NCASE M1: a crowdfunded Mini-ITX case (updates in first post)

ok thanks, i realised after i'd posted it was a multiboard thing .... but yeah, it looks a bit of a compromise in many ways.


Guys, in relation to the accessories etc with the Case, did anyone ever post a contents list for what should be in the the small box supplied with it
 
Is it possible to fit side panels upside down? I´m wondering if it will allow more air to GPU
 
no idea, haven't given it much thought, it would not take much measuring to work it out though, that said, if this was an option i'm sure someone would have mentioned it by now
 
Anyone in the US get their tracking number yet?

Nope, just checked.. nothing in the "shipping label" box either, as mentioned by Prava.

I may not be taking this deal you arranged, but i still think a thank you is in order for the effort and community spirit :)

My pleasure! It was worth the effort to save a few bucks ;)

Thinking back, we all should've worked for a deal on the Silverstone SFX, since so many of us are buying one.. probably a little too late now. Plus, I'm still holding out for hope of the new 550W model. Kind of a shame, since I have a feeling that many of us here will be buying both the old 450W and the new 550W, due to shitty timing.
 
BP has never made a good block imo. They are always about the looks and never about the performance. They were always around last place, but that was when I was much more involved in the WC scene. Back before everything became about looks.
 
OMFG THIS CASE IS SO F*CKING BEAUTIFUL IN REAL LIFE !!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D


The silver one looks even better than on those photos
Looks and feels like a high value product :D
 
Yeah, i will probably get the 450w one, but i don't think i'll need all of it, but a 550 would give me more overhead, and mean i would be running in a range lower in it's abilities, so would thus generate less heat and less likely to cause over-use of the fan

i've bought parts before bit at a time for pc builds and it's never cost affecctive, so this time i will wait and buy all together, with exception of the case of course !! (and maybe the db drive, as these are not easy to find with sony dropping out of the market place)
 
Yeah, i will probably get the 450w one, but i don't think i'll need all of it, but a 550 would give me more overhead, and mean i would be running in a range lower in it's abilities, so would thus generate less heat and less likely to cause over-use of the fan

i've bought parts before bit at a time for pc builds and it's never cost affecctive, so this time i will wait and buy all together, with exception of the case of course !! (and maybe the db drive, as these are not easy to find with sony dropping out of the market place)

This ain't true. The heat a psu generates is based on its current output. It doesn't matter if the psu is 1000W or 500W, if you load it at 300W, provided the efficiency at such load is the same, it will generate EXACTLY the same heat.

Sure, bigger psu's have way bigger dissipation area and thus temperatures are lower... but heat produced is just the same.
 
This ain't true. The heat a psu generates is based on its current output. It doesn't matter if the psu is 1000W or 500W, if you load it at 300W, provided the efficiency at such load is the same, it will generate EXACTLY the same heat.

Sure, bigger psu's have way bigger dissipation area and thus temperatures are lower... but heat produced is just the same.

Efficiency graphed is like a hill/hump. Somewhere in the middle of the loading, it will be more efficient. At the extremes, you are less efficient. A higher rated PSU will mean you sit more in the middle, and therefore generate less heat, and thus less noise. As you say, at the Same efficiency, Same output/input will generate the same heat. In practical terms though, a 450 watt Gold, will generate more heat than a 550 watt Gold at a 450 watt load. at a 300 watt load, both will be fairly similar as this is where the efficiency curves are pretty flat.

Im happy with a 450 because my at the wall of 280 watts puts me just past the middle of the efficiency curve peak at full load, and on the other side of the hump toward the more idle side.

In the whole scheme of things, a 550 watt will represent the ability to load UP to 550 watts, but more importantly, is able to dissipate ((100 - efficiency percentage) * watts output) watts of heat for a given cooling system/fan. If your drawing 450 watts, the 550 watt PSU will have increase efficiency, and coupled with that potentially a higher thermal design capacity so potentially marginally quieter operation.

