Sugested specs for 39" 4k panel on alibaba.

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geok1ng

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I am tired of waiting and after discussing the problem with a friend who works at a large TV reseller in a nearby country, he agreed to post a buying request for 39" 4k TVs on alibaba, since seiki is taking too long to bring the 39" 4k to our market and the other suppliers that use innolux panel are restrict to the domestic chinese market.

we are planning on asking for around 500 TV sets. so far we have agreed that it must have:

- 39-40 inches panel size, so it can double as a PC monitor
-capable of 120Hz@1080p without dropping frames ( Seiki can not do this)

we are discussing:
- Displayport input for 30hz+@3840x2160
-SBTVD/ISDB-T digital tv converter.
-3d

I ask the experts here: will it be easier/cheaper to use a native displayport board ( even if today's TCON can't handle 60hz@4k) or should we keep it simple using HDMI 1.4/2.0 boards?

Can we ask for a Tv set that only uses one HDMI for the digital Tv signal so we can have a dedicated HDMI for PC monitor usage or should we ask for a monitor only board and rely on set top boxes for other usage scenarios?

. We plan on sell these before the next soccer world cup in brazil, so the sooner we get the first batch the better. an inernal brazilian digital tv converter would allow him to sell it for non-PC users.

at least one of the Chinese domestic tv makers is announcing on alibaba that it will take orders for specific custom skus- i assume this offer involves their own 4k 39" SKUs as well, so this may well be our chance to build the "perfect value" 4k monitor.
 
We are working on this already as in me and a couple others.
Todays Tcon's can't do it but I have a board on hands that can but it isn't certified yet.
All I need is the VX1 transceiver board which is hard to come by to give you an idea of what the internals will looks like.

Transceiver:
DP RX chip
Mstar VX1 TX chips

Timing controller:
16 lanes VX1 input
4 lanes VX1 to 4 lanes LVDS
4 lanes LVDS per Tcon
4 Tcon ASIC's
Each Tcon powering a 81 pin mini LVDS interaface to the column drivers.

The 39 inch monitors will be limited to a total bandwidth of 30Gbps while the 50 inch and above panels will have 60Gbps to their disposal.
The current Tcon that comes with the 39 inch Innolux panel designated V390DK1 handles up to 40Hz I actually was testing on pushing it higher with a couple of dev boards but I only had 2 and accidently killed one (working late with a DMM with not so steady hands is a bad idea long story short I accidentally bridged a ground and a 19V)

As one of the first adopters if not the first of those 39 inch Tv's from China's domestic market and trying to push a 120Hz version while at 4K UHD/2160P you can ask me for help with those panels.

As for making a simple Tv like monitor it will be as easy as taking a DP to LVDS transceiver board and connecting it to the Tcon (well you also need a power board and some infrared receivers but it is fairly easy because all that already exists)
 
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TY Maarten. I am looking for direct hardware links, since we are jumping 3 languages barriers to spec this SKU with the chinese.

I assume that by DP RX chip you meant something like the STDP9210 or something lees complex like the HDplay® Transceiver?

The less we mess with existing 39" designs currently on sale on chinese market, the better and cheaper. I have found konka, syworth, TCL hisense and changhong TVs on chinese buying agents, but according to this source these panels are being used by bigger brands as well, but so far i am unable to locate TVs from toshiba, panasonic, aoc/philips or sharp using these innolux 39".

While i do hope that most 4k 3d chinese tvs use a transceiver like maarten's guidelines, i am having trouble finding a timing controller in that 16 VX1 input > 4xTCON mini LVDS layout, since this information is buried deep inside pdf spec sheets ( more often than not in chinese).
 
geok1ng said:
TY Maarten. I am looking for direct hardware links, since we are jumping 3 languages barriers to spec this SKU with the chinese.

I assume that by DP RX chip you meant something like the STDP9210 or something lees complex like the HDplay® Transceiver?

