"Hawaii's SPs are packed too tight"

S

-Slacker-

n00b
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May 8, 2011
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So, ever since the official R9 290/x reviews have revealed that the Hawaii chips run very hot, there's been speculation that the reason this happens is because of how tightly packed together the GCN 1.1 stream processors are designed. The reasoning for this is, presumably, because the 290x contains 38% more stream processors than the 7970, while only being 20% larger in die area. (Well, that, in addition to the god-awful reference cooler...)

BUT...

...Aren't GCN 1.1 SPs supposed to be smaller and less power-hungry than their predecessors, considering that they have reduced compute capabilities? The way I see it, it makes sense that AMD managed to cram more cores per mm^2 with no negative side effects, if GCN 1.1 is indeed smaller.

That would mean the reference cooler is the only culprit here, right?
 
We'll find out soon enough surprised nobody has slapped an accelero or something on 1 of these yet. Be nice to see someone go from a 7970 on water ti a 290/x on water and tell the temp diff. If the 290 runs 5-10°C hotter then the chip is just hotter. If its around the same u know the cooler is a piece of junk. It probably is. 7970 reference was a piece of junk so was 6970. Im not surprised this one is to. Every reference card needed 50% fan to run at decent temps (high 70s) and anything higher was like a jet. Returned my day 1 7970 and bought a dual x 7950 cuz of this.
 
"surprised nobody has slapped an accelero or something on 1 of these yet.

I could swear that I've seen someone doing it ... As I remember, the bench showed the card running faster, too. Can't seem to find it on google, though...

edit: No, wait, yeah ... it was right here on [H]:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1788658

Shaves off 25C while running quiet.
 
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Holy shit 69 max temp on an accelero. Good luck to non reference models. Thats crazy hot my overclocked 580 on an accelero only hit high 50s max. I think that sums up its a hot chip. Accelero is arguable the best air cooler on the market. Def better than any manufacturers non reference cards and its hitting 69. Insane. I dont think wf3 or anything will be able to keep up. Maybe the dual x that was on the 7970 its pretty beast but wow.
 
Accelero for me on a 6970 I was hitting 63c with 1.27v going to it.
 
-Slacker- said:
"surprised nobody has slapped an accelero or something on 1 of these yet.

I could swear that I've seen someone doing it ... As I remember, the bench showed the card running faster, too. Can't seem to find it on google, though...

edit: No, wait, yeah ... it was right here on [H]:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1788658

Shaves off 25C while running quiet.
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Please note however that later on in the thread, ChristmasGT, the person who did this, had problems with cooling his VRMs:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040337058&postcount=27

I'm not sure if that was strictly on overclocking or not, however.. Just be aware that it wasn't all smooth sailing.
 
VRM temps arent bad with the Accelero if they are attached properly.

Infact, if you want great VRM temps, cut off the stock reference cooler back end and bolt it on. I dropped another 15c on my VRM temps doing that with a 7970. You do ruin your reference cooler for a RMA though.
 
Ya the vrm heatsinks that come with accelero are trash. Id never use them. I dont see any dual slot non reference coolers coming for these cards tho. If an accelero gets temps like that theres trouble afoot. I predict triple slots cards becoming the norm.
 
doz said:
VRM temps arent bad with the Accelero if they are attached properly.

Infact, if you want great VRM temps, cut off the stock reference cooler back end and bolt it on. I dropped another 15c on my VRM temps doing that with a 7970. You do ruin your reference cooler for a RMA though.
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...couldn't you just get another discarded reference cooler off ebay or something and hack that one?
 
Yeah you can. You can also get one off ebay if the time comes that you need to RMA too..........
 
Speculation of this nature is ridiculous. You (we as a forum) don't have nearly enough info to draw any conclusions regarding the R9 290 silicon architecture. But yeah, probably packed too tight.
 
No idea how it's designed under the hood, but it's also packing a separate DSP core for the audio too. I'm surprised no one's seemed to take this into account yet. I wonder if the chip is producing more heat while idling?
 
-Slacker- said:
So, ever since the official R9 290/x reviews have revealed that the Hawaii chips run very hot, there's been speculation that the reason this happens is because of how tightly packed together the GCN 1.1 stream processors are designed. The reasoning for this is, presumably, because the 290x contains 38% more stream processors than the 7970, while only being 20% larger in die area. (Well, that, in addition to the god-awful reference cooler...)
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This is ridiculous... Facepalm worthy. Transistor, contact, and via spacing is so much more complex than this assumes. What happens when you don't follow spacing rules is generally low yields due to mis-etched features (see: tiger tooth).
 
-Slacker- said:
That would mean the reference cooler is the only culprit here, right?
Click to expand...

Yes.

"Update: Based on your feedback, I took the IceQ X2 cooler off the HIS Radeon R9 280X and stuck it on our R9 290 sample. Cooling was dramatically improved.The FurMark stress test maxed out at 76 degrees while the card never exceeded 63 degrees in Crysis 3 and Battlefield 4. So it seems as expected the board partners will be able to solve the heat issues of the reference card

Sad days incoming for Nvidia zombie fanboys, what will be the next excuse i wonder, sad sad days!