At the 200-300 watt region, both will perform similarly in terms of heat generation, but the larger PSU Might be marginally quieter due to its higher thermal design capacity. However overall theres no significant difference expected.


Again, this is all speculative and assumptions are made that the PSUs are both gold rated, designed with a similarly noisy cooling system that generates the same noise at peak load. There are just too many factors at play which can change the real world performance comparison. Realistically the effects of efficiency and size are relevant, but its not a surefire guide to which one will be quieter or cooler. If one brand decides that 40 degree is the target temperature, or 50 degrees, that represents a huge difference in fan speeds required to keep it there. Best bet is still to rely on real world comparisons and reviews. And even those are highly variable. (Such as my opinion on the stock fan and the NB PCP fan being crazy loud at idle. Currently my system is quieter than the bearings on a Gentle Typhoon fan spinning at 300 rpm.....)


Personally, unless I am intending to draw 4-500 at the wall, I will be happy enough with the 450 gold. Especially if you recall that the 450 was originally designed to be a 500-550 watt PSU, but was de-rated to 450 watts to improve its efficiency classification (achieving Gold). This gives me the comfort of knowing that my 450 watt psu can be pushed right up to 450 watts and have a degree of unofficial overheads (this was confirmed by a chinese? PSU test that was mentioned a while back in this thread).

The 550 if it gets produced, a wild guess here, but for all intents and purposes, could end up originating from the same design and just scrape the 550 rating, thus practically speaking, the 450 is not actually hugely different from a 550. OR it could be a ground up design and be Significantly more efficient and quiet!

Now this is all purely speculative regarding the 550, but this is something that could be considered. Could go both ways. Either way, I still honestly expect it to be noisy-ish, but potentially an noticeable improvement. For my needs, 670 GTX, undervolted CPU, the 450 gold with 120mm fan mod is well and truly within my needs until my graphics needs are re-freshed.


Regarding heat dissipation area, this is Absolutely true. The SFX fundamentally has very limited space, and the heatsinks that are there are really not capturing a good airflow simply because everything is soo cramped up. The talk of having an external fan for the PSU has be a little worried because the airflow is not just about in/out, but also abotu creating enough turbulence to get air to more places than just the path of least resistance, particularly for the components on the far side of the fan intake. I have put in baffles on the fan intake hole with my external fan mod to help force the airflow though the components rather than in the space that was occupied by the old fan.

And on the topic of PSU mods, since I have already taken mine apart, Once this case arrives, I will be de-grilling the PSU intake, since the fan I am using us outside this grille anyway.
 
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Which is the reason why small psus are, most of the time, lower power: simply put, unless you put a "server-like" fan (ie, VERY loud), its very hard to dissipate the heat it produces. More on, its a very good idea to make gold or platinum rated small psus because they will produce less heat and, thus, will be easier to cool.
 
ha, someone has done a lot more thinking about this than me ! .... gotta head to work soon, but will have a read over this more later when i get time, thx

i'd be interested in seeing this mod of yours okwchin when your case arrives, it sounds interesting
 
This ain't true. The heat a psu generates is based on its current output. It doesn't matter if the psu is 1000W or 500W, if you load it at 300W, provided the efficiency at such load is the same, it will generate EXACTLY the same heat.

Sure, bigger psu's have way bigger dissipation area and thus temperatures are lower... but heat produced is just the same.

I haven't seen much people talk about the new Silverstone Strider Gold S series - all of them at 140mm size and at 550, 650, 750, 850 watts (and fully modular to boot, which might be nice since it permits you to get a smaller motherboard/cpu cable for this). I thought this would be an ideal PSU for the M1.

Thoughts?
 
Which is the reason why small psus are, most of the time, lower power: simply put, unless you put a "server-like" fan (ie, VERY loud), its very hard to dissipate the heat it produces. More on, its a very good idea to make gold or platinum rated small psus because they will produce less heat and, thus, will be easier to cool.

Spot on!