The less we mess with existing 39" designs currently on sale on chinese market, the better and cheaper. I have found konka, syworth, TCL hisense and changhong TVs on chinese buying agents, but according to this source these panels are being used by bigger brands as well, but so far i am unable to locate TVs from toshiba, panasonic, aoc/philips or sharp using these innolux 39".

While i do hope that most 4k 3d chinese tvs use a transceiver like maarten's guidelines, i am having trouble finding a timing controller in that 16 VX1 input > 4xTCON mini LVDS layout, since this information is buried deep inside pdf spec sheets ( more often than not in chinese).
Click to expand...
For you since you're specifically aiming for a more regular monitor it would be best to just stay with LVDS and thus the standard Tcon. (The rabbit hole goes very deep and making it harder on yourself for no apparent reason will only cost lots of cash and wear you out)

Next thing you need to do is pick a transceiver that fits your needs that Athena SoC fits all that you want but has a lot of extra things you simply do not need the point with just the SoC is that you still have to build a board around it. (the devil is in the details as always)
I would advise you to get in contact with ST and see if they have a reference board ready for purchase or that they have the Eagle prints(PCB design files) so you can have it fab'd.

Other companies that may be able to help you are Explore microelectronics and Mstar.
Explore has a DP to LVDS chip in the work designated EP369 while Mstar is the designer of all the chips found in current Chinese 4K TVs (well except the ARM chips in the smart TVs but you get my point)

If you go with a custom made Chinese model instead of doing everything by yourself you will probably have a hard time getting them to add DP to the line up but it will give you the design of the Skyworth and Changhong TV's which is pretty good

The only recognized brand that is know to be using these panels is Asus (well and Seiki but that is Chinese brand).
Most higher up brands use AUO panels or have their own panels the thing that is a bit sad about those AUO panels is that they are too big for monitors.

42 inch is the point where you have to bend your neck at normal monitor viewing distance (0,50/0,80 m)
 
Update. Turns out buying request system on alibaba is very fast but not that specific so i can ask for a giveen board or tcon, but after many request denied by Mrs Kethy jiang i manged to post something like this: RFQ Details
Product Detailed Specification:
39inches LED TV, native 4k resolution 3840x2160, capable of 1920x1080@120Hz without dropping frames. Similar to the "Skyworth 39E780U" or " Hisense LED39K680X3DU 39 TV 4K3D". let us see what the chinese can pull out of their hats for us outside the chinese paradise.
 
Have you considered how you'll handle warranty? People are going to be paying you a visit when their $700 TV breaks down... Or not even breaks down, just stupid user error. I would suspect that would be at minimum 2% of your 500 TV's
 
Why they have to be so fucking large... If they are so unable to make them small, I'd take quad 900p (3200x1800) screen. That with gsync and probably 75hz would be doable.
 
Tup3x said:
Why they have to be so fucking large... If they are so unable to make them small, I'd take quad 900p (3200x1800) screen. That with gsync and probably 75hz would be doable.
Click to expand...
Well otherwise you would have to be very very close to the display to have the effect of the higher density screen.
It sounds doable and there is actually a thread about high density laptop screens together over at OCN.
However Gsync only has like 1 board compatible and is still using and FPGA it therefore is ok but crazy expensive.
 
Assuming this is for gaming why choosing LCD over plasma? in theory plasma could do some crazy refresh rates with much higher temporal resolution
 
i'm starting to receive quotes from chinese sellers. they are very succinct and do not carry many information, but the wholesale prices for a single container are nothing short of amazing:

Dear xxx xxxxx
Thank you for your info.
39inches 4k TV,USD 294/Piece
look forward to hearing from you soon.
regards
sharon
ShenZhen YouZhong Technolog Co.,Ltd
website:www.szyzee.com

As soon as i have a more info about the SKUs i will post, but at half the chinese domestic price those tvs may become a serious treat to the koreans 27".
 
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gunbust3r said:
Have you considered how you'll handle warranty? People are going to be paying you a visit when their $700 TV breaks down... Or not even breaks down, just stupid user error. I would suspect that would be at minimum 2% of your 500 TV's
Click to expand...

