking my screen.
 
chineseman said:
I hope they can come up with an all-in-one solution. The fewer peripherals at my desk the better, imo. I don't even know how I'm gonna comfortably fit my keyboard, mouse, joystick, throttle, and 30" monitor on my desk. Then add in some pedals and I lose my comfortable footrest as well. I'd probably need to find a small stool to rest the joystick on instead of having it on my desk and blocking my screen.
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Yeah I feel your pain. I am going to have to get a separate desk for the wife so we have enough room to each play. Although each having a table means having enough room for 3 27" monitors. . .

Andyk5 said:
I have reviewed the Thurstmaster Warthog, Ch Products and Saitek X-65f in deep detail over 6 videos

I have posted them on this channel. It is basically everything you need to know about these Joysticks.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1788085&highlight=
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I will have to watch those videos tonight thanks for posting them.
 
Damn you, Andy. Why you gotta pick different parts from all three manufacturers?! That Thrustmaster looks so damn sexy when you line it up vrs the other ones though.
 
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