I must say that the Silverstone 450W Gold PSU is a serious engineering achievement. Electrically its a solid performer, but managing to put components in a tight space, is one tough ask. Space for heatsinks are a premium and the heatsinks on this SFX are anaemic compared to even your budget OEM PSU. This is part of the reason why its not exactly silent. The high rpm fan sure does make noise, but at least it gets air moving.

After my fan mod, I am able to achieve a similar if not increased airflow, but its FAR from compact now, in-fact taking up more room than an ATX PSU in this case. Compromises were made, and in my situation, its size. Partially because I don't intend to use the forward side fan area for anything else anyway, and partially because this wasn't part of the original plan anyway. Was hoping the NB fan mod would be it, but it wasn't quiet enough, nor did it like receiving the hot air from the GPU.

An ATX Modular 140mm would have been more ideal in my situation, kind of, except the PSU doesn't get the coolest air anymore. And unless your modding cables, your going to prefer a shorter set of cables (either the silverstone short set (which isn't as short)) or a moddiy pre-fab one for the easy way out.

Can see pictures of it anyway, but not much to see. Just some card, tape and a few screws.


image_zps931aa524.jpg
 
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Spot on!

I must say that the Silverstone 450W Gold PSU is a serious engineering achievement. Electrically its a solid performer, but managing to put components in a tight space, is one tough ask. .

Agreed, I want to see water cooled PSU's come out. It would eliminate the fan and reduce its overall size. Although not really applicable in the M1 due to only being able to run a single rad that is already going to be stressed enough by my plan to run both cpu/gpu.
 
Agreed, I want to see water cooled PSU's come out. It would eliminate the fan and reduce its overall size. Although not really applicable in the M1 due to only being able to run a single rad that is already going to be stressed enough by my plan to run both cpu/gpu.


Problem with watercooled is that in a PSU, its not a single high energy heat source, its multiple components that do not generate anywhere near as much heat but spread across many locations, with components in packages that are not readily attached to a single cooling surface.

Logistics aside, If you were to water cool the hotter items, the not so hot items would not receive any significant airflow and get significantly hotter. You could install a fan, but that defeats the original intent anyway.

Practically speaking, watercooling a PSU (assuming the design is maintained) would be alot of effort for minimal gain. Think of how complicated a full cover mobo water block is, but instead, think of trying to cool 5, 10, 20 components all in different locations and not all presenting a flat surface. The only possible way is to design a PSU with water cooling from the ground up. Essentially place the hot components on one or two aluminium rails, and have both of those connecting to a water block. Not impossible, but certainly I don't see a great need for it down the line as we start heading towards improving efficiencies. We already have "passive" and practically silent PSUs anyway, just a matter of miniaturisation (time)

... unless you meant dunk the whole PSU into water.... now that might work better.
 
Problem with watercooled is that in a PSU, its not a single high energy heat source, its multiple components that do not generate anywhere near as much heat but spread across many locations, with components in packages that are not readily attached to a single cooling surface.

Logistics aside, If you were to water cool the hotter items, the not so hot items would not receive any significant airflow and get significantly hotter. You could install a fan, but that defeats the original intent anyway.

Practically speaking, watercooling a PSU (assuming the design is maintained) would be alot of effort for minimal gain. Think of how complicated a full cover mobo water block is, but instead, think of trying to cool 5, 10, 20 components all in different locations and not all presenting a flat surface. The only possible way is to design a PSU with water cooling from the ground up. Essentially place the hot components on one or two aluminium rails, and have both of those connecting to a water block. Not impossible, but certainly I don't see a great need for it down the line as we start heading towards improving efficiencies. We already have "passive" and practically silent PSUs anyway, just a matter of miniaturisation (time)

... unless you meant dunk the whole PSU into water.... now that might work better.