Most alibaba suppliers offer up to 3% os replacement parts. Profit margins on this kind of product are so high that the (re)seller can take the brunt of warranty and still come out on the green. As long as the power board is not too crappy we will be good for the usual 3 months warranty on paraguay sales :D
 
Wow those prices are pretty insane. To think that Asus is selling their 4K monitor with a 31.5" glass for $3,300.00, I wonder how much they are skimming in profit?
 
gunbust3r said:
Wow those prices are pretty insane. To think that Asus is selling their 4K monitor with a 31.5" glass for $3,300.00, I wonder how much they are skimming in profit?
Click to expand...
That has a expensive panel while this does not but 300 dollar is a really good deal :eek:
 
Well, the quotes keep coming but none so far has convinced me that they are selling the real deal and not some glorified 1080p smart TV, so i'm resorting to ask what model in chinese domestic market is the OEM of the offer.
Like these :

Hisense LED39K680X3DU

Skyworth 39E780U

TCL L39E5690A-3D 39

Changhong UD39B6000I

If any of the above is a bad apple, or if i forgot to mention any good TV using the 39" inolux panel, please help me. This is going faster than i expected.
 
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Panmaster said:
Not everyone can afford ~£500000 :p
http://www.panasonic.com/business/plasma/3d/3d-plasma-th-152ux1.asp
Click to expand...
:)
reality is 42 inch reference monitors are selling around $900-1100 at specialist stores and build price are much lower
I asked a Panasonic insider about those monitors yesterday and he said they are only made to order from now on, I have already confirmed 125Hz working with no frame skipping its just a matter of placing dual dvi onto those monitors and with bypass scaler you will be seeing only 1ms or 2ms input lags

S60 was retailing for $399 few months back so I am sure a bare-bones plasma could be much cheaper
 
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Chad_Thunder said:
Assuming this is for gaming why choosing LCD over plasma? in theory plasma could do some crazy refresh rates with much higher temporal resolution
Click to expand...

If i could find a 42" 4k plasma at these prices i would sell my cars and house for a few 40' containers, but as of now the best i can hope for is a skyworth like 4k led tv.
 
I would ask for Sample units before ordering anything. Everything that sounds to good to be true usually is.
 
geok1ng said:
If i could find a 42" 4k plasma at these prices i would sell my cars and house for a few 40' containers, but as of now the best i can hope for is a skyworth like 4k led tv.
Click to expand...
I can ask him about price if that interests you, he said pdp is very cheap to make in 2013 but demand is only 2% and falling, maybe they will do some special deal before Amagasaki is shut down
 
PsychoAMD said:
I would ask for Sample units before ordering anything. Everything that sounds to good to be true usually is.
Click to expand...

This whole thing is heading towards 2 samples being ordered for testes before we commit more resources. I was joking about getting 42" plasmas, since 42" is a tad too big for dayly monitor usage and the heat output is too high for sitting close to the screen on a PC in tropical countrys.

I do agree however that we won't see better 4k panels than those last plasmas on the near future for TVs. I'm in for 65+" 4k plasmas, i just dont want another space heater like my CCFL 30".
 
For the first time a chinese suppliers offers us full specs, unfortunately for a 50" panel, but i will ask for smaller sizes:

Display Type: 50" Frameless UHD LED Panel
Panel Brand: CMO

Resolution: 3,840 x 2,160 Pixels (UHD)
Contrast Ratio: 1400:1 (Typical)
Brightness: 400 cd/m2 (Typical)
Response Time: 6 ms
Solution: MStar
Chip: MSD 6A801

This mstar chip seems pretty high end. Or is it a lower end solution? If i would guesstimate, it is a dual core cortex A9 1Ghz processor with 768Mb of ram.
 
geok1ng said:
For the first time a chinese suppliers offers us full specs, unfortunately for a 50" panel, but i will ask for smaller sizes:

Display Type: 50" Frameless UHD LED Panel
Panel Brand: CMO

Resolution: 3,840 x 2,160 Pixels (UHD)
Contrast Ratio: 1400:1 (Typical)
Brightness: 400 cd/m2 (Typical)
Response Time: 6 ms
Solution: MStar
Chip: MSD 6A801

This mstar chip seems pretty high end. Or is it a lower end solution? If i would guesstimate, it is a dual core cortex A9 1Ghz processor with 768Mb of ram.
Click to expand...