HOODedDutchman said:
Holy shit 69 max temp on an accelero. Good luck to non reference models. Thats crazy hot my overclocked 580 on an accelero only hit high 50s max. I think that sums up its a hot chip. Accelero is arguable the best air cooler on the market. Def better than any manufacturers non reference cards and its hitting 69. Insane. I dont think wf3 or anything will be able to keep up. Maybe the dual x that was on the 7970 its pretty beast but wow.
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And so it begins.
 
Holy shit 69 max temp on an accelero. Good luck to non reference models. Thats crazy hot my overclocked 580 on an accelero only hit high 50s max. I think that sums up its a hot chip. Accelero is arguable the best air cooler on the market. Def better than any manufacturers non reference cards and its hitting 69. Insane. I dont think wf3 or anything will be able to keep up. Maybe the dual x that was on the 7970 its pretty beast but wow.
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Its pathetic that he thinks hes fooling anyone.
We get it even almost 40C lower isnt good enough, no temp other than 20c load will be good enough.
AMD failed look how much power they need omg they are terrible buy a GTX780.
This is what you are trying to get across right?
Well we all know so move along elsewhere.
 
{NG}Fidel said:
Its pathetic that he thinks hes fooling anyone.
We get it even almost 40C lower isnt good enough, no temp other than 20c load will be good enough.
AMD failed look how much power they need omg they are terrible buy a GTX780.
This is what you are trying to get across right?
Well we all know so move along elsewhere.
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Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Question from the op was clearly if its the chip or the crap stock cooler making it run hot. Accelero results pretty much prove its the chip. I was commenting on the thread y dont you calm down n have a bagel n some orange juice before you start your rage posting in the morning. Nothing about a 780 in my comment. P.S. 95-69=26° lower not 40.
 
I'm pretty sure Fidel was being facetious. I'll have my new XFX 290s and at least 1 waterblock tomorrow and I'm off Friday, so I'll try to get some temps put up compared to my 7970. If i recall my 7970 ran around 45C at full load with Koolance full cover.
 
Why would you want to spend $100 less then Nvidia's offering to buy a card that runs hot, then spend almost $100 more on aftermarket cooling? Doesn't seem like a good deal to me anymore. Especially since you can't run multicard with aftermarket cooling... Nvidia wins if something isn't done.
 
Given equal price and cooling no longer being an issue, I'm pretty sure I'd want the 290X over the 780. Personally I can't wait to see what Mantle can do.

Then again, the 780ti will be interesting as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia launched their own API in half a year or so.
 
hdgamer said:
Why would you want to spend $100 less then Nvidia's offering to buy a card that runs hot, then spend almost $100 more on aftermarket cooling? Doesn't seem like a good deal to me anymore. Especially since you can't run multicard with aftermarket cooling... Nvidia wins if something isn't done.
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Because buying 2 290s and water blocks is still cheaper than buying 2 780s and water blocks.:eek:

Also, because I game at 7880x1440 which is higher than UHD where the 290 beats the shit out of the 780.
 
veedubfreak said:
Because buying 2 290s and water blocks is still cheaper than buying 2 780s and water blocks.:eek:

Also, because I game at 7880x1440 which is higher than UHD where the 290 beats the shit out of the 780.
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now you will get a question asking why you are watercooling. :D the past few days have been really funny. the actual R9 290 / R9 290X buyers are not complaining about the noise and its the others who don't own the card and want to just bad mouth AMD products who are running around complaining.

in fact on ocn we have users saying 55% fan speed is not loud. agreed that what is loud is quite subjective as different people have different tolerances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQhqOKKAq7o

in fact the uber fan noise at 0:19 - 0:27 is not loud and 55% fan speed can easily cool the card well.
 
rdqlus said:
Speculation of this nature is ridiculous. You (we as a forum) don't have nearly enough info to draw any conclusions regarding the R9 290 silicon architecture. But yeah, probably packed too tight.
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I realize my post came off a bit matter-of-factly, but I was really only trying to raise some talking points, not make definitive claims, or anything.


psyside said:
"Update: Based on your feedback, I took the IceQ X2 cooler off the HIS Radeon R9 280X and stuck it on our R9 290 sample. Cooling was dramatically improved.The FurMark stress test maxed out at 76 degrees while the card never exceeded 63 degrees in Crysis 3 and Battlefield 4. So it seems as expected the board partners will be able to solve the heat issues of the reference card

Sad days incoming for Nvidia zombie fanboys, what will be the next excuse i wonder, sad sad days!
Click to expand...

Welp... to me this points to a colossal lack of perspective on AMD's part. It would have made a whole world of difference if they allowed OEMs to sell custom cards early on, even if it meant delaying the launch, because the heating and noise issues they are having aren't exactly benign. They are now infamous, even to non-enthusiasts, and even when the custom-cooled cards with far better temps and acoustics come out, "hot and loud" will still be what the 290s will be known for. Happens all the time with AMDs products (ex: "waaah teh driv3rz suxxx!!!11"). They really should have known better by know...
 
Something to note about the memory subsystem on the 290 series, from our review:

Most notably, there are now 8 memory controllers on board the R9 290X and R9 290, versus 6 on the previous generation. This allows a 512-bit memory interface versus 384-bit on the previous generation. AMD is also using a high-density interface design that occupies 20% less area than the 384-bit interface on the Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition.
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So the memory bus is really effecient
 
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