Yeah it was just a thought. It would require a ton of re design and like you said, there are a ton of small components. Just think how bad ass it would look though. Make all the components sealed and essentially make the psu look like a reservoir with a window so the components wouldn't need a block but essentially be submerged in liquid. Then put some sealed led lights in it as well. I know they make epoxy that is for sealing electrical components. Just an idea I was thinking about, not really practical or logical by any means :)
 
Efficiency graphed is like a hill/hump. Somewhere in the middle of the loading, it will be more efficient. At the extremes, you are less efficient. A higher rated PSU will mean you sit more in the middle, and therefore generate less heat, and thus less noise.

It's true that it's a hill shaped graph, but on the ST45SF-G at least the difference between efficiency at 20% and 50% and 80% is quite minimal.

st45sf-g-efficiency_zps05ce1cac.png
 
I haven't seen much people talk about the new Silverstone Strider Gold S series - all of them at 140mm size and at 550, 650, 750, 850 watts (and fully modular to boot, which might be nice since it permits you to get a smaller motherboard/cpu cable for this). I thought this would be an ideal PSU for the M1.

Thoughts?

I think you have to take into account height and width as well as length.
 
I haven't seen much people talk about the new Silverstone Strider Gold S series - all of them at 140mm size and at 550, 650, 750, 850 watts (and fully modular to boot, which might be nice since it permits you to get a smaller motherboard/cpu cable for this). I thought this would be an ideal PSU for the M1.

Thoughts?

The M1 only supports ATX PSUs that are 140mm and non-modular since the modular plugs would hit the GPU.
 
I haven't seen much people talk about the new Silverstone Strider Gold S series - all of them at 140mm size and at 550, 650, 750, 850 watts (and fully modular to boot, which might be nice since it permits you to get a smaller motherboard/cpu cable for this). I thought this would be an ideal PSU for the M1.


Thoughts?

The problem with modular gpus is that the cables will interfere with the gpu, if you are using a long one.

So, if you plan to use a card that is longer than your motherboard, its either going SFX route, OR an ATX 140mm non-modular psu (and good luck with trimming cables and other stuff).
 
The only reason why I would want a >450 Watt SFX PSU is simply, that I'd imagine that it would run more silent at lesser loads : /
 
The only reason why I would want a >450 Watt SFX PSU is simply, that I'd imagine that it would run more silent at lesser loads : /
It would need components specified to withstand higher heat loads anyway, for the reasons outline earlier by prava i.e. heat output will be quite similar at a given load regardless of the maximum the PSU can deliver.

I think that the innovation that's really desirable is in efficiency at very low load. The 80 plus rating compares efficiency at loads starting from 20% maximum, so with todays more eficient small systems the idle and low power draw can be much less than 20% of a normal PSU.
 
Quoting M4rk, "shameful... shameful..."
Yeah, I felt pretty dumb when looking at the case for the first time too. Now that I've explored it more, it's become a lot more familiar. I was confused a bit with the rubber washers and what screws to use and where, but that sorted itself out as well.
 
DIGISTOR ODD DEAL UPDATE:

Digistor is now offering 2 coupon codes for M1 backers buying factory-authorized Panasonic slimline slot-load drives...

...they are extending the discount codes for 1 week (should be valid until around 11/15/2013, but I'll update this when I find out).

Just wanted to give thumbs up to Digistor and AFD for working on this deal.

I ordered a Blu-ray drive on 11-5 and it showed up on 11-7. 2 day shipping from CA to OH is nothing to sneeze at and it was free shipping to boot.

Also the drive was carefully packed with bubble wrap and again cushioned against the box with peanuts. The drive did not move a muscle when the box was shook, which I consider a hallmark of a good packing job.

I'll be adding Digistor to my list of trusted retailers.

Thanks again.
 
Opened the box just now, the outer packaging if the case is well done! I must say seeing the case for the first time, I like it, it is so light! The aluminium is awesome. But you can literally see through because of the holes. It bothers me a bit. Maybe it will be different when filled up. Anyway, I got lots of time to think about it till a truly silent PSU that fits the case and a long GPU and with very short cables pops up :p Well done Whahaha and Necere!
 