Still 30Hz refresh at UHD res?

Just wondering. I'm still very happy with my Seiki 50" and am interested in picking up another 50" panel so I was wondering if there was a difference in the refresh on this one.
 
notarat said:
Still 30Hz refresh at UHD res?

Just wondering. I'm still very happy with my Seiki 50" and am interested in picking up another 50" panel so I was wondering if there was a difference in the refresh on this one.
Click to expand...
It is the same panel so it is limited to 40Hz by LVDS limitations
 
maarten12100 said:
It is the same panel so it is limited to 40Hz by LVDS limitations
Click to expand...

As long as the 39" can do 120Hz@1080p without dropping frames i'm fine.
AFAIK most 3d 4k tvs on chinese market are clones of the Skyworth that at least on this aspect is a better TV than Seiki. My last link shows a 50" TV almost bezelless, which may imply a thin, high quality bezel like the skyworth.

I have been able to locate the mainboard that is probably used on the chinese TVS.

TV supports ATSC (meet the performance requirements of A74), NTSC, Clear QAM (meet the performance requirements of ITU-J83).
• Supports USB 2.0 Multimedia Player;supports audio and video play;
•supports picture browse.
• Supports USB update.
• Analogue and digital HD port input signal largest support 1080P
• Supports 8 Lane V by one interface
• Supports 4CH LVDS interface
• HDMI 1.3/1.4 Compliant; HDCP 1.2 Compliant.
• Supports MHL; Supports ARC.
• Supports Video resolutions up to 4K×2K@30Hz, and 1080p@120 Hz.
• 3-D video decoding and Chroma separation
• 3-D motion adaptive video de-interlacers with edge-oriented adaptive algorithm for smooth low-angle edges
• 3-D video noise reduction
• Supports Closed Caption (analog CC 608/ analog CC 708/digital CC 608/ digital CC 708),V-chip and SCTE.
• Supports BTSC/A2/EIA-J demodulation
• Supports digital audio format decoding:MPEG-1,MPEG2-2(Layer I/II),Dolby Digital(AC-3)
• Automatic 3:2 pull-down & 2:2 pull-down detection and recovery
• MStar 5rd Generation Advanced Color Engine (MStarACE-5) automatic picture enhancement
• Reliable EMC and ESD handle

It is still a long way from the specs maarten has given me, but it is available now.
 
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geok1ng said:
As long as the 39" can do 120Hz@1080p without dropping frames i'm fine.
AFAIK most 3d 4k tvs on chinese market are clones of the Skyworth that at least on this aspect is a better TV than Seiki. My last link shows a 50" TV almost bezelless, which may imply a thin, high quality bezel like the skyworth.

I have been able to locate the mainboard that is probably used on the chinese TVS.
-snap-

It is still a long way from the specs maarten has given me, but it is available now.
Click to expand...
Well it seems like it should do if you'll be running it with LVDS I don't know how good those cultraview boards are but I figure they do as good as any board with a Mstar 6m40 chip (which is quite good but limited by the HDMI input in this case)
 
Back to mainboard search, there is another model, they differ in the monitor connections part, help me choose:
CV3393CH-I
711821925_234.jpg



CV3393CH-O
711835154_273.jpg



Again my guess is that the "I" board is more adequate for overclocking?:confused:
 
I know a guy who's worked on designing boards for 4k displays. If you're interested I can talk to him.
 
The -I board has LVDS so that would be the one you would want. (the other might too but those click connectors aren't nice to work with until you have them produced by someone else)
 
Finally we have a TV on alibaba with all the specs we were searching.