Im trying to fit the PSU but are having trouble getting the power cable in position without pushing on the optical drive.

Is it safe to bend the cable 90 degrees or should I try and flip the PSU power connector so the cable attaches from the other side?

There is cutout behind the optical drive position, probably so the power cable can stick out a bit and ease the bend when not using a optical drive.

1AFRn7Em.jpg


But if not bent enough it can put pressure on the optical drive and push the slot closed a bit.
3wBxZxXm.jpg


So, can I safely bend the cable this much?
 
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So, can I safely bend the cable this much?
Yeah, that pic is from my testing, and both the optical drive and cable worked fine. I found the top of the drive could take a bit of flex without affecting its operation. If the cable is too stiff initially, just bend it gently until it doesn't push so much against the drive.
 
^The round shape of those Nofan coolers really doesn't lend itself to an efficient use of space. It wouldn't surprise me if the PCIe slot is rendered unusable by it. This is another, larger cooler of theirs:

qpzsxgk.jpg
 
the new Nofan is 155mm diameter, I'm pretty sure it will foul the first slot on most µATX boards, unless some very short PCIe x1 card is used. For mini-ITX it will need a miraculously perfect CPU socket placement?!
 
Yeah, that pic is from my testing, and both the optical drive and cable worked fine. I found the top of the drive could take a bit of flex without affecting its operation. If the cable is too stiff initially, just bend it gently until it doesn't push so much against the drive.

Thank you, will give it a try, just thought I would ask before eventually messing anything up. :eek:

This worked for me and I don't even have an optical drive :)

WIqcjC0.jpg

I tried to fit the the PSU that way around but im not sure its intended like that, 1/3 of the fan gets covered by the part of the panel that lack vent holes.
 
(My first post here ever ! Nice to meet you guys :)

WOOP! WOOP! WOOP! Number 705 arrived in the mail yesterday ! (Location: Belgium)

This is basically my state of mind right now :-P

I hereby denounce my wicked ways and shall submit to the Holy Duality that is Necere and Wahaha360 ! ! ! (just kidding, but still)

Damn it's beautifull and so increadibly light !

So ... I need some help from you guys. I was thinking of putting this in my M1:

  • ASUS H87I-PLUS
  • Intel Core i7-4770
  • Crucial 16 GB DDR3-1600
  • Samsung 840 PRO 256GB SSD
  • Seagate Constellation CS 3TB HDD
  • SilverStone SOB02 Blu-Ray Writer
  • Swiftech H220 (loop extended to graphics card waterblock)
  • Gainward GTX 580 3GB "Phantom" with EK full waterblock OR some AMD R9 280X with EK full waterblock
  • PSU ??????

(no OCing unless this setup is cooler then it looks)

I searched arround and on www.realhardtechx.com they say you need a 600 watt PSU to run either of the cards I mentioned. There is even a link to a 'PSU-calculator' that gives me these values:

With a GTX 580: minimum 492 watt - recommended 542 watt
With a R9 280X: minimum 489 watt - recommended 539 watt
With a R9 290X: minimum 551 watt - recommended 601 watt

They do however also say the crucial factor in a power supply is the total amps available on the +12V rial, followed by the +5V amps and then the +3.3V.

Since I know jack shit about these things, can somebody explain to me why everybody goes for the SilverStone ST45SF-G and beefy graphics cards, when the ST45SF-G can only supply 450 watt ? (Basically I'm just looking for reassurance that my PSU isn't going to blow up in my face :-P Also, if there is something you would change in this build, please do tell. I appreciate all the advice I can get :)

Thanks in advance!
 
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Yeah I don't see it when I log into my account on their website, maybe USA shipments aren't ready yet

Does anyone have the Asus ROG Impact and the NH-C14 cooler combo? I want to know if both riser cards (mSATA and Sound Card) can be installed without a problem with that big air cooler.

Thanks!
 
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