The case is plastic but it is VESA mount-able:D

I am contacting my paraguayam fellow and starting the trading negotiations.:cool:

\i would guesstimate 3 months until i put my eager hands on these babies.:(
 
geok1ng said:
The case is plastic but it is VESA mount-able:D(
Click to expand...

Looks like the Seiki 39", I would be careful as they still have not fixed it so 120Hz input @1080p actually works. (It says 120Hz in the OSD but drops every other frame for 60Hz)
 
I'm assuming that it's also only 30hz @ 4k?

Anyone else notice that it has an Android 4.2 operating system?
 
I have ordered a sample for tests.
I would not trust any specs or pictures from alibaba, and this particular offer has a number of errors, for example, TN panel.
On the other hand there are a number of 39" 4k smart tvs in china with 3d and true 120hz and the chips and boards with these capabilities are easy to find on alibaba.
worst scenario i end up with a seiki clone ( not available in south america) and the seller loses a huge amount of money from the future purchases from my Paraguayan fellow.

A look at part numbers shows that this may indeed be a revised seiki:
SE39UY04
LY390UQS01

SE and LY are obvious references to brand
39 is size
Seiki is UY04
LYC is 0UQS01
 
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So the question that pops into my mind- how long before we're able to source a decent (better than what Seiki is using) 4k ~40" monitor that can accept a 120Hz dual-DP input at 4k, with G-Sync installed?
 
IdiotInCharge said:
So the question that pops into my mind- how long before we're able to source a decent (better than what Seiki is using) 4k ~40" monitor that can accept a 120Hz dual-DP input at 4k, with G-Sync installed?
Click to expand...

One thing at a time: ordering a sample, testing, getting back to supplier with a more objective list:
- your power board sucks, i want beefier power board>> this is by far the most important aspect of these TVs, IMNSHO- good power board=durable product.

-You are using transceiver and timing boards model number X, i want model number Y.

- Don't you count on 120Hz@4k so soon, unless you are willing to cover prototyping costs. There is no TCON capable of this yet, and i am yet to see tri-fire/quad-sli numbers, but based on SLI CF numbers leaked so far, neither 780ti nor 290x can do 60fps@4k in all games, which places 120hz out of reach.

-Gsync would cost a lot for any 4k display, even if 4k is the resolution that most benefits from gsync. I imagine NVIDIA will charge a hefty premium on the board and would not allow it be used in OEM branded displays. They learned their lesson after lightboost, now usable with AMD cards thanks to the [H]ard work of the gaming community. As of today, Gsync is the best hope for 4k gamers, but a low cost 4k display with gsync seems a very slim hope indeed. NVIDIA will probably go for the 32" high cost panel when they decide to allow gsync on 4k. It is all about margins and number of units sold.

-We have no TCON capable of 60hz 4k, so going Displayport is not much better than HDMI 1.4. Since we are talking about TV boards, expect HDMI 2.0 TV boards become available before displayport boards, and at a much reduced price point. Unless Apple decide to enter the gaming monitor market, i simply don't see displayport monitors reaching high production numbers, ever. If i can't source a DP board for my 4k TV, i can't buld a 4k Tv with displayport. it is as sad as that:(. The Koreans are way more suited to face the challenge of building high resolutions monitors with high refresh rates. No major brand has yet sold a 1440p+ display capable of more than 60hz. There are not many Pcs out there capable of more than 60fps@1440p+, so there is not profit potential to justify diverting resources from a big company towards it.

According to some rumors, innolux will ditch the 38.5" format for the 39.5", that is closer in size to 40" but has costs similar to 38.5", so i do not have the luxury to play the waiting game hoping that 60Hz 4k TCON surfaces, or someone leaks a blue print of a DP 4k TV board, or NVIDIA allows an OEM to build Gsync'ed TVs because i may lose the chance to use existing 38.5" panels and cases, more suited to my planned use as productivity 4k tv-monitors that double as 120hz 1080p gaming panels. :)
 
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any deeper info about that 300USD model?
and is it possible to replace HDMI input with board which have DP1.2 to gain 4k@40hz on that innolux panel?
 
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